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Right-Wing Discussion Thread XVI: Making Things Right Again

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Do you consider nationalism and patriotism synoymous?

Yes- I am a nationalist and a patriot
115
26%
No- I am a nationalist and a patriot
52
12%
No- I am a nationalist, not a patriot
43
10%
No- I am a patriot, not a nationalist
147
33%
Yes- I am neither a nationalist nor a patriot
18
4%
No- I am neither a nationalist nor a patriot
68
15%
 
Total votes : 443

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Hanafuridake
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Posts: 3770
Founded: Sep 09, 2018
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Hanafuridake » Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:02 am

North German Realm wrote:
Hanafuridake wrote:
I wasn't aware that there were European daimyo who Muslim immigrants have been convincing to give land away.

The "selling Europeans as slaves", and "burning down churches" parts are also things I wasn't aware of.


In my defense, I didn't want to tackle this while on autopilot from lack of sleep.
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Bienenhalde
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Bienenhalde » Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:02 am

Bear Stearns wrote:converting old churches into mosques


I mean, yes, it is sad that this is happening, but I think the real fault here is with white Europeans who are abandoning God and Christianity in favor of secular materialism. We really need to look into the faults of our own modern society instead of just blaming it all on brown people and immigrants.
Bienenhalde (mostly) represents my real political views.
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Bear Stearns
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Founded: Dec 02, 2018
Corporate Bordello

Postby Bear Stearns » Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:03 am

North German Realm wrote:
Hanafuridake wrote:
I wasn't aware that there were European daimyo who Muslim immigrants have been convincing to give land away.

The "selling Europeans as slaves", and "burning down churches" parts are also things I wasn't aware of.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal
https://www.newsweek.com/spate-attacks-catholic-churches-france-sees-altars-desecrated-christ-statue-1370800
The Bear Stearns Companies, Inc. is a New York-based global investment bank, securities trading and brokerage firm. Its main business areas are capital markets, investment banking, wealth management and global clearing services. Bear Stearns was founded as an equity trading house on May Day 1923 by Joseph Ainslie Bear, Robert B. Stearns and Harold C. Mayer with $500,000 in capital.
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North German Realm
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Capitalist Paradise

Postby North German Realm » Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:04 am

Bienenhalde wrote:
Bear Stearns wrote:converting old churches into mosques


I mean, yes, it is sad that this is happening, but I think the real fault here is with white Europeans who are abandoning God and Christianity in favor of secular materialism. We really need to look into the faults of our own modern society instead of just blaming it all on brown people and immigrants.

The problem isn't that White Europeans are abandoning god and Christianity. The problem is that they're not sticking by their choice "having god and Christianity abandoned in the European societies" when accepting immigrants.
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North Germany
Norddeutschland

North German Realm will go through a massive overhaul in the next few months. Please stand by.
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Norddeutsche Morgenpost: North Germany, France begin evacuating Russia after 78% of Russian industry was transported back home. Russia warned that another invasion will be imminent if all reparations and debts are not paid until 1915. || Former-President Theodore Roosevelt passes away, killed by saloonkeeper John Schrank while on a speech on October 14. || Treaty of the Hague signed between the Pact powers and Yugoslavia. Yugoslavian independence recognized by 8 countries after Yugoslavia revokes claim on Greek Macedonia. || Ulster Covenant defeated in Ulster despite backlash from Protestant Irish.

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Bienenhalde
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Postby Bienenhalde » Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:05 am



Again, this is not necessarily the fault of Muslims. Remember the persecution of Christianity in the French Revolution? Remember the church arsonist Varg Vikernes?
Bienenhalde (mostly) represents my real political views.
https://8values.github.io/results.html?e=75.6&d=68.6&g=38.8&s=45.2
OOC:
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Evil Dictators Happyland
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Evil Dictators Happyland » Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:09 am

Bear Stearns wrote:
North German Realm wrote:The "selling Europeans as slaves", and "burning down churches" parts are also things I wasn't aware of.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal
https://www.newsweek.com/spate-attacks-catholic-churches-france-sees-altars-desecrated-christ-statue-1370800

Do you have any evidence of this being a common thing, or is "it happened once" enough for you?
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North German Realm
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Founded: Jan 27, 2019
Capitalist Paradise

Postby North German Realm » Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:09 am

