Right-Wing Discussion Thread XVI: Making Things Right Again

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

It's needlessly divisive behaviour that is a reasonable target for a crackdown. Not being an American, I haven't been brought up with the secular religion around your constitution, so I'm not going to comment on that as I lack context.

You're right, the people proposing the amendment are being needlessly div... oh, you're talking about the people burning flags.

I'm not American, but I have been infected by its secular religion, so to me, proposing this amendment seems to be a contradiction in terms. It is sending a message that those who hate the values of America should be punished, but one of the values of America is freedom of speech, so it's self-refuting, imo.

[Hanafuridake]

So, lads and lasses, I was wondering if anyone here supports the anti-flag burning amendment, which would give congress the power to make burning the American flag illegal.

If you do, do you support the first amendment? And if so again, how do you reconcile supporting free speech with wanting to ban burning the flag?

The act is morally repulsive, but I can't think of a point to banning the practice. You're not going to keep people from disrespecting the flag.

[Conserative Morality]

So, lads and lasses, I was wondering if anyone here supports the anti-flag burning amendment, which would give congress the power to make burning the American flag illegal.

If you do, do you support the first amendment? And if so again, how do you reconcile supporting free speech with wanting to ban burning the flag?

Of course not. There is no faith without alternatives. I would never burn the American flag in protest, but so long as people aren't violating fire safety ordinances, I see not reason why others should be banned from doing so. Honestly, considering that burning a flag is actually one of the ways you're supposed to get rid of one at the end of it's life, I don't really see the side of those for or against such actions. It seems doubly pointless.

[Turbofolkia]

It's quite interesting that those things seem to happen more in Europe than other places. Makes me wonder if this meme holds any cred.

What a silly, inflammatory and highly inaccurate meme. First of all most Muslims in Western Europe entered legally and many were even invited in as migrant workers after WWII. Moreover according to Pew, the majority of Muslims in Russia want Sharia to be the law of the land.

[Highever]

It's quite interesting that those things seem to happen more in Europe than other places. Makes me wonder if this meme holds any cred.

What a silly, inflammatory and highly inaccurate meme. First of all most Muslims in Western Europe entered legally and many were even invited in as migrant workers after WWII. Moreover according to Pew, the majority of Muslims in Russia want Sharia to be the law of the land.

To be fair they also say that it should only be applicable to muslims and not everyone, which is incidentally lower on average than the other nations polled in Europe.

[Turbofolkia]

What a silly, inflammatory and highly inaccurate meme. First of all most Muslims in Western Europe entered legally and many were even invited in as migrant workers after WWII. Moreover according to Pew, the majority of Muslims in Russia want Sharia to be the law of the land.

To be fair they also say that it should only be applicable to muslims and not everyone, which is incidentally lower on average than the other nations polled in Europe.

I haven't seen any polling for what Muslims in Western Europe think about implementing the Sharia but the same poll showed support for Sharia much lower in Bosnia, Albania, Kosovo and Turkey. I understand that those in Russia were asked a slightly different question but I'm not sure if the results would be that much higher or lower if the questions were the same.

[Highever]

To be fair they also say that it should only be applicable to muslims and not everyone, which is incidentally lower on average than the other nations polled in Europe.

I haven't seen any polling for what Muslims in Western Europe think about implementing the Sharia but the same poll showed support for Sharia much lower in Bosnia, Albania, Kosovo and Turkey. I understand that those in Russia were asked a slightly different question but I'm not sure if the results would be that much higher or lower if the questions were the same.

Evidently there was a study conducted by WZB Berlin Social Science Center regarding fundamentalism among western European muslims that found it to be considerably high. Unfortunately I could only find a PDF so cant link it, but if you google WBZ islam study it should come up.

[Turbofolkia]

I haven't seen any polling for what Muslims in Western Europe think about implementing the Sharia but the same poll showed support for Sharia much lower in Bosnia, Albania, Kosovo and Turkey. I understand that those in Russia were asked a slightly different question but I'm not sure if the results would be that much higher or lower if the questions were the same.

Evidently there was a study conducted by WZB Berlin Social Science Center regarding fundamentalism among western European muslims that found it to be considerably high. Unfortunately I could only find a PDF so cant link it, but if you google WBZ islam study it should come up.

I had a bit of a read of that survey and yeah it definitely does indicate that. There is especially a high level of homophobia and anti-Semitism among people of Muslim heritage, which I definitely don't doubt. That's not something exclusive to Western Europe either. In Australia the highest No vote to gay marriage (about 75%) came from an electoral constituency with a Muslim population of about 40% (plus large numbers of people from other conservative societies like Vietnam, China etc) while the typical white conservative rural areas largely voted Yes.

[The New California Republic]

Evidently there was a study conducted by WZB Berlin Social Science Center regarding fundamentalism among western European muslims that found it to be considerably high. Unfortunately I could only find a PDF so cant link it, but if you google WBZ islam study it should come up.

