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Right-Wing Discussion Thread XVI: Making Things Right Again

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Do you consider nationalism and patriotism synoymous?

Yes- I am a nationalist and a patriot
115
26%
No- I am a nationalist and a patriot
52
12%
No- I am a nationalist, not a patriot
43
10%
No- I am a patriot, not a nationalist
147
33%
Yes- I am neither a nationalist nor a patriot
18
4%
No- I am neither a nationalist nor a patriot
68
15%
 
Total votes : 443

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Duhon
Senator
 
Posts: 3986
Founded: Nov 21, 2018
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Duhon » Sun May 19, 2019 2:12 am

Asherahan wrote:At the very least germany should have been broken up to into smaller states and not allowed to be unified like Austria Hungary.


Germany got that treatment for almost 50 years.

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Asherahan
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Posts: 1939
Founded: Dec 08, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Asherahan » Sun May 19, 2019 2:15 am

Duhon wrote:
Asherahan wrote:At the very least germany should have been broken up to into smaller states and not allowed to be unified like Austria Hungary.


Germany got that treatment for almost 50 years.

Way smaller states and they should have lost land. And not allow them to reunify ever.
Last edited by Asherahan on Sun May 19, 2019 2:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Duhon
Senator
 
Posts: 3986
Founded: Nov 21, 2018
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Duhon » Sun May 19, 2019 2:19 am

Asherahan wrote:
Duhon wrote:
Germany got that treatment for almost 50 years.

Way smaller states and they should have lost land. And not allow them to reunify ever.


Way to make a Poland out of Germany, with just as much justification.

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Asherahan
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Posts: 1939
Founded: Dec 08, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Asherahan » Sun May 19, 2019 2:22 am

Duhon wrote:
Asherahan wrote:Way smaller states and they should have lost land. And not allow them to reunify ever.


Way to make a Poland out of Germany, with just as much justification.

There was less justification when we did it to austria hungary. And let me remind you they didn't murder millions.
Status: Serial Forum Lurker
Ideologically a Left Statist
Who Likes: Single Party Democracy | Democratic Centralism | State Capitalism | Blanquism | State Atheism | Sex Positive Feminism & Socialist Feminism
Former Resident of NSG CTALNH here since 2011 - Add like 10000 to my post number.
Political Stances

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The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7788
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Sun May 19, 2019 2:44 am

Conserative Morality wrote:
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:I do not see how that's relevant. (Although, personally I don't think anything should be a capital crime, but that's beside the point).

My point is that current law does not dictate justice; current law is simply the primary conduit for justice.

When I said that supporting genocide was not a capital crime, I assumed "nor should it be" went without saying.
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Direct Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Psychedelic Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, Non-Market-Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Macs, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Economic: 0.5
Social: -8
I'm an 18 year old Australian who tries to think about things but fails, as we all do. I'll regret this in 2 years tops.

I think I have gender dysphoria so I'd prefer you use she/her pronouns on me. If not, he/him'll do.

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Totally Not OEP
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Posts: 1940
Founded: Mar 30, 2019
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Totally Not OEP » Sun May 19, 2019 2:46 am

Torrocca wrote:
Jack Thomas Lang wrote:Too much damn work for too little gain.


Took a minute, tops.

See how that post OEP quoted says nothing about shooting and killing Nazis? :3


You conveniently left out the post where I point blank asked you how else you expected to kill them, to which you completely side stepped. It's also incredibly funny that, for someone who always attempts to subscribe motives to my own posts, yours are somehow immune to that.
Last edited by Totally Not OEP on Sun May 19, 2019 2:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
I'm definitely not OEP. I definitely don't advocate for annexing Mexico and establishing a National Syndicalist state.

True it was bad, but could've been worse
I'm ridin' a Hellcat, not a hearse
Took over at home, then jumped off the curb
Now all of my shows, they word 4 word
Broke so long, thought I was cursed

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Totally Not OEP
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Posts: 1940
Founded: Mar 30, 2019
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Totally Not OEP » Sun May 19, 2019 2:48 am

Tbh after 1968 I have more sympathy for East Germany than West.
I'm definitely not OEP. I definitely don't advocate for annexing Mexico and establishing a National Syndicalist state.

