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Right-Wing Discussion Thread XVI: Making Things Right Again

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Do you consider nationalism and patriotism synoymous?

Yes- I am a nationalist and a patriot
115
26%
No- I am a nationalist and a patriot
52
12%
No- I am a nationalist, not a patriot
43
10%
No- I am a patriot, not a nationalist
147
33%
Yes- I am neither a nationalist nor a patriot
18
4%
No- I am neither a nationalist nor a patriot
68
15%
 
Total votes : 443

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Cappuccina
Minister
 
Posts: 2275
Founded: Jun 05, 2018
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Cappuccina » Thu May 23, 2019 9:24 am

Hakons wrote:
North German Realm wrote:Honestly, I doubt anyone was expecting the aftermath of the Great War to be even remotely worse than the hell that was the war itself, and yet here we are.


Truly, WWI was a disaster for the West, if not the entire world.


It was also good in some ways, it destroyed to decrepit empires (Austria-Hungary, Ottoman Empire, Russian Empire) paving the way for states that were more modernized. The sad part is that Germany was ruined, and France lost almost an entire generation of young men.
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Novus America
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26585
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Thu May 23, 2019 10:26 am

I am growing more favorable to a alternative history where the US gets revenge on the UK and France for them arming the Confederacy and joins the Central Powers.
Would be interesting to say the least.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

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Asherahan
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1969
Founded: Dec 08, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Asherahan » Thu May 23, 2019 10:32 am

Novus America wrote:I am growing more favorable to a alternative history where the US gets revenge on the UK and France for them arming the Confederacy and joins the Central Powers.
Would be interesting to say the least.

US Imperialism TM.
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Political Stances

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Salus Maior
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15721
Founded: Jun 16, 2014
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Salus Maior » Thu May 23, 2019 10:39 am

Cappuccina wrote:
Hakons wrote:
Truly, WWI was a disaster for the West, if not the entire world.


It was also good in some ways, it destroyed to decrepit empires (Austria-Hungary, Ottoman Empire, Russian Empire) paving the way for states that were more modernized. The sad part is that Germany was ruined, and France lost almost an entire generation of young men.


Austria I think could have been revitalized if it weren't for the war. Both Franz Ferdinand and Karl were very forward thinking and interested in federalization and modernization, and I think they would have been able to pull it off if they were given the chance.
Traditionalist Catholic and Constitutional Monarchist.

This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. -1 Timothy 1:15

“My entire endeavor has always been to clearly recognize the Will of God in all things and to follow it as completely as possible.” -Blessed Charles of Austria, last Habsburg Emperor

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Salus Maior
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15721
Founded: Jun 16, 2014
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Salus Maior » Thu May 23, 2019 10:39 am

Asherahan wrote:
Novus America wrote:I am growing more favorable to a alternative history where the US gets revenge on the UK and France for them arming the Confederacy and joins the Central Powers.
Would be interesting to say the least.

US Imperialism TM.


But that already exists.
Traditionalist Catholic and Constitutional Monarchist.

This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. -1 Timothy 1:15

“My entire endeavor has always been to clearly recognize the Will of God in all things and to follow it as completely as possible.” -Blessed Charles of Austria, last Habsburg Emperor

User avatar
Novus America
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26585
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Thu May 23, 2019 10:48 am

Salus Maior wrote:
Asherahan wrote:US Imperialism TM.


But that already exists.


But IRL we greatly limited it.
We turned down numerous opportunities.
In an alternative maybe we go all out like the UK.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

User avatar
Nova Cyberia
Senator
 
Posts: 4456
Founded: May 06, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Nova Cyberia » Thu May 23, 2019 11:01 am

Novus America wrote:I am growing more favorable to a alternative history where the US gets revenge on the UK and France for them arming the Confederacy and joins the Central Powers.
Would be interesting to say the least.

