Western society is much more moral, from where I'm standing.
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by The Xenopolis Confederation » Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:27 pm
by Totally Not OEP » Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:59 pm
by ECKU » Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:01 am
by Cappuccina » Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:25 am
by Nakena » Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:27 am
Cappuccina wrote:Western "morality" will kill humanity, IMHO. It has a tendency towards nihilist and hedonistic life that will rob mankind of a direction, a fulfilling raison d'etre that man craves.
Cappuccina wrote:While I agree that momentary lapses of faith can grow one's soul, that is only after a reconciliation in our relationship with God (swt) that such ventures can have any profound meaning.
Cappuccina wrote:The West has lost any interest in such a return, and thus any insight is wasted on frivolity and worldly pursuits.
by The Xenopolis Confederation » Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:31 am
Cappuccina wrote:Where are you standing?
by Cappuccina » Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:36 am
Nakena wrote:Cappuccina wrote:Western "morality" will kill humanity, IMHO. It has a tendency towards nihilist and hedonistic life that will rob mankind of a direction, a fulfilling raison d'etre that man craves.
I am not disagreeing.Cappuccina wrote:While I agree that momentary lapses of faith can grow one's soul, that is only after a reconciliation in our relationship with God (swt) that such ventures can have any profound meaning.
It depends however which one. Not all have the best intentions for Mankind. Some just want a planet full of obedient drones. Unfortunatly those have been rather sucessfull.Cappuccina wrote:The West has lost any interest in such a return, and thus any insight is wasted on frivolity and worldly pursuits.
Return to what? Drone like obedience and slave mentality? At least the current situation allows for better things to grow and prosper.
by Nakena » Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:57 am
Cappuccina wrote:Too many people see and care only for their material benefit, that is the nature of our short sighted so called morality in the modern world, the western world. Yet we wonder why their lives are empty, why there is a gapping hole.
by Turbofolkia » Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:23 am
Cappuccina wrote:Western "morality" will kill humanity, IMHO. It has a tendency towards nihilist and hedonistic life that will rob mankind of a direction, a fulfilling raison d'etre that man craves.
by Hanafuridake » Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:31 am
Anattalakkhana Sutra wrote:“How do you construe thus, monks -- Are [body, feeling, mental processes, consciousness] constant or inconstant?”
“Inconstant, lord.”
“And is that which is inconstant easeful or stressful?”
“Stressful, lord.”
“And is it fitting to regard what is inconstant, stressful, subject to change as: 'this is mine. This is my self. This is what I am'?”
“No, lord.”
Suriyanakhon's alt, finally found my old account's password李贽 wrote:There is nothing difficult about becoming a sage, and nothing false about transcending the world of appearances.
by Painisia » Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:56 am
Turbofolkia wrote:Cappuccina wrote:Western "morality" will kill humanity, IMHO. It has a tendency towards nihilist and hedonistic life that will rob mankind of a direction, a fulfilling raison d'etre that man craves.
I don't think there is such a thing as "Western morality". Not everywhere in the West is as individualistic and materialistic as the United States, for example (and I'm not saying that in a disparaging way at all). One could also argue that modern China is far more nihilistic and hedonistic than most places in the West.
-Christian DemocratFormerly, the nation of Painisia November 2017 - August 2019
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by Turbofolkia » Sat Jul 13, 2019 4:24 am
Painisia wrote:Turbofolkia wrote:I don't think there is such a thing as "Western morality". Not everywhere in the West is as individualistic and materialistic as the United States, for example (and I'm not saying that in a disparaging way at all). One could also argue that modern China is far more nihilistic and hedonistic than most places in the West.
But isn't modern China`s nihilism and hedonism a result of the influence of Western Capitalism?
by Nakena » Sat Jul 13, 2019 4:27 am
by Novus America » Sat Jul 13, 2019 4:36 am
Painisia wrote:Turbofolkia wrote:I don't think there is such a thing as "Western morality". Not everywhere in the West is as individualistic and materialistic as the United States, for example (and I'm not saying that in a disparaging way at all). One could also argue that modern China is far more nihilistic and hedonistic than most places in the West.
But isn't modern China`s nihilism and hedonism a result of the influence of Western Capitalism?
by Imperium Romanum Sanctis » Sat Jul 13, 2019 4:52 am
Hanafuridake wrote:Bienenhalde wrote:
Isn't obliteration of the self considered one of the ultimate goals of Buddhism?
No, when asked point blank, the Buddha refused to answer the question on whether or not there was a self. If obliteration of the self was an ultimate goal in Buddhism, it would have been quite easy for the Buddha to state “There is a self, it's the cause of your suffering, and here's how to be rid of it.” but instead he simply pointed to things which were not-self.Anattalakkhana Sutra wrote:“How do you construe thus, monks -- Are [body, feeling, mental processes, consciousness] constant or inconstant?”
“Inconstant, lord.”
“And is that which is inconstant easeful or stressful?”
“Stressful, lord.”
“And is it fitting to regard what is inconstant, stressful, subject to change as: 'this is mine. This is my self. This is what I am'?”
“No, lord.”
by Imperium Romanum Sanctis » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:03 am
Novus America wrote:Painisia wrote:
But isn't modern China`s nihilism and hedonism a result of the influence of Western Capitalism?
