Right-Wing Discussion Thread XVI: Making Things Right Again

[Anarcho-Syndicalist Unions]

The Anglican Communion is even worse, it has forsaken God entirely; ordaining female Bishops and endorsing homosexuality, secular liberalism in masquerade.

"By not being discriminatory bigots, they've forsaken a being that we have no proof exists!"
Did you know I'm a atheist!

[Anarcho-Syndicalist Unions]

What are the basic precepts of Christian behaviour?

Mutual respect and understanding, treating others as you want to be treated, etc.

On paper: Sunshine and rainbows.
In practice(and also kind of on paper): Death, bigotry, repression and authoritarianism.

PS: This is not an attack on you, and many other Christians who live good lives. But look at the role that role that Christianity has played in history, and the suffering that it has caused, and it doesn't look pretty. I must admit that Christianity has done some good, but... look!

[Jolthig]

Mutual respect and understanding, treating others as you want to be treated, etc.

On paper: Sunshine and rainbows.
In practice(and also kind of on paper): Death, bigotry, repression and authoritarianism.

PS: This is not an attack on you, and many other Christians who live good lives. But look at the role that role that Christianity has played in history, and the suffering that it has caused, and it doesn't look pretty. I must admit that Christianity has done some good, but... look!

As I do when people tell me similar things about Islam and Muslim nations, I'll say it about Christianity too, none of the actions of Christian rulers are the fault of the New Testament. It lies on individuals who are power hungry.

[Anarcho-Syndicalist Unions]

On paper: Sunshine and rainbows.
In practice(and also kind of on paper): Death, bigotry, repression and authoritarianism.

PS: This is not an attack on you, and many other Christians who live good lives. But look at the role that role that Christianity has played in history, and the suffering that it has caused, and it doesn't look pretty. I must admit that Christianity has done some good, but... look!

As I do when people tell me similar things about Islam and Muslim nations, I'll say it about Christianity too, none of the actions of Christian rulers are the fault of the New Testament. It lies on individuals who are power hungry.

True, but Christianity(and other somewhat authoritarian religions)do provide a foundation for those kind of people to do the things they do. I guess both are to blame to a degree, religion is the sword that many people like that wield.

[Novus America]

As I do when people tell me similar things about Islam and Muslim nations, I'll say it about Christianity too, none of the actions of Christian rulers are the fault of the New Testament. It lies on individuals who are power hungry.

True, but Christianity(and other somewhat authoritarian religions)do provide a foundation for those kind of people to do the things they do. I guess both are to blame to a degree, religion is the sword that many people like that wield.

Except people have done just the same with no religion and state atheism.
There is nothing to suggest a better alternative exists.

[Anarcho-Syndicalist Unions]

True, but Christianity(and other somewhat authoritarian religions)do provide a foundation for those kind of people to do the things they do. I guess both are to blame to a degree, religion is the sword that many people like that wield.

Except people have done just the same with no religion state atheism.
There is nothing to suggest a better alternative exists.

It said many, not all.

[Nea Byzantia]

"The West" is a rather vague and pointless term of reference, but there are certainly parts of the United States and Europe where the Christian religion still holds significant sway. The US' "Bible Belt," for example, or Northern Ireland here in the United Kingdom. Undoubtedly, even in areas where most people still profess Christianity and regularly attend church, many live their lives in ways not wholly in accord with what they publicly preach; but when has it ever been otherwise? That's not a unique problem of the decadent west, either; I have friends who've related stories of watching well-placed Muslim men in the supposedly puritanical Middle East drink bottles of French wine without much fuss.

Tbh even the Bible Belt is an awful example. They're happy to support a complete piece of trash like Trump enthusiastically solely because he's a Republican, and he couldn't even name a single thing from the Bible he liked lol.

Europe is a little bit better on that front, not much, but there's some areas where the religion still has decent sway.

Meanwhile...

85 churches built in Moscow in 8 years: http://orthochristian.com/118214.html

And they're building more...

[Old Tyrannia]

Tbh even the Bible Belt is an awful example. They're happy to support a complete piece of trash like Trump enthusiastically solely because he's a Republican, and he couldn't even name a single thing from the Bible he liked lol.

Europe is a little bit better on that front, not much, but there's some areas where the religion still has decent sway.

Meanwhile...

85 churches built in Moscow in 8 years: http://orthochristian.com/118214.html

And they're building more...

