NationStates

Nova Cyberia wrote:

Torrocca wrote:
"All legislation passed through his office for approval, except that concerning the army, the police and foreign policy, and he wrote and co-signed many of Hitler's decrees.[45] An organiser of the annual Nuremberg Rallies, he usually gave the opening speech and introduced Hitler. Hess also spoke over the radio and at rallies around the country, so frequently that the speeches were collected into book form in 1938.[46] Hess acted as Hitler's delegate in negotiations with industrialists and members of the wealthier classes.[47] As Hess had been born abroad, Hitler had him oversee the NSDAP groups such as the NSDAP/AO that were in charge of party members living in other countries.[48] Hitler instructed Hess to review all court decisions that related to persons deemed enemies of the Party. He was authorised to increase the sentences of anyone he felt got off too lightly in these cases, and was also empowered to take "merciless action" if he saw fit to do so. This often entailed sending the person to a concentration camp or simply ordering the person killed.[49] Hess was given the rank of Obergruppenführer in the Schutzstaffel (SS) in 1934, the second-highest SS rank.[50]"

"I'm GoNnA hAvE tO qUeStiOn HoW mUcH hE aCtUaLlY kNeW aBoUt ThiS!!1!"

Again, hun, you can stop your apologia for a Nazi from Hitler's inner circle any time now.

All legislation passed through his office for approval, except that concerning the army, the police and foreign policy, and he wrote and co-signed many of Hitler's decrees.

Lol. Like I said, he had bo involvement with the Army or the planning and implementation of Operation Barbarossa.

I love how you think this somehow means he was ignorant of Lebensraum and the implications that came with it lmao. Or that he had no knowledge of Barbarossa, considering that he fucking went to broker peace with the British specifically to prevent a two-front war in order to make the Nazis' goals more easily attainable.

Also, the SS controlled the police. Himmler was Reichsführer and Chief of German Police and they were responsible for many of the anti-Semitic acts against Jews. Hess had no control over the police.

"Hess was given the rank of Obergruppenführer in the Schutzstaffel (SS) in 1934, the second-highest SS rank.[50]"

Hmm.

Again, I'm not saying Hess was totally innocent. I'm just saying what happened to him was ridiculous and what you're saying about him is bullshit. You just have a bad understanding of history.

The only one here with the shitty understanding of history is you with your Nazi apologia by insinuating that Hess - a member of Adolf Hitler's inner circle and a close friend and confidant of Hitler and a man almost at the top of the Nazi Party - didn't know jack shit about the Nazi's plans regarding Jews, Slavs, etc.

Salus Maior wrote:

Kowani wrote:…No? The reason for my existence is simple, my parents. There is no greater purpose, one merely is.

Don't be needlessly obtuse, you're not making yourself sound any more intelligent.

What's with the unwarranted hostility to Kowani merely having an opinion.

Torrocca wrote:"Hess was given the rank of Obergruppenführer in the Schutzstaffel (SS) in 1934, the second-highest SS rank.[50]"

Hmm.

If you know literally anything about Nazi Germany you would know Himmler tried to give the rank to everyone to further expand the SS's power and influence lol

Washington Resistance Army wrote:

Torrocca wrote:"Hess was given the rank of Obergruppenführer in the Schutzstaffel (SS) in 1934, the second-highest SS rank.[50]"

Hmm.

If you know literally anything about Nazi Germany you would know Himmler tried to give the rank to everyone to further expand the SS's power and influence lol

That rank was only given to a select few people in Nazi Germany's time.

The Nuremberg Trials was tainted because of the wholly spurious charge of “crimes against peace.” Trying and hanging Nazis for the Holocaust and Generalplan ost were good. Although it could probably have happened a lot faster were it not for them being charged for invading neutral countries, by representatives of the British Empire and Soviet Union of all peoples. There's also the opportuness of the whole affair. The Italian high command who authorized war crimes were mostly let off the hook because of the need for Anti-Communist leaders in post-war Italy.

I'm not going to lose any sleep for dead Nazis, but aspects of the trials leave a bad taste in my mouth from their sheer hypocrisy and lack of moral consistency.

Hanafuridake wrote:The Nuremberg Trials was tainted because of the wholly spurious charge of “crimes against peace.” Trying and hanging Nazis for the Holocaust and Generalplan ost were good. Although it could probably have happened a lot faster were it not for them being charged for invading neutral countries, by representatives of the British Empire and Soviet Union of all peoples. There's also the opportuness of the whole affair. The Italian high command who authorized war crimes were mostly let off the hook because of the need for Anti-Communist leaders in post-war Italy.

I'm not going to lose any sleep for dead Nazis, but aspects of the trials leave a bad taste in my mouth from their sheer hypocrisy and lack of moral consistency.

Basically this. The Nuremberg Trials were good in theory, but they did a piss-poor fucking job of actually handing out justice to the murderous scum who helped make the genocidal intents of the European Axis powers a reality.

Torrocca wrote:

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
If you know literally anything about Nazi Germany you would know Himmler tried to give the rank to everyone to further expand the SS's power and influence lol

That rank was only given to a select few people in Nazi Germany's time.