The superior version of history.
Yes, yes, I get it. I'm racist and fascist because I disagree with you. Can we skip that part? I've heard it a million times before and I guarantee it won't be any different when you do it
##############
American Nationalist
Third Positionist Gang

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Conserative Morality
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 76675
Founded: Aug 24, 2007
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Conserative Morality » Thu May 23, 2019 11:06 am

Novus America wrote:I am growing more favorable to a alternative history where the US gets revenge on the UK and France for them arming the Confederacy and joins the Central Powers.
Would be interesting to say the least.

1866 we invade Mexico and claim it as war reparations from the French before Emperor Maximilian is killed and we lose our chance

1867 we invade Canada and take it as war reparations from the British

I see no possible way either of things can go wrong

Who need a German when you got M O N R O E in your backyard?
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Novus America
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26585
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Thu May 23, 2019 11:08 am

Nova Cyberia wrote:
Novus America wrote:I am growing more favorable to a alternative history where the US gets revenge on the UK and France for them arming the Confederacy and joins the Central Powers.
Would be interesting to say the least.

The superior version of history.


Well the US would easily overrun Canada for sure.
But it would be an epic naval war with the US and Germany fighting France, Japan and the UK.

Though I think US economic superiority would give the US victory.
We could out build the others, and France would be knocked out if the Germans overran it.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

User avatar
Nova Cyberia
Senator
 
Posts: 4456
Founded: May 06, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Nova Cyberia » Thu May 23, 2019 11:09 am

Novus America wrote:
Nova Cyberia wrote:The superior version of history.


Well the US would easily overrun Canada for sure.
But it would be an epic naval war with the US and Germany fighting France, Japan and the UK.

Though I think US economic superiority would give the US victory.
We could out build the others, and France would be knocked out if the Germans overran it.

The US would undoubtedly win. The German Empire had the second-largest economy in the world by the time WW1 began. Germany allied with the US would essentially be unstoppable.
Yes, yes, I get it. I'm racist and fascist because I disagree with you. Can we skip that part? I've heard it a million times before and I guarantee it won't be any different when you do it
##############
American Nationalist
Third Positionist Gang

User avatar
The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7788
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Thu May 23, 2019 11:11 am

Conserative Morality wrote:
Novus America wrote:I am growing more favorable to a alternative history where the US gets revenge on the UK and France for them arming the Confederacy and joins the Central Powers.
Would be interesting to say the least.

1866 we invade Mexico and claim it as war reparations from the French before Emperor Maximilian is killed and we lose our chance

1867 we invade Canada and take it as war reparations from the British

I see no possible way either of things can go wrong

Who need a German when you got M O N R O E in your backyard?

Is national sovereignty a joke to you?
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Direct Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Psychedelic Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, Non-Market-Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Macs, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Economic: 0.5
Social: -8
I'm an 18 year old Australian who tries to think about things but fails, as we all do. I'll regret this in 2 years tops.

I think I have gender dysphoria so I'd prefer you use she/her pronouns on me. If not, he/him'll do.

User avatar
The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7788
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Thu May 23, 2019 11:12 am

Nova Cyberia wrote:
Novus America wrote:
Well the US would easily overrun Canada for sure.
But it would be an epic naval war with the US and Germany fighting France, Japan and the UK.

Though I think US economic superiority would give the US victory.
We could out build the others, and France would be knocked out if the Germans overran it.

The US would undoubtedly win. The German Empire had the second-largest economy in the world by the time WW1 began. Germany allied with the US would essentially be unstoppable.

Why do we want the central powers to win? If the central powers had won, monarchism might still be alive in western political discourse, and who wants that? Oh wait.
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Direct Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Psychedelic Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, Non-Market-Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Macs, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Economic: 0.5
Social: -8
I'm an 18 year old Australian who tries to think about things but fails, as we all do. I'll regret this in 2 years tops.

I think I have gender dysphoria so I'd prefer you use she/her pronouns on me. If not, he/him'll do.

User avatar
Conserative Morality
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 76675
Founded: Aug 24, 2007
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Conserative Morality » Thu May 23, 2019 11:15 am

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
Conserative Morality wrote:1866 we invade Mexico and claim it as war reparations from the French before Emperor Maximilian is killed and we lose our chance

1867 we invade Canada and take it as war reparations from the British

I see no possible way either of things can go wrong

Who need a German when you got M O N R O E in your backyard?

