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Right-Wing Discussion Thread XVI: Making Things Right Again

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Do you consider nationalism and patriotism synoymous?

Yes- I am a nationalist and a patriot
89
26%
No- I am a nationalist and a patriot
38
11%
No- I am a nationalist, not a patriot
34
10%
No- I am a patriot, not a nationalist
117
34%
Yes- I am neither a nationalist nor a patriot
14
4%
No- I am neither a nationalist nor a patriot
51
15%
 
Total votes : 343

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Conserative Morality
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby Conserative Morality » Wed May 22, 2019 12:45 pm

Nea Byzantia wrote:
Diopolis wrote:You can have your state with divorce and birth control, we can have ours without it.

Orthodoxy is ok with birth control? Since when?

Dunno how trustworthy Orthodoxwiki is, but...
The dominant view, represented by the Church of Moscow[3], the Greek Archdiocese, the Orthodox Church in America[4], and by the bioethicists Engelhardt and Stanley S. Harakas, may be fairly described as the teaching that non-abortifacient contraception is acceptable if it is used with the blessing of one's spiritual father, and if it is not used to avoid having children for purely selfish reasons.

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Diopolis
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Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Diopolis » Wed May 22, 2019 12:47 pm

Nea Byzantia wrote:
Diopolis wrote:You can have your state with divorce and birth control, we can have ours without it.

Orthodoxy is ok with birth control? Since when?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian ... _Orthodoxy
According to wiki, Orthodoxy has a fair range of views on birth control, tends to view there as being no definitive teaching(when in fact the church fathers spoke unanimously on the issue), and even the "conservative" member churches are more liberal on the question than an outright ban.
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Nea Byzantia
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Nea Byzantia » Wed May 22, 2019 12:48 pm

Diopolis wrote:
Nea Byzantia wrote:Orthodoxy is ok with birth control? Since when?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian ... _Orthodoxy
According to wiki, Orthodoxy has a fair range of views on birth control, tends to view there as being no definitive teaching(when in fact the church fathers spoke unanimously on the issue), and even the "conservative" member churches are more liberal on the question than an outright ban.

One could say the same about Catholics, though, no? Regardless of what the Church says.

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Novus America
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Wed May 22, 2019 12:50 pm

Diopolis wrote:
Nea Byzantia wrote:Orthodoxy is ok with birth control? Since when?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian ... _Orthodoxy
According to wiki, Orthodoxy has a fair range of views on birth control, tends to view there as being no definitive teaching(when in fact the church fathers spoke unanimously on the issue), and even the "conservative" member churches are more liberal on the question than an outright ban.


Orthodoxy is a broad grouping of course. Theology within it can vary significantly.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

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Nea Byzantia
Minister
 
Posts: 3388
Founded: Jun 03, 2016
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Nea Byzantia » Wed May 22, 2019 12:53 pm

Novus America wrote:
Diopolis wrote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian ... _Orthodoxy
According to wiki, Orthodoxy has a fair range of views on birth control, tends to view there as being no definitive teaching(when in fact the church fathers spoke unanimously on the issue), and even the "conservative" member churches are more liberal on the question than an outright ban.


Orthodoxy is a broad grouping of course. Theology within it can vary significantly.

Except in the case of an Ecumenical Council, in which case the ruling is final. But those are only called for truly major issues; not every little social problem. In that respect, we are less autistic than our estranged Catholic cousins.
Last edited by Nea Byzantia on Wed May 22, 2019 12:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Novus America
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Wed May 22, 2019 12:58 pm

Nea Byzantia wrote:
Novus America wrote:
Orthodoxy is a broad grouping of course. Theology within it can vary significantly.

Except in the case of an Ecumenical Council, in which case the ruling is final. But those are only called for truly major issues; not every little social problem. In that respect, we are less autistic than our estranged Catholic cousins.


