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Right-Wing Discussion Thread XVI: Making Things Right Again

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Do you consider nationalism and patriotism synoymous?

Yes- I am a nationalist and a patriot
90
26%
No- I am a nationalist and a patriot
38
11%
No- I am a nationalist, not a patriot
34
10%
No- I am a patriot, not a nationalist
120
35%
Yes- I am neither a nationalist nor a patriot
14
4%
No- I am neither a nationalist nor a patriot
51
15%
 
Total votes : 347

User avatar
Camelone
Minister
 
Posts: 3453
Founded: Feb 20, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Camelone » Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:05 am

Nea Byzantia wrote:
Napkizemlja wrote:Even though he wasn't a prolific writer, I want to give a shout out to Walter M. Miller Jr who was a terrific writer. A Canticle for Leibowitz is one of the greatest science fiction novels I have ever read and it deserves more praise and attention.

This sounds like a very interesting book...I will see if I can get my hands on it. Thanks.

Read The High Crusade also, it's about a town of Englishmen during the Hundred Years War waging an interstellar war against aliens. It's absolutely beautiful!
Dissenting High Church Episcopalian, American Jacobite with a Byzantine flair for extra spice
I am... the lurker!
Ave Rex Christus!

Pro: The Social Kingship of Christ, Society of King Charles the Martyr, Corporatism, Distributism, Tradition based Christianity, High Tory, Hierarchy, vanguard republicanism, Official Nationality
Neutral: Constitutions, Guild Socialism, Libertarianism, Constitution Party, monarchism
Against: Communism, socialism, SJWs, materialism, the Democratic Republican Uniparty, material Egalitarianism
Family, Fatherland, Work
Results

User avatar
Diopolis
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12236
Founded: May 15, 2012
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Diopolis » Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:06 am

Nea Byzantia wrote:
Napkizemlja wrote:Even though he wasn't a prolific writer, I want to give a shout out to Walter M. Miller Jr who was a terrific writer. A Canticle for Leibowitz is one of the greatest science fiction novels I have ever read and it deserves more praise and attention.

This sounds like a very interesting book...I will see if I can get my hands on it. Thanks.

It's very good.
Trad-Catholic, hispanophile Texas nationalist and paleoconservative. Yes, my politics are in somewhat of a flux rn, so the description changes on a weekly basis.
Economic left -3.88, authoritarian 6.15
Thoughts
Abortion is not healthcare.
St Generalissimo Francisco Franco, pray for us!

User avatar
The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5596
Founded: Jul 22, 2016
Democratic Socialists

Postby The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord » Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:12 pm

But seriously, I'm still at a loss when it comes to a reasonably concise and accurate descriptor of my politics. Any suggestions? :unsure:
<THE HIGH SWAGLORD>
If people regarded other people’s states in the same way that they regard their own, who then would incite their own state to attack that of another? For one would do for others as one would do for oneself.
If people regarded other people’s cities in the same way that they regard their own, who then would incite their own city to attack that of another? For one would do for others as one would do for oneself.
If people regarded other people’s families in the same way that they regard their own, who then would incite their own family to attack that of another? For one would do for others as one would do for oneself.

User avatar
Kvatchdom
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7972
Founded: Nov 08, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kvatchdom » Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:43 pm

The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord wrote:But seriously, I'm still at a loss when it comes to a reasonably concise and accurate descriptor of my politics. Any suggestions? :unsure:

I mean, you could try out some tests or read way too many books. I've been into politics for 10 years and I still just use general pointers instead of accurate ideologies on myself.
For: Trade Unionism, Command economy, national chauvinism, insurrectionism, cultural secularism, feminism
-
Against: Capitalism, Nationalism, Legalism, Third way social democracy, Liberalism, Enforced secularism

Politiscales


23-year old server from Finland, fairly religious.