Is national sovereignty a joke to you?

Yes, the Peace of Westphalia was a mistake.
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Got a blog up again. || An NS Writing Discussion

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Novus America
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26585
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Thu May 23, 2019 11:16 am

Nova Cyberia wrote:
Novus America wrote:
Well the US would easily overrun Canada for sure.
But it would be an epic naval war with the US and Germany fighting France, Japan and the UK.

Though I think US economic superiority would give the US victory.
We could out build the others, and France would be knocked out if the Germans overran it.

The US would undoubtedly win. The German Empire had the second-largest economy in the world by the time WW1 began. Germany allied with the US would essentially be unstoppable.


Yes, I just do not see how they could match us in shipbuilding long term.

Especially when France would collapse without US economic support too, and be forced out.

The combined US German fleet could overwhelm the British and force a surrender via blockade.
After that it would be just mopping up the Japanese.
Last edited by Novus America on Thu May 23, 2019 11:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

User avatar
Nakena
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5738
Founded: May 06, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nakena » Thu May 23, 2019 11:16 am

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
Nova Cyberia wrote:The US would undoubtedly win. The German Empire had the second-largest economy in the world by the time WW1 began. Germany allied with the US would essentially be unstoppable.

Why do we want the central powers to win? If the central powers had won, monarchism might still be alive in western political discourse, and who wants that? Oh wait.


Germany and Austria-Hungary were constitutional monarchies already, with large amounts of social democrats and liberals in their parliaments present.
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Hakons
Senator
 
Posts: 4915
Founded: Jul 14, 2015
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Hakons » Thu May 23, 2019 11:17 am

Cappuccina wrote:
Hakons wrote:
Truly, WWI was a disaster for the West, if not the entire world.


It was also good in some ways, it destroyed to decrepit empires (Austria-Hungary, Ottoman Empire, Russian Empire) paving the way for states that were more modernized. The sad part is that Germany was ruined, and France lost almost an entire generation of young men.


What came out of the destroyed "decrepit" Russian Empire and German Empire were some of the worst ideologies, genocide, and human misery that humans have ever produced. I would much rather have a 'backward' Russian Empire than a genocidal/demonic USSR.
“That word, ‘conservative,’ is understood by people in different ways. Suppose you say that when we did arithmetic, we learned that two plus two equals four. It’s still the same, so am I then ‘conservative’ for saying so?” - Cardinal Arinze

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The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7788
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Thu May 23, 2019 11:18 am

Conserative Morality wrote:
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:Is national sovereignty a joke to you?

Yes, the Peace of Westphalia was a mistake.

Thank you for showing what happens when you disregard the concept of national sovereignty.
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Direct Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Psychedelic Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, Non-Market-Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Macs, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Economic: 0.5
Social: -8
I'm an 18 year old Australian who tries to think about things but fails, as we all do. I'll regret this in 2 years tops.

I think I have gender dysphoria so I'd prefer you use she/her pronouns on me. If not, he/him'll do.

User avatar
Conserative Morality
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 76675
Founded: Aug 24, 2007
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Conserative Morality » Thu May 23, 2019 11:18 am

Hakons wrote:What came out of the destroyed "decrepit" Russian Empire and German Empire were some of the worst ideologies, genocide, and human misery that humans have ever produced. I would much rather have a 'backward' Russian Empire than a genocidal/demonic USSR.

Would we ever have learned our lesson without such a horrific example, though?
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Nova Cyberia
Senator
 
Posts: 4456
Founded: May 06, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Nova Cyberia » Thu May 23, 2019 11:19 am

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
Nova Cyberia wrote:The US would undoubtedly win. The German Empire had the second-largest economy in the world by the time WW1 began. Germany allied with the US would essentially be unstoppable.

Why do we want the central powers to win? If the central powers had won, monarchism might still be alive in western political discourse, and who wants that? Oh wait.

