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Right-Wing Discussion Thread XVI: Making Things Right Again

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Do you consider nationalism and patriotism synoymous?

Yes- I am a nationalist and a patriot
115
26%
No- I am a nationalist and a patriot
52
12%
No- I am a nationalist, not a patriot
43
10%
No- I am a patriot, not a nationalist
147
33%
Yes- I am neither a nationalist nor a patriot
18
4%
No- I am neither a nationalist nor a patriot
68
15%
 
Total votes : 443

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The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord
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Posts: 6290
Founded: Jul 22, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord » Tue May 14, 2019 12:01 pm

Nea Byzantia wrote:
The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord wrote:
If I may, and please forgive me if I seem boorish, but I find the explanation of "it's just a figure of speech" to be unlikely, especially given one of Dugin's influences, the fascist turbo-mystic Evola.

Why did Evola reject Metaphor and Abstraction?


My apologies if my syntax was unclear, do allow me to rephrase it. My intended meaning was that Evola, who heavily influenced Dugin's work, was a hardcore esotericist/occultist; as such, I find the interpretation that "it's just a figure of speech" to be unlikely because Dugin and Evola genuinely believe in such... erm… would "mysticisms" be the right term?

Zordennox wrote:I have some reading suggestions that might be good to add onto this thread, Old Tyrannia.

Revolt Against the Modern World, Julius Evola
https://www.amazon.com/Revolt-Against-M ... 089281506X

Political Theology, Carl Schmitt
https://www.amazon.com/Political-Theolo ... 0226738892

Ethnos and Society, Aleksandr Dugin
https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/ethnos ... 1128075499


I find it rather bizarre that you decided to join the thread while we were discussing their works. Nevertheless (and despite our seeming ideological differences), I wish you welcome.
< THE HIGH SWAGLORD | 8VALUES | POLITISCALES >
My NS stats are not indicative of my OOC views. NS stats are meant to be rather silly. My OOC political and ideological inspirations are as such:
The Republic, by Plato | Leviathan, by Thomas Hobbes | The Confucian civil service system of imperial China | The "Golden Liberty" elective
monarchy system of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth | The corporatist/technocratic philosophy of Henri de Saint-Simon | The communitarian
ideological framework of the Singaporean People's Action Party | "New Deal"-style societal regimentation | Kantian/Mohist/Stoic philosophy

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Zordennox
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Founded: Sep 01, 2018
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Zordennox » Tue May 14, 2019 12:05 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Zordennox wrote:I have some reading suggestions that might be good to add onto this thread, Old Tyrannia.

Revolt Against the Modern World, Julius Evola
https://www.amazon.com/Revolt-Against-M ... 089281506X


ngl I'm actually planning to dive into Evola once I finish up with Dugin's silliness. I've heard some amusing things about the superfascist and it'll be nice to see how true it all is.


Evola was very critical of fascism at times. He wrote about fascism in his book, Fascism Viewed From the Right. Evola was a traditionalist in the truest sense of the word.
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Duhon
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Postby Duhon » Tue May 14, 2019 12:06 pm

Zordennox wrote:
The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord wrote:
No, as in the actual physical world. As in, Dugin's ultimate goal is to unmake reality itself. Pardon my language, but that shit's wack my dude.


No, Dugin's plan is not to unmake reality, but to return to a previous, sacred existence. Dugin rejects the relativism and nihilism of modernity. This does not make him a nihilist for opposing nihilism.


Yes, yes, physics is nihilist, blah blah blah, his wanting to divorce the world from any sense of reality mere esoteric obfuscation for the ideological noob, blah blah blah, no way a man with a beard who once hobnobbed with Moscow's who's who can be an actual batshit arsonist, blah blah blah.

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Novus America
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Tue May 14, 2019 12:08 pm

Zordennox wrote:
The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord wrote:
No, as in the actual physical world. As in, Dugin's ultimate goal is to unmake reality itself. Pardon my language, but that shit's wack my dude.


No, Dugin's plan is not to unmake reality, but to return to a previous, sacred existence. Dugin rejects the relativism and nihilism of modernity. This does not make him a nihilist for opposing nihilism.


Well Dugin outright rejects the idea of objective reality.
Very Post Modern.

