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Right-Wing Discussion Thread XVI: Making Things Right Again

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Do you consider nationalism and patriotism synoymous?

Yes- I am a nationalist and a patriot
115
26%
No- I am a nationalist and a patriot
52
12%
No- I am a nationalist, not a patriot
43
10%
No- I am a patriot, not a nationalist
147
33%
Yes- I am neither a nationalist nor a patriot
18
4%
No- I am neither a nationalist nor a patriot
68
15%
 
Total votes : 443

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Jolthig
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Jolthig » Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:42 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Hanafuridake wrote:
Physical books are a waste anymore considering the rise in digital copies, tbh.

*hides brand new paperback copy of the Lotus Sutra*


Man, there's something about digital books that just doesn't do it for me. I always lose interest in them and find it much harder to finish them compared to an actual physical book.

Plus a physical book is right in front of my face too
Ahmadi Muslim • Khaddam of Ahmadiyya • debater • defender of Islam & Ahmadiyya from its critics • theistic evolutionist • Star Wars fan • rock and metal fan • Pragmatic on politics
Bernie Sanders 2020

Grenartia wrote:Then we Marshall Plan it.

Kowani wrote:
Jolthig wrote:Lol why

“Und Mirza”

:lol2:

Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:Isn't that what NSG is for though to a degree?

YOU’RE WRONG.

Allow me to explain using several fallacies, veiled insults, and insinuations that you’re ugly and dumb.

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Hanafuridake
Minister
 
Posts: 2997
Founded: Sep 09, 2018
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Hanafuridake » Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:44 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Hanafuridake wrote:
Physical books are a waste anymore considering the rise in digital copies, tbh.

*hides brand new paperback copy of the Lotus Sutra*


Man, there's something about digital books that just doesn't do it for me. I always lose interest in them and find it much harder to finish them compared to an actual physical book.


Yeah I know where you're coming from. There's something which can't compare to holding a book in your hands and reading it. My own house had a bug infection for the longest time, which pretty much ruined a lot of my books and made me have to come up with ways to get around the issue (like containers). There's only a few I have now which are in good condition.
Time traveling Heian princess trapped in the 21st century

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Jolthig
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Posts: 14694
Founded: Aug 31, 2010
Democratic Socialists

Postby Jolthig » Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:47 pm

Hanafuridake wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Man, there's something about digital books that just doesn't do it for me. I always lose interest in them and find it much harder to finish them compared to an actual physical book.


Yeah I know where you're coming from. There's something which can't compare to holding a book in your hands and reading it. My own house had a bug infection for the longest time, which pretty much ruined a lot of my books and made me have to come up with ways to get around the issue (like containers). There's only a few I have now which are in good condition.

RIP :'(
Ahmadi Muslim • Khaddam of Ahmadiyya • debater • defender of Islam & Ahmadiyya from its critics • theistic evolutionist • Star Wars fan • rock and metal fan • Pragmatic on politics
Bernie Sanders 2020

Grenartia wrote:Then we Marshall Plan it.

Kowani wrote:
Jolthig wrote:Lol why

“Und Mirza”

:lol2:

Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:Isn't that what NSG is for though to a degree?

YOU’RE WRONG.

Allow me to explain using several fallacies, veiled insults, and insinuations that you’re ugly and dumb.

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Cappuccina
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Posts: 1516
Founded: Jun 05, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Cappuccina » Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:54 pm

Hanafuridake wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Man, there's something about digital books that just doesn't do it for me. I always lose interest in them and find it much harder to finish them compared to an actual physical book.


Yeah I know where you're coming from. There's something which can't compare to holding a book in your hands and reading it. My own house had a bug infection for the longest time, which pretty much ruined a lot of my books and made me have to come up with ways to get around the issue (like containers). There's only a few I have now which are in good condition.

Damned bugs ruining literature! >:(
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Kowani
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Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Thu Jul 18, 2019 2:12 pm

Cappuccina wrote:
Hanafuridake wrote:
Yeah I know where you're coming from. There's something which can't compare to holding a book in your hands and reading it. My own house had a bug infection for the longest time, which pretty much ruined a lot of my books and made me have to come up with ways to get around the issue (like containers). There's only a few I have now which are in good condition.

