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Right-Wing Discussion Thread XVI: Making Things Right Again

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Do you consider nationalism and patriotism synoymous?

Yes- I am a nationalist and a patriot
115
26%
No- I am a nationalist and a patriot
52
12%
No- I am a nationalist, not a patriot
43
10%
No- I am a patriot, not a nationalist
147
33%
Yes- I am neither a nationalist nor a patriot
18
4%
No- I am neither a nationalist nor a patriot
68
15%
 
Total votes : 443

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Esheaun Stroakuss
Diplomat
 
Posts: 761
Founded: May 23, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Esheaun Stroakuss » Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:52 am

Salus Maior wrote:You know, the use of gas in warfare was probably one of humanity's lowest lows imo.


And that's saying a lot.
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Duvniask
Minister
 
Posts: 3500
Founded: Aug 30, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Duvniask » Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:46 am

Salus Maior wrote:You know, the use of gas in warfare was probably one of humanity's lowest lows imo.

Chemical weapons in general.
Anime America was a mistake.

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Fahran
Senator
 
Posts: 4843
Founded: Nov 13, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Fahran » Mon Jul 22, 2019 6:30 am

Totally Not OEP wrote:Just don't be making thirsty posts on Insta like 90% of White girls this Summer.

So no pictures sitting on a cooler? Lame. :p
Literally the worst.

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Hanafuridake
Minister
 
Posts: 3093
Founded: Sep 09, 2018
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Hanafuridake » Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:28 pm

ElCKuT wrote:To me, Islamic culture means more than other cultures.


Just because you like it more doesn't mean that Islamic culture is the only one preserving. All of those cultures have produced monumental works that have contributed to the world's heritage, where would we be without works like Faust and the Mahabharata? Or without Rome's expansion throughout Western Europe (helping create the language you're speaking right now).
ElCKuT wrote:True but like I said, Al-Islam has rules for just about every single aspect of our lives that it might as well be its own culture.


But it's not. For however much you throw around Arab catchphrases, you don't actually know anything about different Muslim countries, and you'd probably be beaten up if you went to them. Ironically like Neo Nazis when they visit European countries and start talking about white unity.
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ElCKuT
Envoy
 
Posts: 320
Founded: Jul 22, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby ElCKuT » Mon Jul 22, 2019 3:17 pm

Hanafuridake wrote:Just because you like it more doesn't mean that Islamic culture is the only one preserving. All of those cultures have produced monumental works that have contributed to the world's heritage, where would we be without works like Faust and the Mahabharata? Or without Rome's expansion throughout Western Europe (helping create the language you're speaking right now).

Point made but tbf it was my opinion (also English isn't that great of a language, there's better languages out there).
Hanafuridake wrote:But it's not.

Yes it is.
Hanafuridake wrote:For however much you throw around Arab catchphrases you don't actually know anything about different Muslim countries

I never claimed to.
Hanafuridake wrote:and you'd probably be beaten up if you went to them.

Says who? This sounds like a stereotype.
Hanafuridake wrote:Ironically like Neo Nazis when they visit European countries and start talking about white unity.

What?
Anybody who says that I support non-Islamic slavery, persecution of non-Muslims, rape, domestic violence, terrorism, pedophilia, killing homosexuals, hating Jews, etc is lying.

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Napkizemlja
Diplomat
 
Posts: 571
Founded: Apr 13, 2019
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Napkizemlja » Mon Jul 22, 2019 3:36 pm

Hanafuridake wrote:
ElCKuT wrote:To me, Islamic culture means more than other cultures.


Just because you like it more doesn't mean that Islamic culture is the only one preserving. All of those cultures have produced monumental works that have contributed to the world's heritage, where would we be without works like Faust and the Mahabharata? Or without Rome's expansion throughout Western Europe (helping create the language you're speaking right now).
ElCKuT wrote:True but like I said, Al-Islam has rules for just about every single aspect of our lives that it might as well be its own culture.


