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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 12:26 pm
by Diopolis
Conserative Morality wrote:
Bear Stearns wrote:Kicking people out of the country? Holy fuck the insecurity. Did you get ass whooped by a New Englander or something once?

Most of my family is still in New England, actually. My parents were Appalachian transplants. I just believe that ethnonationalists have no place in this country, or really this world, but I suppose people should be free to hold their dangerous delusions somewhere, preferably somewhere very isolated.

So you believe me and my ilk should be free to go establish a rad trad theocracy in the middle of Siberia or some island or whatever?

PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 12:27 pm
by Novus America
Bienenhalde wrote:
Novus America wrote:
So you would still be going back to Germany, no bad example as Germans were not the first people in the land that is now Germany, but regardless Pennsylvania is not the first government of the first people on the land, an obvious unworkable and unsustainable concept anyways.


Well, I am not exactly opposed to all immigration. But as a white person, I am well aware that I am not an indigenous inhabitant of this continent. Also, pre-contact Native Americans had chiefs or elders, but they did not have an advanced, organized system of government comparable to the modern state.


Actually some did. But the point remains borders change. People move.

PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 12:27 pm
by Bear Stearns
Conserative Morality wrote:
Bear Stearns wrote:Okay...if you want to play the quote game, let just pick from any one of the slaveholding Founders. Or, we can look the actual laws they wrote concerning immigration at the time.

Washington was one of the slaveholding Founders. Nice try though. I mean, it was a try.
Some other rando wrote:Born in other countries, yet believing you could be happy in this, our laws acknowledge, as they should do, your right to join us in society, conforming, as I doubt not you will do, to our established rules. That these rules shall be as equal as prudential considerations will admit, will certainly be the aim of our legislatures, general and particular.


Immigration was essentially unrestricted until the late 19th century. :)


Our very first immigration law:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalization_Act_of_1790

C'mon bruh.

PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 12:28 pm
by Nea Byzantia
Diopolis wrote:
Conserative Morality wrote:Most of my family is still in New England, actually. My parents were Appalachian transplants. I just believe that ethnonationalists have no place in this country, or really this world, but I suppose people should be free to hold their dangerous delusions somewhere, preferably somewhere very isolated.

So you believe me and my ilk should be free to go establish a rad trad theocracy in the middle of Siberia or some island or whatever?

Don't you mean a rad trad monarchy with theocratic elements (or any sane nation before 1776)?

PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 12:28 pm
by Fahran
Bienenhalde wrote:Well, I am not exactly opposed to all immigration. But as a white person, I am well aware that I am not an indigenous inhabitant of this continent. Also, pre-contact Native Americans had chiefs or elders, but they did not have an advanced, organized system of government comparable to the modern state.

It really depends on who we mean when we discuss Native Americans. Some of them did possess centralized states. Others formed confederacies or loose bands that had a concrete claim to a parcel of territory.

PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 12:28 pm
by Conserative Morality
Diopolis wrote:So you believe me and my ilk should be free to go establish a rad trad theocracy in the middle of Siberia or some island or whatever?

If you allow for free emigration, sure. Absolutely, in fact. People should be free to live how they want so long as others can opt out. I would very much prefer the world be carved up on political lines rather than the current inconsistently ethnic-but-sometimes-historical-unless-economics-gets-in-the-way ones.

PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 12:28 pm
by Bear Stearns
Conserative Morality wrote:
Bear Stearns wrote:
Okay..creepy. It seems this touches a deeper nerve with you than a simple political debate.

Where is your gulag for us going to be located?

Politics affects the lives of millions. Especially dangerous politics, like ethnonationalism. If you don't give a shit about millions of people, or think it's worth being passionate about, that's your problem, not mine.

Montana.


And your answer is to exile people...

PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 12:29 pm
by Nea Byzantia
Conserative Morality wrote:
Diopolis wrote:So you believe me and my ilk should be free to go establish a rad trad theocracy in the middle of Siberia or some island or whatever?

If you allow for free emigration, sure. Absolutely, in fact. People should be free to live how they want so long as others can opt out. I would very much prefer the world be carved up on political lines rather than the current inconsistently ethnic-but-sometimes-historical-unless-economics-gets-in-the-way ones.

Its a nice dream, but such fantasies can never be...

PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 12:29 pm
by Conserative Morality
Bear Stearns wrote:
Conserative Morality wrote:Washington was one of the slaveholding Founders. Nice try though. I mean, it was a try.


Immigration was essentially unrestricted until the late 19th century. :)


Our very first immigration law:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalization_Act_of_1790

C'mon bruh.

0/10, naturalization isn't immigration. Jesus Christ.

PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 12:29 pm
by Novus America
Diopolis wrote:
Conserative Morality wrote:Most of my family is still in New England, actually. My parents were Appalachian transplants. I just believe that ethnonationalists have no place in this country, or really this world, but I suppose people should be free to hold their dangerous delusions somewhere, preferably somewhere very isolated.

So you believe me and my ilk should be free to go establish a rad trad theocracy in the middle of Siberia or some island or whatever?


Why not? If that is what you want.
Just do not try to impose it on the majority of us who do not want it.

That is all monarchy is anyways. Some warlord seizing power and then going into nepotism.

PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 12:29 pm
by West Leas Oros 2
Bear Stearns wrote:
Conserative Morality wrote:Most of my family is still in New England, actually. My parents were Appalachian transplants. I just believe that ethnonationalists have no place in this country, or really this world, but I suppose people should be free to hold their dangerous delusions somewhere, preferably somewhere very isolated.


