Right-Wing Discussion Thread XVI: Making Things Right Again

[Nakena]

If you claim to be a Muslim why are you shilling for a regime that throws Muslims in concentration camps?
The ROC is the one with popular legitimacy and rule of law.

I disagree with their persecution of Muslims (naturally), however I admire the PRC in general.

I don't really care about "popular legitimacy" to the same extent as most people in the West do.

So perhaps you admire rigid and strict totalitarism(?) with absolute beliefs in general?

Because thats the feeling I am getting from you, and that the strict rules and guidelines of the islamic religion do attract you to it.

[Thermodolia]

The One China policy is autism that no one but the PRC gives a shit about.

Honestly there should be two Chinas. Or at the very least Taiwan, HK, and any other state like Tibet and East Turkestan should be given a referendum on independence

[Novus America]

If you claim to be a Muslim why are you shilling for a regime that throws Muslims in concentration camps?
The ROC is the one with popular legitimacy and rule of law.

I disagree with their persecution of Muslims (naturally), however I admire the PRC in general.

I don't really care about "popular legitimacy" to the same extent as most people in the West do.

You admire them despite the fact they would force you to renounce your religion in a concentration camp?
This is like a Jew saying “I disagree with their persecution of Jews but I admire the Nazis”.

And what gives the PRC the right to get to oppress all Chinese people, even those outside its rule?
Not everyone else feels a need for oppressive rule to bring order to their life.

[Greater Cesnica]

I disagree with their persecution of Muslims (naturally), however I admire the PRC in general.

I don't really care about "popular legitimacy" to the same extent as most people in the West do.

You admire them despite the fact they would force you to renounce your religion in a concentration camp?
This is like a Jew saying “I disagree with their persecution of Jews but I admire the Nazis”

Fun fact there were Jews during WWII who supported Hitler.

[Novus America]

You admire them despite the fact they would force you to renounce your religion in a concentration camp?
This is like a Jew saying “I disagree with their persecution of Jews but I admire the Nazis”

Fun fact there were Jews during WWII who supported Hitler.

Yes, but none of us would claim their beliefs were reasonable either.
Obviously many people hold unreasonable, even suicidal beliefs. But we point out why those beliefs are not sensible.

[Turbofolkia]

Australian federalism is unique - the states came from the colonies deciding to federate, not the US. While we took the names “House of Representatives” and “Senate” from the US Congress, these bodies still operate under the Westminster model, not the Washington model. The spelling of the Labor Party is an anomaly due to the influence of American born MP King O’Malley at the turn of the 20th Century. The ALP, and the broader labour movement in this country, however, is uniquely Australian and has nothing to do with the US. The first time a labour party was elected to government anywhere in the world happened in Australia in 1910.

What do you mean by assimilation? I don’t think forcing ATSI people to speak English or forcing them to live in urban areas (the vast majority of ATSI people already do both) will do much to reduce rates of unemployment, alcoholism or domestic violence. I don’t claim to have the answer though. Yes, I think some of the moves by people like Bob Brown and the Stop Adani crowd have been counter productive, but I can’t fault them for the message they want to send.

I think you're reaching far too much to try eliminate America's influence on Australia's political system. For example, I don't understand how your point that the States federated, not the US, means anything. It's a given, we're talking about Australia ffs. That doesn't cancel out the obvious influence of America's political system on Australia. The Senate is another prime example. The Senate is quite different to the House of Lords, since it was originally to conceived to represent each state equally and a bill requires a senate majority to be passed, both factors which are much more similar to America's Senate than any other comparable Commonwealth version. We
have a Constitution which spells out federal powers and an independent judiciary which interprets the constitution and acts as the final place you can appeal. I concede that the spelling of the labor party isn't particularly important all things considered and that Australia's labour movement is independent from America. However there is a reason Australia's system has been nicknamed the Washminster system.

Moving Indigenous places to the suburbs where there is gainful employment and good schools. Obviously, they shouldn't be forced into urban areas and councillors should facilitate meetings with extended family who remain in prior communities. They also have to help buy groceries, since some aboriginals have a warped idea of basic necessities. Living conditions improve, and while the first generation remains in contact with their communities and culture, the second generation becomes naturally assimilated. It was tried in NSW and it worked, but I'm struggling to find an ABC podcast where they talked about it. Unfortunately the program, which was ultimately cheaper than keeping families on the dole, died out.

Perhaps I may be over-downplaying the level of US influence, but what I wanted to get across is that I think Australia’s system of federalism and its senate developed despite the US having similar institutions, not because of it. Germany, for example is also a federalist country and has an upper house that acts to represent the state at the federal level. I would argue that the fact we have no House of Lords has less to do with Parkes et all wanting to copy America and more to do with the fact unlike the UK or Canada, we’ve never had a large landed gentry class. The founders made it clear that they wanted Australia to be a “working man’s paradise” so they were never going to allow a system of peerage to develop here.