Damned bugs ruining literature! >:(

What do you have against Kafka?
Narcissistic (Hedonistic) Nihilist. Yes, I am edgy. I know.
Dorgival R. Seč of the NS Parliament!
Atheist and still proud of it.
Post-Capitalist, Post-Nationalist.
Rights are functionally just privileges society has deemed important.
Prydania wrote:
As a Canadian? I find Americans and their deep, deep distrust of the government to be fundamentally, critically, laughably flawed. And I say this as someone who is, all and all, quite comfortable and happy in his new life in the US. The humidity's a bit much, but yeah. I like here. Still? I find some aspects of your country completely absurd. The distrust of anything remotely resembling authority is one. The gun problem that stems from that is another.

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Turbofolkia
Envoy
 
Posts: 292
Founded: May 05, 2019
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Turbofolkia » Thu Jul 18, 2019 2:19 pm

Kowani wrote:
Jolthig wrote:Yeah. That won't work in this globalized world.


Interesting

Most major romance languages have some government agency that does much the same, actually. Mind you, they’re all elitist.

Croatian has one as well, which has led to the development of words which sound absolutely ridiculous like zrakomlat (air hitter) for helicopter, zrakoplov (air sailer) for aeroplane and samokres (self firing) for pistol.
Last edited by Turbofolkia on Thu Jul 18, 2019 2:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Novus America
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Posts: 25026
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Thu Jul 18, 2019 2:58 pm

Turbofolkia wrote:
Kowani wrote:Most major romance languages have some government agency that does much the same, actually. Mind you, they’re all elitist.

Croatian has one as well, which has led to the development of words which sound absolutely ridiculous like zrakomlat (air hitter) for helicopter, zrakoplov (air sailer) for aeroplane and samokres (self firing) for pistol.


One great thing about English is it has none. Our closest equivalent is the Scrabble dictionary :lol:
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

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Hanafuridake
Minister
 
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Founded: Sep 09, 2018
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Hanafuridake » Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:05 pm

I hate the common claim that, because you support the death penalty, that makes you just as bad as a murderer or other monstrous human being. I'm opposed to the death penalty for a number of reasons, but I don't like how some people seem to think that punishing a murderer with death is equivalent to that murderer's crimes against an innocent human being. There's a difference between being merciful and having a bleeding heart.
Time traveling Heian princess trapped in the 21st century

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Jolthig
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Posts: 14694
Founded: Aug 31, 2010
Democratic Socialists

Postby Jolthig » Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:09 pm

Hanafuridake wrote:I hate the common claim that, because you support the death penalty, that makes you just as bad as a murderer or other monstrous human being. I'm opposed to the death penalty for a number of reasons, but I don't like how some people seem to think that punishing a murderer with death is equivalent to that murderer's crimes against an innocent human being. There's a difference between being merciful and having a bleeding heart.

Right. The death penalty actually preserves life.
Ahmadi Muslim • Khaddam of Ahmadiyya • debater • defender of Islam & Ahmadiyya from its critics • theistic evolutionist • Star Wars fan • rock and metal fan • Pragmatic on politics
Bernie Sanders 2020

Grenartia wrote:Then we Marshall Plan it.

Kowani wrote:
Jolthig wrote:Lol why

“Und Mirza”

:lol2:

Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:Isn't that what NSG is for though to a degree?

YOU’RE WRONG.

Allow me to explain using several fallacies, veiled insults, and insinuations that you’re ugly and dumb.

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Novus America
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Posts: 25026
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:17 pm

Jolthig wrote:
Hanafuridake wrote:I hate the common claim that, because you support the death penalty, that makes you just as bad as a murderer or other monstrous human being. I'm opposed to the death penalty for a number of reasons, but I don't like how some people seem to think that punishing a murderer with death is equivalent to that murderer's crimes against an innocent human being. There's a difference between being merciful and having a bleeding heart.

