Right-Wing Discussion Thread XVI: Making Things Right Again

[Bread Herbert]

Yeah because some people don't like being disturbed in their reality-disconnected Ivory Tower where they discuss the merits of abstruse ideologues nobody cares about. Its a bit like with immigrants. People welcome them or think "oh their culture" and so. We know some right-wingers also have a often rather romantic fondness for Islam because its against "muh degeneracy" etc.

Now once that thing however does appears in one backyard or neighbourhood... the sentiments rather change.

As it does here.

Good riddance.

Good riddance? I'm still here.

Gregory Stevens

[Nakena]

Yeah because some people don't like being disturbed in their reality-disconnected Ivory Tower where they discuss the merits of abstruse ideologues nobody cares about. Its a bit like with immigrants. People welcome them or think "oh their culture" and so. We know some right-wingers also have a often rather romantic fondness for Islam because its against "muh degeneracy" etc.

Now once that thing however does appears in one backyard or neighbourhood... the sentiments rather change.

As it does here.

Good riddance.

Good riddance? I'm still here.

Yes. Thats exactly the point.

[Turbofolkia]

I think you're giving fundamentalist Islam too much credit if you're saying it's the biggest ideological threat to the West. That's undoubtedly China.

I don't know about you, but I would rather live in China than in an unreasonable Islamic regime like Iran or Saudi Arabia.

It's not a question of where you'd rather live. I was just pointing out that China poses a larger threat, at least ideologically and politically, to the West than Iran or KSA ever would.

[Nakena]

Its just a confrontation with the reality. Fundamental Islam is currently the biggest ideological and religious competitor with western civilization and El-Amin/ECKU is, sort of, representative of that.

I think you're giving fundamentalist Islam too much credit if you're saying it's the biggest ideological threat to the West. That's undoubtedly China.

The People's Republic of China is just a state that has been around since 70 years or so and may change its form at any given time or moment. The reasons why it is currently in geopolitical opposition to the west may change as well. The fate of its rather swallow ideological contents stand and fall with its economic prosperity. And it has no longer a manifest destiny for world domination. Its dangerous in its own way but totally different and not comparable with Islam. Why do you think though China and Burma are trying to annihilate Islam within their borders?

Fundamental Islam on the other hand is a global force that keeps growing stronger and is clearly bent on world domination, conquest, victory and theres many westerners getting coverted to it. With major political and societal forces in the west actively tolerating or patronizing this development for their own reasons. And its not going to change anytime soon by all likehood. It's meant for eternity and everything and everyone.

At some point it will produce though a forceful counter response. At the very moment people in their vincinity start getting bothered by it.

Which is exactly what is happening right now, right here, in this thread even. Do you see it?

I don't know about you, but I would rather live in China than in an unreasonable Islamic regime like Iran or Saudi Arabia.

It's not a question of where you'd rather live. I was just pointing out that China poses a larger threat, at least ideologically and politically, to the West than Iran or KSA ever would.

This isn't about Iran or KSA.

[ECKU]

Good riddance? I'm still here.

Gregory Stevens

Whomst?

[Nea Byzantia]

Once we have a revolution and a National Syndicalist society, I'd imagine a lot of the social problems we on the right bemoan will begin to be repaired naturally.

What do you mean by National Syndicalist, if you don't mind me asking?

[Washington Resistance Army]

Once we have a revolution and a National Syndicalist society, I'd imagine a lot of the social problems we on the right bemoan will begin to be repaired naturally.

What do you mean by National Syndicalist, if you don't mind me asking?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_syndicalism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascist_syndicalism

[Nea Byzantia]

What do you mean by National Syndicalist, if you don't mind me asking?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_syndicalism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascist_syndicalism

Thanks.

[Turbofolkia]

The People's Republic of China is just a state that has been around since 70 years or so and may change its form at any given time or moment. The reasons why it is currently in geopolitical opposition to the west may change as well. The fate of its rather swallow ideological contents stand and fall with its economic prosperity. And it has no longer a manifest destiny for world domination. Its dangerous in its own way but totally different and not comparable with Islam. Why do you think though China and Burma are trying to annihilate Islam within their borders?

Fundamental Islam on the other hand is a global force that keeps growing stronger and is clearly bent on world domination, conquest, victory and theres many westerners getting coverted to it. With major political and societal forces in the west actively tolerating or patronizing this development for their own reasons. And its not going to change anytime soon by all likehood. It's meant for eternity and everything and everyone.

At some point it will produce though a forceful counter response. At the very moment people in their vincinity start getting bothered by it.

