Right-Wing Discussion Thread XVI: Making Things Right Again

[Luminesa]

You must have gone to a fundamentalist school, because I was taught evolution and sat next to multiple black kids during my times in private schools. I think the only thing we didn’t go into much out of that list was sex ed., but even then we talked about things like periods, pregnancy, bodily changes, etc. In my state at least, a lot of private schools are fantastic, and far superior to our abysmal public school system. Catholic schools are historically known for providing a high standard of education, as well, hence why even non-Catholics have sent their kids to private schools in many places.

Kowani is from Spain to elaborate.

Ah. I mean...fundie schools probably do exist in Spain? I dunno. That does kinda make a difference though, different issues in Spanish schools I guess.

[Hanafuridake]

Thankfully it didn't remain so, and it was liberated.

It was good while it lasted tho....in most instances anyway
Man it'd be great if Muslim rule could return to Al-Andalus.

Most Spaniards are atheists or Christians, none of them will accept Shariah law.

[North German Realm]

I think we need a new poll. Perhaps greatest monarch?

Not the best, the kindest, the oldest, etc. Vote on which monarch can be considered the "Greatest". Obvious candidates include Alexander, Peter, Alfred, the Sun King, Catherine, Frederick, etc.

Internationally, I'd say Queen Victoria. She was smart enough to know that "doing shit" is how you become a bad monarch, Britain pretty much became the World Power during her reign, she effectively succeeded in putting her own children and grandchildren in many Continental thrones, and the level of scientific, cultural, etc. development during her reign was magnificent.

For my own country, there's really one choice, and that's Reza Shah Pahlavi.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

It was good while it lasted tho....in most instances anyway
Man it'd be great if Muslim rule could return to Al-Andalus.

Most Spaniards are atheists or Christians, none of them will accept Shariah law.

They don't have to.

[Washington Resistance Army]

I think we need a new poll. Perhaps greatest monarch?

Not the best, the kindest, the oldest, etc. Vote on which monarch can be considered the "Greatest". Obvious candidates include Alexander, Peter, Alfred, the Sun King, Catherine, Frederick, etc.

Internationally, I'd say Queen Victoria. She was smart enough to know that "doing shit" is how you become a bad monarch, Britain pretty much became the World Power during her reign, she effectively succeeded in putting her own children and grandchildren in many Continental thrones, and the level of scientific, cultural, etc. development during her reign was magnificent.

For my own country, there's really one choice, and that's Reza Shah Pahlavi.

Alexander or Seleucus were the bests rulers of Persia and you know it.

[Jolthig]

Kowani is from Spain to elaborate.

Ah. I mean...fundie schools probably do exist in Spain? I dunno. That does kinda make a difference though, different issues in Spanish schools I guess.

Perhaps?

[Salus Maior]

Sure did.

So...are you saying it was somehow justified?

I think reconquering Spain was absolutely justified. And while the Inquisition was not nearly as bad as many make it out to be, I'm not going to call a religious cleansing a good thing.

[North German Realm]

Internationally, I'd say Queen Victoria. She was smart enough to know that "doing shit" is how you become a bad monarch, Britain pretty much became the World Power during her reign, she effectively succeeded in putting her own children and grandchildren in many Continental thrones, and the level of scientific, cultural, etc. development during her reign was magnificent.

For my own country, there's really one choice, and that's Reza Shah Pahlavi.

Alexander or Seleucus were the bests rulers of Persia and you know it.

If I were to respond to this from a "history enthusiast"'s viewpoint, I'd say Alexander was not a ruler long enough to be decided "the best". Seleucus's rule gave us Hellenism and some good shit that resulted in the Parthian Empire which is my own personal favorite Persian Empire so there's that. On the other hand, Cyrus was better than both, both as a Persian and as a Macedonian ruler.

[Salus Maior]

Most Spaniards are atheists or Christians, none of them will accept Shariah law.

They don't have to.

Aside from taxes and the possible death penalty from rejecting those taxes or any other law enforced on them by Islamic laws on non-Muslims.

We've done this tap dance before, we don't buy your crap Amin.

[Kowani]

Kowani is from Spain to elaborate.

Ah. I mean...fundie schools probably do exist in Spain? I dunno. That does kinda make a difference though, different issues in Spanish schools I guess.

Depends on where you are. Andalucía just had chronic unemployment, poverty, bad infrastructure, drug trafficking, and other problems. So, Church has quite a bit of social impact.

