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Right-Wing Discussion Thread XVI: Making Things Right Again

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Do you consider nationalism and patriotism synoymous?

Yes- I am a nationalist and a patriot
115
26%
No- I am a nationalist and a patriot
52
12%
No- I am a nationalist, not a patriot
43
10%
No- I am a patriot, not a nationalist
147
33%
Yes- I am neither a nationalist nor a patriot
18
4%
No- I am neither a nationalist nor a patriot
68
15%
 
Total votes : 443

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Jolthig
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Posts: 15049
Founded: Aug 31, 2010
Democratic Socialists

Postby Jolthig » Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:20 pm

United Muscovite Nations wrote:
Jolthig wrote:Nope. Prison for tax evasion.

But you just said they'd force me to pay the tax.

:roll:

Because everyone has to pay taxes to governments. That's literally what forcing means, but I guess according to you, I'm advocating for you to leave your faith. Pretending that I made a Freudian slip when I have been consistent on what I said this entire time.

You are clearly incompetent to debate at this point. I will no longer discuss this topic with you.
Ahmadi Muslim • Khaddam of Ahmadiyya • theistic evolutionist • Star Wars fan • rock and metal fan • Pragmatic on politics
Retiring from NS, guys.

Grenartia wrote:Then we Marshall Plan it.

Kowani wrote:
Jolthig wrote:Lol why

“Und Mirza”

:lol2:

Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:Isn't that what NSG is for though to a degree?

YOU’RE WRONG.

Allow me to explain using several fallacies, veiled insults, and insinuations that you’re ugly and dumb.

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Novus America
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26585
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:22 pm

Jolthig wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:But you just said they'd force me to pay the tax.

:roll:

Because everyone has to pay taxes to governments. That's literally what forcing means, but I guess according to you, I'm advocating for you to leave your faith. Pretending that I made a Freudian slip when I have been consistent on what I said this entire time.

You are clearly incompetent to debate at this point. I will no longer discuss this topic with you.


People should not pay different taxes for being a different religion though.
The law should apply equally to members of all religions.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

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United Muscovite Nations
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 20754
Founded: Feb 01, 2017
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby United Muscovite Nations » Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:22 pm

Jolthig wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:But you just said they'd force me to pay the tax.

:roll:

Because everyone has to pay taxes to governments. That's literally what forcing means, but I guess according to you, I'm advocating for you to leave your faith. Pretending that I made a Freudian slip when I have been consistent on what I said this entire time.

You are clearly incompetent to debate at this point. I will no longer discuss this topic with you.

Then don't play coy and act like forcing people to pay taxes for not being a Muslim isn't a coercive measure against non-Muslims. Don't piss on me and tell me it's raining.
Formerly United Marxist Nations, Dec 02, 2011- Feb 01, 2017. +33,837 posts Eastern Orthodox Christian. Christian Anarchist and Monarchist. Supporter of Pan-Arabism. 22-year old Doomer
Even the apologists of industrialism have been obliged to admit that some economic evils follow in the wake of the machines. These are such as overproduction, unemployment, and a growing inequality in the distribution of wealth. But the remedies proposed by the apologists are always homeopathic. They expect the evils to disappear when we have bigger and better machines, and more of them. Their remedial programs, therefore, look forward to more industrialism.
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Salus Maior
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Posts: 15577
Founded: Jun 16, 2014
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Salus Maior » Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:24 pm

United Muscovite Nations wrote:
Novus America wrote:
Which is what I said. He did not plan it to go the way it did, was disgusted by it yet still willing to take advantage of the aftermath.

Yeah, the issue is that he allowed it.


Honestly, even if the Pope did disallow it I don't think the end result would have been any different. The "Crusaders" and Venetians were already defying the Pope since Zara, his excommunication didn't do anything.
Traditionalist Catholic and Constitutional Monarchist.