User avatar
Cappuccina
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1285
Founded: Jun 05, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Cappuccina » Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:55 pm

The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord wrote:But seriously, I'm still at a loss when it comes to a reasonably concise and accurate descriptor of my politics. Any suggestions? :unsure:

Like, what are your social and economic views?
"The function of prayer is not to influence God, but rather to change the nature of the one who prays." - Soren Kierkegaard
"When the world pushes you to your knees, you’re in the perfect position to pray."- Mevlevi Rumi
"Human nature is evil, goodness is an intentional activity". - Xua Huang
##################
Economic Left/Right: -5.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 2.46

User avatar
Kvatchdom
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7972
Founded: Nov 08, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kvatchdom » Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:56 pm

Cappuccina wrote:
The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord wrote:But seriously, I'm still at a loss when it comes to a reasonably concise and accurate descriptor of my politics. Any suggestions? :unsure:

Like, what are your social and economic views?

You can't just ask that, it's very rude. What if he's an anprim? People will just laugh at the poor fellow here.
For: Trade Unionism, Command economy, national chauvinism, insurrectionism, cultural secularism, feminism
-
Against: Capitalism, Nationalism, Legalism, Third way social democracy, Liberalism, Enforced secularism

Politiscales


23-year old server from Finland, fairly religious.

User avatar
Hanafuridake
Minister
 
Posts: 2609
Founded: Sep 09, 2018
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Hanafuridake » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:03 pm

Novus America wrote:Well the modern state and modern armies did not exist at the time, there was not a clear line between private and government militaries.


Which is why referring to medieval leaders as warlords, excluding mercenary companies, is difficult to actually do consistently.
Novus America wrote:William also took power by force in a weakened state and did not follow the established norms of succession, being a bastard.


The Kingdom of England was not weakened, and he had already become a duke as a child. It was a struggle between claimants to the English throne and not a warlord overthrowing the state.
Novus America wrote:Sure primitive superstitions can be a useful tool to remain in power. But falls under using it to scare people and/or gain popular support.


The kings and priests of the past weren't 21st century rationalists who knew about science, atheism, and empiricism. They believed in the supernatural just as much as everyone else. This is no different from Marxists claiming that religion was just invented to control class conflict.
Novus America wrote:Because nearly every monarchical line is repeatedly broken by people seizing power contrary to the rules of succession, at what point does a usurper/raider or their dynasty become a “legitimate” monarch?


I've not introduced “legitimacy” into the discussion. I don't believe in pan-monarchy (the notion of monarchy as a generic institution) it varies from different cultures. If you wanted to ask about the English crown's legitimacy, I wouldn't be able to tell you. I can only tell you about my own, which is that legitimacy depends on patrilineal descent from the first emperor Jimmu.
Time traveling Heian princess trapped in the 21st century

User avatar
The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5596
Founded: Jul 22, 2016
Democratic Socialists

Postby The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:07 pm

Cappuccina wrote:
The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord wrote:But seriously, I'm still at a loss when it comes to a reasonably concise and accurate descriptor of my politics. Any suggestions? :unsure:

Like, what are your social and economic views?


I mean, economically I advocate for a form of ordoliberal corporatism (or similar), while socially my beliefs are characterized by a distinct communitarian and/or collectivist streak, as I view radical individualism to lead to libertine decadence and a weakening of social harmony/stability. Other aspects of my ideological worldview include advocacy for the establishment of a federal or confederal global government, and a Hobbesian belief that the state’s primary goal is to prevent the summit malum (or ultimate evil) of a “war of all against all”.
Last edited by The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord on Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
<THE HIGH SWAGLORD>
If people regarded other people’s states in the same way that they regard their own, who then would incite their own state to attack that of another? For one would do for others as one would do for oneself.
If people regarded other people’s cities in the same way that they regard their own, who then would incite their own city to attack that of another? For one would do for others as one would do for oneself.
If people regarded other people’s families in the same way that they regard their own, who then would incite their own family to attack that of another? For one would do for others as one would do for oneself.

User avatar
Kvatchdom
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7972
Founded: Nov 08, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kvatchdom » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:09 pm

The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord wrote:
Cappuccina wrote:Like, what are your social and economic views?


I mean, economically I advocate for a form of ordoliberal corporatism (or similar), while socially my beliefs are characterized by a distinct communitarian and/or collectivist streak, as I view radical individualism to lead to libertine decadence and a weakening of social harmony/stability.