Only a few were dumb enough to accept it, but Himmler did try and offer it to just about every relevant person in Germany. It makes sense when you consider the whole "Nazi Germany was a shitshow of competing factions" thing.

Washington Resistance Army wrote:

Torrocca wrote:
That rank was only given to a select few people in Nazi Germany's time.

Only a few were dumb enough to accept it, but Himmler did try and offer it to just about every relevant person in Germany. It makes sense when you consider the whole "Nazi Germany was a shitshow of competing factions" thing.

Either way, that doesn't make the fact that Hess was practically entirely in the know-how of what the top line of the Nazi Party wanted - particularly regarding Jews, Slavs, etc. - any less true at the end of the day. A plea of ignorance about those things is an utter and absolute lie for a devotee and confidant of Hitler like Hess was.

Hanafuridake wrote:The Nuremberg Trials was tainted because of the wholly spurious charge of “crimes against peace.” Trying and hanging Nazis for the Holocaust and Generalplan ost were good. Although it could probably have happened a lot faster were it not for them being charged for invading neutral countries, by representatives of the British Empire and Soviet Union of all peoples. There's also the opportuness of the whole affair. The Italian high command who authorized war crimes were mostly let off the hook because of the need for Anti-Communist leaders in post-war Italy.

I'm not going to lose any sleep for dead Nazis, but aspects of the trials leave a bad taste in my mouth from their sheer hypocrisy and lack of moral consistency.

From a legalistic POV, Nuremberg was a disaster, with everything except for one precedent: The Nuremberg defense.

Hanafuridake wrote:The Nuremberg Trials was tainted because of the wholly spurious charge of “crimes against peace.” Trying and hanging Nazis for the Holocaust and Generalplan ost were good. Although it could probably have happened a lot faster were it not for them being charged for invading neutral countries, by representatives of the British Empire and Soviet Union of all peoples. There's also the opportuness of the whole affair. The Italian high command who authorized war crimes were mostly let off the hook because of the need for Anti-Communist leaders in post-war Italy.

I'm not going to lose any sleep for dead Nazis, but aspects of the trials leave a bad taste in my mouth from their sheer hypocrisy and lack of moral consistency.

The Nazis got punished, as they should have been, but if I recall even Goering made fun of the proceedings a bit.

Turns out Hess was a bit of a nutcase with an inferiority complex.

Churchill even considered Hess a medical case instead of a criminal case.

Luminesa wrote:

Hanafuridake wrote:The Nuremberg Trials was tainted because of the wholly spurious charge of “crimes against peace.” Trying and hanging Nazis for the Holocaust and Generalplan ost were good. Although it could probably have happened a lot faster were it not for them being charged for invading neutral countries, by representatives of the British Empire and Soviet Union of all peoples. There's also the opportuness of the whole affair. The Italian high command who authorized war crimes were mostly let off the hook because of the need for Anti-Communist leaders in post-war Italy.

I'm not going to lose any sleep for dead Nazis, but aspects of the trials leave a bad taste in my mouth from their sheer hypocrisy and lack of moral consistency.

The Nazis got punished, as they should have been, but if I recall even Goering made fun of the proceedings a bit.

Even the Chief Justice of the United States Supreme Court mocked Nuremburg. Sure you could say the Nazis deserved it or whatnot but legally it was a complete joke.

Washington Resistance Army wrote:

Luminesa wrote:The Nazis got punished, as they should have been, but if I recall even Goering made fun of the proceedings a bit.

Even the Chief Justice of the United States Supreme Court mocked Nuremburg. Sure you could say the Nazis deserved it or whatnot but legally it was a complete joke.

Oh I know, just recalling something I read on TvTropes.

I spent way too much time on that website, dun hurt me.

Luminesa wrote:

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Even the Chief Justice of the United States Supreme Court mocked Nuremburg. Sure you could say the Nazis deserved it or whatnot but legally it was a complete joke.

Oh I know, just recalling something I read on TvTropes.

I spent way too much time on that website, dun hurt me.

ngl TvTropes is 10/10, would recommend for just about anything

I think the Nazis should have been put into life imprisonment, but that's because I'm against capital punishment.

Washington Resistance Army wrote:

Luminesa wrote:Oh I know, just recalling something I read on TvTropes.

I spent way too much time on that website, dun hurt me.

ngl TvTropes is 10/10, would recommend for just about anything

Very true, gives a really nice summary of WW2 even.

Jack Thomas Lang wrote:I think the Nazis should have been put into life imprisonment, but that's because I'm against capital punishment.

Nazis should’ve had like Quisling.

Kowani wrote:Nazis should’ve had like Quisling.

I'm against the firing squad too.

Luminesa wrote:

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Even the Chief Justice of the United States Supreme Court mocked Nuremburg. Sure you could say the Nazis deserved it or whatnot but legally it was a complete joke.

Oh I know, just recalling something I read on TvTropes.

I spent way too much time on that website, dun hurt me.

