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Right-Wing Discussion Thread XVI: Making Things Right Again

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Do you consider nationalism and patriotism synoymous?

Yes- I am a nationalist and a patriot
97
26%
No- I am a nationalist and a patriot
42
11%
No- I am a nationalist, not a patriot
34
9%
No- I am a patriot, not a nationalist
126
34%
Yes- I am neither a nationalist nor a patriot
15
4%
No- I am neither a nationalist nor a patriot
54
15%
 
Total votes : 368

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The South Falls
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Posts: 11702
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The South Falls » Sun May 19, 2019 11:27 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
The South Falls wrote:Internment camps... yea. Racism... yea. I think I should have thought before saying that.


Failed economic policies that literally caused a recession during the depression, taking a shredder to the constitution and bill of rights, using the outbreak of WW2 to immediately go after and imprison his critics and political opponents, willfully and purposefully throwing out established precedent for his office, bullying the judicial system to uphold unconstitutional ideas etc etc. He did a whole lot more wrong than just internment.

1. Alright I concede that one.
2. There was no established precedent. There was nothing to shred.
3. Where?
4. Where?

Excuse my ignorance then, I've never once heard of 3 and 4.
This is an MT nation that reflects some of my beliefs, trade deals and debate always welcome! Call me TeaSF. A level 8, according to This Index.


Political Compass Results:

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Kowani
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Posts: 9354
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Sun May 19, 2019 11:28 am

The South Falls wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Failed economic policies that literally caused a recession during the depression, taking a shredder to the constitution and bill of rights, using the outbreak of WW2 to immediately go after and imprison his critics and political opponents, willfully and purposefully throwing out established precedent for his office, bullying the judicial system to uphold unconstitutional ideas etc etc. He did a whole lot more wrong than just internment.

1. Alright I concede that one.
2. There was no established precedent. There was nothing to shred.
3. Where?
4. Where?

Excuse my ignorance then, I've never once heard of 3 and 4.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judicia ... ll_of_1937
Narcissistic (Hedonistic) Nihilist. Yes, I am edgy. I know.
Dorgival R. Seč of the NS Parliament!
Atheist and still proud of it. Technophile to the extreme.
Post-Capitalist, Post-Nationalist. Go beyond.
Oh, and a Pragmatist. Somehow.
Rights are functionally just privileges society has deemed important.
Neanderthaland wrote:
Christian Confederation wrote:Contraception can't fail if you don't have sex in term no unwanted pregnancy.

Your entire religion is based on the idea that this isn't true.

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Nova Cyberia
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Founded: May 06, 2019
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Nova Cyberia » Sun May 19, 2019 11:28 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
The South Falls wrote:Internment camps... yea. Racism... yea. I think I should have thought before saying that.


Failed economic policies that literally caused a recession during the depression, taking a shredder to the constitution and bill of rights, using the outbreak of WW2 to immediately go after and imprison his critics and political opponents, willfully and purposefully throwing out established precedent for his office, bullying the judicial system to uphold unconstitutional ideas etc etc. He did a whole lot more wrong than just internment.

Yeah, this is why I don't really care much for FDR aside from his wartime leadership. He was the closest the US ever came to a dictatorship.
Yes, yes, I'm racist and fascist because I disagree with you. Can we skip that part? I've heard it a million times before and I guarantee it won't be any different when you do it.
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Washington Resistance Army
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Posts: 40663
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Sun May 19, 2019 11:29 am

The South Falls wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Failed economic policies that literally caused a recession during the depression, taking a shredder to the constitution and bill of rights, using the outbreak of WW2 to immediately go after and imprison his critics and political opponents, willfully and purposefully throwing out established precedent for his office, bullying the judicial system to uphold unconstitutional ideas etc etc. He did a whole lot more wrong than just internment.

1. Alright I concede that one.
2. There was no established precedent. There was nothing to shred.
3. Where?
4. Where?

Excuse my ignorance then, I've never once heard of 3 and 4.


You're gonna have to actually edit my post and number the points you want a response to lol

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The South Falls
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Posts: 11702
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The South Falls » Sun May 19, 2019 11:32 am

Kowani wrote:
The South Falls wrote:1. Alright I concede that one.
2. There was no established precedent. There was nothing to shred.
3. Where?
4. Where?

Excuse my ignorance then, I've never once heard of 3 and 4.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judicia ... ll_of_1937

Alright, yea I concede that one as well.
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
The South Falls wrote:1. Alright I concede that one.
2. There was no established precedent. There was nothing to shred.
3. Where?
4. Where?