Bear Stearns wrote:
North German Realm wrote:The "selling Europeans as slaves", and "burning down churches" parts are also things I wasn't aware of.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal
https://www.newsweek.com/spate-attacks-catholic-churches-france-sees-altars-desecrated-christ-statue-1370800
I can't believe I'm defending Muslims on any thread in NSG, but come on.
Ignoring the part that the Muslims' response (as you can see in the wikipedia page you sent me) was actually much more substantial than the response to "Christians literally kidnapped and sent Japanese women to be raped by various people in the Portuguese Colonial Empire", the latter post literally has no mention of "Islam", "Muslim", or anything of the type. In fact, People don't know who's causing the desecrations in the first place. (Actually, Anarchists and Feminists were blamed... for some reason, but nothing substantial). So, do you have anything other than a single event -possibly an exception- and an article that literally doesn't mention any party responsible?
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North Germany
Norddeutschland

North German Realm will go through a massive overhaul in the next few months. Please stand by.
Homepage || Overview | Sovereign | Chancellor | Legislature || The World
23 October, 1912
Norddeutsche Morgenpost: North Germany, France begin evacuating Russia after 78% of Russian industry was transported back home. Russia warned that another invasion will be imminent if all reparations and debts are not paid until 1915. || Former-President Theodore Roosevelt passes away, killed by saloonkeeper John Schrank while on a speech on October 14. || Treaty of the Hague signed between the Pact powers and Yugoslavia. Yugoslavian independence recognized by 8 countries after Yugoslavia revokes claim on Greek Macedonia. || Ulster Covenant defeated in Ulster despite backlash from Protestant Irish.

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Bear Stearns
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Founded: Dec 02, 2018
Corporate Bordello

Postby Bear Stearns » Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:13 am

Evil Dictators Happyland wrote:

Do you have any evidence of this being a common thing, or is "it happened once" enough for you?


1,400 trafficked children is an insane number of people. I'm not sure how that can be ignored (unless you're British police lol).

And the church attacks are certainly not something that happened once.
The Bear Stearns Companies, Inc. is a New York-based global investment bank, securities trading and brokerage firm. Its main business areas are capital markets, investment banking, wealth management and global clearing services. Bear Stearns was founded as an equity trading house on May Day 1923 by Joseph Ainslie Bear, Robert B. Stearns and Harold C. Mayer with $500,000 in capital.
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Washington Resistance Army
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Founded: Aug 08, 2011
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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:14 am

Evil Dictators Happyland wrote:

Do you have any evidence of this being a common thing, or is "it happened once" enough for you?


I mean, that wiki link has a bunch of other such incidents under See Also. I can only imagine how much of that shit hasn't been caught yet.

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Bear Stearns
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Corporate Bordello

Postby Bear Stearns » Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:14 am

Bienenhalde wrote:


Again, this is not necessarily the fault of Muslims. Remember the persecution of Christianity in the French Revolution? Remember the church arsonist Varg Vikernes?


Seems unlikely that it's the French Revolutionaries at it again. Admittedly, we don't have reliable statistics because most of the time the perpetrators are never caught and also French doesn't keep good statistics on ethnicity/religion and crime.
The Bear Stearns Companies, Inc. is a New York-based global investment bank, securities trading and brokerage firm. Its main business areas are capital markets, investment banking, wealth management and global clearing services. Bear Stearns was founded as an equity trading house on May Day 1923 by Joseph Ainslie Bear, Robert B. Stearns and Harold C. Mayer with $500,000 in capital.
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Old Tyrannia
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Founded: Aug 11, 2009
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Postby Old Tyrannia » Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:17 am

Bienenhalde wrote:
Hanafuridake wrote:30,000 members of the Orthodox Church isn't particularly impressive and you can't really play the persecution card when the reason your religion got into trouble with the shogunal authorities was partly because of sexual slavery.

Even if some of the Portuguese were involved in sexual slavery, their actions were contradictory to the teachings of Christianity. And anyway didn't Shinto and Japanese Buddhism historically rather permissive regarding the practice of sexual slavery?

What is it about Japanese culture that you actually like, Bien? I mean, you style yourself as a japanophile but whenever I've seen you talking about Japanese culture and history, your take has seemed quite dismissive or even hostile.

Also, I've just realised that you are actually older than me and it is freaking me out a little.
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Nea Byzantia
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Founded: Jun 03, 2016
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Nea Byzantia » Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:18 am

Old Tyrannia wrote:
Bienenhalde wrote:Even if some of the Portuguese were involved in sexual slavery, their actions were contradictory to the teachings of Christianity. And anyway didn't Shinto and Japanese Buddhism historically rather permissive regarding the practice of sexual slavery?