But the only way to “return” to his magical existence would involve unmaking the physical world we live in of course, and as he explicitly states.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

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Nea Byzantia
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Founded: Jun 03, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Nea Byzantia » Tue May 14, 2019 12:14 pm

Novus America wrote:
Zordennox wrote:
No, Dugin's plan is not to unmake reality, but to return to a previous, sacred existence. Dugin rejects the relativism and nihilism of modernity. This does not make him a nihilist for opposing nihilism.


Well Dugin outright rejects the idea of objective reality.
Very Post Modern.

But the only way to “return” to his magical existence would involve unmaking the physical world we live in of course, and as he explicitly states.

In what sense, though? If he means return to a more communal, spiritual existence, and reject Modernity with its materialism and hedonism, isn't that in a sense, "unmaking the physical world" -at least as we've come to see it today? As in, undoing the modern, materialistic, reductionist view of the World and the Cosmos.

You're choosing the most literal meaning to interpret what he's saying. You're forgetting he's also into the esoteric and the philosophical; which means his works are probably heavy laden with metaphors and symbols.
Last edited by Nea Byzantia on Tue May 14, 2019 12:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord
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Founded: Jul 22, 2016
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Postby The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord » Tue May 14, 2019 12:19 pm

Nea Byzantia wrote:
Novus America wrote:
Well Dugin outright rejects the idea of objective reality.
Very Post Modern.

But the only way to “return” to his magical existence would involve unmaking the physical world we live in of course, and as he explicitly states.

In what sense, though? If he means return to a more communal, spiritual existence, and reject Modernity with its materialism and hedonism, isn't that in a sense, "unmaking the physical world" -at least as we've come to see it today? As in, undoing the modern, materialistic, reductionist view of the World and the Cosmos.

You're choosing the most literal meaning to interpret what he's saying. You're forgetting he's also into the esoteric and the philosophical; which means his works are probably heavy laden with metaphors and symbols.


If we're to discuss various manners of philosophical and political writing, I must disclose (in a statement that will likely be unsurprising to most of the regulars of this thread) that I prefer precise legalese and technical language to figures of speech and esoteric symbolism.
< THE HIGH SWAGLORD | 8VALUES | POLITISCALES >
My NS stats are not indicative of my OOC views. NS stats are meant to be rather silly. My OOC political and ideological inspirations are as such:
The Republic, by Plato | Leviathan, by Thomas Hobbes | The Confucian civil service system of imperial China | The "Golden Liberty" elective
monarchy system of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth | The corporatist/technocratic philosophy of Henri de Saint-Simon | The communitarian
ideological framework of the Singaporean People's Action Party | "New Deal"-style societal regimentation | Kantian/Mohist/Stoic philosophy

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Old Tyrannia
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Posts: 15372
Founded: Aug 11, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Old Tyrannia » Tue May 14, 2019 12:20 pm

Zordennox wrote:I have some reading suggestions that might be good to add onto this thread, Old Tyrannia.

Revolt Against the Modern World, Julius Evola
https://www.amazon.com/Revolt-Against-M ... 089281506X

Political Theology, Carl Schmitt
https://www.amazon.com/Political-Theolo ... 0226738892

Ethnos and Society, Aleksandr Dugin
https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/ethnos ... 1128075499

I've added the first two, but I didn't include Dugin on the grounds that he isn't widely influential, nor is his work by any means "accessible" to those new to political philosophy.
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Hanafuridake
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Founded: Sep 09, 2018
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Hanafuridake » Tue May 14, 2019 12:20 pm

Duhon wrote:
Hanafuridake wrote:
Because I like actual traditions and not esoteric Hyperborean god-men teachings.


Look, a flaming turd is still a turd, Hana...


Yes, yes, a 2500 year old religious tradition which has developed theories about time, atomism, ethics, and psychology is the same thing as some New Age cultist who believes that reality is a figment of his imagination.
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Novus America
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Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Tue May 14, 2019 12:20 pm

Nea Byzantia wrote:
Novus America wrote:
Well Dugin outright rejects the idea of objective reality.
Very Post Modern.

But the only way to “return” to his magical existence would involve unmaking the physical world we live in of course, and as he explicitly states.

In what sense, though? If he means return to a more communal, spiritual existence, and reject Modernity with its materialism and hedonism, isn't that in a sense, "unmaking the physical world"?


It is a return to something that never happened.
A return to a magical society that never existed.
And again you are skipping over his open talk of dying to get there.

It is quite clear he means unmaking the actual physical world, which he rejects
"If we want to liberate ourselves from the West, it is needed to liberate ourselves from textbooks on physics and chemistry."