Building more churches doesn't necessarily mean more people are going to them, though. I've read plenty of articles suggesting that the apparent resurgence of Orthodoxy in Russia is to some extent exaggerated. Certainly Russia is no bastion of Christian morality. It's not referred to as a "mafia state" without good reason.

[Nea Byzantia]

Meanwhile...

85 churches built in Moscow in 8 years: http://orthochristian.com/118214.html

And they're building more...

Building more churches doesn't necessarily mean more people are going to them, though. I've read plenty of articles suggesting that the apparent resurgence of Orthodoxy in Russia is to some extent exaggerated. Certainly Russia is no bastion of Christian morality. It's not referred to as a "mafia state" without good reason.

Referred to as such by who? The British? The Americans? Of course their geopolitical rivals aren't going to have nice things to say about them...

I've read plenty of articles suggesting that the apparent resurgence of Orthodoxy in Russia is to some extent exaggerated.

From which sources? And why would they spend the money to build more churches if people weren't going to them?

[Old Tyrannia]

Building more churches doesn't necessarily mean more people are going to them, though. I've read plenty of articles suggesting that the apparent resurgence of Orthodoxy in Russia is to some extent exaggerated. Certainly Russia is no bastion of Christian morality. It's not referred to as a "mafia state" without good reason.

Referred to as such by who? The British? The Americans? Of course their geopolitical rivals aren't going to have nice things to say about them...

Calling Russia a geopolitical rival of the US is giving Russia far too much credit, and there isn't much point in my debating with you if you dismiss any criticism of your favourite country as enemy propaganda.

I've read plenty of articles suggesting that the apparent resurgence of Orthodoxy in Russia is to some extent exaggerated.

From which sources? And why would they spend the money to build more churches if people weren't going to them?

To boost the profile and prestige of the Russian Orthodox Church, of course.

[Nea Byzantia]

Referred to as such by who? The British? The Americans? Of course their geopolitical rivals aren't going to have nice things to say about them...

Calling Russia a geopolitical rival of the US is giving Russia far too much credit, and there isn't much point in my debating with you if you dismiss any criticism of your favourite country as enemy propaganda.

That is also something I expect their geopolitical rivals to say...

To boost the profile and prestige of the Russian Orthodox Church, of course.

What if they're building churches en masse, because their churches are filling up? Just as you Anglicans are selling off all your churches because nobody goes anymore (not surprising given how feckless and spineless the Anglican Church is)...Or are you telling me all the Anglican churches are being sold off in order to diminish the profile and prestige of the Anglican Church - I'd think Canterbury's spinelessness was a precursor to that...

[Locus Praemonstratus]

The Anglican Communion is even worse, it has forsaken God entirely; ordaining female Bishops and endorsing homosexuality, secular liberalism in masquerade.

"Female bishops and homosexuality are worse than molesting children and protecting pedophiles."

...

Regardless of one's stance on the first two, or the validity of the accusations leveled at the Catholic Church, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that should not be your fucking go-to response.

You misunderstood what I said, purposefully I hope not. I wasn’t comparing the grievousness of one sin over another, as I don’t think one can rightly judge by his own mind the gravity of sins beyond the most basic, but rather that where one is scourged, forgiven and reformed (as we see now), the other has entirely forsaken Christ and damns many to hell. And, indeed, one makes a mockery of Christianity and the other is just as it says it is (which is really the crux of Tyrannia’s post, though it is opposite). It is worse to forsake Christ and sin than to sin and not forsake Him.

Pedophilia is a grave sin, indeed it is written, ‘It were better for him, that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should scandalize one of these little ones.’ (Luke 17:2) Remember what I said, because it is rather important for the cohesion of my statement, that according to the Apostles Creed, the Catholic Church is deemed the ‘holy Church’. The Hierarchy’s sins do not impugn on the Body of Christ, it is the True Church still after, and it may be scourged and it may also be forgiven.

[Jolthig]

As I do when people tell me similar things about Islam and Muslim nations, I'll say it about Christianity too, none of the actions of Christian rulers are the fault of the New Testament. It lies on individuals who are power hungry.

True, but Christianity(and other somewhat authoritarian religions)do provide a foundation for those kind of people to do the things they do. I guess both are to blame to a degree, religion is the sword that many people like that wield.

Yeah, everyone religion will have its fanatics. Doesn't mean their founders advocated for such.

