Right-Wing Discussion Thread XVI: Making Things Right Again

[Kowani]

“Numerous and reputable”
You’ve yet to cite any!

Actually, he did:

How well has a multi-racial identity worked for places like Brazil and South Africa?
I'll give you a hint: not well.

Face it: multi-culturalism doesn't work (you claim to be anti-Communist from your flag und doch you embrace a tenant of Cultural Marxism?). I do not hate any race, but I believe that all races would be better off on their own rather than forced to live together.

But I didn't click on any of them because of the aforementioned reason. It's good to be cautious, no?

I’m discounting those because the societies of Brazil and South Africa aren’t built on racial egalitarianism. Obviously, a stratified society is going to have conflict-but that doesn’t prove that multi-racialism is the cause. When something’s done badly, things get fucked up.

[The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord]

Well, I don't completely agree with you on that one, but setting that aside: What are we to do about it? Simply tolerate the mass amounts of racial violence in the hopes of gradually replacing racial identities with national ones?
My solution seems more desirable.

I imagine it would be tiring to shift my political views in accordance with whatever was popular at the time. I prefer espousing principles anyways.

What's your solution?

They've already stated it; namely, racial separatism into ethnostates from what I've gathered. Is this correct or am I mistaken in my interpretation?

[The Grand Duchy Of Nova Capile]

I beg your pardon? I wasn't dismissing your sources; I don't often click links to websites that I'm not familiar with (computer security reasons and all that), and as such I didn't get the chance to properly analyze said sources. Is that understandable?

Yes, I understand, and I apologize. I am used to debating much less civil individuals. I suppose "dingo kidneys" just disarmed me.
Anyways, the sources include a NY times article, Youtube video from the BBC, and Wikipedia article, among other things. Nothing malicious.

[Bienenhalde]

Chinese =/= Han

Except that’s what the CPC and the KMT both consider to be Chinese. If you aren’t Han you aren’t Chinese. The KMT purged a lot of native peoples from Taiwan after they took back control of the island

Wrong: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Race ... _One_Union, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_e ... s_in_China

[The Grand Duchy Of Nova Capile]

I’m discounting those because the societies of Brazil and South Africa aren’t built on racial egalitarianism. Obviously, a stratified society is going to have conflict-but that doesn’t prove that multi-racialism is the cause. When something’s done badly, things get fucked up.

America isn't exactly built on racial equality either, and according to many suffers from racial stratification, too. I am sensing a pattern, here.

They've already stated it; namely, racial separatism into ethnostates from what I've gathered. Is this correct or am I mistaken in my interpretation?

Yes, though I find the term ethnostate rather cringe-worthy.

[Kowani]

I’m discounting those because the societies of Brazil and South Africa aren’t built on racial egalitarianism. Obviously, a stratified society is going to have conflict-but that doesn’t prove that multi-racialism is the cause. When something’s done badly, things get fucked up.

America isn't exactly built on racial equality either, and according to many suffers from racial stratification, too. I am sensing a pattern, here.

Hmm. I wonder why. Oh! It might be because multiracial countries tend to have been based on one race putting itself above everyone else, usually through superior technology!

But that’s no better an argument against multiracialism as Athens was against democracy.

[Jack Thomas Lang]

Yes, though I find the term ethnostate rather cringe-worthy.

The whole concept is cringy, and frankly cowardly. I'm not in favour of selling out white farmers in South Africa and Rhodesia to give some racist Blacks their own ethno-state. Anyone who wants to carve up their own country is a traitor, imo.

[Totally Not OEP]

I'm okay with ethnostates in their specific context; Poland should be for Poles, France for French, Japan for Japanese, etc.

[The Grand Duchy Of Nova Capile]

\
The whole concept is cringy, and frankly cowardly. I'm not in favour of selling out white farmers in South Africa and Rhodesia to give some racist Blacks their own ethno-state. Anyone who wants to carve up their own country is a traitor, imo.

I would be a hypocrite if I said I wanted the Boere to give up their land. Most of them have been there longer than most Americans have been in America, so I believe they are entitled to a portion of the region. Most native Africans living in the area aren't even native to it, either. A peaceful compromise is possible, with two homogenous states.

[Thermodolia]

Except that’s what the CPC and the KMT both consider to be Chinese. If you aren’t Han you aren’t Chinese. The KMT purged a lot of native peoples from Taiwan after they took back control of the island

Wrong: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Race ... _One_Union,

Ya that didn’t work out so well. Especially considering that the KMT committed genocide in Taiwan.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_China

Just because there are small ethnic minorities in China doesn’t mean that the CPC or KMT considers them to be ethnically Chinese. Otherwise the CPC wouldn’t be committing genocide against the Uyghur people

[The Grand Duchy Of Nova Capile]

Hmm. I wonder why. Oh! It might be because multiracial countries tend to have been based on one race putting itself above everyone else, usually through superior technology!

But that’s no better an argument against multiracialism as Athens was against democracy.

Yes, you're right. At first it was the white above the black, and now it's the other way around. No good either way. Why not equal but separate?

And as for an argument against democracy, how about this?
For virtually all of America's history, its population has been against increased immigration. Until very recently in its history, politicians have been elected promising that they would not allow increased immigration. For all of our history, the government has allowed for more and more immigration.

[Genivaria]

It's really weird how ethnic separtist like to use nations like Brazil, Austria-Hungary, or the Ottoman Empire as examples of how 'multiculturalism' fails when all they prove is that social inequality built along ethnic lines is a recipe for ethnic tensions.

[Jack Thomas Lang]

I would be a hypocrite if I said I wanted the Boere to give up their land. Most of them have been there longer than most Americans have been in America, so I believe they are entitled to a portion of the region. Most native Africans living in the area aren't even native to it, either. A peaceful compromise is possible, with two homogenous states.

