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Right-Wing Discussion Thread XVI: Making Things Right Again

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Do you consider nationalism and patriotism synoymous?

Yes- I am a nationalist and a patriot
115
26%
No- I am a nationalist and a patriot
52
12%
No- I am a nationalist, not a patriot
43
10%
No- I am a patriot, not a nationalist
147
33%
Yes- I am neither a nationalist nor a patriot
18
4%
No- I am neither a nationalist nor a patriot
68
15%
 
Total votes : 443

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Bienenhalde
Senator
 
Posts: 3875
Founded: Mar 11, 2017
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Bienenhalde » Wed May 22, 2019 9:10 am

Fahran wrote:Look, OEP. All I want is a Texas that combines the best of Anglo, Latin, Central European, and other relevant cultures together. We're the closest thing to a Seleucid Empire or Ptolemaic Empire in a millennia except we have tacos that are better than California's and, to be honest, as good as Mexico's. We're the best culture and must ascend to the heights of greatness.


What would you think about Texas being restored to the Mexican Empire?
Bienenhalde (mostly) represents my real political views.
https://8values.github.io/results.html?e=75.6&d=68.6&g=38.8&s=45.2
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Nea Byzantia
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5185
Founded: Jun 03, 2016
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Nea Byzantia » Wed May 22, 2019 9:20 am

North German Realm wrote:
Fahran wrote:We've discussed a few facets of culture, nationalism, and the human experience on the RWDT, including subjects as scattered as music, art, history, language, and identity, but I thought it might be nice to broaden the field a bit by broaching a subject that normally isn't foremost in our minds - unless y'all are foodies like me. Do you believe that there are any particular dishes or cuisine that possess special significance to your nation, heritage, or to the more general human spirit?

One can learn many things about a culture based on their culinary traditions. There are (to use the simplest example) a lot of noticable differences between people who eat an ox's leg whole with people who mince and/or dice it to the point of insanity, not all of them even related to the fact the two cultures can't have the same type of access to firewood.

Image

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Painisia
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1596
Founded: Nov 02, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Painisia » Wed May 22, 2019 9:38 am

Many Traditionalists and those on the Right portray the Concert of Europe (1815-1848,1871-1914) as the last decade for their waif Royal Medieval Europe. I would argue that many elements of Old Europe survived WW2 and lasted into the Post-War Europe. Charles De Gaulle was the last ruler from the "Europe Ancien".

What followed him was a generation of Eurocrats who worked for the consolidation of the European Union and who wanted to throw the Old Nationalist Europe in history's garbage bin.

I believe that in the future (2020s to 2030s), Europe would again be teared apart by two berilligents: the Pro-European progressives and the "Europe Ancien"-nostalgic nationalists (The Identitarian Movement). The future would be exciting....
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Fahran
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6368
Founded: Nov 13, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Fahran » Wed May 22, 2019 9:56 am

Bienenhalde wrote:What would you think about Texas being restored to the Mexican Empire?

I would rather eat every boot in my closet.
The Claw is the LAW!!!

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Nea Byzantia
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5185
Founded: Jun 03, 2016
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Nea Byzantia » Wed May 22, 2019 10:17 am

Painisia wrote:Many Traditionalists and those on the Right portray the Concert of Europe (1815-1848,1871-1914) as the last decade for their waif Royal Medieval Europe. I would argue that many elements of Old Europe survived WW2 and lasted into the Post-War Europe. Charles De Gaulle was the last ruler from the "Europe Ancien".

What followed him was a generation of Eurocrats who worked for the consolidation of the European Union and who wanted to throw the Old Nationalist Europe in history's garbage bin.

I believe that in the future (2020s to 2030s), Europe would again be teared apart by two berilligents: the Pro-European progressives and the "Europe Ancien"-nostalgic nationalists (The Identitarian Movement). The future would be exciting....

I find this idea, intriguing. I could very much see this turning out as well...

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North German Realm
Minister
 
Posts: 2965
Founded: Jan 27, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby North German Realm » Wed May 22, 2019 10:19 am

Bienenhalde wrote:
Fahran wrote:Look, OEP. All I want is a Texas that combines the best of Anglo, Latin, Central European, and other relevant cultures together. We're the closest thing to a Seleucid Empire or Ptolemaic Empire in a millennia except we have tacos that are better than California's and, to be honest, as good as Mexico's. We're the best culture and must ascend to the heights of greatness.


What would you think about Texas being restored to the Mexican Empire?

Only if we give back the rest of the Mexican Cession along with it.
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North Germany
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Novus America
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26752
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Wed May 22, 2019 10:28 am

North German Realm wrote:
Bienenhalde wrote:
What would you think about Texas being restored to the Mexican Empire?

Only if we give back the rest of the Mexican Cession along with it.


Why the hell would we do that?

Mexico can just unite with the US.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

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Nea Byzantia
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Posts: 5185
Founded: Jun 03, 2016
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Nea Byzantia » Wed May 22, 2019 10:30 am

Novus America wrote:
North German Realm wrote:Only if we give back the rest of the Mexican Cession along with it.


Why the hell would we do that?

Mexico can just unite with the US.