[Fahran]

On flag burning, I find the practice a bit peculiar in truth. To appeal to a nation's laws for protection while disrespecting that nation's symbols strikes me as wanting to have your cake and eat it too, but then what good is cake when you can't eat it?

Most of the people who oppose the anti-flag burning amendment would not themselves burn the flag, they are merely looking out for the rights of people who would.

Of course. Citizens, and even non-citizens in some instances, have a legal right to do counter-intuitive and disrespectful things so long as said things are protected in the Constitution. I'm not in favor of an amendment that would ban flag-burning, principally because that's considered an appropriate way to retire an old, tattered flag, and because it creates an inherent contradiction in the Constitution between the First Amendment and the proposed amendment.

I mean, y'know what bothers me more than flag burning? People who try to express their love for the civic and cultural institutions of the United States... while violating the flag code. An example of this is when people wear the flag as a cloak/cape, which to my knowledge violates the section stating that you can't wear the flag as a garment, for doing so cheapens the dignity of the flag as a national symbol. And other things like that, y'know? I dunno, maybe I'm just overly legalistic, but while I get that their intentions are noble, they really need to read the flag code.

I'm not inclined to disagree.

[Hanafuridake]

Referred to as such by who? The British? The Americans? Of course their geopolitical rivals aren't going to have nice things to say about them...

Marxist-Leninists inform me that all bad things about North Korea comes from Anglo-American propaganda too. Do you really want to play the game of blaming inconvenient facts on propaganda?

[Novus America]

Calling Russia a geopolitical rival of the US is giving Russia far too much credit, and there isn't much point in my debating with you if you dismiss any criticism of your favourite country as enemy propaganda.

That is also something I expect their geopolitical rivals to say...

To boost the profile and prestige of the Russian Orthodox Church, of course.

What if they're building churches en masse, because their churches are filling up? Just as you Anglicans are selling off all your churches because nobody goes anymore (not surprising given how feckless and spineless the Anglican Church is)...Or are you telling me all the Anglican churches are being sold off in order to diminish the profile and prestige of the Anglican Church - I'd think Canterbury's spinelessness was a precursor to that...

Given Russia’s declining population, (and growing Muslim population) what makes you think the churches are filling up? For the Russian government they are a simple political symbol, more than a genuine article of faith.

If people were really pouring into the church, it would not need government subsidies to build churches.

Russia has a massive HIV and Heroin crisis, rampant corruption accordingly to all corruption rankings (not just the US government), very high murder and suicide.

It is no bastion of Christian morality, and building Churches as monuments to glorify the regime will not change that.

[Nea Byzantia]

That is also something I expect their geopolitical rivals to say...




What if they're building churches en masse, because their churches are filling up? Just as you Anglicans are selling off all your churches because nobody goes anymore (not surprising given how feckless and spineless the Anglican Church is)...Or are you telling me all the Anglican churches are being sold off in order to diminish the profile and prestige of the Anglican Church - I'd think Canterbury's spinelessness was a precursor to that...

Given Russia’s declining population, (and growing Muslim population) what makes you think the churches are filling up? For the Russian government they are a simple political symbol, more than a genuine article of faith.

Russia has a massive HIV and Heroin crisis, rampant corruption accordingly to all corruption rankings (not just the US government), very high murder and suicide.

It is no bastion of Christian morality, and building Churches as monuments to glorify the regime will not change that.

You too? Ah, well...

[East African Unitary State]

Referred to as such by who? The British? The Americans? Of course their geopolitical rivals aren't going to have nice things to say about them...

Marxist-Leninists inform me that all bad things about North Korea comes from Anglo-American propaganda too. Do you really want to play the game of blaming inconvenient facts on propaganda?

Idk man, is there particular chapter on Marxist-leninist book on North Korea? Seems like more Anglo-American propaganda.

[Novus America]

Given Russia’s declining population, (and growing Muslim population) what makes you think the churches are filling up? For the Russian government they are a simple political symbol, more than a genuine article of faith.

Russia has a massive HIV and Heroin crisis, rampant corruption accordingly to all corruption rankings (not just the US government), very high murder and suicide.

It is no bastion of Christian morality, and building Churches as monuments to glorify the regime will not change that.

You too? Ah, well...

What you mean? The fact that I am aware that outward ostentatious displays of faith are not a good sign of true faith?