Just say that. Much more accurate than appointing an ideology to yourself.
For: Trade Unionism, Command economy, national chauvinism, insurrectionism, cultural secularism, feminism
-
Against: Capitalism, Nationalism, Legalism, Third way social democracy, Liberalism, Enforced secularism

Politiscales


23-year old server from Finland, fairly religious.

User avatar
The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5596
Founded: Jul 22, 2016
Democratic Socialists

Postby The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:11 pm

Kvatchdom wrote:
The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord wrote:
I mean, economically I advocate for a form of ordoliberal corporatism (or similar), while socially my beliefs are characterized by a distinct communitarian and/or collectivist streak, as I view radical individualism to lead to libertine decadence and a weakening of social harmony/stability.

Just say that. Much more accurate than appointing an ideology to yourself.


I must say, though, that my description is somewhat akin to a wall of text.
<THE HIGH SWAGLORD>
If people regarded other people’s states in the same way that they regard their own, who then would incite their own state to attack that of another? For one would do for others as one would do for oneself.
If people regarded other people’s cities in the same way that they regard their own, who then would incite their own city to attack that of another? For one would do for others as one would do for oneself.
If people regarded other people’s families in the same way that they regard their own, who then would incite their own family to attack that of another? For one would do for others as one would do for oneself.

User avatar
Kvatchdom
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7972
Founded: Nov 08, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kvatchdom » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:12 pm

The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord wrote:
Kvatchdom wrote:Just say that. Much more accurate than appointing an ideology to yourself.


I must say, though, that my description is somewhat akin to a wall of text.

Oh I've seen worse.
For: Trade Unionism, Command economy, national chauvinism, insurrectionism, cultural secularism, feminism
-
Against: Capitalism, Nationalism, Legalism, Third way social democracy, Liberalism, Enforced secularism

Politiscales


23-year old server from Finland, fairly religious.

User avatar
Diopolis
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12236
Founded: May 15, 2012
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Diopolis » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:12 pm

The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord wrote:
Cappuccina wrote:Like, what are your social and economic views?


I mean, economically I advocate for a form of ordoliberal corporatism (or similar), while socially my beliefs are characterized by a distinct communitarian and/or collectivist streak, as I view radical individualism to lead to libertine decadence and a weakening of social harmony/stability. Other aspects of my ideological worldview include advocacy for the establishment of a federal or confederal global government, and a Hobbesian belief that the state’s primary goal is to prevent the summit malum (or ultimate evil) of a “war of all against all”.

Corporatist-totalitarian Globalist?
Trad-Catholic, hispanophile Texas nationalist and paleoconservative. Yes, my politics are in somewhat of a flux rn, so the description changes on a weekly basis.
Economic left -3.88, authoritarian 6.15
Thoughts
Abortion is not healthcare.
St Generalissimo Francisco Franco, pray for us!

User avatar
The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5596
Founded: Jul 22, 2016
Democratic Socialists

Postby The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:18 pm

Diopolis wrote:
The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord wrote:
I mean, economically I advocate for a form of ordoliberal corporatism (or similar), while socially my beliefs are characterized by a distinct communitarian and/or collectivist streak, as I view radical individualism to lead to libertine decadence and a weakening of social harmony/stability. Other aspects of my ideological worldview include advocacy for the establishment of a federal or confederal global government, and a Hobbesian belief that the state’s primary goal is to prevent the summit malum (or ultimate evil) of a “war of all against all”.

Corporatist-totalitarian Globalist?


The thing is, “totalitarian globalist” makes me seem like a cartoonish supervillain. I don’t wish to be a cartoonish supervillain.
<THE HIGH SWAGLORD>
If people regarded other people’s states in the same way that they regard their own, who then would incite their own state to attack that of another? For one would do for others as one would do for oneself.
If people regarded other people’s cities in the same way that they regard their own, who then would incite their own city to attack that of another? For one would do for others as one would do for oneself.
If people regarded other people’s families in the same way that they regard their own, who then would incite their own family to attack that of another? For one would do for others as one would do for oneself.