Ah, so you’re a woman of culture and refinement! Delightful!

But yes, jurisprudence-wise the Nuremberg trials were highly flawed, to say the least.

Jack Thomas Lang wrote:

Kowani wrote:Nazis should’ve had like Quisling.

I'm against the firing squad too.

I meant reinstate and then ban the Death Penalty just for them, but that’s nice to know…?

The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord wrote:

Luminesa wrote:Oh I know, just recalling something I read on TvTropes.

I spent way too much time on that website, dun hurt me.

Ah, so you’re a woman of culture and refinement! Delightful!

But yes, jurisprudence-wise the Nuremberg trials were highly flawed, to say the least.

TvTropes helped me practice my English, s’alright in my book.

The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord wrote:

Luminesa wrote:Oh I know, just recalling something I read on TvTropes.

I spent way too much time on that website, dun hurt me.

Ah, so you’re a woman of culture and refinement! Delightful!

But yes, jurisprudence-wise the Nuremberg trials were highly flawed, to say the least.

Me:

Kowani wrote:I meant reinstate and then ban the Death Penalty just for them, but that’s nice to know…?

Quisling was shot, that's what I thought you meant.

Torrocca wrote:

Nova Cyberia wrote:
Lol. Like I said, he had bo involvement with the Army or the planning and implementation of Operation Barbarossa.

I love how you think this somehow means he was ignorant of Lebensraum and the implications that came with it lmao. Or that he had no knowledge of Barbarossa, considering that he fucking went to broker peace with the British specifically to prevent a two-front war in order to make the Nazis' goals more easily attainable.

I like how you ignored these bits.

As the war progressed, Hitler's attention became focused on foreign affairs and the conduct of the war. Hess, who was not directly engaged in these endeavours, became increasingly sidelined from the affairs of the nation and from Hitler's attention; Bormann had successfully supplanted Hess in many of his duties and usurped his position at Hitler's side.

He wasn't involved in military matters. He knew of Operation Barbarossa, but was not involved in it.

Also, the SS controlled the police. Himmler was Reichsführer and Chief of German Police and they were responsible for many of the anti-Semitic acts against Jews. Hess had no control over the police.

"Hess was given the rank of Obergruppenführer in the Schutzstaffel (SS) in 1934, the second-highest SS rank.[50]"

Hmm.

I think WRA answered this well enough.

Again, I'm not saying Hess was totally innocent. I'm just saying what happened to him was ridiculous and what you're saying about him is bullshit. You just have a bad understanding of history.

The only one here with the shitty understanding of history is you with your Nazi apologia by insinuating that Hess - a member of Adolf Hitler's inner circle and a close friend and confidant of Hitler and a man almost at the top of the Nazi Party - didn't know jack shit about the Nazi's plans regarding Jews, Slavs, etc.

You haven't actually offered any proof, so I'm afraid I'm going to have to conclude that you don't know what you're talking about.

Nova Cyberia wrote:

Torrocca wrote:
I love how you think this somehow means he was ignorant of Lebensraum and the implications that came with it lmao. Or that he had no knowledge of Barbarossa, considering that he fucking went to broker peace with the British specifically to prevent a two-front war in order to make the Nazis' goals more easily attainable.

I like how you ignored these bits.

As the war progressed, Hitler's attention became focused on foreign affairs and the conduct of the war. Hess, who was not directly engaged in these endeavours, became increasingly sidelined from the affairs of the nation and from Hitler's attention; Bormann had successfully supplanted Hess in many of his duties and usurped his position at Hitler's side.

He wasn't involved in military matters. He knew of Operation Barbarossa, but was not involved in it.

Funny, that, but I don't recall ever saying he was involved in Barbarossa.

"Hess was given the rank of Obergruppenführer in the Schutzstaffel (SS) in 1934, the second-highest SS rank.[50]"

Hmm.

I think WRA answered this well enough.

The only one here with the shitty understanding of history is you with your Nazi apologia by insinuating that Hess - a member of Adolf Hitler's inner circle and a close friend and confidant of Hitler and a man almost at the top of the Nazi Party - didn't know jack shit about the Nazi's plans regarding Jews, Slavs, etc.

You haven't actually offered any proof, so I'm afraid I'm going to have to conclude that you don't know what you're talking about.

>"You haven't offered any proof"

Lmao.

Torrocca wrote:

Nova Cyberia wrote:I like how you ignored these bits.

He wasn't involved in military matters. He knew of Operation Barbarossa, but was not involved in it.

Funny, that, but I don't recall ever saying he was involved in Barbarossa.

You said he knew of Hitler's plans for Lebensraum in Russia. I don't see how Hess would know that unless he was involved in planning Operation Barbarossa or Generalplan Ost, which he wasn't.

I think WRA answered this well enough.


You haven't actually offered any proof, so I'm afraid I'm going to have to conclude that you don't know what you're talking about.

>"You haven't offered any proof"

Lmao.

You haven't. Your evidence debunks itself, as I've showed. And now you're resorting to childish whining because you have nothing else.