Why would you believe Russian is so devoutly Christian?

[Nea Byzantia]

You too? Ah, well...

What you mean? The fact that I am aware that outward ostentatious displays of faith are not a good sign of true faith?

Why would you believe Russian is so devoutly Christian?

Because the majority of their population describes itself as Christian. Similar to Tyrannia, you seem unwilling to believe that the Russians could be rebuilding churches for benign or good reasons. Plus a lot of your sources are biased; you seem to think Russia is in the same position it was in in the 1990s and early 2000s. Sure, the economy ain't doing great - no thanks to American sanctions - but Russia is not in the horrible shape you seem to believe in.

[Novus America]

What you mean? The fact that I am aware that outward ostentatious displays of faith are not a good sign of true faith?

Why would you believe Russian is so devoutly Christian?

Because the majority of their population describes itself as Christian. Similar to Tyrannia, you seem unwilling to believe that the Russians could be rebuilding churches for benign or good reasons. Plus a lot of your sources are biased; you seem to think Russia is in the same position it was in in the 1990s and early 2000s. Sure, the economy ain't doing great - no thanks to American sanctions - but Russia is not in the horrible shape you seem to believe in.

I mean it is theoretically possible they are doing it for benign reasons (but then why persecute other Christians?) but I have no reason to believe it is so.

Sure Russia is better than it was in the 90s, but is still in bad shape by any measures.
Its murder rate is still 10.82 (compared to the US at 5.35).
Its wages and GDP per capita low.
Its corruption rankings very poor.
Third world make life expectancy. Etc.

Outward proclamations of faith by the government I do not find trustworthy.

If the population was truly so faithful they could build churches without subsidies. And Putin would not need to tell everyone about it.
If they are not for propaganda purposes why are they being used for propaganda purposes?

[Nea Byzantia]

Because the majority of their population describes itself as Christian. Similar to Tyrannia, you seem unwilling to believe that the Russians could be rebuilding churches for benign or good reasons. Plus a lot of your sources are biased; you seem to think Russia is in the same position it was in in the 1990s and early 2000s. Sure, the economy ain't doing great - no thanks to American sanctions - but Russia is not in the horrible shape you seem to believe in.

I mean it is theoretically possible they are doing it for benign reasons (but then why persecute other Christians?) but I have no reason to believe it is so.

Sure Russia is better than it was in the 90s, but is still in bad shape by any measures.
Its murder rate is still 10.82 (compared to the US at 5.35).
Its wages and GDP per capita low.
Its corruption rankings very poor.
Third world make life expectancy. Etc.

Outward proclamations of faith by the government I do not find trustworthy.

If the population was truly so faithful they could build churches without subsidies. And Putin would not need to tell everyone about it.
If they are not for propaganda purposes why are they being used for propaganda purposes?

Because the most effective propaganda garbs at least some of itself in the truth...Corrupt as the Russian Government may be; the Church is still genuine, and it is what's holding Russia above water, culturally and socially speaking; so its only natural for the Government to want to take advantage of it; and that's not necessarily a bad thing; even the most benign ruler would do such a thing.

I'm not denying that Russia has its issues; it sure as hell does; but its also slowly pulling itself out of the mire - its come a long way from its terrible position seemingly on the verge of complete breakup in the late 1990s.

[Hanafuridake]

Assaulting children to own the libs.

I was not aware thye assaulted children.

Even outside of that, they're protesting in front of schools, a bunch of angry adults waving around signs is an easy way to scare a child. Do you hate gays so much that intimidating schoolchildren is cool?

[Nea Byzantia]

I was not aware thye assaulted children.

Even outside of that, they're protesting in front of schools, a bunch of angry adults waving around signs is an easy way to scare a child. Do you hate gays so much that intimidating schoolchildren is cool?

No. But I'm not in favour of having them indoctrinate kids into that kind of lifestyle, either...

[Hanafuridake]

Even outside of that, they're protesting in front of schools, a bunch of angry adults waving around signs is an easy way to scare a child. Do you hate gays so much that intimidating schoolchildren is cool?

No. But I'm not in favour of having them indoctrinate kids into that kind of lifestyle, either...

I have news for you. We gays have as many different lifestyles as straight people do. Children learning that LGBTQ+ people exist is not indoctrinating them into anything and considering your own beliefs, I'd consider accusations of indoctrination quite ironic.