How?

8% of South Africa is white, which is divided into the Boers and Brits. Any divvying up of South Africa will favour Black ethno-nationalists, not Whites, who will assuredly lose land as they're forced out of Black-only South Africa.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

\
The whole concept is cringy, and frankly cowardly. I'm not in favour of selling out white farmers in South Africa and Rhodesia to give some racist Blacks their own ethno-state. Anyone who wants to carve up their own country is a traitor, imo.

I would be a hypocrite if I said I wanted the Boere to give up their land. Most of them have been there longer than most Americans have been in America, so I believe they are entitled to a portion of the region. Most native Africans living in the area aren't even native to it, either. A peaceful compromise is possible, with two homogenous states.

Why not just have one non-homogenous state?

[Kowani]

Hmm. I wonder why. Oh! It might be because multiracial countries tend to have been based on one race putting itself above everyone else, usually through superior technology!

But that’s no better an argument against multiracialism as Athens was against democracy.

Yes, you're right. At first it was the white above the black, and now it's the other way around.

Please tell me you’re not serious.

No good either way. Why not equal but separate?

Shooting oneself in the foot tends to be a bad idea.

And as for an argument against democracy, how about this?
For virtually all of America's history, its population has been against increased immigration. Until very recently in its history, politicians have been elected promising that they would not allow increased immigration. For all of our history, the government has allowed for more and more immigration.

Gonna need citations for all of that.

[Bienenhalde]

Wrong: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Race ... _One_Union,

Ya that didn’t work out so well. Especially considering that the KMT committed genocide in Taiwan.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_China

Just because there are small ethnic minorities in China doesn’t mean that the CPC or KMT considers them to be ethnically Chinese. Otherwise the CPC wouldn’t be committing genocide against the Uyghur people

The re-education camps in Xinjiang are trying to indoctrinate people into atheistic Marxism, ethnicity is not really the main issue. The alleged purpose is to combat radical Islam, although I think that is probably just an excuse to implement state atheism in a more hard-line manner. And it is true that the ROC used to pursue a strongly assimilationist policy and suppress aboriginal languages and cultural practices in the schools, but no, it was not a genocide by any stretch.

[The Grand Duchy Of Nova Capile]

It's really weird how ethnic separtist like to use nations like Brazil, Austria-Hungary, or the Ottoman Empire as examples of how 'multiculturalism' fails when all they prove is that social inequality built along ethnic lines is a recipe for ethnic tensions.

Not only did I only use one of those examples, but I would contend that socially inequality doesn't have anything to do with. Blacks and other races have been, on paper, equal to whites since ~1950 in Brazil, 1968 in America, and 1994 in South Africa. Many modern black people do not even trace their history back to oppression, having come into these countries after apartheid was lifted. And yet, still, after all these years, social inequality and institutional racism is blamed for their failure to assimilate.

[Cappuccina]

Yes. Democracy tends towards moral lapsing and pandering to the human lower-self for votes.

But what makes the state atheist hyper consumerism of the PRC moral?

I don't recall saying I consider the PRC moral.

The PRC is, however, much closer to what I consider ideal than Taiwan.

[Nakena]

But what makes the state atheist hyper consumerism of the PRC moral?

I don't recall saying I consider the PRC moral.

The PRC is, however, much closer to what I consider ideal than Taiwan.

What currently existing or recent historical nation (back to 1900) would come the closest to your ideal?

[The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord]

I don't recall saying I consider the PRC moral.

The PRC is, however, much closer to what I consider ideal than Taiwan.

What currently existing or recent historical nation (back to 1900) would come the closest to your ideal?

I can't speak for Cappuccina, but in my case it'd probably be Singapore.

[Kowani]

But what makes the state atheist hyper consumerism of the PRC moral?

I don't recall saying I consider the PRC moral.

The PRC is, however, much closer to what I consider ideal than Taiwan.

“They may be oppressing people, harvesting organs and ripping kids away, but gosh darn it, at least they’re not a liberal democracy!”

[Luminesa]

Yes, you're right. At first it was the white above the black, and now it's the other way around.

Please tell me you’re not serious.

No good either way. Why not equal but separate?

Shooting oneself in the foot tends to be a bad idea.

And as for an argument against democracy, how about this?
For virtually all of America's history, its population has been against increased immigration. Until very recently in its history, politicians have been elected promising that they would not allow increased immigration. For all of our history, the government has allowed for more and more immigration.

Gonna need citations for all of that.

Italians, Jews, Chinese, Irish, Catholics, and anyone not a WASP generally each had a hard time coming here for at least some time in our country’s history.

[EastKekistan]

But what makes the state atheist hyper consumerism of the PRC moral?

I don't recall saying I consider the PRC moral.

The PRC is, however, much closer to what I consider ideal than Taiwan.

Wut? What's your problem with Taiwan?

[Kowani]

Please tell me you’re not serious. Shooting oneself in the foot tends to be a bad idea.

Gonna need citations for all of that.

Italians, Jews, Chinese, Irish, Catholics, and anyone not a WASP generally each had a hard time coming here for at least some time in our country’s history.

I could point out the Scandinavians in Minnesota, but that’s an exception. However, my theory is that if the people were, as a majority, opposed to immigration, the politicians would’ve been voted out. Since they weren’t, we can assume that although nativism was definitely present, it’s overstated.

[Cappuccina]

I don't recall saying I consider the PRC moral.

The PRC is, however, much closer to what I consider ideal than Taiwan.

What currently existing or recent historical nation (back to 1900) would come the closest to your ideal?

I'd consider Iran's Islamic Republic closest to my ideal state in form, though I have many reservations about their policy.