I highly doubt the Mexicans would go for that...

User avatar
Bienenhalde
Senator
 
Posts: 3875
Founded: Mar 11, 2017
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Bienenhalde » Wed May 22, 2019 10:33 am

Novus America wrote:
North German Realm wrote:Only if we give back the rest of the Mexican Cession along with it.


Why the hell would we do that?

Mexico can just unite with the US.


No...they should remain independent. And restore the House of Iturbide!
Bienenhalde (mostly) represents my real political views.
https://8values.github.io/results.html?e=75.6&d=68.6&g=38.8&s=45.2
OOC:
[*]Age: 24 [*]Pennsylvania Dutch [*]ELCA Lutheran [*]Male [*]Bisexual - leaning towards gay [*]Independent [*]Sinophile-Japanophile [*]Monarchist [*]Has Asperger's

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Novus America
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26752
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Wed May 22, 2019 10:33 am

Nea Byzantia wrote:
Novus America wrote:
Why the hell would we do that?

Mexico can just unite with the US.

I highly doubt the Mexicans would go for that...


Well that is the only way they can reunite with there former territories and also get an open border with the US and all. But yes, at least for now most have decided that they would rather be poorer and all cause reasons and whatever. Hopefully we can convince them to see the light eventually.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

User avatar
Nea Byzantia
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5185
Founded: Jun 03, 2016
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Nea Byzantia » Wed May 22, 2019 10:38 am

Novus America wrote:
Nea Byzantia wrote:I highly doubt the Mexicans would go for that...


Well that is the only way they can reunite with there former territories and also get an open border with the US and all. But yes, at least for now most have decided that they would rather be poorer and all cause reasons and whatever. Hopefully we can convince them to see the light eventually.

Said reasons and whatever, are the same thing that cause you to love your Nation: Patriotism...They're as proud to be Mexican as you are to be American; and they'd rather be poor but Mexican, than rich, but American.
Last edited by Nea Byzantia on Wed May 22, 2019 10:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Conserative Morality
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 76675
Founded: Aug 24, 2007
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Conserative Morality » Wed May 22, 2019 10:40 am

Nea Byzantia wrote:
Novus America wrote:
Well that is the only way they can reunite with there former territories and also get an open border with the US and all. But yes, at least for now most have decided that they would rather be poorer and all cause reasons and whatever. Hopefully we can convince them to see the light eventually.

Said reasons and whatever, are the same thing that cause you to love your Nation: Patriotism...They're as proud to be Mexican as you are to be American; and they'd rather be poor but Mexican, than rich, but American.

33% of Mexicans when polled said they would move to the US if they could.

So press X to doubt.
On the hate train. Choo choo, bitches. Bi-Polar. Proud Crypto-Fascist and Turbo Progressive. Dirty Étatist. Lowly Humanities Major. NSG's Best Liberal.
Caesar and Imperator of RWDT
Got a blog up again. || An NS Writing Discussion

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Nea Byzantia
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5185
Founded: Jun 03, 2016
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Nea Byzantia » Wed May 22, 2019 10:41 am

Conserative Morality wrote:
Nea Byzantia wrote:Said reasons and whatever, are the same thing that cause you to love your Nation: Patriotism...They're as proud to be Mexican as you are to be American; and they'd rather be poor but Mexican, than rich, but American.

33% of Mexicans when polled said they would move to the US if they could.

So press X to doubt.

33% is still a minority of the Mexican People...My point still stands.

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Novus America
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26752
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Wed May 22, 2019 10:44 am

Nea Byzantia wrote:
Novus America wrote:
Well that is the only way they can reunite with there former territories and also get an open border with the US and all. But yes, at least for now most have decided that they would rather be poorer and all cause reasons and whatever. Hopefully we can convince them to see the light eventually.

Said reasons and whatever, are the same thing that cause you to love your Nation: Patriotism...They're as proud to be Mexican as you are to be American; and they'd rather be poor but Mexican, than rich, but American.


The issue is the Texans can be proud to be Texan patriots AND American patriots.
They would still be Mexican. The US is a nation of nations.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

User avatar
Nea Byzantia
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5185
Founded: Jun 03, 2016
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Nea Byzantia » Wed May 22, 2019 10:45 am

Novus America wrote:
Nea Byzantia wrote:Said reasons and whatever, are the same thing that cause you to love your Nation: Patriotism...They're as proud to be Mexican as you are to be American; and they'd rather be poor but Mexican, than rich, but American.


The issue is the Texans can be proud to be Texan patriots AND American patriots.
They would still be Mexican. The US is a nation of nations.

Rome also became a "Nation of Nations" - in other words, an Empire.

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Conserative Morality
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 76675
Founded: Aug 24, 2007
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Conserative Morality » Wed May 22, 2019 10:47 am

Nea Byzantia wrote:33% is still a minority of the Mexican People...My point still stands.