Which is exactly what is happening right now, right here, in this thread even. Do you see it?

Why do you say fundamental Islam is growing stronger? Deaths from Islamic terrorism have been declining for several years. Sure, fundamentalist Muslims can kill scores of people, which is of course terrible, but it is not as insidious as systematically undermining a sovereign state, politically and economically, to transform it into a client state of a foreign power. Such tactics include (but are not limited to), having agents in Western parliaments and bribing Western schools to hire pro-CCP teachers.

[Novus America]

For the love of all that's holy, can we not delve into another brainless argument with Amin?

He's indoctrinated to all hell into Islamism so it's not as if you'll change his mind on anything. As usual he's (like he's doing right now) going to simply "nuh-uh" every criticism.

Exactly. We know the shtick. It is tiresome. The same thing over and over. Endless thread jacks, link spam, the slavery garbage, random Arabic phrases and whatever with absolutely nothing to back it but “much Islam says so”.

Ignore is the only way to get this under control.
The mods will not do enough, but by ignoring those who deliberately ruin this thread we can self moderate.
I know it is hard, but please just ignore this stuff, and the offending individual will get bored if the are no longer getting a rise out of people.

[Salus Maior]

Just like you're indoctrinated to all Hell in whatever ideology you profess (what ideology do you profess again?).

One that isn't clearly evil.

And I came to my conclusions through critical thought as well as conviction. It's pretty clear you're not capable of the former.

[Nakena]

Why do you say fundamental Islam is growing stronger? Deaths from Islamic terrorism have been declining for several years. Sure, fundamentalist Muslims can kill scores of people, which is of course terrible, but it is not as insidious as systematically undermining a sovereign state, politically and economically, to transform it into a client state of a foreign power. Such tactics include (but are not limited to), having agents in Western parliaments and bribing Western schools to hire pro-CCP teachers.

Fundamental Islam is an ideological competitor, China by most means more a material one.

tl;dr: China and Fundamental Islam are very different kinds of threats. That doesnt mean that the PRC is harmless. Far from it. But a different story.

Theres, currently, no way that fundamental Islam can win a conventional war with western nations. But it's apologists and enablers are currently in charge of most western nations, or at the very least deeply embedded in the establishment. It isn't attempting to form client states or act geopolitically at the moment, it is acting ideological by offering an alternative to the void that currently exists in the west.

Even here in NSG, some fell to its siren song, either because they were inclined about it to begin with, and maybe also because the whole ideological bullshit garbage pandered on places like RWDT couldn offer them the definitive answer they were searching for. ;^)

[Nakena]

For the love of all that's holy, can we not delve into another brainless argument with Amin?

He's indoctrinated to all hell into Islamism so it's not as if you'll change his mind on anything. As usual he's (like he's doing right now) going to simply "nuh-uh" every criticism.

Exactly. We know the shtick. It is tiresome. The same thing over and over. Endless thread jacks, link spam, the slavery garbage, random Arabic phrases and whatever with absolutely nothing to back it but “much Islam says so”.

Ignore is the only way to get this under control.
The mods will not do enough, but by ignoring those who deliberately ruin this thread we can self moderate.
I know it is hard, but please just ignore this stuff, and the offending individual will get bored if the are no longer getting a rise out of people.

This is actually the best and most effective strategy. It never fails to amaze me how easy people take the most obvious and false baits. Perhaps theres the urge that certain things should not be let written unopposed even when they come obviously from bad faith actors. Something that I've observed the most though in the Trans thread more than here. Way more. So we're still good.

[ECKU]

Just like you're indoctrinated to all Hell in whatever ideology you profess (what ideology do you profess again?).

One that isn't clearly evil.

'Indoctrinated' nonetheless

And I came to my conclusions through critical thought as well as conviction. It's pretty clear you're not capable of the former.

Apparently this isn't flaming....>sigh<
Anyways, as I tell multiple people here that do the same thing you just did: Do Not Make Assumptions About Me.

For the love of all that's holy, can we not delve into another brainless argument with Amin?

He's indoctrinated to all hell into Islamism so it's not as if you'll change his mind on anything. As usual he's (like he's doing right now) going to simply "nuh-uh" every criticism.

Exactly. We know the shtick. It is tiresome. The same thing over and over. Endless thread jacks, link spam, the slavery garbage, random Arabic phrases and whatever with absolutely nothing to back it but “much Islam says so”.