User avatar
The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5596
Founded: Jul 22, 2016
Democratic Socialists

Postby The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:28 pm

As a side note, the term “totalitarian” implies the morally corrupt abuse of power, which I seek to avoid.
<THE HIGH SWAGLORD>
If people regarded other people’s states in the same way that they regard their own, who then would incite their own state to attack that of another? For one would do for others as one would do for oneself.
If people regarded other people’s cities in the same way that they regard their own, who then would incite their own city to attack that of another? For one would do for others as one would do for oneself.
If people regarded other people’s families in the same way that they regard their own, who then would incite their own family to attack that of another? For one would do for others as one would do for oneself.

User avatar
Kvatchdom
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7972
Founded: Nov 08, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kvatchdom » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:31 pm

The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord wrote:As a side note, the term “totalitarian” implies the morally corrupt abuse of power, which I seek to avoid.

Is dictatorial better? Dictator was originally not much of a negative word.
For: Trade Unionism, Command economy, national chauvinism, insurrectionism, cultural secularism, feminism
-
Against: Capitalism, Nationalism, Legalism, Third way social democracy, Liberalism, Enforced secularism

Politiscales


23-year old server from Finland, fairly religious.

User avatar
The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5596
Founded: Jul 22, 2016
Democratic Socialists

Postby The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:33 pm

Kvatchdom wrote:
The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord wrote:As a side note, the term “totalitarian” implies the morally corrupt abuse of power, which I seek to avoid.

Is dictatorial better? Dictator was originally not much of a negative word.


It’s pejorative nowadays, though.
<THE HIGH SWAGLORD>
If people regarded other people’s states in the same way that they regard their own, who then would incite their own state to attack that of another? For one would do for others as one would do for oneself.
If people regarded other people’s cities in the same way that they regard their own, who then would incite their own city to attack that of another? For one would do for others as one would do for oneself.
If people regarded other people’s families in the same way that they regard their own, who then would incite their own family to attack that of another? For one would do for others as one would do for oneself.

User avatar
Kvatchdom
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7972
Founded: Nov 08, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kvatchdom » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:34 pm

The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord wrote:
Kvatchdom wrote:Is dictatorial better? Dictator was originally not much of a negative word.


It’s pejorative nowadays, though.

Who cares? I certainly don't.
For: Trade Unionism, Command economy, national chauvinism, insurrectionism, cultural secularism, feminism
-
Against: Capitalism, Nationalism, Legalism, Third way social democracy, Liberalism, Enforced secularism

Politiscales


23-year old server from Finland, fairly religious.

User avatar
Nova Cyberia
Minister
 
Posts: 2759
Founded: May 06, 2019
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Nova Cyberia » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:42 pm

If you don't have this blasting from your computer speakers 24/7 then you aren't a real rightist. Change my mind.
Last edited by Nova Cyberia on Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Yes, yes, I'm racist and fascist because I disagree with you. Can we skip that part? I've heard it a million times before and I guarantee it won't be any different when you do it.
##############
American Nationalist
Third Positionist gang

User avatar
Cappuccina
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1285
Founded: Jun 05, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Cappuccina » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:44 pm

The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord wrote:
Cappuccina wrote:Like, what are your social and economic views?


I mean, economically I advocate for a form of ordoliberal corporatism (or similar), while socially my beliefs are characterized by a distinct communitarian and/or collectivist streak, as I view radical individualism to lead to libertine decadence and a weakening of social harmony/stability. Other aspects of my ideological worldview include advocacy for the establishment of a federal or confederal global government, and a Hobbesian belief that the state’s primary goal is to prevent the summit malum (or ultimate evil) of a “war of all against all”.

Interesting....

Yeah, sounds like an authoritarian internationalist corporatism or something like that. My views are similar, sans the internationalism and Hobbes influence, of course.
"The function of prayer is not to influence God, but rather to change the nature of the one who prays." - Soren Kierkegaard
"When the world pushes you to your knees, you’re in the perfect position to pray."- Mevlevi Rumi
"Human nature is evil, goodness is an intentional activity". - Xua Huang
##################
Economic Left/Right: -5.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 2.46

User avatar
Cappuccina
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1285
Founded: Jun 05, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Cappuccina » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:48 pm

Kvatchdom wrote:
Cappuccina wrote:Like, what are your social and economic views?

