NationStates

Communal concils wrote:1. Simplistic Moralism

2. Simplistic Moralism. You clearly don't know that the world is not that simply. Execution and punishment are not bad in of themselves. The purpose and consequence is the only true concern. If people were rape, then the rapist should be killed. If a terrorist bombed a mass gathering, then they should face harsh conditions. Anarchist are childish. They assume that things are bad for the sake of it.Anarchist only know to mock and criticize, and they offer nothing but fairy tales.

3. Still simplistic. If you suffered from economic exploitation, then it's natural for you to feel bad. In Medieval times, Feudalism was the major system of the time. Peasants did lot's of work, and they did not get good living conditions. Feudalism was a economic system that prevented generation of families from ranking up the classes. Some how, It's suddenly bad when they upraise. They are then rebelling against "God" and the old order. It's also suddenly bad to punish the leader and higher classes that remove prosperity for your people. If the new order of a revolution improves conditions and access to resources, then the people are liberated.


4. Strawmen. It's bad when the Bolsheviks remove the white movement, which was trying to squash their movement, but some how Rojava isn't doing the same with ISIS.

5. Anarchist like to rename everything. That's not a state " It a confederation of Municipalities", that's not a leader ", It's a guide".

Rojava is oppressive to ISIS, it's simple. Oppression: unjust or cruel exercise of authority or power - Merriam Webster dictionary
Rojava has military, and it has leadership. There are videos on YouTube of rojavan troops Torturing ISIS members, which isn't a problem a problem to me. Why don't you just watch it. Honestly, the torture is against the will of the soldiers being killed. Also, Oppression and self-defense don't contradict. There are nations that send dangerous criminals to remote prisons, where they are isolated in the name of public safety. Perhaps, some of these people are heros to anarchist, and I'm sure that anarchist want to abolish prisons(Which Rojava has not, which there are accounts of guards beating them).

6. So, You want them to be in a comfy cell room. With pillows, and free food and water. So pampering them is the solution, until there is justice. Even if they killed thousands, It's bad for them to face their own consequences. So Rapist shouldn't be punished for their crimes ?

7.
"the state is that human community that (successfully) claims the monopoly of the legitimate use of violence within a given territory."- Max Weber.

Zapistas were able to claim power through force(a Revolution, a violent one). They have control over what happens in their territory(which is Chipas), and they use force to maintain control( they harass drug dealers, and they ban smuggling of drugs. That's not so anarchist, but it's great). As for Rojava, they don't accept all opposition. I'm sure they make Islamist vanish in the night. So these are not anarchist territories.
as for the Third world anarchism, It seems like there is no true interest. I'm not denying the existence of anarchist in the third world, but they seem rare because of the reason of not being popular.

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:

Communal concils wrote:1. Simplistic Moralism

2. Simplistic Moralism. You clearly don't know that the world is not that simply. Execution and punishment are not bad in of themselves. The purpose and consequence is the only true concern. If people were rape, then the rapist should be killed. If a terrorist bombed a mass gathering, then they should face harsh conditions. Anarchist are childish. They assume that things are bad for the sake of it.Anarchist only know to mock and criticize, and they offer nothing but fairy tales.

3. Still simplistic. If you suffered from economic exploitation, then it's natural for you to feel bad. In Medieval times, Feudalism was the major system of the time. Peasants did lot's of work, and they did not get good living conditions. Feudalism was a economic system that prevented generation of families from ranking up the classes. Some how, It's suddenly bad when they upraise. They are then rebelling against "God" and the old order. It's also suddenly bad to punish the leader and higher classes that remove prosperity for your people. If the new order of a revolution improves conditions and access to resources, then the people are liberated.


4. Strawmen. It's bad when the Bolsheviks remove the white movement, which was trying to squash their movement, but some how Rojava isn't doing the same with ISIS.

5. Anarchist like to rename everything. That's not a state " It a confederation of Municipalities", that's not a leader ", It's a guide".

Rojava is oppressive to ISIS, it's simple. Oppression: unjust or cruel exercise of authority or power - Merriam Webster dictionary
Rojava has military, and it has leadership. There are videos on YouTube of rojavan troops Torturing ISIS members, which isn't a problem a problem to me. Why don't you just watch it. Honestly, the torture is against the will of the soldiers being killed. Also, Oppression and self-defense don't contradict. There are nations that send dangerous criminals to remote prisons, where they are isolated in the name of public safety. Perhaps, some of these people are heros to anarchist, and I'm sure that anarchist want to abolish prisons(Which Rojava has not, which there are accounts of guards beating them).