"What is better? To be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?" -Paarthurnax

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Genivaria
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 63260
Founded: Mar 29, 2011
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Genivaria » Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:27 pm

Jolthig wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:But you just said they'd force me to pay the tax.

:roll:

Because everyone has to pay taxes to governments. That's literally what forcing means, but I guess according to you, I'm advocating for you to leave your faith. Pretending that I made a Freudian slip when I have been consistent on what I said this entire time.

You are clearly incompetent to debate at this point. I will no longer discuss this topic with you.

Then discuss the topic with me, because it seems like you're unable to actually dispute that Jizya is coercion.
There's a thing called Sin Tax which are used to discourage the use of socially unaccepted goods and services like drugs and alcohol, this is by its inherent nature coercive.
Jizya is effectively the same thing in regards to the socially unacceptable act of not being Muslim.
General Sherman did nothing wrong, fact.
Liberal Social Democrat.

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Loben The 2nd
Minister
 
Posts: 2033
Founded: Apr 29, 2019
Right-wing Utopia

Postby Loben The 2nd » Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:28 pm

Jolthig wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:But you just said they'd force me to pay the tax.

:roll:

Because everyone has to pay taxes to governments. That's literally what forcing means, but I guess according to you, I'm advocating for you to leave your faith. Pretending that I made a Freudian slip when I have been consistent on what I said this entire time.

You are clearly incompetent to debate at this point. I will no longer discuss this topic with you.

I’d rather fucking die then pay taxes on gene basis of my faith.
Eternal Lotharia wrote:You prioritize hatred of ideology over human rights. Fucking disgusting of you.

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Genivaria
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 63260
Founded: Mar 29, 2011
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Genivaria » Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:29 pm

Loben The 2nd wrote:
Jolthig wrote: :roll:

Because everyone has to pay taxes to governments. That's literally what forcing means, but I guess according to you, I'm advocating for you to leave your faith. Pretending that I made a Freudian slip when I have been consistent on what I said this entire time.

You are clearly incompetent to debate at this point. I will no longer discuss this topic with you.

I’d rather fucking die then pay taxes on gene basis of my faith.

I mean c'mon we had a fucking war over taxes. :D
General Sherman did nothing wrong, fact.
Liberal Social Democrat.

Proud denouncer of the Taliban.

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Novus America
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26585
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:34 pm

United Muscovite Nations wrote:
Novus America wrote:
Which is what I said. He did not plan it to go the way it did, was disgusted by it yet still willing to take advantage of the aftermath.

Yeah, the issue is that he allowed it.


Well he did not really allow it per se, he was in no real position to stop it.
But yes he certainly did take advantage of the aftermath and did not take lasting action against the non Venetians. He was certainly a flawed man who made mistakes.
But was an ambiguous even tragic figure, not a villain to the same degree as Enrico Dandolo and the Angelos dynasty.
Last edited by Novus America on Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

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Kernen
Senator
 
Posts: 4944
Founded: Mar 02, 2011
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Kernen » Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:43 pm

Jolthig wrote:
Salus Maior wrote:
My position is that no Islamic state should exist, period.

Then, I am the opposite of you. Because I believe Islamic states should be established through persuasion and democracy once the majority of the populace choose to become Muslim. Preferably the Ahmadiyya community, and the closest nation that may do that is the Gambia.


Why would anybody chose to be a part of a system that taxed them on the basis of religious belief? There's no reason to tax faith unless you're trying to penalize different beliefs, which is hardly something non-Muslims would invite upon themselves.

Lets not tax any belief or lack thereof.
From the throne of Khan Juk i'Behemoti, Juk Who-Is-The-Strength-of-the-Behemoth, Supreme Khan of the Ogres of Kernen. May the Khan ever drink the blood of his enemies!