Well, according to this scenario we want them to win as revenge for the French and British arming the Confederacy.
Last edited by Nova Cyberia on Thu May 23, 2019 11:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
Yes, yes, I get it. I'm racist and fascist because I disagree with you. Can we skip that part? I've heard it a million times before and I guarantee it won't be any different when you do it
##############
American Nationalist
Third Positionist Gang

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Conserative Morality
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 76675
Founded: Aug 24, 2007
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Conserative Morality » Thu May 23, 2019 11:19 am

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
Conserative Morality wrote:Yes, the Peace of Westphalia was a mistake.

Thank you for showing what happens when you disregard the concept of national sovereignty.

PEACE! THROUGH! POWER!
On the hate train. Choo choo, bitches. Bi-Polar. Proud Crypto-Fascist and Turbo Progressive. Dirty Étatist. Lowly Humanities Major. NSG's Best Liberal.
Caesar and Imperator of RWDT
Got a blog up again. || An NS Writing Discussion

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The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7788
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Thu May 23, 2019 11:20 am

Conserative Morality wrote:
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:Thank you for showing what happens when you disregard the concept of national sovereignty.

PEACE! THROUGH! POWER!

If you start to sound like a superhero villain, you might have a bad ideology...
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Direct Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Psychedelic Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, Non-Market-Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Macs, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Economic: 0.5
Social: -8
I'm an 18 year old Australian who tries to think about things but fails, as we all do. I'll regret this in 2 years tops.

I think I have gender dysphoria so I'd prefer you use she/her pronouns on me. If not, he/him'll do.

User avatar
Novus America
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26585
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Thu May 23, 2019 11:21 am

Nakena wrote:
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:Why do we want the central powers to win? If the central powers had won, monarchism might still be alive in western political discourse, and who wants that? Oh wait.


Germany and Austria-Hungary were constitutional monarchies already, with large amounts of social democrats and liberals in their parliaments present.


Plus we would be fighting against the British and Japanese monarchies.

Also the Russian Empire still falls.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

User avatar
Hakons
Senator
 
Posts: 4915
Founded: Jul 14, 2015
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Hakons » Thu May 23, 2019 11:21 am

Conserative Morality wrote:
Hakons wrote:What came out of the destroyed "decrepit" Russian Empire and German Empire were some of the worst ideologies, genocide, and human misery that humans have ever produced. I would much rather have a 'backward' Russian Empire than a genocidal/demonic USSR.

Would we ever have learned our lesson without such a horrific example, though?


I'm not all to sure which example you're referring to, but we didn't learn our lesson from WWI, and anti-democratic forces seem to be gaining strength in some areas of the world and online thought.
“That word, ‘conservative,’ is understood by people in different ways. Suppose you say that when we did arithmetic, we learned that two plus two equals four. It’s still the same, so am I then ‘conservative’ for saying so?” - Cardinal Arinze

User avatar
Conserative Morality
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 76675
Founded: Aug 24, 2007
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Conserative Morality » Thu May 23, 2019 11:22 am

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
Conserative Morality wrote:PEACE! THROUGH! POWER!

If you start to sound like a superhero villain, you might have a bad ideology...

Image
On the hate train. Choo choo, bitches. Bi-Polar. Proud Crypto-Fascist and Turbo Progressive. Dirty Étatist. Lowly Humanities Major. NSG's Best Liberal.
Caesar and Imperator of RWDT
Got a blog up again. || An NS Writing Discussion

User avatar
Conserative Morality
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 76675
Founded: Aug 24, 2007
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Conserative Morality » Thu May 23, 2019 11:23 am

Hakons wrote:
I'm not all to sure which example you're referring to, but we didn't learn our lesson from WWI, and anti-democratic forces seem to be gaining strength in some areas of the world and online thought.

WW2. We learned our lesson from what spawned from WW1. Namely, "Genocide bad", "Racism is anti-democratic", "Hating Jews is really shitty", "If you build a line of impenetrable fortresses along the border it needs to go all the way around"
On the hate train. Choo choo, bitches. Bi-Polar. Proud Crypto-Fascist and Turbo Progressive. Dirty Étatist. Lowly Humanities Major. NSG's Best Liberal.
Caesar and Imperator of RWDT
Got a blog up again. || An NS Writing Discussion

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