You can't just ask that, it's very rude. What if he's an anprim? People will just laugh at the poor fellow here.

I mean, even if his views were ridiculous, they're still interesting to hear about.
"The function of prayer is not to influence God, but rather to change the nature of the one who prays." - Soren Kierkegaard
"When the world pushes you to your knees, you’re in the perfect position to pray."- Mevlevi Rumi
"Human nature is evil, goodness is an intentional activity". - Xua Huang
##################
Economic Left/Right: -5.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 2.46

User avatar
Kvatchdom
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7972
Founded: Nov 08, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kvatchdom » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:54 pm

Cappuccina wrote:
Kvatchdom wrote:You can't just ask that, it's very rude. What if he's an anprim? People will just laugh at the poor fellow here.

I mean, even if his views were ridiculous, they're still interesting to hear about.

Just making jest
For: Trade Unionism, Command economy, national chauvinism, insurrectionism, cultural secularism, feminism
-
Against: Capitalism, Nationalism, Legalism, Third way social democracy, Liberalism, Enforced secularism

Politiscales


23-year old server from Finland, fairly religious.

User avatar
The Xenopolis Confederation
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6567
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:57 pm

The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord wrote:But seriously, I'm still at a loss when it comes to a reasonably concise and accurate descriptor of my politics. Any suggestions? :unsure:

What are some of your most deeply held beliefs?
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Direct Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Psychedelic Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, Non-Market-Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Macs, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Economic: 0
Social: -8
NS Stats should be taken with a pinch of salt, but they're not too far off.
I'm an 18 year old Australian male* who tries to think about things but fails, as we all do. I'll regret this in 2 years tops.

*I'm sort of questioning my gender, thinking I might be gender dysphoric, so if you want, I would prefer you use she/her pronouns on me. If not, he/him'll do.

User avatar
The Xenopolis Confederation
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6567
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:07 pm

The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord wrote:
Diopolis wrote:Corporatist-totalitarian Globalist?


The thing is, “totalitarian globalist” makes me seem like a cartoonish supervillain. I don’t wish to be a cartoonish supervillain.

Wanting to install a world government kind of sounds super-villain-ey. At least to me.
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Direct Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Psychedelic Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, Non-Market-Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Macs, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Economic: 0
Social: -8
NS Stats should be taken with a pinch of salt, but they're not too far off.
I'm an 18 year old Australian male* who tries to think about things but fails, as we all do. I'll regret this in 2 years tops.

*I'm sort of questioning my gender, thinking I might be gender dysphoric, so if you want, I would prefer you use she/her pronouns on me. If not, he/him'll do.

User avatar
The Xenopolis Confederation
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6567
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:08 pm

Nova Cyberia wrote:If you don't have this blasting from your computer speakers 24/7 then you aren't a real rightist. Change my mind.

What if you're a rightist but you don't like Monarchist Germany?
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Direct Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Psychedelic Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, Non-Market-Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Macs, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Economic: 0
Social: -8
NS Stats should be taken with a pinch of salt, but they're not too far off.
I'm an 18 year old Australian male* who tries to think about things but fails, as we all do. I'll regret this in 2 years tops.

*I'm sort of questioning my gender, thinking I might be gender dysphoric, so if you want, I would prefer you use she/her pronouns on me. If not, he/him'll do.

User avatar
Cappuccina
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1285
Founded: Jun 05, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Cappuccina » Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:14 pm

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
Nova Cyberia wrote:If you don't have this blasting from your computer speakers 24/7 then you aren't a real rightist. Change my mind.

What if you're a rightist but you don't like Monarchist Germany?

I'm not even rightist, but Imperial Germany is pretty tolerable in my book, I'm rather ambivalent towards monarchism....policy is more important.
"The function of prayer is not to influence God, but rather to change the nature of the one who prays." - Soren Kierkegaard
"When the world pushes you to your knees, you’re in the perfect position to pray."- Mevlevi Rumi
"Human nature is evil, goodness is an intentional activity". - Xua Huang
##################
Economic Left/Right: -5.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 2.46

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