But it's not. For however much you throw around Arab catchphrases, you don't actually know anything about different Muslim countries, and you'd probably be beaten up if you went to them. Ironically like Neo Nazis when they visit European countries and start talking about white unity.

This isn't mention how sharia is interpreted or the various other forms of Islam that have taken root. Nizaris and their culture are not even remotely close to that of Twelvers let alone any of the really strict and literal Sunni sects. Or for example Tunisia which recently legalized interfaith marriages between Muslim women and non-Muslim men, something that in a lot of other countries wouldn't be recognized or even considered illegal.
Orthodox Christian and aspiring MD. Communitarian. Anti-usury. Ralph Fiennes is Serbian. English, Scottish, Welsh and Manx.

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Nova Cyberia
Senator
 
Posts: 4030
Founded: May 06, 2019
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Nova Cyberia » Mon Jul 22, 2019 3:39 pm

Esheaun Stroakuss wrote:
Salus Maior wrote:You know, the use of gas in warfare was probably one of humanity's lowest lows imo.


And that's saying a lot.

Funny, the Germans thought shotguns were worse lmao
Yes, yes, I'm racist and fascist because I disagree with you. Can we skip that part? I've heard it a million times before and I guarantee it won't be any different when you do it.
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ElCKuT
Envoy
 
Posts: 320
Founded: Jul 22, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby ElCKuT » Mon Jul 22, 2019 3:42 pm

Napkizemlja wrote:
Hanafuridake wrote:
Just because you like it more doesn't mean that Islamic culture is the only one preserving. All of those cultures have produced monumental works that have contributed to the world's heritage, where would we be without works like Faust and the Mahabharata? Or without Rome's expansion throughout Western Europe (helping create the language you're speaking right now).


But it's not. For however much you throw around Arab catchphrases, you don't actually know anything about different Muslim countries, and you'd probably be beaten up if you went to them. Ironically like Neo Nazis when they visit European countries and start talking about white unity.

This isn't mention how sharia is interpreted or the various other forms of Islam that have taken root. Nizaris and their culture are not even remotely close to that of Twelvers let alone any of the really strict and literal Sunni sects. Or for example Tunisia which recently legalized interfaith marriages between Muslim women and non-Muslim men, something that in a lot of other countries wouldn't be recognized or even considered illegal.

Yes, a lot of the Ummah is misguided and we need help.
Anybody who says that I support non-Islamic slavery, persecution of non-Muslims, rape, domestic violence, terrorism, pedophilia, killing homosexuals, hating Jews, etc is lying.

User avatar
Washington Resistance Army
Post Czar
 
Posts: 41229
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Mon Jul 22, 2019 3:47 pm

Nova Cyberia wrote:
Esheaun Stroakuss wrote:
And that's saying a lot.

Funny, the Germans thought shotguns were worse lmao


Trench shotguns were pretty hardcore tbh

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Diopolis
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12669
Founded: May 15, 2012
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Diopolis » Mon Jul 22, 2019 3:47 pm

TBH there's not really a self-consistent way to condemn the bombing of hiroshima but not dresden. You can condemn both, though.
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Nova Cyberia
Senator
 
Posts: 4030
Founded: May 06, 2019
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Nova Cyberia » Mon Jul 22, 2019 3:49 pm

Diopolis wrote:TBH there's not really a self-consistent way to condemn the bombing of hiroshima but not dresden. You can condemn both, though.

Hiroshima and Dresden were both justifiable targets, tbh.
Yes, yes, I'm racist and fascist because I disagree with you. Can we skip that part? I've heard it a million times before and I guarantee it won't be any different when you do it.
##############
American Nationalist
Third Positionist Gang

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ElCKuT
Envoy
 
Posts: 320
Founded: Jul 22, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby ElCKuT » Mon Jul 22, 2019 3:53 pm

Diopolis wrote:TBH there's not really a self-consistent way to condemn the bombing of hiroshima but not dresden. You can condemn both, though.