Lawful Evil

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El-Amin Caliphate
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15283
Founded: Apr 05, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby El-Amin Caliphate » Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:34 pm

Salus Maior wrote:
Turbofolkia wrote:No state implements the jizya today and I don't think it's been implemented by any state since it was abolished by the Ottomans in the 19th Century. Jews in Europe (at least the ones that weren't expelled) were forced to pay taxes for being Jews, so it's not like the jizya was anything extraordinary or extreme for its time.


You realize that Jolthig and Amin are saying that there should be a modern worldwide Caliphate that executes Shariah law including the Jizya, right?

Nobody's calling out the Ottomans here.

Oi, I never said anything about a worldwide Khilaafah. Also, y'all srsly need to reread what jizyah is. It's literally just a tax, just like zakah os just a tax. That's all they are: taxes.
Kernen wrote:
Jolthig wrote:Then, I am the opposite of you. Because I believe Islamic states should be established through persuasion and democracy once the majority of the populace choose to become Muslim. Preferably the Ahmadiyya community, and the closest nation that may do that is the Gambia.


Why would anybody chose to be a part of a system that taxed them on the basis of religious belief? There's no reason to tax faith unless you're trying to penalize different beliefs, which is hardly something non-Muslims would invite upon themselves.

Lets not tax any belief or lack thereof.

That's not how Al-Islam works here. We Muslims pay zakah, y'all non-Muslims pay jizyah. And that's it.

UMN - and to every other non-Muslim who's reading this - every nation on this planet forces their citizens to pay taxes. America literally forces its citizens to pay taxes with the threat of jail time for not doing so. The same works in an Islamic nation. It's not like converting to Al-Islam means you stop paying taxes.
Also we might be going into IDT territory.
Last edited by El-Amin Caliphate on Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Washington Resistance Army
Post Czar
 
Posts: 41669
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:36 pm

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:
Kernen wrote:
Why would anybody chose to be a part of a system that taxed them on the basis of religious belief? There's no reason to tax faith unless you're trying to penalize different beliefs, which is hardly something non-Muslims would invite upon themselves.

Lets not tax any belief or lack thereof.

That's not how Al-Islam works here. We Muslims pay zakah, y'all non-Muslims pay jizyah. And that's it.

UMN, every nation on this planet forces their citizens to pay taxes. America literally forces its citizens to pay taxes with the threat of jail time for not doing so. The same works in an Islamic nation. It's not like converting to Al-Islam means you stop paying taxes.


The difference being America doesn't create separate forms of taxation for good citizens and those who are second class.

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Hanafuridake
Senator
 
Posts: 3636
Founded: Sep 09, 2018
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Hanafuridake » Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:47 pm

When far-rightists try to claim that the Jews created Cultural Marxism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madhyamaka

We've been at this longer than they have.
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Kernen
Senator
 
Posts: 4944
Founded: Mar 02, 2011
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Kernen » Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:52 pm

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:
Salus Maior wrote:
You realize that Jolthig and Amin are saying that there should be a modern worldwide Caliphate that executes Shariah law including the Jizya, right?

Nobody's calling out the Ottomans here.

Oi, i eneve siad anything aboit a worldwide Khilaafah. Also, y'all srsly need to reread what jizyah is. It's literally just a tax, just like zakah os just a tax. That's all they are: taxes.
Kernen wrote:
Why would anybody chose to be a part of a system that taxed them on the basis of religious belief? There's no reason to tax faith unless you're trying to penalize different beliefs, which is hardly something non-Muslims would invite upon themselves.

Lets not tax any belief or lack thereof.

That's not how Al-Islam works here. We Muslims pay zakah, y'all non-Muslims pay jizyah. And that's it.

UMN - and to every other non-Muslim who's reading this - every nation on this planet forces their citizens to pay taxes. America literally forces its citizens to pay taxes with the threat of jail time for not doing so. The same works in an Islamic nation. It's not like converting to Al-Islam means you stop paying taxes.
Also we might be going into IDT territory.