6. So, You want them to be in a comfy cell room. With pillows, and free food and water. So pampering them is the solution, until there is justice. Even if they killed thousands, It's bad for them to face their own consequences. So Rapist shouldn't be punished for their crimes ?

7.
"the state is that human community that (successfully) claims the monopoly of the legitimate use of violence within a given territory."- Max Weber.

Zapistas were able to claim power through force(a Revolution, a violent one). They have control over what happens in their territory(which is Chipas), and they use force to maintain control( they harass drug dealers, and they ban smuggling of drugs. That's not so anarchist, but it's great). As for Rojava, they don't accept all opposition. I'm sure they make Islamist vanish in the night. So these are not anarchist territories.
as for the Third world anarchism, It seems like there is no true interest. I'm not denying the existence of anarchist in the third world, but they seem rare because of the reason of not being popular.

I fail to see any issue with Rojava being “oppressive” to ISIL. Good. ISIL is an extremist shit terrorist group which has harmed far too many people. ISIL deserves, in full, what it gets. Good on Rojava if they’re trying to rid themselves of such a plague as ISIL.

Heloin wrote:

Communal concils wrote:

That is simply untrue. I am mostly talking to those that are ideologically zealous for rojava. I also wanted to point out ideological contradictions.

Communal concils wrote:

So Rojava doesn't have flaws. These are not little issues, they are ideological contradictions. These Ideological Contradictions show that Rojava isn't such the fairy land that many see it as. As for ISIS, I did support the anti-terrorist campaigns.

Bezkoshtovnya wrote:

Communal concils wrote:

that's an assumption .

Just as it must have been an assumption that they were saying Rojava is flawless.

Heloin wrote:

Communal concils wrote:
1. Well, If punishment of murders and rapist doesn't result in execution or other methods, then they learn nothing. Most people generally don't believe in this libertarian nonsense of accepting the killings of their love ones. The Brutality of certain individuals needs to be met with the smae force.

2. Well, it was supported by them. However, a large amount of the killings were embraced by a large amount of Kampucheans. As for Pol Pot, He continued pogroms . He tried to finish what Lol Non started. Lol Non was already doing it, and Pol Pot did not stop it. Also, I'm using the common definition of a genocide.


3. Well, I did not deny the famine. But, I believe that the Ukrainian Government and institutions has lied to western society on some details of such events(like how famines affected people across ethnic lines). Also, news Channels in western society have lied about international issues as much as any Russian channel(perhaps more).

You compared rapists and killers to the victims of the Holodomor and are now trying to say me calling you out on that is my support for letting serial killers into the homes of their victims families? Aren't the one saying other people are strawmaning you?

It genuinely shocks me that you are trying to create a false version of one of the most destructive genocides on the face of the planet.

Of all the reasons to deny a genocide, you not liking the current government of one of it's victims is probably among the worst reasons.

Communal concils wrote:

Heloin wrote:You compared rapists and killers to the victims of the Holodomor and are now trying to say me calling you out on that is my support for letting serial killers into the homes of their victims families? Aren't the one saying other people are strawmaning you?

It genuinely shocks me that you are trying to create a false version of one of the most destructive genocides on the face of the planet.

Of all the reasons to deny a genocide, you not liking the current government of one of it's victims is probably among the worst reasons.

1. I didn't equate victims to such an rapist or serial killers. I said that the ideal of executions and capital punishment are not bad in of themselves. To reject that means that Rapist and Serial killers wouldn't be treated they way the deserve to. In this world , bad behaviors lead to consequences connected to the negative cause. It's not a case of human nature, but the case of world conditions. I never said that you would allow it yourself. You are are the one with the strawmen of this issue.

2. "False" version. I am simply saying that such events were more complex than what many people think. It is of various factors, and people were not killed for the sake of being killed. Also, academics don't seem to have a correct number of killed. 100 thousand, 1 million, 15 million, 50 million, 100 million are only a fraction of numbers I've heard. I also don't like that out of all people that were affected in such a event, the media only seems to talk about Ukraine. Ukraine suffered the "Most". Honestly, This Holodomer is part of a chain of famine that happened before ,during and after the Russian Civil war. It was widespread, it affect the whole of Russian society. Russians suffered, Belorussians suffered, tartars suffered and Caucasians suffered.

3. Well, Ukrainian government use it as propaganda and excuse for it's foreign and domestic policies. Also, people pretend that the kulaks did nothing wrong. they pretend that there wasn't any hatred of them, until "scary mustache men" decided to remove them for the sake of being 'Evil".

Communal concils wrote:

Bezkoshtovnya wrote:Just as it must have been an assumption that they were saying Rojava is flawless.