Excuse my ignorance then, I've never once heard of 3 and 4.


You're gonna have to actually edit my post and number the points you want a response to lol
This is an MT nation that reflects some of my beliefs, trade deals and debate always welcome! Call me TeaSF. A level 8, according to This Index.


Political Compass Results:

Economic: -6.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.28
I make dumb jokes. I'm really serious about that.

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The South Falls
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Posts: 11702
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The South Falls » Sun May 19, 2019 11:34 am

I wouldn't say FDR was the closest we came to dictatorship. That would probably go to, again, Jackson. He straight ignored multiple supreme court decisions, including Worcester v Georgia, for his own benefit.
This is an MT nation that reflects some of my beliefs, trade deals and debate always welcome! Call me TeaSF. A level 8, according to This Index.


Political Compass Results:

Economic: -6.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.28
I make dumb jokes. I'm really serious about that.

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Camelone
Minister
 
Posts: 3458
Founded: Feb 20, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Camelone » Sun May 19, 2019 11:34 am

Epicurustan wrote:
Nova Cyberia wrote:Ideologically he was garbage.

He was a good wartime president. That much can't be denied, and I have a lasting respect for him for that reason. But he had too many failings in my eyes.

Good thing ideology's don't matter much when politics gets practical.

Camelone wrote:I was talking about philosophy and theology not the material sciences which while noble in discovering the workings of the creation of God are not in need of any logical razors except for Occam’s.

That wasn’t my point at all, my point was that it doesn’t take into account what evidence is within the philosophical, and by extension theological, fields.

Again my point stands, the reason is that science doesn't care about that which is not empirical by scientific objective standards. A scientist who respond with ''yeah no'' is completely logical.

I’m not talking about science here, I could have sworn I made that clear by constantly talking about philosophy and theology. Not all knowledge stems from the sciences.
Dissenting High Church Episcopalian, American Jacobite with a Byzantine flair for extra spice
I am... the lurker!
Ave Rex Christus!

Pro: The Social Kingship of Christ, Society of King Charles the Martyr, Corporatism, Distributism, Tradition based Christianity, High Tory, Hierarchy, vanguard republicanism, Official Nationality
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The South Falls
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Posts: 11702
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The South Falls » Sun May 19, 2019 11:34 am

Also shit I forgot the replier can't see the third post. Just quote it please and look.
This is an MT nation that reflects some of my beliefs, trade deals and debate always welcome! Call me TeaSF. A level 8, according to This Index.


Political Compass Results:

Economic: -6.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.28
I make dumb jokes. I'm really serious about that.

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Kowani
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9354
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Sun May 19, 2019 11:36 am

Camelone wrote:
Epicurustan wrote:Good thing ideology's don't matter much when politics gets practical.


Again my point stands, the reason is that science doesn't care about that which is not empirical by scientific objective standards. A scientist who respond with ''yeah no'' is completely logical.

I’m not talking about science here, I could have sworn I made that clear by constantly talking about philosophy and theology. Not all knowledge stems from the sciences.

Unprovable knowledge is logically unsound, and as such, cannot be used to build a valid system.
Narcissistic (Hedonistic) Nihilist. Yes, I am edgy. I know.
Dorgival R. Seč of the NS Parliament!
Atheist and still proud of it. Technophile to the extreme.
Post-Capitalist, Post-Nationalist. Go beyond.
Oh, and a Pragmatist. Somehow.
Rights are functionally just privileges society has deemed important.
Neanderthaland wrote:
Christian Confederation wrote:Contraception can't fail if you don't have sex in term no unwanted pregnancy.

Your entire religion is based on the idea that this isn't true.

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Camelone
Minister
 
Posts: 3458
Founded: Feb 20, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Camelone » Sun May 19, 2019 11:38 am

Oh speaking of Jackson I’m curious of RWDT’s opinion about the US Supreme Court. Does the Supreme Court constitutionally have the right to judicial review or is it an illegally assumed power of the courts?
Dissenting High Church Episcopalian, American Jacobite with a Byzantine flair for extra spice
I am... the lurker!
Ave Rex Christus!

Pro: The Social Kingship of Christ, Society of King Charles the Martyr, Corporatism, Distributism, Tradition based Christianity, High Tory, Hierarchy, vanguard republicanism, Official Nationality
Neutral: Constitutions, Guild Socialism, Libertarianism, Constitution Party, monarchism
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Washington Resistance Army
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Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Sun May 19, 2019 11:39 am

The South Falls wrote:Also shit I forgot the replier can't see the third post. Just quote it please and look.