Unless the taxes are identical in all but name, theres no reason to tolerate them.
From the throne of Khan Juk i'Behemoti, Juk Who-Is-The-Strength-of-the-Behemoth, Supreme Khan of the Ogres of Kernen. May the Khan ever drink the blood of his enemies!

Lawful Evil

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El-Amin Caliphate
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Posts: 15283
Founded: Apr 05, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby El-Amin Caliphate » Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:59 pm

Kernen wrote:
El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Oi, i eneve siad anything aboit a worldwide Khilaafah. Also, y'all srsly need to reread what jizyah is. It's literally just a tax, just like zakah os just a tax. That's all they are: taxes.

That's not how Al-Islam works here. We Muslims pay zakah, y'all non-Muslims pay jizyah. And that's it.

UMN - and to every other non-Muslim who's reading this - every nation on this planet forces their citizens to pay taxes. America literally forces its citizens to pay taxes with the threat of jail time for not doing so. The same works in an Islamic nation. It's not like converting to Al-Islam means you stop paying taxes.
Also we might be going into IDT territory.



Unless the taxes are identical in all but name, theres no reason to tolerate them.

They pretty much are. There's no set amount on jizyah so it can be set to the same amount as zakah - 2.5% of your income (?) annually.
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CLICK THIS
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Turbofolkia
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 357
Founded: May 05, 2019
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Turbofolkia » Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:01 pm

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Oi, i eneve siad anything aboit a worldwide Khilaafah. Also, y'all srsly need to reread what jizyah is. It's literally just a tax, just like zakah os just a tax. That's all they are: taxes.


I forget the exact numbers but during Apartheid-era South Africa the tax-free threshold for white people was around R3000 while it was around R1000 for black people. So black people had to pay tax from a much lower threshold despite being much poorer than their white counterparts, and they received fewer rights in return. The jizya was similar in that it also perpetuated an Apartheid-like system. While the jizya was arguably relatively tolerant and progressive in medieval times (since the alternative was straight up slaughtering or expelling minority faiths which was happening elsewhere), it is certainly unacceptable now.

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El-Amin Caliphate
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Posts: 15283
Founded: Apr 05, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby El-Amin Caliphate » Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:06 pm

Turbofolkia wrote:
El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Oi, i eneve siad anything aboit a worldwide Khilaafah. Also, y'all srsly need to reread what jizyah is. It's literally just a tax, just like zakah os just a tax. That's all they are: taxes.


I forget the exact numbers but during Apartheid-era South Africa the tax-free threshold for white people was around R3000 while it was around R1000 for black people. So black people had to pay tax from a much lower threshold despite being much poorer than their white counterparts, and they received fewer rights in return. The jizya was similar in that it also perpetuated an Apartheid-like system. While the jizya was arguably relatively tolerant and progressive in medieval times (since the alternative was straight up slaughtering or expelling minority faiths which was happening elsewhere), it is certainly unacceptable now.

I'm not talking about how jizyah was implemented historically.
Kubumba Tribe's sister nation. NOT A PUPPET! >w< In fact, this one came 1st.
Proud Full Member of the Council of Islamic Cooperation!^u^
I'm a (Pan) Islamist ;)
CLICK THIS
https://americanvision.org/948/theonomy-vs-theocracy/ wrote:God’s law cannot govern a nation where God’s law does not rule in the hearts of the people

Democracy and Freedom Index
Plaetopia wrote:Partly Free / Hybrid regime (score 4-6) El-Amin Caliphate (5.33)

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Turbofolkia
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 357
Founded: May 05, 2019
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Turbofolkia » Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:10 pm

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:
Turbofolkia wrote:
I forget the exact numbers but during Apartheid-era South Africa the tax-free threshold for white people was around R3000 while it was around R1000 for black people. So black people had to pay tax from a much lower threshold despite being much poorer than their white counterparts, and they received fewer rights in return. The jizya was similar in that it also perpetuated an Apartheid-like system. While the jizya was arguably relatively tolerant and progressive in medieval times (since the alternative was straight up slaughtering or expelling minority faiths which was happening elsewhere), it is certainly unacceptable now.