The fact that no similar chamber exists in other commonwealth countries shows to me that the Australian senate was is a uniquely Australian institution. Procedurally, the Australian senate operates quite differently from the US senate and has been modelled to fit the Westminster structure. I know some scholars of public law like to describe our system of government as “Washminster” but I dislike that term since it implies the system is equal parts Washington and Westminster when really and truly, the system is derived from Westminster with perhaps a smattering of Washington here and there.

Hmm..I’m quite uncomfortable with the idea of hoping that ATSI people would lose contact with their language and culture. Most ATSI people are already monolingual English speakers and what has that done for them? I remember watching a report on the SBS which found that ATSI students who studied their native language in school were more likely to finish school, attend university and hold down a full time job.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

If you claim to be a Muslim why are you shilling for a regime that throws Muslims in concentration camps?
The ROC is the one with popular legitimacy and rule of law.

I disagree with their persecution of Muslims (naturally), however I admire the PRC in general.

I don't really care about "popular legitimacy" to the same extent as most people in the West do.

What about the PRC is better than the ROC?

[The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord]

Ooh, since I'm developing the setting now, here's what I've got:

The Occluded Ones
Give yourself over to absolute pleasure. Swim the warm waters of sins of the flesh - erotic nightmares beyond any measure, and sensual daydreams to treasure forever. Can't you just see it? Don't dream it, be it. - The Kowanian Creed
The Occluded Ones, sometimes referred to as the Kowanian Cult (after the mythic founder of the Occluded, the mad sage Kowani the Thrice-Damned, sometimes referred to by the cult's initiated as Thrice-Enlightened), are an esoteric and oft banned religious order known for their disquieting nihilistic beliefs and their taboo magical practices that embrace things commonly thought of as profane. Their more moderate practices are tolerated to a point within the autonomous region of the Free City (sometimes called the "Commonwealth" due to their strange system of republican government) with the Occluded allowed to practice openly provided they don't infringe upon the rights of other citizens, whereas the cult is banned outright in all other provinces of the Empire, with the most common punishment being death.

I dunno though, what do you think?

This is freaking mad, dude.

This might be a tad late, but may you explain what you mean by "mad"?

[Kowani]

I disagree with their persecution of Muslims (naturally), however I admire the PRC in general.

I don't really care about "popular legitimacy" to the same extent as most people in the West do.

What about the PRC is better than the ROC?

The Flag. That’s about it.

[The Grand Duchy Of Nova Capile]

Indeed. We need to put aside past prejudices and embrace a collective identity as Americans. Unfortunately, that seems like wishful thinking these days.

How well has a multi-racial identity worked for places like Brazil and South Africa?
I'll give you a hint: not well.

Face it: multi-culturalism doesn't work (you claim to be anti-Communist from your flag und doch you embrace a tenant of Cultural Marxism?). I do not hate any race, but I believe that all races would be better off on their own rather than forced to live together.

[Novus America]

Indeed. We need to put aside past prejudices and embrace a collective identity as Americans. Unfortunately, that seems like wishful thinking these days.

How well has a multi-racial identity worked for places like Brazil and South Africa?
I'll give you a hint: not well.

Face it: multi-culturalism doesn't work (you claim to be anti-Communist from your flag und doch you embrace a tenant of Cultural Marxism?). I do not hate any race, but I believe that all races would be better off on their own rather than forced to live together.

Race =/= culture.

[Greater Cesnica]

Indeed. We need to put aside past prejudices and embrace a collective identity as Americans. Unfortunately, that seems like wishful thinking these days.

How well has a multi-racial identity worked for places like Brazil and South Africa?
I'll give you a hint: not well.

Face it: multi-culturalism doesn't work (you claim to be anti-Communist from your flag und doch you embrace a tenant of Cultural Marxism?). I do not hate any race, but I believe that all races would be better off on their own rather than forced to live together.

I would like to formally say you're deluded. I'm a brown Muslim dating a white non-Muslim. Ffs I'm not a criminal, rapist, thief, fundamentalist, radical, bigot, or Islamist. The problem here is values, not race. I didn't have a choice being in a western secular democracy, I was born in Canada. I'm not a freeloading immigrant. I work for a living, I support myself. I don't live off of the government teat. So don't try to justify removing us all from your homogenous homeland.

[Cappuccina]

I disagree with their persecution of Muslims (naturally), however I admire the PRC in general.

I don't really care about "popular legitimacy" to the same extent as most people in the West do.

So perhaps you admire rigid and strict totalitarism(?) with absolute beliefs in general?

Because thats the feeling I am getting from you, and that the strict rules and guidelines of the islamic religion do attract you to it.

Perhaps. Though it'd say "authoritarianism".

I disagree with their persecution of Muslims (naturally), however I admire the PRC in general.