I had a bit of a read of that survey and yeah it definitely does indicate that. There is especially a high level of homophobia and anti-Semitism among people of Muslim heritage, which I definitely don't doubt. That's not something exclusive to Western Europe either. In Australia the highest No vote to gay marriage (about 75%) came from an electoral constituency with a Muslim population of about 40% (plus large numbers of people from other conservative societies like Vietnam, China etc) while the typical white conservative rural areas largely voted Yes.

And the recent shit in the UK regarding the Muslim protesters outside schools just confirms this as well.

[Turbofolkia]

I had a bit of a read of that survey and yeah it definitely does indicate that. There is especially a high level of homophobia and anti-Semitism among people of Muslim heritage, which I definitely don't doubt. That's not something exclusive to Western Europe either. In Australia the highest No vote to gay marriage (about 75%) came from an electoral constituency with a Muslim population of about 40% (plus large numbers of people from other conservative societies like Vietnam, China etc) while the typical white conservative rural areas largely voted Yes.

And the recent shit in the UK regarding the Muslim protesters outside schools just confirms this as well.

Yeah, I do find it interesting that the Muslim diaspora in places like Germany (largely from Turkey), Switzerland (Albania), Australia (Lebanon) come from societies considered to be quite liberal, at least as far as the Muslim world goes, yet the diaspora may not be as secular/liberal as those back home. I guess the UK is a bit more 'understandable' since Pakistan is already quite fundamentalist.

[Nakena]

And the recent shit in the UK regarding the Muslim protesters outside schools just confirms this as well.

Yeah, I do find it interesting that the Muslim diaspora in places like Germany (largely from Turkey), Switzerland (Albania), Australia (Lebanon) come from societies considered to be quite liberal, at least as far as the Muslim world goes, yet the diaspora may not be as secular/liberal as those back home. I guess the UK is a bit more 'understandable' since Pakistan is already quite fundamentalist.

It's because many (by no means all!) of them are from the underling classes in their respective home countries. Which creates a bad starting condition that only worses when they become trapped in a limbo inside Europe, neither being part of the european society and increasingly alienated from their roots.

[Nea Byzantia]

Yeah, I do find it interesting that the Muslim diaspora in places like Germany (largely from Turkey), Switzerland (Albania), Australia (Lebanon) come from societies considered to be quite liberal, at least as far as the Muslim world goes, yet the diaspora may not be as secular/liberal as those back home. I guess the UK is a bit more 'understandable' since Pakistan is already quite fundamentalist.

It's because many (by no means all!) of them are from the underling classes in their respective home countries. Which creates a bad starting condition that only worses when they become trapped in a limbo inside Europe, neither being part of the european society and increasingly alienated from their roots.

Yeah, they're in a crappy condition, either way.

[Turbofolkia]

Yeah, I do find it interesting that the Muslim diaspora in places like Germany (largely from Turkey), Switzerland (Albania), Australia (Lebanon) come from societies considered to be quite liberal, at least as far as the Muslim world goes, yet the diaspora may not be as secular/liberal as those back home. I guess the UK is a bit more 'understandable' since Pakistan is already quite fundamentalist.

It's because many (by no means all!) of them are from the underling classes in their respective home countries. Which creates a bad starting condition that only worses when they become trapped in a limbo inside Europe, neither being part of the european society and increasingly alienated from their roots.

Yeah, that’s true. Also when groups become clustered together there is less of an incentive to interact with wider society. I think part of the reason why fundamentalism and a lack of integration isn’t as much of an issue in America is because the US is so big, so there is a larger emphasis on integration since communities are more spread out. Compare that to Europe, where countries are about the size of a state, or Australia, which although is geographically big, doesn’t have major cities and towns in every part of the country.

Also the US seems to place a bigger emphasis on assimilation than Europe (with the exception of probably France) or Australia, which in many ways discourages assimilation, or at least provides incentives for ethnic groups to retain their mother tongue and culture. That’s not necessarily a bad thing (I was able to take Croatian from K-12 and complete it as a subject for my final exams, and that was all provided and funded by the government) but I guess it may risk fostering a cultural divide at times.

[Fahran]

On flag burning, I find the practice a bit peculiar in truth. To appeal to a nation's laws for protection while disrespecting that nation's symbols strikes me as wanting to have your cake and eat it too, but then what good is cake when you can't eat it?

[The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord]

On flag burning, I find the practice a bit peculiar in truth. To appeal to a nation's laws for protection while disrespecting that nation's symbols strikes me as wanting to have your cake and eat it too, but then what good is cake when you can't eat it?

I mean, y'know what bothers me more than flag burning? People who try to express their love for the civic and cultural institutions of the United States... while violating the flag code. An example of this is when people wear the flag as a cloak/cape, which to my knowledge violates the section stating that you can't wear the flag as a garment, for doing so cheapens the dignity of the flag as a national symbol. And other things like that, y'know? I dunno, maybe I'm just overly legalistic, but while I get that their intentions are noble, they really need to read the flag code.