I'm not talking about how jizyah was implemented historically.

I mean, it's only ever been implemented historically. How different would your modern version of jizya be? Would non-Muslims get the same rights as Muslims as long as they paid up?

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El-Amin Caliphate
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15283
Founded: Apr 05, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby El-Amin Caliphate » Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:13 pm

Turbofolkia wrote:
El-Amin Caliphate wrote:I'm not talking about how jizyah was implemented historically.

I mean, it's only ever been implemented historically.

Yet again not what I'm taking about. I'm talking about implementing it according to the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah, not according to history.
Turbofolkia wrote:How different would your modern version of jizya be?

It wouldn't be a modern version of jizyah. There is no modern version of jizyah.
Turbofolkia wrote:Would non-Muslims get the same rights as Muslims as long as they paid up?

They're supposed to regardless of whether they pay or not.
Last edited by El-Amin Caliphate on Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Kubumba Tribe's sister nation. NOT A PUPPET! >w< In fact, this one came 1st.
Proud Full Member of the Council of Islamic Cooperation!^u^
I'm a (Pan) Islamist ;)
CLICK THIS
https://americanvision.org/948/theonomy-vs-theocracy/ wrote:God’s law cannot govern a nation where God’s law does not rule in the hearts of the people

Democracy and Freedom Index
Plaetopia wrote:Partly Free / Hybrid regime (score 4-6) El-Amin Caliphate (5.33)

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United Muscovite Nations
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 20754
Founded: Feb 01, 2017
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby United Muscovite Nations » Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:37 pm

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:
Salus Maior wrote:
You realize that Jolthig and Amin are saying that there should be a modern worldwide Caliphate that executes Shariah law including the Jizya, right?

Nobody's calling out the Ottomans here.

Oi, I never said anything about a worldwide Khilaafah. Also, y'all srsly need to reread what jizyah is. It's literally just a tax, just like zakah os just a tax. That's all they are: taxes.
Kernen wrote:
Why would anybody chose to be a part of a system that taxed them on the basis of religious belief? There's no reason to tax faith unless you're trying to penalize different beliefs, which is hardly something non-Muslims would invite upon themselves.

Lets not tax any belief or lack thereof.

That's not how Al-Islam works here. We Muslims pay zakah, y'all non-Muslims pay jizyah. And that's it.

UMN - and to every other non-Muslim who's reading this - every nation on this planet forces their citizens to pay taxes. America literally forces its citizens to pay taxes with the threat of jail time for not doing so. The same works in an Islamic nation. It's not like converting to Al-Islam means you stop paying taxes.
Also we might be going into IDT territory.

And you wonder why none of us want to live in a state founded on the satanic ideals of your warlord prophet who murdered his enemies and sold their families into slavery.
Formerly United Marxist Nations, Dec 02, 2011- Feb 01, 2017. +33,837 posts Eastern Orthodox Christian. Christian Anarchist and Monarchist. Supporter of Pan-Arabism. 22-year old Doomer
Even the apologists of industrialism have been obliged to admit that some economic evils follow in the wake of the machines. These are such as overproduction, unemployment, and a growing inequality in the distribution of wealth. But the remedies proposed by the apologists are always homeopathic. They expect the evils to disappear when we have bigger and better machines, and more of them. Their remedial programs, therefore, look forward to more industrialism.
Pro and Anti: https://www.nationstates.net/nation=uni ... id=1166847

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Jolthig
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15049
Founded: Aug 31, 2010
Democratic Socialists

Postby Jolthig » Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:52 pm

UMN and Salus have both been put on my ignore now, and perhaps another day, I'll come and discuss Jizya with those who are level-headed. But for now, I will keep away from this thread until I feel the time is right. Peace!
Ahmadi Muslim • Khaddam of Ahmadiyya • theistic evolutionist • Star Wars fan • rock and metal fan • Pragmatic on politics
Retiring from NS, guys.