I don't really care about "popular legitimacy" to the same extent as most people in the West do.

You admire them despite the fact they would force you to renounce your religion in a concentration camp?
This is like a Jew saying “I disagree with their persecution of Jews but I admire the Nazis”.

And what gives the PRC the right to get to oppress all Chinese people, even those outside its rule?
Not everyone else feels a need for oppressive rule to bring order to their life.

One can admire things about their enemies.

We're not going to agree here, I don't find liberal democracies to be appealing.

[Novus America]

So perhaps you admire rigid and strict totalitarism(?) with absolute beliefs in general?

Because thats the feeling I am getting from you, and that the strict rules and guidelines of the islamic religion do attract you to it.

Perhaps. Though it'd say "authoritarianism".

You admire them despite the fact they would force you to renounce your religion in a concentration camp?
This is like a Jew saying “I disagree with their persecution of Jews but I admire the Nazis”.

And what gives the PRC the right to get to oppress all Chinese people, even those outside its rule?
Not everyone else feels a need for oppressive rule to bring order to their life.

One can admire things about their enemies.

We're not going to agree here, I don't find liberal democracies to be appealing.

Okay, so you actually enjoy being oppressed?

One can admire certain things about their enemy, sure.
But do not want their enemy to win regardless.

[Genivaria]

If you claim to be a Muslim why are you shilling for a regime that throws Muslims in concentration camps?
The ROC is the one with popular legitimacy and rule of law.

I disagree with their persecution of Muslims (naturally), however I admire the PRC in general.

I don't really care about "popular legitimacy" to the same extent as most people in the West do.

I don't care for the silly notion that group X has a special right to oppress group X.

[Cappuccina]

How well has a multi-racial identity worked for places like Brazil and South Africa?
I'll give you a hint: not well.

Face it: multi-culturalism doesn't work (you claim to be anti-Communist from your flag und doch you embrace a tenant of Cultural Marxism?). I do not hate any race, but I believe that all races would be better off on their own rather than forced to live together.

Race =/= culture.

Culture is more important, tbh. Modern concepts of race are shallow, and phenotypic features prevalent now are only a few millennia old.

[The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord]

How well has a multi-racial identity worked for places like Brazil and South Africa?
I'll give you a hint: not well.

Face it: multi-culturalism doesn't work (you claim to be anti-Communist from your flag und doch you embrace a tenant of Cultural Marxism?). I do not hate any race, but I believe that all races would be better off on their own rather than forced to live together.

Race =/= culture.

How well has a multi-racial identity worked for places like Brazil and South Africa?
I'll give you a hint: not well.

Face it: multi-culturalism doesn't work (you claim to be anti-Communist from your flag und doch you embrace a tenant of Cultural Marxism?). I do not hate any race, but I believe that all races would be better off on their own rather than forced to live together.

I would like to formally say you're deluded. I'm a brown Muslim dating a white non-Muslim. Ffs I'm not a criminal, rapist, thief, fundamentalist, radical, bigot, or Islamist. The problem here is values, not race. I didn't have a choice being in a western secular democracy, I was born in Canada. I'm not a freeloading immigrant. I work for a living, I support myself. I don't live off of the government teat. So don't try to justify removing us all from your homogenous homeland.

Exactly! What matters is instilling a singular civic and cultural identity upon the citizenry so that they may be as brothers and sisters under the benevolent guidance of the state. And such like that; ethnic origin is irrelevant in this case, for what matters (as Novus and Cesnica said) is culture, is values. Provided all (or the vast majority, at least) citizens share a set of values things will be fine.

So perhaps you admire rigid and strict totalitarism(?) with absolute beliefs in general?

Because thats the feeling I am getting from you, and that the strict rules and guidelines of the islamic religion do attract you to it.

Perhaps. Though it'd say "authoritarianism".

You admire them despite the fact they would force you to renounce your religion in a concentration camp?
This is like a Jew saying “I disagree with their persecution of Jews but I admire the Nazis”.

And what gives the PRC the right to get to oppress all Chinese people, even those outside its rule?
Not everyone else feels a need for oppressive rule to bring order to their life.

One can admire things about their enemies.

We're not going to agree here, I don't find liberal democracies to be appealing.

I don't find liberal democracy to be appealing either... tbh, no state currently in existence meets my ideals and now I feel kind of sad the more I think about it.

[Nakena]

Perhaps. Though it'd say "authoritarianism".

I think we can agree on that term then.

One can admire things about their enemies.

We're not going to agree here, I don't find liberal democracies to be appealing.

Because their innert tendency towards relativism?

[Greater Cesnica]

Race =/= culture.

Culture is more important, tbh. Modern concepts of race are shallow, and phenotypic features prevalent now are only a few millennia old.