Bombing civilians is wrong, period. There's no good, moral way of justifying that.
Anybody who says that I support non-Islamic slavery, persecution of non-Muslims, rape, domestic violence, terrorism, pedophilia, killing homosexuals, hating Jews, etc is lying.

User avatar
Bear Stearns
Minister
 
Posts: 3395
Founded: Dec 02, 2018
Anarchy

Postby Bear Stearns » Mon Jul 22, 2019 3:56 pm

ElCKuT wrote:
Diopolis wrote:TBH there's not really a self-consistent way to condemn the bombing of hiroshima but not dresden. You can condemn both, though.

Bombing civilians is wrong, period. There's no good, moral way of justifying that.



Yeah, the Allied bombings of civilians during World War II were war crimes, plain and simple.
The Bear Stearns Companies, Inc. is a New York-based global investment bank, securities trading and brokerage firm. Its main business areas are capital markets, investment banking, wealth management and global clearing services. Bear Stearns was founded as an equity trading house on May Day 1923 by Joseph Ainslie Bear, Robert B. Stearns and Harold C. Mayer with $500,000 in capital.
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Diopolis
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12669
Founded: May 15, 2012
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Diopolis » Mon Jul 22, 2019 3:57 pm

ElCKuT wrote:
Diopolis wrote:TBH there's not really a self-consistent way to condemn the bombing of hiroshima but not dresden. You can condemn both, though.

Bombing civilians is wrong, period. There's no good, moral way of justifying that.

Welcome back Amin.
I don't disagree with you. I am pointing out that if you're for bombing dresden, you can't be against bombing hiroshima. They were both war crimes, but let's not pretend hiroshima and nagasaki were war crimes far and above the rape of budapest, firebombings of tokyo and dresden, etc, etc.
Trad-Catholic, hispanophile Texan distributist and paleoconservative.
Economic left -3.88, authoritarian 6.15
Thoughts
Abortion is not healthcare.
St Generalissimo Francisco Franco, pray for us!

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ElCKuT
Envoy
 
Posts: 320
Founded: Jul 22, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby ElCKuT » Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:02 pm

Diopolis wrote:
ElCKuT wrote:Bombing civilians is wrong, period. There's no good, moral way of justifying that.

Welcome back Amin.

Thank you
Diopolis wrote:I don't disagree with you. I am pointing out that if you're for bombing dresden, you can't be against bombing hiroshima. They were both war crimes, but let's not pretend hiroshima and nagasaki were war crimes far and above the rape of budapest, firebombings of tokyo and dresden, etc, etc.

Agreed
Anybody who says that I support non-Islamic slavery, persecution of non-Muslims, rape, domestic violence, terrorism, pedophilia, killing homosexuals, hating Jews, etc is lying.

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Bear Stearns
Minister
 
Posts: 3395
Founded: Dec 02, 2018
Anarchy

Postby Bear Stearns » Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:09 pm

Diopolis wrote:
ElCKuT wrote:Bombing civilians is wrong, period. There's no good, moral way of justifying that.

Welcome back Amin.
I don't disagree with you. I am pointing out that if you're for bombing dresden, you can't be against bombing hiroshima. They were both war crimes, but let's not pretend hiroshima and nagasaki were war crimes far and above the rape of budapest, firebombings of tokyo and dresden, etc, etc.


The Soviet war crimes alone are basically on par with the Axis. British and American war crimes are up there with your typical imperialist tomfoolery.
Last edited by Bear Stearns on Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
The Bear Stearns Companies, Inc. is a New York-based global investment bank, securities trading and brokerage firm. Its main business areas are capital markets, investment banking, wealth management and global clearing services. Bear Stearns was founded as an equity trading house on May Day 1923 by Joseph Ainslie Bear, Robert B. Stearns and Harold C. Mayer with $500,000 in capital.
383 Madison Ave,
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Diopolis
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12669
Founded: May 15, 2012
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Diopolis » Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:13 pm

Bear Stearns wrote:
Diopolis wrote:Welcome back Amin.
I don't disagree with you. I am pointing out that if you're for bombing dresden, you can't be against bombing hiroshima. They were both war crimes, but let's not pretend hiroshima and nagasaki were war crimes far and above the rape of budapest, firebombings of tokyo and dresden, etc, etc.