The last of (Orthodox only but mostly recognized by Orthodox) which was held in 1872 which was a failure and its rulings not followed.
It is not because Orthodox are less “autistic” than Catholics but because Orthodoxy lacks the ability to organize as effectively.
Last edited by Novus America on Wed May 22, 2019 2:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

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Diopolis
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Posts: 12218
Founded: May 15, 2012
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Diopolis » Wed May 22, 2019 2:26 pm

Novus America wrote:
Nea Byzantia wrote:Except in the case of an Ecumenical Council, in which case the ruling is final. But those are only called for truly major issues; not every little social problem. In that respect, we are less autistic than our estranged Catholic cousins.


The last of which was held in 1871 which was a failure and its rulings not followed.
It is not because you are less “autistic” but because you lack the ability to organize as effectively.

Vatican I ended in 1870, so I'm not sure what you're referring to.
If you mean Orthodox ecumenical councils, there hasn't been one in over a thousand years IIRC. Largely because the Orthodox patriarchates spend the better part of the last thousand years as the caliph's bitch.
Trad-Catholic, hispanophile Texas nationalist and paleoconservative. Yes, my politics are in somewhat of a flux rn, so the description changes on a weekly basis.
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Abortion is not healthcare.
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Novus America
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Posts: 23711
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Wed May 22, 2019 2:49 pm

Diopolis wrote:
Novus America wrote:
The last of which was held in 1871 which was a failure and its rulings not followed.
It is not because you are less “autistic” but because you lack the ability to organize as effectively.

Vatican I ended in 1870, so I'm not sure what you're referring to.
If you mean Orthodox ecumenical councils, there hasn't been one in over a thousand years IIRC. Largely because the Orthodox patriarchates spend the better part of the last thousand years as the caliph's bitch.


I am referring to the Orthodox Synod of Constantinople in 1872 (I was off by a year).
It was the last largely though not completely recognized Orthodox Ecumenical Council and was a complete failure.

True the last universally recognized Ecumenical council was 787.
An institution that has be in abeyance for at least over a century, possibly a millennium cannot be considered currently functioning regardless.

They did try to hold some after, but certainly the fall of Constantinople was a blow from which Orthodoxy never really recovered.
Last edited by Novus America on Wed May 22, 2019 7:22 pm, edited 3 times in total.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

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Benuty
Post Czar
 
Posts: 35735
Founded: Jan 21, 2013
Democratic Socialists

Postby Benuty » Wed May 22, 2019 6:43 pm

It would have perhaps been great mercy to have annexed Mexico following the war.
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The Xenopolis Confederation
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6546
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Wed May 22, 2019 6:56 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:
Bear Stearns wrote:Kicking people out of the country? Holy fuck the insecurity. Did you get ass whooped by a New Englander or something once?

Most of my family is still in New England, actually. My parents were Appalachian transplants. I just believe that ethnonationalists have no place in this country, or really this world, but I suppose people should be free to hold their dangerous delusions somewhere, preferably somewhere very isolated.

Bear Stearns is not an ethnonationalist, is he?
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The Empire of Pretantia
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Posts: 38594
Founded: Oct 18, 2012
Democratic Socialists

Postby The Empire of Pretantia » Wed May 22, 2019 7:10 pm

Nea Byzantia wrote:
Novus America wrote:
Orthodoxy is a broad grouping of course. Theology within it can vary significantly.

Except in the case of an Ecumenical Council, in which case the ruling is final. But those are only called for truly major issues; not every little social problem. In that respect, we are less autistic than our estranged Catholic cousins.

You mean you're less faithful than your Catholic cousins. :^)
Last edited by The Empire of Pretantia on Wed May 22, 2019 7:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Salus Maior
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Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Salus Maior » Wed May 22, 2019 7:11 pm

Nea Byzantia wrote:
Diopolis wrote:You can have your state with divorce and birth control, we can have ours without it.

Orthodoxy is ok with birth control? Since when?