It's more about glossing over flaws.

Communal concils wrote:

Bezkoshtovnya wrote:Just as it must have been an assumption that they were saying Rojava is flawless.

It's more about glossing over flaws.

Munkcestrian Republic wrote:I thought this was about Rojava, not Cambodia

I've read the first post but since the discussion is about something else now could someone tell me whats been going on in this thread

Highever wrote:

Communal concils wrote:

It's more about glossing over flaws.

Except he did the exact opposite of that. He said that it was "mostly alright" which acknowledges that there are indeed flaws to be found, but compared to the rest of the middle east it is relatively okay. So, again, you either utterly failed to read or you deliberately put words in his mouth.

Communal concils wrote:

Munkcestrian Republic wrote:I thought this was about Rojava, not Cambodia

I've read the first post but since the discussion is about something else now could someone tell me whats been going on in this thread

well,they are trying to focus on societies that were of my ideology. Though, I don't like kampuchea. In fact,I don't get why it is suddenly so important on the thread.

Munkcestrian Republic wrote:

Communal concils wrote:

well,they are trying to focus on societies that were of my ideology. Though, I don't like kampuchea. In fact,I don't get why it is suddenly so important on the thread.

Do you wear glasses?

Torrocca wrote:Critical? Yes.

Scathingly hateful of them to the point of entirely shitting on anything and everything they do - regardless of the goodness or badness of it - because they don't follow a very specific set of individually-held beliefs that dubiously count as "leftist", in order to shit on the vast majority of leftists who don't agree with that specific set of beliefs? No.

New haven america wrote:Libertarianism is a hypocritical ideology?

Why I never...!

Communal concils wrote:(Image)

Pasong Tirad wrote:

Communal concils wrote:(Image)

This image isn't even from Rojava - nor is it about Rojava Kurds. It's from a protest in France by Turkish Kurds demanding the release of Abdullah Öcalan. Do better, OP.

Pasong Tirad wrote:

Torrocca wrote:Critical? Yes.

Scathingly hateful of them to the point of entirely shitting on anything and everything they do - regardless of the goodness or badness of it - because they don't follow a very specific set of individually-held beliefs that dubiously count as "leftist", in order to shit on the vast majority of leftists who don't agree with that specific set of beliefs? No.

This. Rojava beat the shit out of ISIS and will oppose to the death the Sultan in Ankara. That alone, in my view, has earned Rojava its right to statehood or, at the very least, a greater level of autonomy from Assad, which will be possible if the much-discussed federalization of Syria continues.

Pasong Tirad wrote:

Communal concils wrote:(Image)

This image isn't even from Rojava - nor is it about Rojava Kurds. It's from a protest in France by Turkish Kurds demanding the release of Abdullah Öcalan. Do better, OP.

Communal concils wrote:

Pasong Tirad wrote:This image isn't even from Rojava - nor is it about Rojava Kurds. It's from a protest in France by Turkish Kurds demanding the release of Abdullah Öcalan. Do better, OP.

I know . That was to show that Rojava does have popularity in the west.

Highever wrote:

Communal concils wrote:

I know . That was to show that Rojava does have popularity in the west.

Okay....? And?

Communal concils wrote:

Pasong Tirad wrote:This. Rojava beat the shit out of ISIS and will oppose to the death the Sultan in Ankara. That alone, in my view, has earned Rojava its right to statehood or, at the very least, a greater level of autonomy from Assad, which will be possible if the much-discussed federalization of Syria continues.

Well, I would support the very ideal of federalization. Though, the kurds should not depend on the US. They might be able to come to a conclusion with Assad.

We just have to see until Idlib is retaken, and hopefully Rojava might reject Neocon imperialism. Though, I wouldn't be angry if unification was achieve with military conquest.

Communal concils wrote:

Pasong Tirad wrote:This image isn't even from Rojava - nor is it about Rojava Kurds. It's from a protest in France by Turkish Kurds demanding the release of Abdullah Öcalan. Do better, OP.

I know . That was to show that Rojava does have popularity in the west.

Pasong Tirad wrote:

Communal concils wrote:

Well, I would support the very ideal of federalization. Though, the kurds should not depend on the US. They might be able to come to a conclusion with Assad.

We just have to see until Idlib is retaken, and hopefully Rojava might reject Neocon imperialism. Though, I wouldn't be angry if unification was achieve with military conquest.

Smaller states having to compromise their ideals and seek help from larger, more militarily-capable states in order to retain their freedom and keep their people alive? The nerve! My pearls! Oh, heavens! I might faint right here!