What is it about Japanese culture that you actually like, Bien? I mean, you style yourself as a japanophile but whenever I've seen you talking about Japanese culture and history, your take has seemed quite dismissive or even hostile.

Also, I've just realised that you are actually older than me and it is freaking me out a little.

And how old are you, sir?

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Old Tyrannia
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Founded: Aug 11, 2009
Father Knows Best State

Postby Old Tyrannia » Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:20 am

Nea Byzantia wrote:
Old Tyrannia wrote:What is it about Japanese culture that you actually like, Bien? I mean, you style yourself as a japanophile but whenever I've seen you talking about Japanese culture and history, your take has seemed quite dismissive or even hostile.

Also, I've just realised that you are actually older than me and it is freaking me out a little.

And how old are you, sir?

Twenty three.
Ascended to Modhood on the 14th September 2016
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The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord
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Founded: Jul 22, 2016
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Postby The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord » Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:20 am

Nea Byzantia wrote:
Old Tyrannia wrote:What is it about Japanese culture that you actually like, Bien? I mean, you style yourself as a japanophile but whenever I've seen you talking about Japanese culture and history, your take has seemed quite dismissive or even hostile.

Also, I've just realised that you are actually older than me and it is freaking me out a little.

And how old are you, sir?


I was always under the impression that OT was in his late twenties to early thirties in terms of age.

Old Tyrannia wrote:
Nea Byzantia wrote:And how old are you, sir?

Twenty three.


Really? You seem far wiser than most of the people in their early twenties that I've met.
Last edited by The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord on Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
< THE HIGH SWAGLORD | 8VALUES | POLITISCALES >
My NS stats are not indicative of my OOC views. NS stats are meant to be rather silly. My OOC political and ideological inspirations are as such:
The Republic, by Plato | Leviathan, by Thomas Hobbes | The Confucian civil service system of imperial China | The "Golden Liberty" elective
monarchy system of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth | The corporatist/technocratic philosophy of Henri de Saint-Simon | The communitarian
ideological framework of the Singaporean People's Action Party | "New Deal"-style societal regimentation | Kantian/Mohist/Stoic philosophy

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Nea Byzantia
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Founded: Jun 03, 2016
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Nea Byzantia » Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:22 am

Old Tyrannia wrote:
Nea Byzantia wrote:And how old are you, sir?

Twenty three.

That young? You're 3 years older than I.

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The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord
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Father Knows Best State

Postby The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord » Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:24 am

Nea Byzantia wrote:
Old Tyrannia wrote:Twenty three.

That young? You're 3 years older than I.


I suppose that I'm one of the younger ones here then, given as how I turned eighteen in January of this year.
< THE HIGH SWAGLORD | 8VALUES | POLITISCALES >
My NS stats are not indicative of my OOC views. NS stats are meant to be rather silly. My OOC political and ideological inspirations are as such:
The Republic, by Plato | Leviathan, by Thomas Hobbes | The Confucian civil service system of imperial China | The "Golden Liberty" elective
monarchy system of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth | The corporatist/technocratic philosophy of Henri de Saint-Simon | The communitarian
ideological framework of the Singaporean People's Action Party | "New Deal"-style societal regimentation | Kantian/Mohist/Stoic philosophy

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Old Tyrannia
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Founded: Aug 11, 2009
Father Knows Best State

Postby Old Tyrannia » Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:29 am

The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord wrote:
Old Tyrannia wrote:Twenty three.


Really? You seem far wiser than most of the people in their early twenties that I've met.

Thank you, that's quite a compliment, though I have to say I don't feel terribly wise most of the time.
Ascended to Modhood on the 14th September 2016
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Evil Dictators Happyland
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Evil Dictators Happyland » Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:29 am

Bear Stearns wrote:
Evil Dictators Happyland wrote:Do you have any evidence of this being a common thing, or is "it happened once" enough for you?


1,400 trafficked children is an insane number of people. I'm not sure how that can be ignored (unless you're British police lol).

And the church attacks are certainly not something that happened once.