Using the IRS to attack opponents

Kowani already posted a handy dandy link for the judicial stuff, needless to say FDR used that to massively and unconstitutionally expand his administrations power.

See the Smith Act of 1940 for him imprisoning political opponents. Despite the fact that it was supposedly passed only to apply to people who called for the violent overthrowing of the United State government in reality it was used to go after anyone opposed to FDR or the war effort and culminated in the Sedition Trial of 1944.

He also threw out the two term precedent that later had to be enshrined in the constitution specifically because of people like FDR.

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Camelone
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Founded: Feb 20, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Camelone » Sun May 19, 2019 11:40 am

Kowani wrote:
Camelone wrote:I’m not talking about science here, I could have sworn I made that clear by constantly talking about philosophy and theology. Not all knowledge stems from the sciences.

Unprovable knowledge is logically unsound, and as such, cannot be used to build a valid system.

So everything should be based upon the findings of scientists and researchers? What do you believe in, if I remember correctly you said you are a nihilist correct?
Dissenting High Church Episcopalian, American Jacobite with a Byzantine flair for extra spice
I am... the lurker!
Ave Rex Christus!

Pro: The Social Kingship of Christ, Society of King Charles the Martyr, Corporatism, Distributism, Tradition based Christianity, High Tory, Hierarchy, vanguard republicanism, Official Nationality
Neutral: Constitutions, Guild Socialism, Libertarianism, Constitution Party, monarchism
Against: Communism, socialism, SJWs, materialism, the Democratic Republican Uniparty, material Egalitarianism
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Results

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Nova Cyberia
Minister
 
Posts: 2907
Founded: May 06, 2019
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Nova Cyberia » Sun May 19, 2019 11:43 am

Nuremburg was a kangaroo court, tbh.
Yes, yes, I'm racist and fascist because I disagree with you. Can we skip that part? I've heard it a million times before and I guarantee it won't be any different when you do it.
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Washington Resistance Army
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Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Sun May 19, 2019 11:44 am

Nova Cyberia wrote:Nuremburg was a kangaroo court, tbh.


Potentially unpopular opinion but from a legal standpoint I 110% agree with this claim. Even the Chief Justice of the US openly called it a sham.

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Kowani
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Posts: 9354
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Sun May 19, 2019 11:44 am

Camelone wrote:Oh speaking of Jackson I’m curious of RWDT’s opinion about the US Supreme Court. Does the Supreme Court constitutionally have the right to judicial review or is it an illegally assumed power of the courts?

It’s not explicitly written in, but it seems to have been extrapolated from somewhat. I’m not a legal scholar, so…

Camelone wrote:
Kowani wrote:Unprovable knowledge is logically unsound, and as such, cannot be used to build a valid system.

So everything should be based upon the findings of scientists and researchers? What do you believe in, if I remember correctly you said you are a nihilist correct?

I am a nihilist. But. Knowledge should be based on what is provable, not ideology. Because morality is unprovable, it cannot exist in any valid sense.
Narcissistic (Hedonistic) Nihilist. Yes, I am edgy. I know.
Dorgival R. Seč of the NS Parliament!
Atheist and still proud of it. Technophile to the extreme.
Post-Capitalist, Post-Nationalist. Go beyond.
Oh, and a Pragmatist. Somehow.
Rights are functionally just privileges society has deemed important.
Neanderthaland wrote:
Christian Confederation wrote:Contraception can't fail if you don't have sex in term no unwanted pregnancy.

Your entire religion is based on the idea that this isn't true.

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Nova Cyberia
Minister
 
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Founded: May 06, 2019
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Nova Cyberia » Sun May 19, 2019 11:48 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Nova Cyberia wrote:Nuremburg was a kangaroo court, tbh.


Potentially unpopular opinion but from a legal standpoint I 110% agree with this claim. Even the Chief Justice of the US openly called it a sham.

When someone like Rudolf Hess who actually went to the UK to try to make peace with the British after WW2 begun can get handed down a life sentence then it's obvious it was a sham.
Last edited by Nova Cyberia on Sun May 19, 2019 11:49 am, edited 2 times in total.
Yes, yes, I'm racist and fascist because I disagree with you. Can we skip that part? I've heard it a million times before and I guarantee it won't be any different when you do it.
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Torrocca
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Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Sun May 19, 2019 11:51 am

Nova Cyberia wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Potentially unpopular opinion but from a legal standpoint I 110% agree with this claim. Even the Chief Justice of the US openly called it a sham.