Okay..creepy. It seems this touches a deeper nerve with you than a simple political debate.

Where is your gulag for us going to be located?

Alaska wouldn’t make a bad gulag. Or Minnesota. Montana as CM said. Iowa is absolutely shit, just like a gulag should be. Really, anywhere cold or crappy. Or both.

PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 12:30 pm
by Conserative Morality
Nea Byzantia wrote:Its a nice dream, but such fantasies can never be...

Yeah, unfortunately. Oh well. Maybe when we reach the stars, after I'm long dead.

PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 12:32 pm
by Diopolis
Conserative Morality wrote:
Diopolis wrote:So you believe me and my ilk should be free to go establish a rad trad theocracy in the middle of Siberia or some island or whatever?

If you allow for free emigration, sure. Absolutely, in fact. People should be free to live how they want so long as others can opt out. I would very much prefer the world be carved up on political lines rather than the current inconsistently ethnic-but-sometimes-historical-unless-economics-gets-in-the-way ones.

Honestly, if it's supposed to be a religious-cultural state, then why would we want people who don't want to be part of our religious-cultural complex to live there, aside from maybe the odd middleman minority or guest worker.

PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 12:34 pm
by Conserative Morality
Diopolis wrote:Honestly, if it's supposed to be a religious-cultural state, then why would we want people who don't want to be part of our religious-cultural complex to live there, aside from maybe the odd middleman minority or guest worker.

Well, I felt the need to specify allowing emigration because some people get off on keeping people against their will. t. Saudi Arabia, North Korea, most of the historical commie states

PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 12:34 pm
by Novus America
Bear Stearns wrote:
Conserative Morality wrote:Washington was one of the slaveholding Founders. Nice try though. I mean, it was a try.


Immigration was essentially unrestricted until the late 19th century. :)


Our very first immigration law:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalization_Act_of_1790

C'mon bruh.


Naturalization is not immigration. It did not restrict Catholics or Slavs at all either.
Yes such racism did exist. It was unfortunate. And we moved passed that.

PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 12:36 pm
by Novus America
Diopolis wrote:
Conserative Morality wrote:If you allow for free emigration, sure. Absolutely, in fact. People should be free to live how they want so long as others can opt out. I would very much prefer the world be carved up on political lines rather than the current inconsistently ethnic-but-sometimes-historical-unless-economics-gets-in-the-way ones.

Honestly, if it's supposed to be a religious-cultural state, then why would we want people who don't want to be part of our religious-cultural complex to live there, aside from maybe the odd middleman minority or guest worker.


Yes, which is why you have the right to leave your country if you prefer to go somewhere else.

Fucked up places like Cuba and North Korea aside, it is an agreed on human right.

PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 12:37 pm
by Diopolis
Novus America wrote:
Diopolis wrote:Honestly, if it's supposed to be a religious-cultural state, then why would we want people who don't want to be part of our religious-cultural complex to live there, aside from maybe the odd middleman minority or guest worker.


Yes, which is why you have the right to leave your country if you prefer to go somewhere else.

If we had a trad-Catholic religious cultural state.
Of course, we don't.

PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 12:38 pm
by Conserative Morality
Diopolis wrote:
Novus America wrote:
Yes, which is why you have the right to leave your country if you prefer to go somewhere else.

If we had a trad-Catholic religious cultural state.
Of course, we don't.

I suppose the Vatican doesn't exactly have an open-borders immigration policy. :p

PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 12:38 pm
by Novus America
Bear Stearns wrote:
Conserative Morality wrote:Politics affects the lives of millions. Especially dangerous politics, like ethnonationalism. If you don't give a shit about millions of people, or think it's worth being passionate about, that's your problem, not mine.

Montana.


And your answer is to exile people...


Or better people can just stop being racists and looking down on their fellow Americans based on ethnicity.

PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 12:38 pm
by Nea Byzantia
Diopolis wrote:
Novus America wrote:
Yes, which is why you have the right to leave your country if you prefer to go somewhere else.

If we had a trad-Catholic religious cultural state.
Of course, we don't.

What if it was Eastern Orthodox...

PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 12:40 pm
by Conserative Morality
Nea Byzantia wrote:
Diopolis wrote:If we had a trad-Catholic religious cultural state.
Of course, we don't.

What if it was Eastern Orthodox...

You get a state, you get a state; everyone gets a state!

PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 12:41 pm
by West Leas Oros 2
Conserative Morality wrote:
Nea Byzantia wrote:What if it was Eastern Orthodox...

You get a state, you get a state; everyone gets a state!

God I’d hate to be a cartographer if everyone had a state.

PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 12:42 pm
by Diopolis
Nea Byzantia wrote:
Diopolis wrote:If we had a trad-Catholic religious cultural state.
Of course, we don't.

What if it was Eastern Orthodox...

You can have your state with divorce and birth control, we can have ours without it.

PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 12:42 pm
by Novus America
Diopolis wrote:
Novus America wrote:
Yes, which is why you have the right to leave your country if you prefer to go somewhere else.

If we had a trad-Catholic religious cultural state.
Of course, we don't.


Well because few people want one.

Though there are Catholic monarchies you can go to.
Obviously not rad trad because most Catholics do not want that.

Only Muslims have rad trad monarchies. You are probably of the wrong religion.

PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 12:44 pm
by Nea Byzantia
Diopolis wrote:
Nea Byzantia wrote:What if it was Eastern Orthodox...

You can have your state with divorce and birth control, we can have ours without it.

Orthodoxy is ok with birth control? Since when?