It is a rejection of physical reality entirely.

Honestly it would be good for us if Russia actually practiced that part.

I will take evil weapons made from chemistry and physics over Chaos magic.
Last edited by Novus America on Tue May 14, 2019 12:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

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The New California Republic
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Posts: 27756
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Tue May 14, 2019 12:21 pm

New poll?
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

NS Hitman
White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
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Old Tyrannia
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Founded: Aug 11, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Old Tyrannia » Tue May 14, 2019 12:26 pm

The New California Republic wrote:New poll?

Any suggestions?
Ascended to Modhood on the 14th September 2016
The Grand Fascist Empire of Old Tyrannia
⚜ IMPERIVM MAGNVM FASCISTICVM TYRANNIAE ANTIQVAE
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Novus America
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Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Tue May 14, 2019 12:27 pm

Nea Byzantia wrote:
Novus America wrote:
Well Dugin outright rejects the idea of objective reality.
Very Post Modern.

But the only way to “return” to his magical existence would involve unmaking the physical world we live in of course, and as he explicitly states.

In what sense, though? If he means return to a more communal, spiritual existence, and reject Modernity with its materialism and hedonism, isn't that in a sense, "unmaking the physical world" -at least as we've come to see it today? As in, undoing the modern, materialistic, reductionist view of the World and the Cosmos.

You're choosing the most literal meaning to interpret what he's saying. You're forgetting he's also into the esoteric and the philosophical; which means his works are probably heavy laden with metaphors and symbols.


He literally says it is not a metaphor
“Thus the Fourth Political Theory may easily turn towards everything that preceded modernity in order to draw its inspiration.… When it returns, postmodernity (globalisation, postliberalism, and the post-industrial society) is easily recognized as ‘the kingdom of the Antichrist’ (or its counterparts in other religions — ‘Dajjal’ for Muslims, ‘Erev Rav’ for the Jews, and ‘Kali Yuga’ for Hindus, and so forth). This is not simply a metaphor capable of mobilising the masses, but a religious fact — the fact of the Apocalypse.”

It is a literal rejection of reality
“What is the manifestation of the Fourth Political Practice? It is a principle to be revealed. In what aspect is the myth realised as ritual? It becomes theurgic fact (let us recognise that Neoplatonic theurgy is the reanimation of statues). What is activity as mentality? It is the idea that thoughts are magic, that thoughts can change reality; it is the suggestion that thoughts replace reality as fact.”
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

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Duhon
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Founded: Nov 21, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Duhon » Tue May 14, 2019 12:27 pm

Hanafuridake wrote:
Duhon wrote:
Look, a flaming turd is still a turd, Hana...


Yes, yes, a 2500 year old religious tradition which has developed theories about time, atomism, ethics, and psychology is the same thing as some New Age cultist who believes that reality is a figment of his imagination.


... actually, I made that post to refer to Dugin's whatchamacaliit, but I can't remember for what, precisely. Definitely not talking about the "actual traditions", no.

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Nea Byzantia
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Postby Nea Byzantia » Tue May 14, 2019 12:43 pm

Old Tyrannia wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:New poll?

Any suggestions?

Which system of Government most represents your views?

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Old Tyrannia
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Postby Old Tyrannia » Tue May 14, 2019 12:46 pm

Nea Byzantia wrote:
Old Tyrannia wrote:Any suggestions?

Which system of Government most represents your views?

That's much too broad a question, and we've had similar polls before.
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Valrifell
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby Valrifell » Tue May 14, 2019 12:49 pm

Old Tyrannia wrote:
Nea Byzantia wrote:Which system of Government most represents your views?

That's much too broad a question, and we've had similar polls before.


Most tolerable leftist theorist/state?
For the benefit of all humankind

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Old Tyrannia
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Postby Old Tyrannia » Tue May 14, 2019 12:51 pm

Valrifell wrote:
Old Tyrannia wrote:That's much too broad a question, and we've had similar polls before.


Most tolerable leftist theorist/state?

I'm pretty sure we've had similar questions to those before, as well.
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The Grand Fascist Empire of Old Tyrannia
⚜ IMPERIVM MAGNVM FASCISTICVM TYRANNIAE ANTIQVAE
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Washington Resistance Army
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Tue May 14, 2019 12:54 pm

Old Tyrannia wrote:
Valrifell wrote:
Most tolerable leftist theorist/state?

I'm pretty sure we've had similar questions to those before, as well.