I don't care if you're white, black, Asian, brown, purple, the rainbow itself. Do you respect other people's right to pursue their own destiny? Do you respect the laws and culture of the land you live in? Are you a good person? If the answer to all three is yes, by all means immigrate to the country of your choice. Don't expect your host country to conform to you however.

[Novus America]

Culture is more important, tbh. Modern concepts of race are shallow, and phenotypic features prevalent now are only a few millennia old.

I don't care if you're white, black, Asian, brown, purple, the rainbow itself. Do you respect other people's right to pursue their own destiny? Do you respect the laws and culture of the land you live in? Are you a good person? If the answer to all three is yes, by all means immigrate to the country of your choice. Don't expect your host country to conform to you however.

Yes. Exactly this.

[The Grand Duchy Of Nova Capile]

Race =/= culture.

That doesn't have much to do with what I stated other than that I used the term multiculturalism, which, as far as I know, is the most appropriate term for what I was criticizing. I haven't ever heard the term multi-racialism used, but if it more accurately describes what I was criticizing, then sure. Otherwise, I have no idea what you're getting at.

I would like to formally say you're deluded. I'm a brown Muslim dating a white non-Muslim. Ffs I'm not a criminal, rapist, thief, fundamentalist, radical, bigot, or Islamist. The problem here is values, not race. I didn't have a choice being in a western secular democracy, I was born in Canada. I'm not a freeloading immigrant. I work for a living, I support myself. I don't live off of the government teat. So don't try to justify removing us all from your homogenous homeland.

I'd like to formally say that you're deluded, if you think that a personal anecdote constitutes evidence. I'm well aware that races are not monoliths, but the hard facts speak for themselves, and the exception is not the rule. Please never try to use an anecdote as evidence again.

[Novus America]

Race =/= culture.

I would like to formally say you're deluded. I'm a brown Muslim dating a white non-Muslim. Ffs I'm not a criminal, rapist, thief, fundamentalist, radical, bigot, or Islamist. The problem here is values, not race. I didn't have a choice being in a western secular democracy, I was born in Canada. I'm not a freeloading immigrant. I work for a living, I support myself. I don't live off of the government teat. So don't try to justify removing us all from your homogenous homeland.

Exactly! What matters is instilling a singular civic and cultural identity upon the citizenry so that they may be as brothers and sisters under the benevolent guidance of the state. And such like that; ethnic origin is irrelevant in this case, for what matters (as Novus and Cesnica said) is culture, is values. Provided all (or the vast majority, at least) citizens share a set of values things will be fine.

Perhaps. Though it'd say "authoritarianism".


One can admire things about their enemies.

We're not going to agree here, I don't find liberal democracies to be appealing.

I don't find liberal democracy to be appealing either... tbh, no state currently in existence meets my ideals and now I feel kind of sad the more I think about it.

I find the current form of liberal democracy lacking in many ways, but do not find totalitarian oppression by a sociopath like Xi appealing either.

[Kowani]

Culture is more important, tbh. Modern concepts of race are shallow, and phenotypic features prevalent now are only a few millennia old.

I don't care if you're white, black, Asian, brown, purple, the rainbow itself. Do you respect other people's right to pursue their own destiny? Do you respect the laws and culture of the land you live in? Are you a good person? If the answer to all three is yes, by all means immigrate to the country of your choice. Don't expect your host country to conform to you however.

If someone is purple or rainbow colored, that’s a pretty bad skin condition.

[Greater Cesnica]

Race =/= culture.

That doesn't have much to do with what I stated other than that I used the term multiculturalism, which, as far as I know, is the most appropriate term for what I was criticizing. I haven't ever heard the term multi-racialism used, but if it more accurately describes what I was criticizing, then sure. Otherwise, I have no idea what you're getting at.

I would like to formally say you're deluded. I'm a brown Muslim dating a white non-Muslim. Ffs I'm not a criminal, rapist, thief, fundamentalist, radical, bigot, or Islamist. The problem here is values, not race. I didn't have a choice being in a western secular democracy, I was born in Canada. I'm not a freeloading immigrant. I work for a living, I support myself. I don't live off of the government teat. So don't try to justify removing us all from your homogenous homeland.

I'd like to formally say that you're deluded, if you think that a personal anecdote constitutes evidence. I'm well aware that races are not monoliths, but the hard facts speak for themselves, and the exception is not the rule. Please never try to use an anecdote as evidence again.

How many immigrants do you know on a personal level may I ask?

[Greater Cesnica]

I don't care if you're white, black, Asian, brown, purple, the rainbow itself. Do you respect other people's right to pursue their own destiny? Do you respect the laws and culture of the land you live in? Are you a good person? If the answer to all three is yes, by all means immigrate to the country of your choice. Don't expect your host country to conform to you however.

If someone is purple or rainbow colored, that’s a pretty bad skin condition.

Either that or they got some sick power up in Mario Kart 7.