33% are the ones who would move if given the chance. As in, pull up their roots, abandon all that they know as familiar, and go to some entirely new region with new people and foreign standards. How many people of the remainder, do you think, would feel offended if the US government came to them instead? If it's less than 50%, we win.
On the hate train. Choo choo, bitches. Bi-Polar. Proud Crypto-Fascist and Turbo Progressive. Dirty Étatist. Lowly Humanities Major. NSG's Best Liberal.
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Got a blog up again. || An NS Writing Discussion

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Novus America
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26752
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Wed May 22, 2019 10:47 am

Nea Byzantia wrote:
Conserative Morality wrote:33% of Mexicans when polled said they would move to the US if they could.

So press X to doubt.

33% is still a minority of the Mexican People...My point still stands.


“57%) say that people who move from Mexico enjoy a better life in the U.S.”

Sure 33% is a minority but it is a great start.

We just need to convince 18% more, and those already believe the US is better.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

User avatar
Nea Byzantia
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5185
Founded: Jun 03, 2016
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Nea Byzantia » Wed May 22, 2019 10:49 am

Novus America wrote:
Nea Byzantia wrote:33% is still a minority of the Mexican People...My point still stands.


“57%) say that people who move from Mexico enjoy a better life in the U.S.”

Sure 33% is a minority but it is a great start.

We just need to convince 18% more, and those already believe the US is better.

Economically maybe...

User avatar
Novus America
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26752
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Wed May 22, 2019 10:49 am

Nea Byzantia wrote:
Novus America wrote:
The issue is the Texans can be proud to be Texan patriots AND American patriots.
They would still be Mexican. The US is a nation of nations.

Rome also became a "Nation of Nations" - in other words, an Empire.


Well a voluntary nation of nations is usually not an Empire.
And your point would be? Was Rome not great at one time?

Why is a lover of Empire opposes to it?
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

User avatar
Bienenhalde
Senator
 
Posts: 3875
Founded: Mar 11, 2017
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Bienenhalde » Wed May 22, 2019 10:50 am

Novus America wrote:
Nea Byzantia wrote:Said reasons and whatever, are the same thing that cause you to love your Nation: Patriotism...They're as proud to be Mexican as you are to be American; and they'd rather be poor but Mexican, than rich, but American.


The issue is the Texans can be proud to be Texan patriots AND American patriots.
They would still be Mexican. The US is a nation of nations.


Mexico has considerable regional diversity and a federal system of government as well.
Bienenhalde (mostly) represents my real political views.
https://8values.github.io/results.html?e=75.6&d=68.6&g=38.8&s=45.2
OOC:
[*]Age: 24 [*]Pennsylvania Dutch [*]ELCA Lutheran [*]Male [*]Bisexual - leaning towards gay [*]Independent [*]Sinophile-Japanophile [*]Monarchist [*]Has Asperger's

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Nea Byzantia
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5185
Founded: Jun 03, 2016
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Nea Byzantia » Wed May 22, 2019 10:50 am

Novus America wrote:
Nea Byzantia wrote:Rome also became a "Nation of Nations" - in other words, an Empire.


Well a voluntary nation of nations is usually not an Empire.
And your point would be? Was Rome not great at one time?

Why is a lover of Empire opposes to it?

I'm not necessarily opposed to it. But America is not a Nation as it once was.

User avatar
Nea Byzantia
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5185
Founded: Jun 03, 2016
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Nea Byzantia » Wed May 22, 2019 10:50 am

Bienenhalde wrote:
Novus America wrote:
The issue is the Texans can be proud to be Texan patriots AND American patriots.
They would still be Mexican. The US is a nation of nations.


Mexico has considerable regional diversity and a federal system of government as well.

But is it a "Nation of Nations"?

User avatar
Conserative Morality
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 76675
Founded: Aug 24, 2007
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Conserative Morality » Wed May 22, 2019 10:51 am

Nea Byzantia wrote:
Novus America wrote:
Well a voluntary nation of nations is usually not an Empire.
And your point would be? Was Rome not great at one time?

Why is a lover of Empire opposes to it?

I'm not necessarily opposed to it. But America is not a Nation as it once was.

America was never a 'nation' in that narrow old-world ethnonationalist sense.
On the hate train. Choo choo, bitches. Bi-Polar. Proud Crypto-Fascist and Turbo Progressive. Dirty Étatist. Lowly Humanities Major. NSG's Best Liberal.
Caesar and Imperator of RWDT
Got a blog up again. || An NS Writing Discussion

User avatar
Novus America
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26752
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Wed May 22, 2019 10:52 am

Nea Byzantia wrote:
Novus America wrote:
“57%) say that people who move from Mexico enjoy a better life in the U.S.”

Sure 33% is a minority but it is a great start.

We just need to convince 18% more, and those already believe the US is better.

Economically maybe...


One of the most important things really. If you cannot provide a good enough life for people you cannot keep them forever. Circuses alone are not adequate without bread.

We just need to assuage their other concerns, but for most people economic concerns are a really big deal
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

User avatar
Nea Byzantia
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5185
Founded: Jun 03, 2016
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Nea Byzantia » Wed May 22, 2019 10:52 am

Conserative Morality wrote:
Nea Byzantia wrote:I'm not necessarily opposed to it. But America is not a Nation as it once was.

America was never a 'nation' in that narrow old-world ethnonationalist sense.

True. So it was always a "Nation of Nations", it was always an Empire.

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