Ignore is the only way to get this under control.
The mods will not do enough, but by ignoring those who deliberately ruin this thread we can self moderate.
I know it is hard, but please just ignore this stuff, and the offending individual will get bored if the are no longer getting a rise out of people.

My goal isn't to get a rise out of anyone. I'm stating my beliefs. Shoot, I'd state them whether y'all get and at me or not. As for the threadjacking, I take partial responsibility for starting them and full responsibility for continuing them. My apologies.

[Novus America]

The People's Republic of China is just a state that has been around since 70 years or so and may change its form at any given time or moment. The reasons why it is currently in geopolitical opposition to the west may change as well. The fate of its rather swallow ideological contents stand and fall with its economic prosperity. And it has no longer a manifest destiny for world domination. Its dangerous in its own way but totally different and not comparable with Islam. Why do you think though China and Burma are trying to annihilate Islam within their borders?

Fundamental Islam on the other hand is a global force that keeps growing stronger and is clearly bent on world domination, conquest, victory and theres many westerners getting coverted to it. With major political and societal forces in the west actively tolerating or patronizing this development for their own reasons. And its not going to change anytime soon by all likehood. It's meant for eternity and everything and everyone.

At some point it will produce though a forceful counter response. At the very moment people in their vincinity start getting bothered by it.

Which is exactly what is happening right now, right here, in this thread even. Do you see it?

Why do you say fundamental Islam is growing stronger? Deaths from Islamic terrorism have been declining for several years. Sure, fundamentalist Muslims can kill scores of people, which is of course terrible, but it is not as insidious as systematically undermining a sovereign state, politically and economically, to transform it into a client state of a foreign power. Such tactics include (but are not limited to), having agents in Western parliaments and bribing Western schools to hire pro-CCP teachers.

Both are threats, in different ways. It should be noted the PRC is more interestied In shutting down opposition than winning converts.
The PRC is not trying to convert the US to their ideology as much as destroying us.

The PRC does not want to convert the world to true believers in Xi thought or whatever shallow self serving BS it made up that day.

Rather it is about keeping anyone in the world from opposing the PRC government.
They do not care if those outside the PRC believe, as long as they obey.

Islam wants to make everyone believe. Make everyone a in the world a Muslim.
The PRC does NOT want to make everyone in the world a CCP member obviously.

The weakness of Islam from a conventional standpoint is its disorganization, stupid economics and ideological rigidity. But those do no inhibit its unconventional strategy.

The PRC is the much greater conventional threat. It is smart and pragmatic, while Islam is not. But from an unconventional standpoint Islam is a problem. Both need to be countered.

The easy way to end the Islamic threat is to reach peak oil demand, replace Middle Eastern oil with other energy sources.
Without oil, Petro Islam or modern Salafism will collapse. So will Iran.

From the 1700s to the 1960s Islam was not a credible threat. It was not until the oil crisis of the 70s it became a serious one again.

Kill oil, and you kill Iran, the KSA and Qatar. Countless Mosques go bankrupt. Their money stops building more. Their credibility goes out the window.

[Salus Maior]

One that isn't clearly evil.

'Indoctrinated' nonetheless

And I came to my conclusions through critical thought as well as conviction. It's pretty clear you're not capable of the former.

Apparently this isn't flaming....>sigh<
Anyways, as I tell multiple people here that do the same thing you just did: Do Not Make Assumptions About Me.

It's not indoctrination if I made an informed choice, if I looked at my beliefs and criticized them, and changed accordingly.

It's not an assumption because you make that abundantly clear every time you argue anything. If some old Arab wrote something in the 7th century, you're compelled to believe it without question, and even further, you believe it should be applied in the modern day. Without question, without any doubt that it's somehow the perfect way everything should be regardless of how horrifying the implications are. "It's what Al-Islam wants".

[ECKU]

The weakness of Islam is its disorganization

Actually the religion is pretty organized.

stupid economics

Afaik Al-Islam doesn't have an economic system.

and ideological rigidity.

That's a strength, not a weakness.

It is smart and pragmatic, while Islam is not.

Duh, religions don't have brains.

But from an unconventional standpoint Islam is a problem.

Only to ShayTaan (Satan) and ahlul-kufr (disbelievers).

The easy way to end the Islamic threat

Al-Islam isn't a threat.

is to reach peak oil demand, replace Middle Eastern oil with other energy sources.

That won't end Al-Islam.

Without oil, Petro Islam

Doesn't exist

or modern Salafism will collapse.

Good.

So will Iran.

From the 1700s to the 1960s Islam was not a credible threat. It was not until the oil crisis of the 70s it became a serious one again.