When someone like Rudolf Hess who actually went to the UK to try to make peace with the British after WW2 begun can get handed down a life sentence then it's obvious it was a sham.


Rudolf Hess deserved it tbh, considering he knowingly went there in order to get the British off Nazi Germany's back so they could continue their genocidal activities entirely unhindered.

The rest of the Nazis should've gotten similar or worse.
Anarchy's my name AND my game. RAINBOW! Revolutionary Catalonia and Revolutionary Rojava Forever! ^_^
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen. Now known as God-Empress Torra.
"Al fascismo no se le discute, se le destruye/Fascism is not discussed, it is destroyed." - Buenaventura Durruti
You probably have my idea of Communism wrong.
"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
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Camelone
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Founded: Feb 20, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Camelone » Sun May 19, 2019 11:54 am

Kowani wrote:
Camelone wrote:Oh speaking of Jackson I’m curious of RWDT’s opinion about the US Supreme Court. Does the Supreme Court constitutionally have the right to judicial review or is it an illegally assumed power of the courts?

It’s not explicitly written in, but it seems to have been extrapolated from somewhat. I’m not a legal scholar, so…

Camelone wrote:So everything should be based upon the findings of scientists and researchers? What do you believe in, if I remember correctly you said you are a nihilist correct?

I am a nihilist. But. Knowledge should be based on what is provable, not ideology. Because morality is unprovable, it cannot exist in any valid sense.

From what I’ve gathered the judicial doctrine of judicial review came about from the Supreme Court case Marbury v Madison but I’ve always found the logic a little shaky constitutionally.

So there is no way to attain the good life, only maximize our own personal pleasure? Nihilism has always felt to me the philosophy of throwing your hands up and saying I give up in the pursuit of truth. The entire pursuit is about struggling, reflection, challenging, and expanding ones ability to find what it means to attain the good life and the means to order society in a way to promote the good life.
Dissenting High Church Episcopalian, American Jacobite with a Byzantine flair for extra spice
I am... the lurker!
Ave Rex Christus!

Pro: The Social Kingship of Christ, Society of King Charles the Martyr, Corporatism, Distributism, Tradition based Christianity, High Tory, Hierarchy, vanguard republicanism, Official Nationality
Neutral: Constitutions, Guild Socialism, Libertarianism, Constitution Party, monarchism
Against: Communism, socialism, SJWs, materialism, the Democratic Republican Uniparty, material Egalitarianism
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Nova Cyberia
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Posts: 2907
Founded: May 06, 2019
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Nova Cyberia » Sun May 19, 2019 11:54 am

Torrocca wrote:
Nova Cyberia wrote:When someone like Rudolf Hess who actually went to the UK to try to make peace with the British after WW2 begun can get handed down a life sentence then it's obvious it was a sham.


Rudolf Hess deserved it tbh, considering he knowingly went there in order to get the British off Nazi Germany's back so they could continue their genocidal activities entirely unhindered.

The rest of the Nazis should've gotten similar or worse.

He was convicted of crimes against peace. Crimes against peace... for attempting to negotiate peace?
Yes, yes, I'm racist and fascist because I disagree with you. Can we skip that part? I've heard it a million times before and I guarantee it won't be any different when you do it.
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Washington Resistance Army
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Posts: 40663
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Sun May 19, 2019 11:56 am

I actually don't think Hess deserved the treatment he got. He was rendered powerless long before the Nazis got up to any serious shit so to hold him accountable for it feels like a real miscarriage of justice, especially when actual monsters like Speer got away with it.

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Nova Cyberia
Minister
 
Posts: 2907
Founded: May 06, 2019
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Nova Cyberia » Sun May 19, 2019 12:00 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:I actually don't think Hess deserved the treatment he got. He was rendered powerless long before the Nazis got up to any serious shit so to hold him accountable for it feels like a real miscarriage of justice, especially when actual monsters like Speer got away with it.

Speer was a monster?

Generally don't know much about him aside from his writings, tbh.
Yes, yes, I'm racist and fascist because I disagree with you. Can we skip that part? I've heard it a million times before and I guarantee it won't be any different when you do it.
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Kowani
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9354
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Sun May 19, 2019 12:00 pm

Camelone wrote:
Kowani wrote:It’s not explicitly written in, but it seems to have been extrapolated from somewhat. I’m not a legal scholar, so…


I am a nihilist. But. Knowledge should be based on what is provable, not ideology. Because morality is unprovable, it cannot exist in any valid sense.