The Soviet war crimes alone are basically on par with the Axis. British and American war crimes are up there with your typical imperialist tomfoolery.

Pretty much. Should've just stayed home in the first place.
Trad-Catholic, hispanophile Texan distributist and paleoconservative.
Economic left -3.88, authoritarian 6.15
Thoughts
Abortion is not healthcare.
St Generalissimo Francisco Franco, pray for us!

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ElCKuT
Envoy
 
Posts: 320
Founded: Jul 22, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby ElCKuT » Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:14 pm

Diopolis wrote:
Bear Stearns wrote:
The Soviet war crimes alone are basically on par with the Axis. British and American war crimes are up there with your typical imperialist tomfoolery.

Pretty much. Should've just stayed home in the first place.

Oooooo idk about that one, considering the Holocaust was going on.
Anybody who says that I support non-Islamic slavery, persecution of non-Muslims, rape, domestic violence, terrorism, pedophilia, killing homosexuals, hating Jews, etc is lying.

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Bear Stearns
Minister
 
Posts: 3395
Founded: Dec 02, 2018
Anarchy

Postby Bear Stearns » Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:15 pm

Diopolis wrote:
Bear Stearns wrote:
The Soviet war crimes alone are basically on par with the Axis. British and American war crimes are up there with your typical imperialist tomfoolery.

Pretty much. Should've just stayed home in the first place.


Most Americans leaned that way until Pearl Harbor, and even then, most people just wanted to fight solely against Japan. Roosevelt actually had to run a pretty hard propaganda machine to drum up support going to war against Germany.

We could have literally ignored Germany's declaration of war and nothing would have happened to us.
The Bear Stearns Companies, Inc. is a New York-based global investment bank, securities trading and brokerage firm. Its main business areas are capital markets, investment banking, wealth management and global clearing services. Bear Stearns was founded as an equity trading house on May Day 1923 by Joseph Ainslie Bear, Robert B. Stearns and Harold C. Mayer with $500,000 in capital.
383 Madison Ave,
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Novus America
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25418
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:16 pm

Bear Stearns wrote:
Diopolis wrote:Welcome back Amin.
I don't disagree with you. I am pointing out that if you're for bombing dresden, you can't be against bombing hiroshima. They were both war crimes, but let's not pretend hiroshima and nagasaki were war crimes far and above the rape of budapest, firebombings of tokyo and dresden, etc, etc.


The Soviet war crimes alone are basically on par with the Axis. British and American war crimes are up there with your typical imperialist tomfoolery.


WWII was not imperialist on the part of the US (though the Soviets were really bad TBH).
Although international law was not as well developed.
The real question becomes is tha advantage gained by the attack greater than the harm caused?

And in the case of the nuclear strikes on Japan it was. Continuing the war would have killed far more.
The problem was Japan just refused to give up long after they were beaten. If Japan had surrendered after Leyte Gulf, or any time before the bombing they would not have happened,
The problem is many in the Japanese military and government preferred killing everyone in Japan over surrender.
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Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

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Novus America
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25418
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:19 pm

Diopolis wrote:
Bear Stearns wrote:
The Soviet war crimes alone are basically on par with the Axis. British and American war crimes are up there with your typical imperialist tomfoolery.

Pretty much. Should've just stayed home in the first place.


We still had to fight Japan, even if we ignored Europe. And how many would have died if we had?
Also you need to read Hitler’s second book. He made it clear that after winning in Europe he sought an epic war to the death against the US.
He was totally insane and not going to stop.

