NationStates

Aclion wrote:

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:BDS is not antisemitic for opposing occupations of Palistinian territory.

They are however antisemitic for cropdusting with antisemitic tropes in order to to advance their opposition.

so they are bad for telling the truth?

Aclion wrote:

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:BDS is not antisemitic for opposing occupations of Palistinian territory.

They are however antisemitic for cropdusting with antisemitic tropes in order to to advance their opposition.

How can they be anti-Semitic when they have Jews within the movement? There are some "Good Goyim and big banker" jokes, but it is used by the fringes of that movement.

Since BDS subtly opposes the Jewish people and not just Israel, that sounds pretty anti semitic to me

Dee Alleng wrote:

Aclion wrote:They are however antisemitic for cropdusting with antisemitic tropes in order to to advance their opposition.

so they are bad for telling the truth?

I will say that it is true that Lobbying for Zionism and Zionism being supported by capitalism is true. Today, a Jewish nationalist shuts up opposition but just using the word, They are manipulative and hostile to all opposition.

Brilliant. Apparently, criticizing the Apartheid-esque policy of colonizing Palestinian lands without their consent and their routine suppression of autonomy and racial equality somehow equals wanting all Jews to be massacred or that they "killed Christ". At this rate, even criticizing the American government or president abroad will get you labelled as an "Anti-American swine" and will send the CIA to assassinate you. But hey, neoliberals gotta work together, amirite?

Tornado Queendom wrote:

Jack Thomas Lang wrote:From Al Jazeera

So, the German parliament has condemned the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions movement as anti-semitic. I'm not aware that this will have any repercussion beyond symbolism, but nonetheless raises the question whether BDS is really anti-semitic as portrayed by the conservatives, social democrats, greens and free democrats. I'm ambivalent, I think that some of its language is too extreme and borders anti-semitic sentiment but I'm not convinced this was necessary. But what do you think of this turn of events?

Was the German Parliament right? What is anti-semitism, and does BDS actually qualify?

The only thing this condemnation will destroy is the German Parliament's chances of getting Merkel into the EU parliament, which have already been slimmed to the size of a straw. Also, it'll only give MORE reasons for authoritarians to blame the Jewish race. If you don't want their opinions to be supported, let them speak, and pray that their opinions get laughed at. Censoring Neo-Nazis will only lead to MORE Neo-Nazis in the long run.

No, censoring Neo-Nazis will not create more Neo-Nazis

Thermodolia wrote:

Tornado Queendom wrote:The only thing this condemnation will destroy is the German Parliament's chances of getting Merkel into the EU parliament, which have already been slimmed to the size of a straw. Also, it'll only give MORE reasons for authoritarians to blame the Jewish race. If you don't want their opinions to be supported, let them speak, and pray that their opinions get laughed at. Censoring Neo-Nazis will only lead to MORE Neo-Nazis in the long run.

No, censoring Neo-Nazis will not create more Neo-Nazis

Strongly disagree on this one. The fact that across the entire western world there's pushback against even speaking ill of Israel kinda fuels that whole Jewish conspiracy thing.

Czechoslovakia and Zakarpattia wrote:Brilliant. Apparently, criticizing the Apartheid-esque policy of colonizing Palestinian lands without their consent and their routine suppression of autonomy and racial equality somehow equals wanting all Jews to be massacred or that they "killed Christ". At this rate, even criticizing the American government or president abroad will get you labelled as an "Anti-American swine" and will send the CIA to assassinate you. But hey, neoliberals gotta work together, amirite?

The world stopped making sense, all thanks to people that support the Neo-Colonialist state of Israel.

Washington Resistance Army wrote:

Thermodolia wrote:No, censoring Neo-Nazis will not create more Neo-Nazis

Strongly disagree on this one. The fact that across the entire western world there's pushback against even speaking ill of Israel kinda fuels that whole Jewish conspiracy thing.

Saying you can’t speak ill of Israel isn’t censoring Neo-Nazis though. It’s just dumb.

Thermodolia wrote:

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Strongly disagree on this one. The fact that across the entire western world there's pushback against even speaking ill of Israel kinda fuels that whole Jewish conspiracy thing.

Saying you can’t speak ill of Israel isn’t censoring Neo-Nazis though. It’s just dumb.

It's censoring not only neo-Nazis but it's censoring literally everyone critical of Israel or Jews. It becomes quite a bit easier to start thinking anti-Semitic tropes might be true when talking bad about AIPAC gets you destroyed by both sides of the aisle or when it becomes illegal to boycott a regime you disagree with simply because it's Jewish etc etc.