Grenartia wrote:Then we Marshall Plan it.

Kowani wrote:
Jolthig wrote:Lol why

“Und Mirza”

:lol2:

Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:Isn't that what NSG is for though to a degree?

YOU’RE WRONG.

Allow me to explain using several fallacies, veiled insults, and insinuations that you’re ugly and dumb.

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The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7788
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:55 pm

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:
Salus Maior wrote:
You realize that Jolthig and Amin are saying that there should be a modern worldwide Caliphate that executes Shariah law including the Jizya, right?

Nobody's calling out the Ottomans here.

Oi, I never said anything about a worldwide Khilaafah. Also, y'all srsly need to reread what jizyah is. It's literally just a tax, just like zakah os just a tax. That's all they are: taxes.
Kernen wrote:
Why would anybody chose to be a part of a system that taxed them on the basis of religious belief? There's no reason to tax faith unless you're trying to penalize different beliefs, which is hardly something non-Muslims would invite upon themselves.

Lets not tax any belief or lack thereof.

That's not how Al-Islam works here. We Muslims pay zakah, y'all non-Muslims pay jizyah. And that's it.

UMN - and to every other non-Muslim who's reading this - every nation on this planet forces their citizens to pay taxes. America literally forces its citizens to pay taxes with the threat of jail time for not doing so. The same works in an Islamic nation. It's not like converting to Al-Islam means you stop paying taxes.
Also we might be going into IDT territory.

Which is more money, jizya ir zakah?
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El-Amin Caliphate
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15283
Founded: Apr 05, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby El-Amin Caliphate » Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:55 pm

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Oi, I never said anything about a worldwide Khilaafah. Also, y'all srsly need to reread what jizyah is. It's literally just a tax, just like zakah os just a tax. That's all they are: taxes.

That's not how Al-Islam works here. We Muslims pay zakah, y'all non-Muslims pay jizyah. And that's it.

UMN - and to every other non-Muslim who's reading this - every nation on this planet forces their citizens to pay taxes. America literally forces its citizens to pay taxes with the threat of jail time for not doing so. The same works in an Islamic nation. It's not like converting to Al-Islam means you stop paying taxes.
Also we might be going into IDT territory.

Which is more money, jizya ir zakah?

That depends on how high or low jizyah is set. Afaik there is no set amount for jizyah.
Kubumba Tribe's sister nation. NOT A PUPPET! >w< In fact, this one came 1st.
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I'm a (Pan) Islamist ;)
CLICK THIS
https://americanvision.org/948/theonomy-vs-theocracy/ wrote:God’s law cannot govern a nation where God’s law does not rule in the hearts of the people

Democracy and Freedom Index
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El-Amin Caliphate
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Founded: Apr 05, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby El-Amin Caliphate » Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:57 pm

Jolthig wrote:UMN and Salus have both been put on my ignore now, and perhaps another day, I'll come and discuss Jizya with those who are level-headed. But for now, I will keep away from this thread until I feel the time is right. Peace!

Later today (it's 1:56 am here, I should srsly be asleep lol :lol: ) I'll update my Islam factbook to include stuff about jizyah insha-Allah.
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Postby United Muscovite Nations » Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:58 pm

Jolthig wrote:UMN and Salus have both been put on my ignore now, and perhaps another day, I'll come and discuss Jizya with those who are level-headed. But for now, I will keep away from this thread until I feel the time is right. Peace!

I find it very strange how you can think demanding that people be financially penalized for refusing to convert to your religion is civil discourse.
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Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:06 pm

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:Which is more money, jizya ir zakah?

That depends on how high or low jizyah is set. Afaik there is no set amount for jizyah.

But most of the time, jizya would demand more right? Otherwise there'd be no point in having two separste tax codes. That's incentivizing people to convert to Islam through the state.
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