From what I’ve gathered the judicial doctrine of judicial review came about from the Supreme Court case Marbury v Madison but I’ve always found the logic a little shaky constitutionally.
Well, yeah. I just have no idea how they got there. My knowledge of US Law is quite limited.
Camelone wrote:So there is no way to attain the good life, only maximize our own personal pleasure? Nihilism has always felt to me the philosophy of throwing your hands up and saying I give up in the pursuit of truth. The entire pursuit is about struggling, reflection, challenging, and expanding ones ability to find what it means to attain the good life and the means to order society in a way to promote the good life.

I will quote my response to a TG asking me about my nihilism.
I suppose the thing is that I don’t see nihilism as opposed to optimism. Yeah, on the cosmic scale, nothing we do matters. We die, our descendants’ll die, the sun’ll die, and the universe will eventually become uninhabitable. But we don’t experience things on the cosmic scale, we experience them on the lifetime scale. Our experiences, because of the fact that we can experience them, have inherent value to us. Life is not inherently suffering and pain, it is just life. What you choose to take away from those experiences is up to you. You have one life, one attempt. So, why not make it as enjoyable as possible?

(No longer quoting)
Nihilism is not the search for truth, but rather, the realization and acceptance of that truth, that what we do is not relevant in the long term, but that does not mean that it is meaningless. The good life is the one you live, no more, no less.
Narcissistic (Hedonistic) Nihilist. Yes, I am edgy. I know.
Dorgival R. Seč of the NS Parliament!
Atheist and still proud of it. Technophile to the extreme.
Post-Capitalist, Post-Nationalist. Go beyond.
Oh, and a Pragmatist. Somehow.
Rights are functionally just privileges society has deemed important.
Neanderthaland wrote:
Christian Confederation wrote:Contraception can't fail if you don't have sex in term no unwanted pregnancy.

Your entire religion is based on the idea that this isn't true.

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Washington Resistance Army
Post Czar
 
Posts: 40663
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Sun May 19, 2019 12:02 pm

Nova Cyberia wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:I actually don't think Hess deserved the treatment he got. He was rendered powerless long before the Nazis got up to any serious shit so to hold him accountable for it feels like a real miscarriage of justice, especially when actual monsters like Speer got away with it.

Speer was a monster?

Generally don't know much about him aside from his writings, tbh.


Oh absolutely, arguably one of the worst figures in the Third Reich imo. Despite his claims of not knowing about the Holocaust he personally wrote off the planned upgrades that turned Auschwitz from a concentration camp into a death camp, he was happy to willfully enslave vast numbers of people and work them to death for the war effort, at least on one occasion he personally complained to Himmler that the conditions at Mauthausen camp were too humane etc etc. It's a joke that he was let go.

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Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 24439
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Sun May 19, 2019 12:05 pm

Nova Cyberia wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
Rudolf Hess deserved it tbh, considering he knowingly went there in order to get the British off Nazi Germany's back so they could continue their genocidal activities entirely unhindered.

The rest of the Nazis should've gotten similar or worse.

He was convicted of crimes against peace. Crimes against peace... for attempting to negotiate peace?


For attempting to further Nazi Germany's goals of genocide by attempting to get the British out of the war.
Anarchy's my name AND my game. RAINBOW! Revolutionary Catalonia and Revolutionary Rojava Forever! ^_^
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen. Now known as God-Empress Torra.
"Al fascismo no se le discute, se le destruye/Fascism is not discussed, it is destroyed." - Buenaventura Durruti
You probably have my idea of Communism wrong.
"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns! They/Them/Their are perfectly acceptable alternatives as well :3

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North German Realm
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1826
Founded: Jan 27, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby North German Realm » Sun May 19, 2019 12:22 pm

Nova Cyberia wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
Rudolf Hess deserved it tbh, considering he knowingly went there in order to get the British off Nazi Germany's back so they could continue their genocidal activities entirely unhindered.

The rest of the Nazis should've gotten similar or worse.

He was convicted of crimes against peace. Crimes against peace... for attempting to negotiate peace?

Considering he was specifically trying to get the UK off Germany's back so the Germans could focus on what was going to be a war of exterminations? Yes.
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Norddeutschland

As The Great War wages, North Germans lose six men for every meter of land they reclaim from Allied Occupation!
Overview || Kaiser | Chancellor | Legislature | Military || News: 19 January, 1909

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