True it was bad, but could've been worse
I'm ridin' a Hellcat, not a hearse
Took over at home, then jumped off the curb
Now all of my shows, they word 4 word
Broke so long, thought I was cursed

User avatar
The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7788
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Sun May 19, 2019 2:52 am

Totally Not OEP wrote:Tbh after 1968 I have more sympathy for East Germany than West.

What happened in 1968?
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Direct Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Psychedelic Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, Non-Market-Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Macs, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Economic: 0.5
Social: -8
I'm an 18 year old Australian who tries to think about things but fails, as we all do. I'll regret this in 2 years tops.

I think I have gender dysphoria so I'd prefer you use she/her pronouns on me. If not, he/him'll do.

User avatar
Totally Not OEP
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1940
Founded: Mar 30, 2019
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Totally Not OEP » Sun May 19, 2019 2:54 am

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
Totally Not OEP wrote:Tbh after 1968 I have more sympathy for East Germany than West.

What happened in 1968?


The '68 Movement.
I'm definitely not OEP. I definitely don't advocate for annexing Mexico and establishing a National Syndicalist state.

True it was bad, but could've been worse
I'm ridin' a Hellcat, not a hearse
Took over at home, then jumped off the curb
Now all of my shows, they word 4 word
Broke so long, thought I was cursed

User avatar
The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7788
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Sun May 19, 2019 2:55 am

Totally Not OEP wrote:
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:What happened in 1968?


The '68 Movement.

What was wrong with the 68 movement that wasn't wrong with the GDR?
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Direct Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Psychedelic Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, Non-Market-Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Macs, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Economic: 0.5
Social: -8
I'm an 18 year old Australian who tries to think about things but fails, as we all do. I'll regret this in 2 years tops.

I think I have gender dysphoria so I'd prefer you use she/her pronouns on me. If not, he/him'll do.

User avatar
Totally Not OEP
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1940
Founded: Mar 30, 2019
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Totally Not OEP » Sun May 19, 2019 2:56 am

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
Totally Not OEP wrote:
The '68 Movement.

What was wrong with the 68 movement that wasn't wrong with the GDR?


Review the societies in question.
I'm definitely not OEP. I definitely don't advocate for annexing Mexico and establishing a National Syndicalist state.

True it was bad, but could've been worse
I'm ridin' a Hellcat, not a hearse
Took over at home, then jumped off the curb
Now all of my shows, they word 4 word
Broke so long, thought I was cursed

User avatar
The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7788
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Sun May 19, 2019 2:57 am

Totally Not OEP wrote:
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:What was wrong with the 68 movement that wasn't wrong with the GDR?


Review the societies in question.

That's not really an answer.
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Direct Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Psychedelic Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, Non-Market-Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Macs, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Economic: 0.5
Social: -8
I'm an 18 year old Australian who tries to think about things but fails, as we all do. I'll regret this in 2 years tops.

I think I have gender dysphoria so I'd prefer you use she/her pronouns on me. If not, he/him'll do.

User avatar
Totally Not OEP
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1940
Founded: Mar 30, 2019
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Totally Not OEP » Sun May 19, 2019 3:02 am

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
Totally Not OEP wrote:
Review the societies in question.

That's not really an answer.


It is when you do as I said.

The 1968 Movement encapsulated the transformation of West Germany into a Bohemian society, as a generation of bourgeois youth far too spoiled for their own good came into power. East Germany avoided this and, for all the criticisms I as a Far Rightist could place upon them, remained fairly Nationalistic, militaristic and resistant to the social values the 1968 Revolution represented. When you delve into the writings of the East Bloc, you see they largely did maintain, at least in part, the traditionalist outlook of Slavic society with regards to social matters.
I'm definitely not OEP. I definitely don't advocate for annexing Mexico and establishing a National Syndicalist state.

True it was bad, but could've been worse
I'm ridin' a Hellcat, not a hearse
Took over at home, then jumped off the curb
Now all of my shows, they word 4 word
Broke so long, thought I was cursed

User avatar
The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7788
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Sun May 19, 2019 3:11 am

Totally Not OEP wrote:
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:That's not really an answer.


It is when you do as I said.

The 1968 Movement encapsulated the transformation of West Germany into a Bohemian society, as a generation of bourgeois youth far too spoiled for their own good came into power. East Germany avoided this and, for all the criticisms I as a Far Rightist could place upon them, remained fairly Nationalistic, militaristic and resistant to the social values the 1968 Revolution represented. When you delve into the writings of the East Bloc, you see they largely did maintain, at least in part, the traditionalist outlook of Slavic society with regards to social matters.