Right. The death penalty actually preserves life.


Yes, my big issue is fear of executing the innocent. Also I do not support unnecessary killing.
So I would generally limit it to repeat offenders, cases with no doubt of guilt and generally to only those too dangerous to imprison safely (attacks other guards or inmates, run a criminal organization while in prison, escape from prison).
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

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Diopolis
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Posts: 12650
Founded: May 15, 2012
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Diopolis » Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:51 pm

Jolthig wrote:
Hanafuridake wrote:I hate the common claim that, because you support the death penalty, that makes you just as bad as a murderer or other monstrous human being. I'm opposed to the death penalty for a number of reasons, but I don't like how some people seem to think that punishing a murderer with death is equivalent to that murderer's crimes against an innocent human being. There's a difference between being merciful and having a bleeding heart.

Right. The death penalty actually preserves life.

Aye.
Trad-Catholic, hispanophile Texan distributist and paleoconservative.
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Thoughts
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Jolthig
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Jolthig » Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:53 pm

Novus America wrote:
Jolthig wrote:Right. The death penalty actually preserves life.


Yes, my big issue is fear of executing the innocent. Also I do not support unnecessary killing.
So I would generally limit it to repeat offenders, cases with no doubt of guilt and generally to only those too dangerous to imprison safely (attacks other guards or inmates, run a criminal organization while in prison, escape from prison).

Yeah. There should be overwhelming evidence for one to get the death penalty.
Ahmadi Muslim • Khaddam of Ahmadiyya • debater • defender of Islam & Ahmadiyya from its critics • theistic evolutionist • Star Wars fan • rock and metal fan • Pragmatic on politics
Bernie Sanders 2020

Grenartia wrote:Then we Marshall Plan it.

Kowani wrote:
Jolthig wrote:Lol why

“Und Mirza”

:lol2:

Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:Isn't that what NSG is for though to a degree?

YOU’RE WRONG.

Allow me to explain using several fallacies, veiled insults, and insinuations that you’re ugly and dumb.

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Kowani
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Posts: 12799
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:44 pm

Jolthig wrote:
Hanafuridake wrote:I hate the common claim that, because you support the death penalty, that makes you just as bad as a murderer or other monstrous human being. I'm opposed to the death penalty for a number of reasons, but I don't like how some people seem to think that punishing a murderer with death is equivalent to that murderer's crimes against an innocent human being. There's a difference between being merciful and having a bleeding heart.

Right. The death penalty actually preserves life.

:eyebrow: Citation needed.
Narcissistic (Hedonistic) Nihilist. Yes, I am edgy. I know.
Dorgival R. Seč of the NS Parliament!
Atheist and still proud of it.
Post-Capitalist, Post-Nationalist.
Rights are functionally just privileges society has deemed important.
Prydania wrote:
As a Canadian? I find Americans and their deep, deep distrust of the government to be fundamentally, critically, laughably flawed. And I say this as someone who is, all and all, quite comfortable and happy in his new life in the US. The humidity's a bit much, but yeah. I like here. Still? I find some aspects of your country completely absurd. The distrust of anything remotely resembling authority is one. The gun problem that stems from that is another.

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Al Mumtahanah
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Al Mumtahanah » Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:24 pm

Kowani wrote:
Jolthig wrote:Right. The death penalty actually preserves life.

:eyebrow: Citation needed.

Less adultery means less suicide.
Ifreann wrote:
Rojava Free State wrote:How about if I don't wanna learn about Islam I shouldn't have to?

Makes about as much sense as letting kids decide that if they don't wanna eat then they shouldn't have to.

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Jolthig
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Founded: Aug 31, 2010
Democratic Socialists

Postby Jolthig » Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:28 pm

Kowani wrote:
Jolthig wrote:Right. The death penalty actually preserves life.

:eyebrow: Citation needed.