[The South Falls]

On flag burning, I find the practice a bit peculiar in truth. To appeal to a nation's laws for protection while disrespecting that nation's symbols strikes me as wanting to have your cake and eat it too, but then what good is cake when you can't eat it?

Often tho, people burn the flag in protest of actions that they feel are adverse to the nation's best interests, and the traditions and symbolism of the nation itself. It's counter-intuitive, but it's patriotism all the same.

On flag burning, I find the practice a bit peculiar in truth. To appeal to a nation's laws for protection while disrespecting that nation's symbols strikes me as wanting to have your cake and eat it too, but then what good is cake when you can't eat it?

I mean, y'know what bothers me more than flag burning? People who try to express their love for the civic and cultural institutions of the United States... while violating the flag code. An example of this is when people wear the flag as a cloak/cape, which to my knowledge violates the section stating that you can't wear the flag as a garment, for doing so cheapens the dignity of the flag as a national symbol. And other things like that, y'know? I dunno, maybe I'm just overly legalistic, but while I get that their intentions are noble, they really need to read the flag code.

I boil the flag in pots and drink the water. That's how patriotic I am. Do you want to follow flag codes? Get out of here commie swine!

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

On flag burning, I find the practice a bit peculiar in truth. To appeal to a nation's laws for protection while disrespecting that nation's symbols strikes me as wanting to have your cake and eat it too, but then what good is cake when you can't eat it?

Most of the people who oppose the anti-flag burning amendment would not themselves burn the flag, they are merely looking out for the rights of people who would.

[United Muscovite Nations]

So, lads and lasses, I was wondering if anyone here supports the anti-flag burning amendment, which would give congress the power to make burning the American flag illegal.

If you do, do you support the first amendment? And if so again, how do you reconcile supporting free speech with wanting to ban burning the flag?

Of course not. There is no faith without alternatives. I would never burn the American flag in protest, but so long as people aren't violating fire safety ordinances, I see not reason why others should be banned from doing so. Honestly, considering that burning a flag is actually one of the ways you're supposed to get rid of one at the end of it's life, I don't really see the side of those for or against such actions. It seems doubly pointless.

Oh God, Oh fuck, the old avatar is gone now.

[Bear Stearns]

So, lads and lasses, I was wondering if anyone here supports the anti-flag burning amendment, which would give congress the power to make burning the American flag illegal.

If you do, do you support the first amendment? And if so again, how do you reconcile supporting free speech with wanting to ban burning the flag?

Banning flag burning is creepy state worship. As if the US needs any more of that.

That said, burning the US flag is disrespectful and I look down on people who do it.

[Bear Stearns]

I had a bit of a read of that survey and yeah it definitely does indicate that. There is especially a high level of homophobia and anti-Semitism among people of Muslim heritage, which I definitely don't doubt. That's not something exclusive to Western Europe either. In Australia the highest No vote to gay marriage (about 75%) came from an electoral constituency with a Muslim population of about 40% (plus large numbers of people from other conservative societies like Vietnam, China etc) while the typical white conservative rural areas largely voted Yes.

And the recent shit in the UK regarding the Muslim protesters outside schools just confirms this as well.

Tbh those protesters are lowkey hilarious.

[Nea Byzantia]

And the recent shit in the UK regarding the Muslim protesters outside schools just confirms this as well.

Tbh those protesters are lowkey hilarious.

And lowkey based...

[Kowani]

Tbh those protesters are lowkey hilarious.

And lowkey based...

Nah.

[Hanafuridake]

Tbh those protesters are lowkey hilarious.

And lowkey based...

Police were called last Sunday after LGBT-inclusivity campaigners and their children were pelted with eggs for tying supportive messages and rainbow ribbons on to her school gates.

Assaulting children to own the libs.

[Great Kauthar]

The plague of liberalism (and the vice of secularism that comes with it) infected conservatism decades ago. It's hard to call contemporary conservatism conservative.

I don't disagree with you on your points personally. Though regardless, the first amendment does make our country secular.

I'm not American, so it doesn't impact me.

The plague of liberalism (and the vice of secularism that comes with it) infected conservatism decades ago. It's hard to call contemporary conservatism conservative.

Most modern conservatives are generally within liberalism. In my view, that's a good thing. Also, secularism, in America at least, has been the undisputed norm since 1776.

Yeah and that's it's a bad thing. Modern day conservatism is literally just liberalism with border security and no transgenders. Secularism is just a nice term for state atheism, it's evil and the reason why the west is so decadent.

[Nova Cyberia]

I don't disagree with you on your points personally. Though regardless, the first amendment does make our country secular.

I'm not American, so it doesn't impact me.

Most modern conservatives are generally within liberalism. In my view, that's a good thing. Also, secularism, in America at least, has been the undisputed norm since 1776.

Yeah and that's it's a bad thing. Modern day conservatism is literally just liberalism with border security and no transgenders. Secularism is just a nice term for state atheism, it's evil and the reason why the west is so decadent.

What's evil about the prospect of a government not endorsing any particular religion?