United Massachusetts wrote:Yes, BDS is anti-Semitic in that it denies that Jews have the right to self-determination. That's anti-Semitism, per the Working Definition that the European Council and State Department agree on.

https://european-forum-on-antisemitism. ... sh-english

That's news to a whole lot of Jewish people. https://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/39-Je ... BDS-562843

Yes, there are anti-Semites in the BDS movement. There are also anti-Semites who support the State of Israel (chiefly American Christians seeking the End of Days). Boycotting as a strategy to pressure a nasty government into easing up on its oppression is something that has worked in the past and is well accepted as a reasonable tactic for any group of people against any organization - unless, of course, that organization is the State of Israel. THEN it magically becomes anti-Semitic.

I'm just gonna throw this out there:
Condemnation by a legislature =/= being made illegal/censorship.
Can I also remind everyone that even if Germany decides to censor BDS, they already censor people who are anti-Islamic, so at least they're trying to be consistent with their BS.

Washington Resistance Army wrote:

Thermodolia wrote:Saying you can’t speak ill of Israel isn’t censoring Neo-Nazis though. It’s just dumb.

It's censoring not only neo-Nazis but it's censoring literally everyone critical of Israel or Jews. It becomes quite a bit easier to start thinking anti-Semitic tropes might be true when talking bad about AIPAC gets you destroyed by both sides of the aisle or when it becomes illegal to boycott a regime you disagree with etc etc.

Not to mention that laws designed with the purpose of banning supporting BDS through donations or public speech are a direct violation of the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, which clearly states:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
And government-sanctioned prosecution of anyone that dares criticizing the Netanyahu regime in Israel is the textbook definition of a "abridgement of speech", hence it is unconstitutional.

Washington Resistance Army wrote:

Thermodolia wrote:Saying you can’t speak ill of Israel isn’t censoring Neo-Nazis though. It’s just dumb.

It's censoring not only neo-Nazis but it's censoring literally everyone critical of Israel or Jews. It becomes quite a bit easier to start thinking anti-Semitic tropes might be true when talking bad about AIPAC gets you destroyed by both sides of the aisle or when it becomes illegal to boycott a regime you disagree with simply because it's Jewish etc etc.

I know. Hence the “it’s just dumb” comment. Censorship of anything Israel is bad.

But in general censorship of neo-Nazis doesn’t make more neo-Nazis. Which was the point I was making

Czechoslovakia and Zakarpattia wrote:

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
It's censoring not only neo-Nazis but it's censoring literally everyone critical of Israel or Jews. It becomes quite a bit easier to start thinking anti-Semitic tropes might be true when talking bad about AIPAC gets you destroyed by both sides of the aisle or when it becomes illegal to boycott a regime you disagree with etc etc.

Not to mention that laws designed with the purpose of banning supporting BDS through donations or public speech are a direct violation of the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, which clearly states:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
And government-sanctioned prosecution of anyone that dares criticizing the Netanyahu regime in Israel is the textbook definition of a "abridgement of speech", hence it is unconstitutional.

Interestingly the US constitution doesn’t apply to Germany

Thermodolia wrote:

Czechoslovakia and Zakarpattia wrote:Not to mention that laws designed with the purpose of banning supporting BDS through donations or public speech are a direct violation of the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, which clearly states:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
And government-sanctioned prosecution of anyone that dares criticizing the Netanyahu regime in Israel is the textbook definition of a "abridgement of speech", hence it is unconstitutional.

Interestingly the US constitution doesn’t apply to Germany

Every country in the world belongs to America.

Aureumterra wrote:Since BDS subtly opposes the Jewish people and not just Israel, that sounds pretty anti semitic to me

it's not even that subtle

Thermodolia wrote:

Czechoslovakia and Zakarpattia wrote:Not to mention that laws designed with the purpose of banning supporting BDS through donations or public speech are a direct violation of the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, which clearly states:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
And government-sanctioned prosecution of anyone that dares criticizing the Netanyahu regime in Israel is the textbook definition of a "abridgement of speech", hence it is unconstitutional.

Interestingly the US constitution doesn’t apply to Germany

I was talking about the Anti-BDS laws passed in America by the Congress as an example of how much BDS is persecuted in the Western World based on bogus allegations of "antisemitism".

Corindia wrote:

Aureumterra wrote:Since BDS subtly opposes the Jewish people and not just Israel, that sounds pretty anti semitic to me

it's not even that subtle

Interesting. Mind linking to a specific passage within the BDS' manifesto that specifically fits this definition? Here it goes:
"hostility to or prejudice against Jews."
Because by your misguided logic, opposing the policies of the Government of Pakistan is somehow wanting to kill all muslims because said country is majority Islamic and was created originally as a state for Muslims.