Thankfully it didn't remain so, and it was liberated.

It was good while it lasted tho....in most instances anyway
Man it'd be great if Muslim rule could return to Al-Andalus.

Vaya idea más mierda tas tenío, tío.

[Jolthig]

So...are you saying it was somehow justified?

I think reconquering Spain was absolutely justified. And while the Inquisition was not nearly as bad as many make it out to be, I'm not going to call a religious cleansing a good thing.

Yeah, to degrade the quality of Spain in terms of educational standards (unless if proven wrong). Heck, the Umayyads in Spain produced some fine philosophers like Ibn Rushd who helped inspire the Renaissance.

So what makes the Inquisition not as bad as people make it out to be?

And ok, we both agree religious cleansing isn't good.

[Hanafuridake]

Most Spaniards are atheists or Christians, none of them will accept Shariah law.

They don't have to.

Although dhimmis were allowed to perform their religious rituals, they were obliged to do so in a manner not conspicuous to Muslims. Display of non-Muslim religious symbols, such as crosses or icons, was prohibited on buildings and on clothing (unless mandated as part of distinctive clothing). Loud prayers were forbidden, as were the ringing of church bells and the blowing of the shofar.[100] They were also not allowed to build or repair churches without Muslim consent.[71] Moreover, dhimmis were not allowed to seek converts among Muslims.[101][page needed] In the Mamluk Egypt, where non-Mamluk Muslims were not allowed to ride horses and camels, dhimmis were prohibited even from riding donkeys inside cities.[102] Sometimes, Muslim rulers issued regulations requiring dhimmis to attach distinctive signs to their houses.[103]

[Washington Resistance Army]

So what makes the Inquisition not as bad as people make it out to be?

It just wasn't as awful and didn't impact as many people as some tend to think it did. The Inquisition sucked for sure but on the list of Christian atrocities and whatnot it's kinda low.

[Kowani]

So...are you saying it was somehow justified?

I think reconquering Spain was absolutely justified. And while the Inquisition was not nearly as bad as many make it out to be, I'm not going to call a religious cleansing a good thing.

In the interest of my country, the Visgothic monarchs who the Caliphate kicked out were shitty monarchs. It’s why resistance was so sparing-the population was treated better.

That’s said, the Catholic Monarchs fucked up when the expelled the Jews and the Muslims.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

They don't have to.

Aside from taxes and the possible death penalty from rejecting those taxes or any other law enforced on them by Islamic laws on non-Muslims.

We've done this tap dance before, we don't buy your crap Amin.

No one said anything about a death penalty for not paying jizyah.

[Jolthig]

They don't have to.

Aside from taxes and the possible death penalty from rejecting those taxes or any other law enforced on them by Islamic laws on non-Muslims.

We've done this tap dance before, we don't buy your crap Amin.

Jizya is literally like any other tax. You pay the state taxes and they'll protect you and provide you with services as we do here in the US.

Though the majority of Spain would have to be Muslim and through persuasion and democratic process could Spain become an Islamic state, but that won't happen at this time, and only a dreamer's dream until made into reality.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

They don't have to.

Although dhimmis were allowed to perform their religious rituals, they were obliged to do so in a manner not conspicuous to Muslims. Display of non-Muslim religious symbols, such as crosses or icons, was prohibited on buildings and on clothing (unless mandated as part of distinctive clothing). Loud prayers were forbidden, as were the ringing of church bells and the blowing of the shofar.[100] They were also not allowed to build or repair churches without Muslim consent.[71] Moreover, dhimmis were not allowed to seek converts among Muslims.[101][page needed] In the Mamluk Egypt, where non-Mamluk Muslims were not allowed to ride horses and camels, dhimmis were prohibited even from riding donkeys inside cities.[102] Sometimes, Muslim rulers issued regulations requiring dhimmis to attach distinctive signs to their houses.[103]

I'm not aware this became an Islamic history discussion. I thought we were just talikng abiut the law.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Though the majority of Spain would have to be Muslim and through persuasion and democratic process could Spain become an Islamic state

Says who?

[Camelone]

I never really got the whole reason for the whole evolution debate anyways it is the best of our scientific theories to explain the natural processes and the Bible being the revealed word of God the question should be 'what is the truth from this revelation and why did God reveal it this way?' It's not a super big deal, for me anyways plus I don't see the conflict when you frame the question in this way anyways.