It's something that can be decided Bishop-to-Bishop. A Bishop can allow or disallow the use of birth control, so long as it is not abortifacient.
The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. John 1:5

"What is better? To be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?" -Paarthurnax

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Salus Maior
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Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Salus Maior » Wed May 22, 2019 7:13 pm

The Empire of Pretantia wrote:
Nea Byzantia wrote:Except in the case of an Ecumenical Council, in which case the ruling is final. But those are only called for truly major issues; not every little social problem. In that respect, we are less autistic than our estranged Catholic cousins.

You mean you're less faithful than your Catholic cousins.


As a Catholic, and as someone with criticism towards some elements of our schismatic brethren, I would never say that Orthodox are less faithful to Christ. Even if some errors persist with them.
The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. John 1:5

"What is better? To be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?" -Paarthurnax

“My entire endeavor has always been to clearly recognize the Will of God in all things and to follow it as completely as possible.” -Blessed Charles of Austria, last Habsburg Emperor

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Salus Maior
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Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Salus Maior » Wed May 22, 2019 7:14 pm

Conserative Morality wrote: I just believe that ethnonationalists have no place in this country, or really this world...


I too think that Wilsonian indulgence of nationalism on ethnic lines was incredibly short sighted and naive.
The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. John 1:5

"What is better? To be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?" -Paarthurnax

“My entire endeavor has always been to clearly recognize the Will of God in all things and to follow it as completely as possible.” -Blessed Charles of Austria, last Habsburg Emperor

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Dradnine
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Founded: Nov 23, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Dradnine » Wed May 22, 2019 7:30 pm

catholicism delenda est
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Salus Maior
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Founded: Jun 16, 2014
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Postby Salus Maior » Wed May 22, 2019 8:10 pm

Dradnine wrote:catholicism delenda est


Let me know when anarchists actually make a successful society and then I may take you slightly seriously.
The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. John 1:5

"What is better? To be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?" -Paarthurnax

“My entire endeavor has always been to clearly recognize the Will of God in all things and to follow it as completely as possible.” -Blessed Charles of Austria, last Habsburg Emperor

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Conserative Morality
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby Conserative Morality » Wed May 22, 2019 9:28 pm

Salus Maior wrote:
Conserative Morality wrote: I just believe that ethnonationalists have no place in this country, or really this world...


I too think that Wilsonian indulgence of nationalism on ethnic lines was incredibly short sighted and naive.

Wilson worst president
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Kowani
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Postby Kowani » Wed May 22, 2019 9:30 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:
Salus Maior wrote:
I too think that Wilsonian indulgence of nationalism on ethnic lines was incredibly short sighted and naive.

Wilson worst president

I’m still putting Andrew Jackson as the worst, but okay.
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Conserative Morality
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Postby Conserative Morality » Wed May 22, 2019 9:33 pm

Kowani wrote:
I’m still putting Andrew Jackson as the worst, but okay.

Jackson at least championed votes for the common man and put the kibosh on nullification. Sure he was an authoritarian racist shithead with no respect for the rule of law, but so was Wilson.
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Kowani
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Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Wed May 22, 2019 9:37 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:
Kowani wrote:
I’m still putting Andrew Jackson as the worst, but okay.

Jackson at least championed votes for the common man and put the kibosh on nullification. Sure he was an authoritarian racist shithead with no respect for the rule of law, but so was Wilson.

Wilson also gave us an income tax, made the Sherman Anti-Trust Act not suck, and dropped tariffs.

Plus, Jackson committed Genocide, there’s no winning there.
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Atheist and still proud of it. Technophile to the extreme.
Post-Capitalist, Post-Nationalist. Go beyond.
Oh, and a Pragmatist. Somehow.
Rights are functionally just privileges society has deemed important.
Neanderthaland wrote:
Christian Confederation wrote:Contraception can't fail if you don't have sex in term no unwanted pregnancy.

Your entire religion is based on the idea that this isn't true.