Not a citation, but the death penalty, given the capital nature of the crimes the offender committed, puts away from society a danger. Sure, prison can do that too, but I simply do not view as enough for a man to simply sit there, for the rest of his life, rotting. For the families of whoever the offender affected, they should be given justice. In this case, eye for an eye, tooth for tooth.
Ahmadi Muslim • Khaddam of Ahmadiyya • debater • defender of Islam & Ahmadiyya from its critics • theistic evolutionist • Star Wars fan • rock and metal fan • Pragmatic on politics
Bernie Sanders 2020

Grenartia wrote:Then we Marshall Plan it.

Kowani wrote:
Jolthig wrote:Lol why

“Und Mirza”

:lol2:

Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:Isn't that what NSG is for though to a degree?

YOU’RE WRONG.

Allow me to explain using several fallacies, veiled insults, and insinuations that you’re ugly and dumb.

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The Xenopolis Confederation
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7381
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:39 pm

Al Mumtahanah wrote:
Kowani wrote: :eyebrow: Citation needed.

Less adultery means less suicide.

Word of reminder folks, trollnaming is against the rules. Just a random reminder.
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Direct Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Psychedelic Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, Non-Market-Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Macs, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Economic: 0.5
Social: -8
I'm an 18 year old Australian who tries to think about things but fails, as we all do. I'll regret this in 2 years tops.

I think I have gender dysphoria so I'd prefer you use she/her pronouns on me. If not, he/him'll do.

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The Xenopolis Confederation
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Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:50 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:We should ban Islamists tbh

From what?

Cappuccina wrote:I disagree with Al Mumtahanah, "religious freedom" is a western secular (aka atheist) concept which is alien to and non-existent in Islam (as it should be).

A Muslim state has no need for 'religious freedom" and Muslim relationships with unbelievers is governed by scripture. God (swt) had already layed out for us how to govern and how to behave, musings of unbelievers are irrelevant.

Surely you believe in some level of religious freedom, because if there's absolutely no religious freedom, non-Muslims would all be banned and persecuted, and you don't want that, do you?

Cappuccina wrote:Why do you say that?

Because you continue to display how horrible it really is better than any non-Muslim could.

Cappuccina wrote:Convincing people to become muslim isn't the job of muslims. If you're not muslim you're not muslim, and we have instructions on how to deal with you.

What are those instructions?

Cappuccina wrote:If I were to be executed by a future Caliphate, it'd be God's (swt) will. People often only support an idealized regime in which they themselves would be
validated and accepted, I have no such expectations.

But surely you would want to establish a society in which you would be validated and accepted, insofar as you've done nothing wrong, right?

Kowani wrote:Religion is deeply intertwined with right-wing belief.

Often, but not necessarily.

Jolthig wrote:Right. The death penalty actually preserves life.

That claim is patently the opposite of the case in the short term, and dubious in the long term.

Hanafuridake wrote:I hate the common claim that, because you support the death penalty, that makes you just as bad as a murderer or other monstrous human being. I'm opposed to the death penalty for a number of reasons, but I don't like how some people seem to think that punishing a murderer with death is equivalent to that murderer's crimes against an innocent human being. There's a difference between being merciful and having a bleeding heart.

I view any killing not done in self-defense or with the consent of the dying as murder (aside from things like turning off a braindead patient's life support). So I think the death penalty is technically murder. That's not to say it's as bad as murder of innocent people, but it's still murder imo.
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Direct Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Psychedelic Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, Non-Market-Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Macs, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Economic: 0.5
Social: -8
I'm an 18 year old Australian who tries to think about things but fails, as we all do. I'll regret this in 2 years tops.

I think I have gender dysphoria so I'd prefer you use she/her pronouns on me. If not, he/him'll do.

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Nova Cyberia
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Founded: May 06, 2019
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Nova Cyberia » Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:51 pm

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
Nova Cyberia wrote:Yep. That's where I'm at.

Why tho?