It never was a threat to begin with.

Kill oil, and you kill Iran, the KSA and Qatar. Countless Mosques go bankrupt. Their money stops building more. Their credibility goes out the window.

The masaajid can find funding elsewhere. Hopefully they would.

[Great Kauthar]

For the love of all that's holy, can we not delve into another brainless argument with Amin?

He's indoctrinated to all hell into Islamism so it's not as if you'll change his mind on anything. As usual he's (like he's doing right now) going to simply "nuh-uh" every criticism.

Exactly. We know the shtick. It is tiresome. The same thing over and over. Endless thread jacks, link spam, the slavery garbage, random Arabic phrases and whatever with absolutely nothing to back it but “much Islam says so”.

Ignore is the only way to get this under control.
The mods will not do enough, but by ignoring those who deliberately ruin this thread we can self moderate.
I know it is hard, but please just ignore this stuff, and the offending individual will get bored if the are no longer getting a rise out of people.

Why not challenge his belief in Islam?

[ECKU]

'Indoctrinated' nonetheless

Apparently this isn't flaming....>sigh<
Anyways, as I tell multiple people here that do the same thing you just did: Do Not Make Assumptions About Me.

It's not indoctrination if I made an informed choice, if I looked at my beliefs and criticized them, and changed accordingly.

Point made.

It's not an assumption because you make that abundantly clear every time you argue anything.

Yes it is, because you have no idea how I got here.

If some old Arab wrote something in the 7th century, you're compelled to believe it without question, and even further, you believe it should be applied in the modern day. Without question, without any doubt that it's somehow the perfect way everything should be regardless of how horrifying the implications are. "It's what Al-Islam wants".

Incorrect. Allah SWT does not want us to follow what some old Arab man wrote in the 7th century.

[Nea Byzantia]

Why do you say fundamental Islam is growing stronger? Deaths from Islamic terrorism have been declining for several years. Sure, fundamentalist Muslims can kill scores of people, which is of course terrible, but it is not as insidious as systematically undermining a sovereign state, politically and economically, to transform it into a client state of a foreign power. Such tactics include (but are not limited to), having agents in Western parliaments and bribing Western schools to hire pro-CCP teachers.

Both are threats, in different ways. It should be noted the PRC is more interestied In shutting down opposition than winning converts.
The PRC is not trying to convert the US to their ideology as much as destroying us.

The PRC does not want to convert the world to true believers in Xi thought or whatever shallow self serving BS it made up that day.

Rather it is about keeping anyone in the world from opposing the PRC government.
They do not care if those outside the PRC believe, as long as they obey.

Islam wants to make everyone believe. Make everyone a in the world a Muslim.
The PRC does NOT want to make everyone in the world a CCP member obviously.

The weakness of Islam is its disorganization, stupid economics and ideological rigidity.

The PRC is the much greater conventional threat. It is smart and pragmatic, while Islam is not. But from an unconventional standpoint Islam is a problem. Both need to be countered.

The easy way to end the Islamic threat is to reach peak oil demand, replace Middle Eastern oil with other energy sources.
Without oil, Petro Islam or modern Salafism will collapse. So will Iran.

From the 1700s to the 1960s Islam was not a credible threat. It was not until the oil crisis of the 70s it became a serious one again.

Kill oil, and you kill Iran, the KSA and Qatar. Countless Mosques go bankrupt. Their money stops building more. Their credibility goes out the window.

I think you're comparing Apples and Oranges.

Islam is a Religion; a Civilizational force that moves through many different nations, and it is by no means unified or monolithic. The Ottomans were enemies of the Mamelukes (until they conquered them), and Safavid Persia (Iran) was always a thorn in the side of the Turkish Sultans. In our own times, Iran is locked in a high-stakes, winner-takes-all contest for Hegemony over the Islamic World; the irony is that this Hegemony is never maintained for long, and the fight goes on. This fact of constant divisiveness and infighting within Islam can and has been used by outside Powers to their own advantage. Russia is backing Iran, and has eliminated all the Wahabi funded Mosques in their country, replacing it with a Islam more native and amenable to their own interests. Islam can work for you as much as it can against you.

The PRC on the other hand is both unified and monolithic; as it is a Great Power; a Rising Star, and it is not interested in sharing a platform with its old abuser, the Anglo-American Power. Unfortunately, for the Anglo-Americans, there's very little outside of all-out war, that they can do to stop the Rise of China.

[ECKU]

Exactly. We know the shtick. It is tiresome. The same thing over and over. Endless thread jacks, link spam, the slavery garbage, random Arabic phrases and whatever with absolutely nothing to back it but “much Islam says so”.