Our involvement in WWII was 100% justified.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

User avatar
Bear Stearns
Minister
 
Posts: 3395
Founded: Dec 02, 2018
Anarchy

Postby Bear Stearns » Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:19 pm

Novus America wrote:
Bear Stearns wrote:
The Soviet war crimes alone are basically on par with the Axis. British and American war crimes are up there with your typical imperialist tomfoolery.


WWII was not imperialist on the part of the US (though the Soviets were really bad TBH).


Tbh, for the Allies, the Pacific Theater wasn't really all that different from the colonial wars of the past. It just looked like a righteous crusade for freedom because Japan was trying to be Mongol Empire 2.0.

Although international law was not as well developed.
The real question becomes is tha advantage gained by the attack greater than the harm caused?

Novus America wrote:
Bear Stearns wrote:And in the case of the nuclear strikes on Japan it was. Continuing the war would have killed far more.
The problem was Japan just refused to give up long after they were beaten. If Japan had surrendered after Leyte Gulf, or any time before the bombing they would not have happened,
The problem is many in the Japanese military and government preferred killing everyone in Japan over surrender.


I don't deny the reasoning behind the atomic bombings, but that doesn't mean I think they were right. Perhaps necessary but also heinous as well.
The Bear Stearns Companies, Inc. is a New York-based global investment bank, securities trading and brokerage firm. Its main business areas are capital markets, investment banking, wealth management and global clearing services. Bear Stearns was founded as an equity trading house on May Day 1923 by Joseph Ainslie Bear, Robert B. Stearns and Harold C. Mayer with $500,000 in capital.
383 Madison Ave,
New York, NY 10017
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Hanafuridake
Minister
 
Posts: 3093
Founded: Sep 09, 2018
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Hanafuridake » Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:20 pm

In regard to economics, I'm partial to some form of corporatism which is grassroots and centered around localities, instead of the totalitarian centralized system which the Fascists proposed. There definitely needs to be a redistribution of land to poor & homeless people, I'm starting to think urban life was a major mistake.
Time traveling Heian princess trapped in the 21st century

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Bear Stearns
Minister
 
Posts: 3395
Founded: Dec 02, 2018
Anarchy

Postby Bear Stearns » Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:21 pm

Novus America wrote:
Diopolis wrote:Pretty much. Should've just stayed home in the first place.


We still had to fight Japan, even if we ignored Europe. And how many would have died if we had?


A lot, but now our problem.

Novus America wrote:Also you need to read Hitler’s second book. He made it clear that after winning in Europe he sought an epic war to the death against the US.
He was totally insane and not going to stop.


Hitler believed a lot of stupid things that were never going to happen, like the idea that he could win the war. If managed to eek out some sort of armistice in Europe the US would still be untouchable. If invading the US was going to be a logistical nightmare for the USSR in the Cold War, imagine how much worse it'd be for Germany.
The Bear Stearns Companies, Inc. is a New York-based global investment bank, securities trading and brokerage firm. Its main business areas are capital markets, investment banking, wealth management and global clearing services. Bear Stearns was founded as an equity trading house on May Day 1923 by Joseph Ainslie Bear, Robert B. Stearns and Harold C. Mayer with $500,000 in capital.
383 Madison Ave,
New York, NY 10017
Vince Vaughn

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Diopolis
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12669
Founded: May 15, 2012
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Diopolis » Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:21 pm

Bear Stearns wrote:
Diopolis wrote:Pretty much. Should've just stayed home in the first place.


Most Americans leaned that way until Pearl Harbor, and even then, most people just wanted to fight solely against Japan. Roosevelt actually had to run a pretty hard propaganda machine to drum up support going to war against Germany.

We could have literally ignored Germany's declaration of war and nothing would have happened to us.

Shouldn't have started with sanctions on Japan and lend lease, either. America should've stayed home, making a killing selling war material and raw material at inflated prices.
Trad-Catholic, hispanophile Texan distributist and paleoconservative.
Economic left -3.88, authoritarian 6.15
Thoughts
Abortion is not healthcare.
St Generalissimo Francisco Franco, pray for us!

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