I'd like to take a moment to point out that Bear Stearns' entire point is that migrants are just as bad as Christians, and even that's pretty flimsy.
Anyway, moving on to our scheduled programming, what I was trying to say is that native Europeans also engage in human trafficking, and they also occasionally destroy places of worship, and they also receive benefits from the government for their places of worship, and they also disrespect the social norms of the countries they're in, so accusing migrants of doing those four things doesn't mean a whole lot by itself. You need to demonstrate that migrants do it much more than native Europeans (preferably adjusting for income, since migrants are poor and poor areas tend to have more crime), and that your solution is better than other proposed solutions, which you haven't done.
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Bienenhalde
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Bienenhalde » Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:33 am

Old Tyrannia wrote:
Bienenhalde wrote:Even if some of the Portuguese were involved in sexual slavery, their actions were contradictory to the teachings of Christianity. And anyway didn't Shinto and Japanese Buddhism historically rather permissive regarding the practice of sexual slavery?

What is it about Japanese culture that you actually like, Bien? I mean, you style yourself as a japanophile but whenever I've seen you talking about Japanese culture and history, your take has seemed quite dismissive or even hostile.

Also, I've just realised that you are actually older than me and it is freaking me out a little.


That is a surprise to me too. I mean, I have to say, I like both traditional Japanese aesthetics and also anime. In political terms I would say I admire their monarchy and Confucian emphasis on social harmony. That said, there are some aspects of Japanese culture that bother me because they conflict with my Christian moral values.
Bienenhalde (mostly) represents my real political views.
https://8values.github.io/results.html?e=75.6&d=68.6&g=38.8&s=45.2
OOC:
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Kowani
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Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:42 am

The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord wrote:
Nea Byzantia wrote:That young? You're 3 years older than I.


I suppose that I'm one of the younger ones here then, given as how I turned eighteen in January of this year.

Mate, I turned 17 last month.
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Prydania wrote:
As a Canadian? I find Americans and their deep, deep distrust of the government to be fundamentally, critically, laughably flawed. I find some aspects of your country completely absurd. The distrust of anything remotely resembling authority is one. The gun problem that stems from that is another.

Seangoli wrote:You are spouting nonsensical drivel with no coherent thought, little logic, and at the end of it all just angry opining at the clouds based on a truly astonishly low level of knowledge or understanding of the subject matter.

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The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord
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Postby The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord » Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:58 am

Kowani wrote:
The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord wrote:
I suppose that I'm one of the younger ones here then, given as how I turned eighteen in January of this year.

Mate, I turned 17 last month.


You're only seventeen? I'm genuinely surprised since I thought you were slightly older than me. But come to think of it, you being a teenager does explain the whole "egoistic hedonism" thing rather nicely.
< THE HIGH SWAGLORD | 8VALUES | POLITISCALES >
My NS stats are not indicative of my OOC views. NS stats are meant to be rather silly. My OOC political and ideological inspirations are as such:
The Republic, by Plato | Leviathan, by Thomas Hobbes | The Confucian civil service system of imperial China | The "Golden Liberty" elective
monarchy system of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth | The corporatist/technocratic philosophy of Henri de Saint-Simon | The communitarian
ideological framework of the Singaporean People's Action Party | "New Deal"-style societal regimentation | Kantian/Mohist/Stoic philosophy

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El-Amin Caliphate
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Posts: 15283
Founded: Apr 05, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby El-Amin Caliphate » Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:05 pm

Diopolis wrote:
Nea Byzantia wrote:It all started with me talking about the Ottoman oppression of Orthodox Christians in their domains, and I brought up two items:

1) the Jizyia (the religious Tax)

2) The Janissary/ Devshirme system (called the "Blood Tax" by the Christians): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devshirme

So far, everybody's discussed the Jizyia, I haven't heard anybody talked about the "Blood Tax" and the Janissaries who came out of it.

I'm no fan of Islam, but the Jizya is actually pretty fair. The janissary system, not so much.

Bout time someone who wasn't Muslim understands it now :)
Bear Stearns wrote:
Hanafuridake wrote:
After the missionaries made themselves unwelcome through violating social mores, selling Japanese in the slave trade, burning down temples and shrines, and convincing daimyo to donate feudal land to the Church.


Ah, so what Muslim immigrants have done in Europe.

I'm not aware of my brothers and sisters
Hanafuridake wrote:selling Japanese in the slave trade, burning down temples and shrines, and convincing daimyo to donate feudal land to the Church.

(Just replace "Japanese" with "European" and "daimyo" with.....idk, people who've donated land to build a masjid, isn't bad at all.)
Bear Stearns wrote:
Hanafuridake wrote:
I wasn't aware that there were European daimyo who Muslim immigrants have been convincing to give land away.