We've had 16 threads lol, there's not a lot of new ideas we can come up with.
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The New California Republic
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Tue May 14, 2019 1:00 pm

Old Tyrannia wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:New poll?

Any suggestions?

Favourite RW author?
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

NS Hitman
White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

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Joohan
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Founded: Jan 11, 2018
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Joohan » Tue May 14, 2019 1:08 pm

Novus America wrote:
Nea Byzantia wrote:In what sense, though? If he means return to a more communal, spiritual existence, and reject Modernity with its materialism and hedonism, isn't that in a sense, "unmaking the physical world" -at least as we've come to see it today? As in, undoing the modern, materialistic, reductionist view of the World and the Cosmos.

You're choosing the most literal meaning to interpret what he's saying. You're forgetting he's also into the esoteric and the philosophical; which means his works are probably heavy laden with metaphors and symbols.


He literally says it is not a metaphor
“Thus the Fourth Political Theory may easily turn towards everything that preceded modernity in order to draw its inspiration.… When it returns, postmodernity (globalisation, postliberalism, and the post-industrial society) is easily recognized as ‘the kingdom of the Antichrist’ (or its counterparts in other religions — ‘Dajjal’ for Muslims, ‘Erev Rav’ for the Jews, and ‘Kali Yuga’ for Hindus, and so forth). This is not simply a metaphor capable of mobilising the masses, but a religious fact — the fact of the Apocalypse.”

It is a literal rejection of reality
“What is the manifestation of the Fourth Political Practice? It is a principle to be revealed. In what aspect is the myth realised as ritual? It becomes theurgic fact (let us recognise that Neoplatonic theurgy is the reanimation of statues). What is activity as mentality? It is the idea that thoughts are magic, that thoughts can change reality; it is the suggestion that thoughts replace reality as fact.”


I'm not a duginist - but the aforementioned info does seem more like he just wants to destroy the current global order - not literal reality.
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Benuty
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Benuty » Tue May 14, 2019 1:16 pm

Sometime on one of the incarnations of the RWDT, a poster linked an op-ed portraying Hitler as a racial anarchist. Despite the absurdity of the idea it was a good read nonetheless, but for clarification's sake who posted it? Also what other kooky political theories about dictators do you all have?
Last edited by Benuty on Tue May 14, 2019 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Last edited by Hashem 13.8 billion years ago
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Benuty
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Benuty » Tue May 14, 2019 1:19 pm

Novus America wrote:As far as Dugin goes he is the Russian version of L. Ron Hubbard really.

That's unfair to Hubbard since the man invented Scientology as a take that to psychiatry for not getting treatment.
Last edited by Benuty on Tue May 14, 2019 1:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Last edited by Hashem 13.8 billion years ago
King of Madness in the Right Wing Discussion Thread. Winner of 2016 Posters Award for Insanity.
Please be aware my posts in NSG, and P2TM are separate.

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Evil Dictators Happyland
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Evil Dictators Happyland » Tue May 14, 2019 2:23 pm

Benuty wrote:
Novus America wrote:As far as Dugin goes he is the Russian version of L. Ron Hubbard really.

That's unfair to Hubbard since the man invented Scientology as a take that to psychiatry for not getting treatment.

I thought he did it because someone bet him that he couldn't create a religion people would follow, and then he started denying it once he realized how profitable Scientology was.
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The New California Republic
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Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Tue May 14, 2019 2:28 pm

Evil Dictators Happyland wrote:
Benuty wrote:That's unfair to Hubbard since the man invented Scientology as a take that to psychiatry for not getting treatment.

I thought he did it because someone bet him that he couldn't create a religion people would follow, and then he started denying it once he realized how profitable Scientology was.

George Lucas missed a trick. He should have turned Jediism into an actual religion. Mind you, he sold Star Wars to Disney for $4 billion, so he isn't short of cash.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

NS Hitman
White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

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LiberNovusAmericae
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Founded: Mar 10, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Tue May 14, 2019 3:00 pm

Evil Dictators Happyland wrote:
Benuty wrote:That's unfair to Hubbard since the man invented Scientology as a take that to psychiatry for not getting treatment.

I thought he did it because someone bet him that he couldn't create a religion people would follow, and then he started denying it once he realized how profitable Scientology was.

L. Ron Hubbard wrote:Writing for a penny a word is ridiculous. If a man really wanted to make a million dollars, the best way to do it would be start his own religion.
China Lied, People Died.
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