I view militarism and a traditionalist slavic outlook as negatives rather than positives to be honest.
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Direct Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Psychedelic Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, Non-Market-Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Macs, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Economic: 0.5
Social: -8
I'm an 18 year old Australian who tries to think about things but fails, as we all do. I'll regret this in 2 years tops.

I think I have gender dysphoria so I'd prefer you use she/her pronouns on me. If not, he/him'll do.

User avatar
Totally Not OEP
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1940
Founded: Mar 30, 2019
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Totally Not OEP » Sun May 19, 2019 3:13 am

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
Totally Not OEP wrote:
It is when you do as I said.

The 1968 Movement encapsulated the transformation of West Germany into a Bohemian society, as a generation of bourgeois youth far too spoiled for their own good came into power. East Germany avoided this and, for all the criticisms I as a Far Rightist could place upon them, remained fairly Nationalistic, militaristic and resistant to the social values the 1968 Revolution represented. When you delve into the writings of the East Bloc, you see they largely did maintain, at least in part, the traditionalist outlook of Slavic society with regards to social matters.

I view militarism and a traditionalist slavic outlook as negatives rather than positives to be honest.


Of course, but you did ask for my view of it right?
I'm definitely not OEP. I definitely don't advocate for annexing Mexico and establishing a National Syndicalist state.

True it was bad, but could've been worse
I'm ridin' a Hellcat, not a hearse
Took over at home, then jumped off the curb
Now all of my shows, they word 4 word
Broke so long, thought I was cursed

User avatar
The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7788
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Sun May 19, 2019 3:17 am

Totally Not OEP wrote:
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:I view militarism and a traditionalist slavic outlook as negatives rather than positives to be honest.


Of course, but you did ask for my view of it right?

That I did, fair point.
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Direct Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Psychedelic Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, Non-Market-Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Macs, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Economic: 0.5
Social: -8
I'm an 18 year old Australian who tries to think about things but fails, as we all do. I'll regret this in 2 years tops.

I think I have gender dysphoria so I'd prefer you use she/her pronouns on me. If not, he/him'll do.

User avatar
Painisia
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1596
Founded: Nov 02, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Painisia » Sun May 19, 2019 3:17 am

Totally Not OEP wrote:
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:That's not really an answer.


It is when you do as I said.

The 1968 Movement encapsulated the transformation of West Germany into a Bohemian society, as a generation of bourgeois youth far too spoiled for their own good came into power. East Germany avoided this and, for all the criticisms I as a Far Rightist could place upon them, remained fairly Nationalistic, militaristic and resistant to the social values the 1968 Revolution represented. When you delve into the writings of the East Bloc, you see they largely did maintain, at least in part, the traditionalist outlook of Slavic society with regards to social matters.


Well, your waifu GDR became Germany`s poor fever region after the reunification in 1990. But you would find it satisfying that it is in the former lands of the GDR that the Far-Right is experiencing a surge. Alternative für Deutschland is experiencing growth there
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Totally Not OEP
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1940
Founded: Mar 30, 2019
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Totally Not OEP » Sun May 19, 2019 3:21 am

Painisia wrote:
Totally Not OEP wrote:
It is when you do as I said.

The 1968 Movement encapsulated the transformation of West Germany into a Bohemian society, as a generation of bourgeois youth far too spoiled for their own good came into power. East Germany avoided this and, for all the criticisms I as a Far Rightist could place upon them, remained fairly Nationalistic, militaristic and resistant to the social values the 1968 Revolution represented. When you delve into the writings of the East Bloc, you see they largely did maintain, at least in part, the traditionalist outlook of Slavic society with regards to social matters.


Well, your waifu GDR became Germany`s poor fever region after the reunification in 1990. But you would find it satisfying that it is in the former lands of the GDR that the Far-Right is experiencing a surge. Alternative für Deutschland is experiencing growth there


GDR was indeed poor by the end of it, that's what happens when you do Communism kids. My point was more in terms of the social aspect.
I'm definitely not OEP. I definitely don't advocate for annexing Mexico and establishing a National Syndicalist state.