Discussions with radical Muslims, mainly.
Yes, yes, I'm racist and fascist because I disagree with you. Can we skip that part? I've heard it a million times before and I guarantee it won't be any different when you do it.
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Cappuccina
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Cappuccina » Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:06 pm

Jolthig wrote:
Novus America wrote:
Yes, my big issue is fear of executing the innocent. Also I do not support unnecessary killing.
So I would generally limit it to repeat offenders, cases with no doubt of guilt and generally to only those too dangerous to imprison safely (attacks other guards or inmates, run a criminal organization while in prison, escape from prison).

Yeah. There should be overwhelming evidence for one to get the death penalty.

Indeed. That's why justice departments must be vigilant and have their eyes peeled, looking for corruption amongst their own.
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##################
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Totally Not OEP
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Totally Not OEP » Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:10 pm

Al Mumtahanah wrote:
Kowani wrote: :eyebrow: Citation needed.

Less adultery means less suicide.


The proscription on Adultery really does need to be restored.
Last edited by Totally Not OEP on Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Totally Not OEP
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Totally Not OEP » Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:12 pm

Kowani wrote:
Jolthig wrote:Right. The death penalty actually preserves life.

:eyebrow: Citation needed.


I'd have to dig for it, but until fairly recently the overwhelming body of research concluded that the Death Penalty did deter crime. Nowadays they say it doesn't but that ignores a very large caveat: the Death Penalty is very rarely used anymore.

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Jack Thomas Lang
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Founded: Apr 18, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Jack Thomas Lang » Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:21 pm

Totally Not OEP wrote:I'd have to dig for it, but until fairly recently the overwhelming body of research concluded that the Death Penalty did deter crime. Nowadays they say it doesn't but that ignores a very large caveat: the Death Penalty is very rarely used anymore.

Then dig for it. I for one have my doubts that the death penalty is morally acceptable and practically desirable.
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Novus America
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25026
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:22 pm

Jolthig wrote:
Novus America wrote:
Yes, my big issue is fear of executing the innocent. Also I do not support unnecessary killing.
So I would generally limit it to repeat offenders, cases with no doubt of guilt and generally to only those too dangerous to imprison safely (attacks other guards or inmates, run a criminal organization while in prison, escape from prison).

Yeah. There should be overwhelming evidence for one to get the death penalty.


It should have a higher standard of proof, beyond a shadow of a doubt, for example crimes where the defendant is not even claiming not to be guilty, is caught committing the crime before a large group like mass shootings, that sort.

And people who commit serious crimes while still in jail.

If there is any question of the identity of the perpetrator I would not do it.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

User avatar
Novus America
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25026
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:23 pm

Totally Not OEP wrote:
Kowani wrote: :eyebrow: Citation needed.


I'd have to dig for it, but until fairly recently the overwhelming body of research concluded that the Death Penalty did deter crime. Nowadays they say it doesn't but that ignores a very large caveat: the Death Penalty is very rarely used anymore.


Well it is also the only punishment with guaranteed complete rehabilitation, zero chance of recidivism.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

User avatar
Mostrov
Minister
 
Posts: 2499
Founded: Aug 06, 2009
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Mostrov » Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:24 pm

Hanafuridake wrote:I hate the common claim that, because you support the death penalty, that makes you just as bad as a murderer or other monstrous human being. I'm opposed to the death penalty for a number of reasons, but I don't like how some people seem to think that punishing a murderer with death is equivalent to that murderer's crimes against an innocent human being. There's a difference between being merciful and having a bleeding heart.

I was having this very conversation yesterday, who was making the point about the backwardness of religion and how such things have no place in our age. But borrowing off Surveiller et punir, it isn't as though the people didn't have a profound sense of the humanity of what they were committing. Executioners (hangsman and headsman both) in England had their black hoods, both to hide their identity and due to the concept of pollution involved. The idea of whether these people who were regarded as being murdered and whether they could go to heaven was a matter for considerable public interest. They, as we do now with matters such as homelessness, simply regarded it as part of the tragedy of the times and were happy to live with it, as we do now with many other ills that might be regarded as even worse—and I often find commentated on by foreigners who come to western countries—than what they perceived as so at the time.

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