If you do not mind me asking but did you attend a faith school in America and if so what type is it? I attended a public school and the only good thing that came from it was that I have close friends from there, everything I pretty much self taught myself because it was so inefficient and well slow.

Don’t ask me to understand religious fundamentalist mentality, ‘cause that’s not happening.

I did not. I attend a local public high school, since my father thought that I should get used to larger class sizes. My youngest brother, on the other hand… Mind you, my school is apparently pretty good (definitely better than my last one), and although I can’t speak to your last school, your culprits would be probably be lack of funding, CollegeBoard, and CommonCore.

Yeah same here. I take my faith very seriously but the fundamentalists keep on forgetting the context and the different genres within the Holy Bible which kind of warps their interpretations.

Ah gotcha, gotcha. As for my school it was one of the wealthiest school districts in the area, big pool and turfed sport fields in good condition and every student got a laptop. Newest technology and a bunch of connections. The city I live near to has the most money spent per student in the area but the dropout rate is incredibly high, high degrees of illiteracy, gang violence in the schools, and massive drug problem. The faith schools are pretty much the bastions of good education and discipline so I have a high approval rating and respect for them. Education is difficult and I'm getting my degree in it.

[Conserative Morality]

So...are you saying it was somehow justified?

I think reconquering Spain was absolutely justified. And while the Inquisition was not nearly as bad as many make it out to be, I'm not going to call a religious cleansing a good thing.

The Reconquista started good but ended poorly.

>> when you begin by knighting women and Jews in common cause of the defense of Christendom and Iberia, respectively
>> when you end by accusing the grandchildren of converts of being secret infidels

[North German Realm]

Aside from taxes and the possible death penalty from rejecting those taxes or any other law enforced on them by Islamic laws on non-Muslims.

We've done this tap dance before, we don't buy your crap Amin.

Jizya is literally like any other tax. You pay the state taxes and they'll protect you and provide you with services as we do here in the US.

Though the majority of Spain would have to be Muslim and through persuasion and democratic process could Spain become an Islamic state, but that won't happen at this time, and only a dreamer's dream until made into reality.

Historically speaking, it has been significantly higher than "any other tax", and has always been used as a coercive measure to force non-Muslims to convert. This really isn't a mystery or a secret.

[Kowani]

I think reconquering Spain was absolutely justified. And while the Inquisition was not nearly as bad as many make it out to be, I'm not going to call a religious cleansing a good thing.

Yeah, to degrade the quality of Spain in terms of educational standards (unless if proven wrong). Heck, the Umayyads in Spain produced some fine philosophers like Ibn Rushd who helped inspire the Renaissance.

So what makes the Inquisition not as bad as people make it out to be?

And ok, we both agree religious cleansing isn't good.

Averroes, Maimonides, all Andalusian philosophers at work. You’re all welcome.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Ah. I mean...fundie schools probably do exist in Spain? I dunno. That does kinda make a difference though, different issues in Spanish schools I guess.

Depends on where you are. Andalucía just had chronic unemployment, poverty, bad infrastructure, drug trafficking, and other problems. So, Church has quite a bit of social impact.

It was good while it lasted tho....in most instances anyway
Man it'd be great if Muslim rule could return to Al-Andalus.

Vaya idea más mi*rda tas tenío, tío.

Oi, yo sé qué estás diciendo

[Hanafuridake]

I'm not aware this became an Islamic history discussion. I thought we were just talikng abiut the law.

Thankfully it didn't remain so, and it was liberated.

It was good while it lasted tho....in most instances anyway
Man it'd be great if Muslim rule could return to Al-Andalus.

We're not just talking about the abstract idealized view of Islamic law which exists in your head.

[Jolthig]

Though the majority of Spain would have to be Muslim and through persuasion and democratic process could Spain become an Islamic state

Says who?

Imam Rizwan Khan's article that I showed when I announced my change of views a couple weeks ago

Jizya is literally like any other tax. You pay the state taxes and they'll protect you and provide you with services as we do here in the US.

Though the majority of Spain would have to be Muslim and through persuasion and democratic process could Spain become an Islamic state, but that won't happen at this time, and only a dreamer's dream until made into reality.

Historically speaking, it has been significantly higher than "any other tax", and has always been used as a coercive measure to force non-Muslims to convert. This really isn't a mystery or a secret.

Compared with Zakat, no it wasn't. And no, it did not force non-Muslims to convert, but it did however make them acknowledge that the Muslims were the new rulers of the land.