True it was bad, but could've been worse
I'm ridin' a Hellcat, not a hearse
Took over at home, then jumped off the curb
Now all of my shows, they word 4 word
Broke so long, thought I was cursed

User avatar
North German Realm
Minister
 
Posts: 2756
Founded: Jan 27, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby North German Realm » Sun May 19, 2019 5:41 am

Asherahan wrote:
Jack Thomas Lang wrote:Didn't West Germany go easy on former Nazi party members and administrators? If so, seems to have worked out fine.

Turns out Commie propaganda is just that, propaganda. Germany didn't have to initiate Stalinist repression to shut down Nazism.

*AfD exists and Right Wing Germans are still a bunch of pricks trampling over the sovereignty of other countries*

Sure it worked fine.

I mean, if you take a look at the map, the AfD got most of its votes from the East, on both chambers too. One could almost say West Germany did better in expunging right-wing radicalism in its legislative form than the Easterners.
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Novus America
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26585
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Sun May 19, 2019 6:32 am

Asherahan wrote:
Jack Thomas Lang wrote:Didn't West Germany go easy on former Nazi party members and administrators? If so, seems to have worked out fine.

Turns out Commie propaganda is just that, propaganda. Germany didn't have to initiate Stalinist repression to shut down Nazism.

*AfD exists and Right Wing Germans are still a bunch of pricks trampling over the sovereignty of other countries*

Sure it worked fine.


AFD is has some neo-Nazi members and supporters, but is not a Nazi party. Plus very few of its members were actually involved in the Nazi regime, as most people who were are dead by now.

And their stronghold is EAST Germany...
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

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Novus America
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26585
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Sun May 19, 2019 6:33 am

North German Realm wrote:
Asherahan wrote:*AfD exists and Right Wing Germans are still a bunch of pricks trampling over the sovereignty of other countries*

Sure it worked fine.

I mean, if you take a look at the map, the AfD got most of its votes from the East, on both chambers too. One could almost say West Germany did better in expunging right-wing radicalism in its legislative form than the Easterners.


Yes, the bigger failure in that regard was the Soviet puppet government.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

User avatar
Novus America
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26585
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Sun May 19, 2019 6:40 am

Asherahan wrote:
Duhon wrote:
Way to make a Poland out of Germany, with just as much justification.

There was less justification when we did it to austria hungary. And let me remind you they didn't murder millions.


The way we handled the end of WWI was completely wrong.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

User avatar
Hakons
Senator
 
Posts: 4907
Founded: Jul 14, 2015
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Hakons » Sun May 19, 2019 7:09 am

Novus America wrote:
Asherahan wrote:*AfD exists and Right Wing Germans are still a bunch of pricks trampling over the sovereignty of other countries*

Sure it worked fine.


AFD is has some neo-Nazi members and supporters, but is not a Nazi party. Plus very few of its members were actually involved in the Nazi regime, as most people who were are dead by now.

And their stronghold is EAST Germany...


For all the talk about AfD, the CDU/CSU is still the plurality party in nearly every region of Germany, and that's after decades of being in power. As much as right wingers have a low opinion of Merkel and the CDU because of their EU stance, they're a striking example of a long-lasting conservative government.
“That word, ‘conservative,’ is understood by people in different ways. Suppose you say that when we did arithmetic, we learned that two plus two equals four. It’s still the same, so am I then ‘conservative’ for saying so?” - Cardinal Arinze

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LiberNovusAmericae
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5755
Founded: Mar 10, 2018
Left-Leaning College State

Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Sun May 19, 2019 7:16 am

Asherahan wrote:
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:The AfD is pretty small and not explicitly Nazi afaik. And what do you mean when you say "right-wing Germans?"

Truth be told I got a bias against right wing germans because I am a greek.

Well, Greece has its own problems.
Nova Cyberia wrote:Thank you. I appreciate your respect for my low opinion of you.
Call me Liber for short.
Not to be confused with Novus America. We are different people with very different political opinions.

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LiberNovusAmericae
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5755
Founded: Mar 10, 2018
Left-Leaning College State

Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Sun May 19, 2019 7:17 am

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
Asherahan wrote:Truth be told I got a bias against right wing germans because I am a greek.

Arguing that the EU would be less hawkish if Nazi party members were repressed harshly is a big stretch.

This ^^ The EU is not influenced by Nazism.
Nova Cyberia wrote:Thank you. I appreciate your respect for my low opinion of you.
Call me Liber for short.
Not to be confused with Novus America. We are different people with very different political opinions.

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