Not really. It is the fruits of Marxism. Marxism is not nihilistic but is hyper materialistic. It creates rejects God/gods in favor of a belief in materialism (but with a religious like devotion).
Of course Marxism focuses on the redistribution of wealth to all in the promise it will bring wealth to everyone.
But when it’s eco system comes crashing down (as it always does) there is nothing left.
Religion and traditional beliefs gone, and the material system that replaced and destroyed them gone too.
by Novus America » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:07 am
Imperium Romanum Sanctis wrote:Novus America wrote:
Not really. It is the fruits of Marxism. Marxism is not nihilistic but is hyper materialistic. It creates rejects God/gods in favor of a belief in materialism (but with a religious like devotion).
Of course Marxism focuses on the redistribution of wealth to all in the promise it will bring wealth to everyone.
But when it’s eco system comes crashing down (as it always does) there is nothing left.
Religion and traditional beliefs gone, and the material system that replaced and destroyed them gone too.
Eh, while the Cultural Revolution certainly uprooted and destroyed China's cultural framework, I think it's worth noting that this isn't the fault of Maoism alone. It's exceedingly rare for a country to embrace Communism if there aren't major problems with its prior system and substantial national unrest. China in the centenary build-up to Mao was subject to humiliating military defeats, rampant drug abuse, economic decline, technological stagnation, warlordism and multiple revolutions. By the time Mao had kicked Chiang and the Kuomintang off of the mainland, the country's cultural and religious framework was already in tatters, and although he certainly ended up destroying what little remained, things were already in a total mess before he got his chance ruin things even further.
by Imperium Romanum Sanctis » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:18 am
Novus America wrote:Imperium Romanum Sanctis wrote:
Eh, while the Cultural Revolution certainly uprooted and destroyed China's cultural framework, I think it's worth noting that this isn't the fault of Maoism alone. It's exceedingly rare for a country to embrace Communism if there aren't major problems with its prior system and substantial national unrest. China in the centenary build-up to Mao was subject to humiliating military defeats, rampant drug abuse, economic decline, technological stagnation, warlordism and multiple revolutions. By the time Mao had kicked Chiang and the Kuomintang off of the mainland, the country's cultural and religious framework was already in tatters, and although he certainly ended up destroying what little remained, things were already in a total mess before he got his chance ruin things even further.
Fair enough. Marxism destroyed the pieces of an already collapsing society.
But without it some of the pieces could have been preserved and put back together.
by Novus America » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:21 am
by Novus America » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:28 am
Imperium Romanum Sanctis wrote:Novus America wrote:
Fair enough. Marxism destroyed the pieces of an already collapsing society.
But without it some of the pieces could have been preserved and put back together.
Maybe, maybe not.
The only real alternative would have been the Kuomintang, and given the current state of Taiwan, I'm not inclined to say they'd have done much better.
China has never done anything in half-measures, and the madness of the mid-20th century isn't dissimilar from actions taken during the imperial era at various points in time. And at any rate, the traditions and beliefs of the past are gradually re-incorporating themselves into modern Chinese culture. Even the CPC isn't what it used to be, with genuine ideological Communism having more or less lived and died with Mao.
by Imperium Romanum Sanctis » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:39 am
Novus America wrote:Imperium Romanum Sanctis wrote:
Maybe, maybe not.
The only real alternative would have been the Kuomintang, and given the current state of Taiwan, I'm not inclined to say they'd have done much better.
China has never done anything in half-measures, and the madness of the mid-20th century isn't dissimilar from actions taken during the imperial era at various points in time. And at any rate, the traditions and beliefs of the past are gradually re-incorporating themselves into modern Chinese culture. Even the CPC isn't what it used to be, with genuine ideological Communism having more or less lived and died with Mao.
Taiwan is definitely less nihilistic than the PRC.
Sure Communism is dead, but that is the point. Communism destroys everything else then self destructs.
The PRC superficially trying to restore a few Disneyfied aspects of older Chinese society (although only to use them as tools of social control) is not really doing much.
And a cult of personality is never healthy and inherently destructive to society.
Xi’s megalomania means Xi wants to become China. Where there is no China but Xi, and no China without Xi. Then he dies and what is left?
by Hakons » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:42 am
Novus America wrote:Morality cannot be forced by the government. When you fully try to merge the law and morality, law just consumes the morality and wears its remains like a creepy skin mask.
by The Xenopolis Confederation » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:42 am
Imperium Romanum Sanctis wrote:Novus America wrote:
Fair enough. Marxism destroyed the pieces of an already collapsing society.
But without it some of the pieces could have been preserved and put back together.
Maybe, maybe not.
The only real alternative would have been the Kuomintang, and given the current state of Taiwan, I'm not inclined to say they'd have done much better.
China has never done anything in half-measures, and the madness of the mid-20th century isn't dissimilar from actions taken during the imperial era at various points in time. And at any rate, the traditions and beliefs of the past are gradually re-incorporating themselves into modern Chinese culture. Even the CPC isn't what it used to be, with genuine ideological Communism having more or less lived and died with Mao.
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