Thermodolia wrote:

Czechoslovakia and Zakarpattia wrote:Not to mention that laws designed with the purpose of banning supporting BDS through donations or public speech are a direct violation of the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, which clearly states:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
And government-sanctioned prosecution of anyone that dares criticizing the Netanyahu regime in Israel is the textbook definition of a "abridgement of speech", hence it is unconstitutional.

Interestingly the US constitution doesn’t apply to Germany

Section 1 of Article 5 of the Grundgesetz (Basic law) of Germany states:

"(1) Every person shall have the right freely to express and disseminate his opinions in speech, writing and pictures, and to inform himself without hindrance from generally accessible sources. Freedom of the press and freedom of reporting by means of broadcasts and films shall be guaranteed. There shall be no censorship."

Czechoslovakia and Zakarpattia wrote:

Corindia wrote:it's not even that subtle

Interesting. Mind linking to a specific passage within the BDS' manifesto that specifically fits this definition? Here it goes:
"hostility to or prejudice against Jews."
Because by your misguided logic, opposing the policies of the Government of Pakistan is somehow wanting to kill all muslims because said country is majority Islamic and was created originally as a state for Muslims.

There are some within the BDS movement who are anti-Semitic, however there are also anti-Semites who support Israel. And last time I checked both groups are small but loud

Czechoslovakia and Zakarpattia wrote:

Thermodolia wrote:Interestingly the US constitution doesn’t apply to Germany

Section 1 of Article 5 of the Grundgesetz (Basic law) of Germany states:

"(1) Every person shall have the right freely to express and disseminate his opinions in speech, writing and pictures, and to inform himself without hindrance from generally accessible sources. Freedom of the press and freedom of reporting by means of broadcasts and films shall be guaranteed. There shall be no censorship."

Dude it was a joke. Not the best one but one nonetheless.

Thermodolia wrote:

Czechoslovakia and Zakarpattia wrote:Interesting. Mind linking to a specific passage within the BDS' manifesto that specifically fits this definition? Here it goes:
"hostility to or prejudice against Jews."
Because by your misguided logic, opposing the policies of the Government of Pakistan is somehow wanting to kill all muslims because said country is majority Islamic and was created originally as a state for Muslims.

There are some within the BDS movement who are anti-Semitic, however there are also anti-Semites who support Israel. And last time I checked both groups are small but loud

The overall BDS movement though is not built or founded upon antisemitism, and it explicitly states it wants complete equality between Jews and Arabs alike. See here:
The BDS movement stands for freedom, justice and equality.

"Anchored in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the BDS movement, led by the Palestinian BDS National Committee, is inclusive and categorically opposes as a matter of principle all forms of racism, including Islamophobia and anti-semitism.

BDS campaigns target the Israeli state because of its responsibility for serious violations of international law and the companies and institutions that participate in and are complicit in these Israeli violations. The BDS movement does not boycott or campaign against any individual or group simply because they are Israeli.

The world is growing increasingly weary of Israel's attempts to conflate criticism of its violations of international law with anti-Semitism and to conflate Zionism with Judaism. Israel is a state, not a person. Everyone has the right to criticize the unjust actions of a state.

Many Jewish students, academics, intellectuals, LGBTQ advocates and others as well as and a growing number of Jewish-Israelis support and advocate for BDS.

As the US organisation Jewish Voice for Peace has explained, Israel claims to be acting in the name of all Jewish people but a rapidly increasing number of Jewish people of conscience feel compelled to make sure the world knows that many Jews are opposed to Israel's actions."
Regarding their goals:
"The BDS movement aims to pressure Israel to respect international law by:

1. Ending its occupation and colonization of all Arab lands and dismantling the Wall
International law recognises the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, Gaza and the Syrian Golan Heights as occupied by Israel.

2. Recognizing the fundamental rights of the Arab-Palestinian citizens of Israel to full equality.

3. Respecting, protecting and promoting the rights of Palestinian refugees to return to their homes and properties as stipulated in UN resolution 194.

These are three basic rights without which the Palestinian people cannot exercise its inalienable right to self-determination.

The BDS movement does not advocate for a particular solution to the conflict and does not call for either a “one state solution” or a “two state solution”. Instead, BDS focuses on the realization of basic rights and the implementation of international law."

First American Empire wrote:

Communal concils wrote:

anarchism has never really existed. A state is simply a organization that has a monopoly over an area, and You can't force that to change.

I'm not an anarchist. I'm a world-federalist.

Creating a world state is a mere pipe dream.

Liberal Thermidorian Reaction wrote:

First American Empire wrote:
I'm not an anarchist. I'm a world-federalist.

Creating a world state is a mere pipe dream.

Creating a forced state that combines people who have nothing in common is failing throughout the world already, a world state is the worst idea anyone’s ever probably had