Ignore is the only way to get this under control.
The mods will not do enough, but by ignoring those who deliberately ruin this thread we can self moderate.
I know it is hard, but please just ignore this stuff, and the offending individual will get bored if the are no longer getting a rise out of people.

Why not challenge his belief in Islam?

I'm pretty sure every argument we've had was a challenge to my imaan (belief). An easy challenge, but a challenge nonetheless.

[ECKU]

Both are threats, in different ways. It should be noted the PRC is more interestied In shutting down opposition than winning converts.
The PRC is not trying to convert the US to their ideology as much as destroying us.

The PRC does not want to convert the world to true believers in Xi thought or whatever shallow self serving BS it made up that day.

Rather it is about keeping anyone in the world from opposing the PRC government.
They do not care if those outside the PRC believe, as long as they obey.

Islam wants to make everyone believe. Make everyone a in the world a Muslim.
The PRC does NOT want to make everyone in the world a CCP member obviously.

The weakness of Islam is its disorganization, stupid economics and ideological rigidity.

The PRC is the much greater conventional threat. It is smart and pragmatic, while Islam is not. But from an unconventional standpoint Islam is a problem. Both need to be countered.

The easy way to end the Islamic threat is to reach peak oil demand, replace Middle Eastern oil with other energy sources.
Without oil, Petro Islam or modern Salafism will collapse. So will Iran.

From the 1700s to the 1960s Islam was not a credible threat. It was not until the oil crisis of the 70s it became a serious one again.

Kill oil, and you kill Iran, the KSA and Qatar. Countless Mosques go bankrupt. Their money stops building more. Their credibility goes out the window.

I think you're comparing Apples and Oranges.

Islam is a Religion; a Civilizational force that moves through many different nations, and it is by no means unified or monolithic. The Ottomans were enemies of the Mamelukes (until they conquered them), and Safavid Persia (Iran) was always a thorn in the side of the Turkish Sultans. In our own times, Iran is locked in a high-stakes, winner-takes-all contest for Hegemony over the Islamic World; the irony is that this Hegemony is never maintained for long, and the fight goes on. This fact of constant divisiveness and infighting within Islam can and has been used by outside Powers to their own advantage. Russia is backing Iran, and has eliminated all the Wahabi funded Mosques in their country, replacing it with a Islam more native and amenable to their own interests.

You're talking about Muslims, not Al-Islam.

Islam can work for you as much as it can against you.

No, that's not how that works.

[Nea Byzantia]

I think you're comparing Apples and Oranges.

Islam is a Religion; a Civilizational force that moves through many different nations, and it is by no means unified or monolithic. The Ottomans were enemies of the Mamelukes (until they conquered them), and Safavid Persia (Iran) was always a thorn in the side of the Turkish Sultans. In our own times, Iran is locked in a high-stakes, winner-takes-all contest for Hegemony over the Islamic World; the irony is that this Hegemony is never maintained for long, and the fight goes on. This fact of constant divisiveness and infighting within Islam can and has been used by outside Powers to their own advantage. Russia is backing Iran, and has eliminated all the Wahabi funded Mosques in their country, replacing it with a Islam more native and amenable to their own interests.

You're talking about Muslims, not Al-Islam.

Islam can work for you as much as it can against you.

No, that's not how that works.

I'm saying Islam is not necessarily an Enemy, so much as it is a rival Religion; a rival Civilization, if you will.

[Washington Resistance Army]

You're talking about Muslims, not Al-Islam.

No, that's not how that works.

I'm saying Islam is not necessarily an Enemy, so much as it is a rival Religion; a rival Civilization, if you will.

It is absolutely an enemy of the west.

[Novus America]

Exactly. We know the shtick. It is tiresome. The same thing over and over. Endless thread jacks, link spam, the slavery garbage, random Arabic phrases and whatever with absolutely nothing to back it but “much Islam says so”.

Ignore is the only way to get this under control.
The mods will not do enough, but by ignoring those who deliberately ruin this thread we can self moderate.
I know it is hard, but please just ignore this stuff, and the offending individual will get bored if the are no longer getting a rise out of people.

Why not challenge his belief in Islam?

Because you cannot effectively challenge purely circular beliefs.
You can not argue against a statement of belief not based in anything but itself.

If I say 1+1=11 because my God says so and my God cannot possibly be wrong, then how do you even challenge that? Material temptations are the best weapon against such ideological rigidity but we cannot employ them here.