The closest for that one is converting old churches into mosques and also establishing dangerous ethnic ghettos, but there are documented instances of the rest.

Dude no one establishes a ghetto. That's sounds like people want to be poor.
The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord wrote:
Nea Byzantia wrote:That young? You're 3 years older than I.


I suppose that I'm one of the younger ones here then, given as how I turned eighteen in January of this year.

Older than you by 2 months 8)
The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord wrote:
Kowani wrote:Mate, I turned 17 last month.


You're only seventeen? I'm genuinely surprised since I thought you were slightly older than me. But come to think of it, you being a teenager does explain the whole "egoistic hedonism" thing rather nicely.

Yeah this is crazy, I thought Kowani was in his 20s :blink:
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Kowani
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Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:08 pm

The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord wrote:
Kowani wrote:Mate, I turned 17 last month.


You're only seventeen? I'm genuinely surprised since I thought you were slightly older than me. But come to think of it, you being a teenager does explain the whole "egoistic hedonism" thing rather nicely.

Do I really come off as that old?

And yes, edgy teenager jokes are hilarious. Never heard that one before.

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:
The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord wrote:
You're only seventeen? I'm genuinely surprised since I thought you were slightly older than me. But come to think of it, you being a teenager does explain the whole "egoistic hedonism" thing rather nicely.

Yeah this is crazy, I thought Kowani was in his 20s :blink:

Surprise?
Narcissistic (Hedonistic) Nihilist. Yes, I am edgy. I know.
Atheist and still proud of it. Spanish Expat.
Post-Capitalist, Post-Nationalist.
Rights are functionally just privileges society has deemed important.
Prydania wrote:
As a Canadian? I find Americans and their deep, deep distrust of the government to be fundamentally, critically, laughably flawed. I find some aspects of your country completely absurd. The distrust of anything remotely resembling authority is one. The gun problem that stems from that is another.

Seangoli wrote:You are spouting nonsensical drivel with no coherent thought, little logic, and at the end of it all just angry opining at the clouds based on a truly astonishly low level of knowledge or understanding of the subject matter.

0% Capitalism

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The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord
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Founded: Jul 22, 2016
Father Knows Best State

Postby The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord » Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:10 pm

Kowani wrote:
The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord wrote:
You're only seventeen? I'm genuinely surprised since I thought you were slightly older than me. But come to think of it, you being a teenager does explain the whole "egoistic hedonism" thing rather nicely.

Do I really come off as that old?

And yes, edgy teenager jokes are hilarious. Never heard that one before.


In hindsight, the tone of the fine-print statement might have been somewhat impolite, even though it wasn't my intent. In layman's terms: O O F
< THE HIGH SWAGLORD | 8VALUES | POLITISCALES >
My NS stats are not indicative of my OOC views. NS stats are meant to be rather silly. My OOC political and ideological inspirations are as such:
The Republic, by Plato | Leviathan, by Thomas Hobbes | The Confucian civil service system of imperial China | The "Golden Liberty" elective
monarchy system of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth | The corporatist/technocratic philosophy of Henri de Saint-Simon | The communitarian
ideological framework of the Singaporean People's Action Party | "New Deal"-style societal regimentation | Kantian/Mohist/Stoic philosophy

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Kowani
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Posts: 16782
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:13 pm

The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord wrote:
Kowani wrote:Do I really come off as that old?

And yes, edgy teenager jokes are hilarious. Never heard that one before.


In hindsight, the tone of the fine-print statement might have been somewhat impolite, even though it wasn't my intent. In layman's terms: O O F

Nah. I was going for a “dry, British humor” thing, but clearly, that didn’t convey well over text. I’m not actually annoyed.
Narcissistic (Hedonistic) Nihilist. Yes, I am edgy. I know.
Atheist and still proud of it. Spanish Expat.
Post-Capitalist, Post-Nationalist.
Rights are functionally just privileges society has deemed important.
Prydania wrote:
As a Canadian? I find Americans and their deep, deep distrust of the government to be fundamentally, critically, laughably flawed. I find some aspects of your country completely absurd. The distrust of anything remotely resembling authority is one. The gun problem that stems from that is another.

Seangoli wrote:You are spouting nonsensical drivel with no coherent thought, little logic, and at the end of it all just angry opining at the clouds based on a truly astonishly low level of knowledge or understanding of the subject matter.

0% Capitalism

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