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Novus America
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 23711
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Wed May 22, 2019 9:38 pm

Kowani wrote:
Conserative Morality wrote:Jackson at least championed votes for the common man and put the kibosh on nullification. Sure he was an authoritarian racist shithead with no respect for the rule of law, but so was Wilson.

Wilson also gave us an income tax, made the Sherman Anti-Trust Act not suck, and dropped tariffs.

Plus, Jackson committed Genocide, there’s no winning there.


Tariffs > income tax.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

User avatar
Kowani
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Posts: 9131
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Wed May 22, 2019 9:42 pm

Novus America wrote:
Kowani wrote:Wilson also gave us an income tax, made the Sherman Anti-Trust Act not suck, and dropped tariffs.

Plus, Jackson committed Genocide, there’s no winning there.


Tariffs > income tax.

Not of you want fairness to consumers, a
proper diplomacy and a government that isn’t always strapped for cash. Plus, stratification of wealth tends to not go well.

And besides, Wilson brought the estate tax too.
Narcissistic (Hedonistic) Nihilist. Yes, I am edgy. I know.
Dorgival R. Seč of the NS Parliament!
Atheist and still proud of it. Technophile to the extreme.
Post-Capitalist, Post-Nationalist. Go beyond.
Oh, and a Pragmatist. Somehow.
Rights are functionally just privileges society has deemed important.
Neanderthaland wrote:
Christian Confederation wrote:Contraception can't fail if you don't have sex in term no unwanted pregnancy.

Your entire religion is based on the idea that this isn't true.

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Conserative Morality
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 76675
Founded: Aug 24, 2007
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Conserative Morality » Wed May 22, 2019 9:47 pm

Kowani wrote:
Conserative Morality wrote:Jackson at least championed votes for the common man and put the kibosh on nullification. Sure he was an authoritarian racist shithead with no respect for the rule of law, but so was Wilson.

Wilson also gave us an income tax, made the Sherman Anti-Trust Act not suck, and dropped tariffs.

Plus, Jackson committed Genocide, there’s no winning there.

Anyone could have made an income tax or dropped tariffs. Only Wilson could have fucked up international relations for generations to come.
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Kowani
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9131
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Wed May 22, 2019 9:49 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:
Kowani wrote:Wilson also gave us an income tax, made the Sherman Anti-Trust Act not suck, and dropped tariffs.

Plus, Jackson committed Genocide, there’s no winning there.

Anyone could have made an income tax or dropped tariffs. Only Wilson could have fucked up international relations for generations to come.

Is this one of those “Should’ve stayed out of WW1 things?”
Narcissistic (Hedonistic) Nihilist. Yes, I am edgy. I know.
Dorgival R. Seč of the NS Parliament!
Atheist and still proud of it. Technophile to the extreme.
Post-Capitalist, Post-Nationalist. Go beyond.
Oh, and a Pragmatist. Somehow.
Rights are functionally just privileges society has deemed important.
Neanderthaland wrote:
Christian Confederation wrote:Contraception can't fail if you don't have sex in term no unwanted pregnancy.

Your entire religion is based on the idea that this isn't true.

User avatar
Novus America
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 23711
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Wed May 22, 2019 9:50 pm

Kowani wrote:
Novus America wrote:
Tariffs > income tax.

Not of you want fairness to consumers, a
proper diplomacy and a government that isn’t always strapped for cash. Plus, stratification of wealth tends to not go well.

And besides, Wilson brought the estate tax too.


Tariffs can raise plenty enough revenue.
And do not destroy domestic industry causing soaring inequality and the loss of good paying jobs to slave labor overseas.
They allow you to prevent a suicidal race to the bottom on labor and environmental laws.

Global trade causes stratification of wealth.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.usnews ... ontext=amp

Are you really surprised? How do you think destroying high paying jobs here to create low paying ones elsewhere would not stratification of wealth? :eyebrow:
Last edited by Novus America on Wed May 22, 2019 9:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

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