Right-Wing Discussion Thread XVI: Making Things Right Again

[Painisia]

Today is June 4th, otherwise known as the day in which the PRC pretends that nothing special happened on this date. The CCP Government brands the Tiananmen Square Massacre as the "June Fourth Incident". Does RWDT have any suggestions for a new name for the event that happened on June 4th 1989?

Mine is "Summer Brawl"

[Duhon]

"Fuck Fucking Authoritarians All Fucking Day Fucking Day"

[Novus America]

American college fraternities and sororities, from what I've read and seen, seem like bulwarks of immoral, degenerate and anti-social behaviour. I'm glad we don't have that particular tradition here in the UK, although the drinking societies at Oxford and Cambridge behave in more or less the same manner. Much good could be achieved if all current and last members of such institutions were banned from ever holding office.

You seem big into the banning people from public office.
After you are done banning everyone you do not like who is left?

The problem is less the Frats and Sororities and more the college atmosphere in general.
Non Frat and Sorority students are just as bad.
Also the movies show an exaggerated depiction of the matter.

While there definitely is too much drinking and weed smoking and not enough studying at many colleges it is not to the extreme often depicted in movies.

[Painisia]

American college fraternities and sororities, from what I've read and seen, seem like bulwarks of immoral, degenerate and anti-social behaviour. I'm glad we don't have that particular tradition here in the UK, although the drinking societies at Oxford and Cambridge behave in more or less the same manner. Much good could be achieved if all current and last members of such institutions were banned from ever holding office.

Nah, I`ll think those youngsters will mature with age. Be happy that there is age restrictions on public offices. The US wouldn't be pleased if a 16-year old became President.

[Duhon]

American college fraternities and sororities, from what I've read and seen, seem like bulwarks of immoral, degenerate and anti-social behaviour. I'm glad we don't have that particular tradition here in the UK, although the drinking societies at Oxford and Cambridge behave in more or less the same manner. Much good could be achieved if all current and last members of such institutions were banned from ever holding office.

Nah, I`ll think those youngsters will mature with age. Be happy that there is age restrictions on public offices. The US wouldn't be pleased if a 16-year old became President.

Well, the US does have a 72-year old with the mental age of how old was King Joffrey again?

[Diopolis]

American college fraternities and sororities, from what I've read and seen, seem like bulwarks of immoral, degenerate and anti-social behaviour. I'm glad we don't have that particular tradition here in the UK, although the drinking societies at Oxford and Cambridge behave in more or less the same manner. Much good could be achieved if all current and last members of such institutions were banned from ever holding office.

They have some of that, but the reality is that they're boring organizations which exist to manage trivially small amounts of money in order to give their members the illusion of being upper-class.
Of course, they do have morality issues, but they're hardly unique to frats and sororities.

[Diopolis]

Today is June 4th, otherwise known as the day in which the PRC pretends that nothing special happened on this date. The CCP Government brands the Tiananmen Square Massacre as the "June Fourth Incident". Does RWDT have any suggestions for a new name for the event that happened on June 4th 1989?

Mine is "Summer Brawl"

Entirely proportional use of force in preservation of public order day?

[Darussalam]

I got sent this the other day and figured some here might find it to be an interesting read.

tl;dr it's written by a German NazBol in the 30's who sought to combine the nationalism and such things of the NSDAP with elements of the KPD's platform mixed in and create a national socialist state allied with but separate from the Soviets. Paetel (the author) is a very little known figure, in my experience at least, and tends to be overshadowed by Strasser so it's cool to have some of his writings in English.

absolutely cringe

This is false. If you don't support democracy, you are not a libertarian. Simply as that.

Nice job excluding anarcho-capitalists as Not True Libertarians.

Political freedom is orthogonal to libertarian values - it's favorable insofar as it supports individual liberties, unfavorable insofar as it doesn't support them. At the end, 'right to vote' is just 'right to dictate the life of others', and in principle not at all different from all sorts of tyranny or dictatorial rule. Read Nozick's Tale of the Slave. You can say that democracy is the best system to advance libertarian values (as I have emphasized before, I happen to strongly disagree). But regardless of who's correct on that question neither democracy nor any other political institution is core to the idea itself, so determining ideological affiliation from political institution preference is just dumb.

You seem big into the banning people from public office.
After you are done banning everyone you do not like who is left?

Who's getting banned is another question, but banning most people from public office in general seems like a perfectly reasonable heuristic for me.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Nice job excluding anarcho-capitalists as Not True Libertarians.

Political freedom is orthogonal to libertarian values - it's favorable insofar as it supports individual liberties, unfavorable insofar as it doesn't support them. At the end, 'right to vote' is just 'right to dictate the life of others', and in principle not at all different from all sorts of tyranny or dictatorial rule. Read Nozick's Tale of the Slave. You can say that democracy is the best system to advance libertarian values (as I have emphasized before, I happen to strongly disagree). But regardless of who's correct on that question neither democracy nor any other political institution is core to the idea itself, so determining ideological affiliation from political institution preference is just dumb.

I meant if you support an autocratic model of a state, you are not a libertarian. Ancaps don't support a state, so they don't support autocracy.

The right to vote is a right to have a say in the running of the government, that's fundamental to liberty (assuming there is a government, hence ancaps). Even total mob rule democracy is better than the equivalently unrestricted autocracy because tyranny of the majority is marginally better than tyranny of the minority. "No taxation without representation" is the fundamental axiom of democracy, as well as one of the fundamental axioms of most interpretations of liberalism and libertarianism. Reject that, and you reject mainstream libertarianism. It is possible to be a libertarian and support autocracy, I was being hyperbolic there. But at the risk of No True Scotsmanning, I'd say that autocratic forms of libertarianism seem quite prone to hawkishness, and playing fast and loose with their ideological principles.

[Nova Cyberia]

Nice job excluding anarcho-capitalists as Not True Libertarians.

Political freedom is orthogonal to libertarian values - it's favorable insofar as it supports individual liberties, unfavorable insofar as it doesn't support them. At the end, 'right to vote' is just 'right to dictate the life of others', and in principle not at all different from all sorts of tyranny or dictatorial rule. Read Nozick's Tale of the Slave. You can say that democracy is the best system to advance libertarian values (as I have emphasized before, I happen to strongly disagree). But regardless of who's correct on that question neither democracy nor any other political institution is core to the idea itself, so determining ideological affiliation from political institution preference is just dumb.

I meant if you support an autocratic model of a state, you are not a libertarian. Ancaps don't support a state, so they don't support autocracy.

The right to vote is a right to have a say in the running of the government, that's fundamental to liberty (assuming there is a government, hence ancaps). Even total mob rule democracy is better than the equivalently unrestricted autocracy because tyranny of the majority is marginally better than tyranny of the minority. "No taxation without representation" is the fundamental axiom of democracy, as well as one of the fundamental axioms of most interpretations of liberalism and libertarianism. Reject that, and you reject mainstream libertarianism. It is possible to be a libertarian and support autocracy, I was being hyperbolic there. But at the risk of No True Scotsmanning, I'd say that autocratic forms of libertarianism seem quite prone to hawkishness, and playing fast and loose with their ideological principles.

I don't really see how tyranny becomes slightly better just because more people agree with that tyranny.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

I meant if you support an autocratic model of a state, you are not a libertarian. Ancaps don't support a state, so they don't support autocracy.

The right to vote is a right to have a say in the running of the government, that's fundamental to liberty (assuming there is a government, hence ancaps). Even total mob rule democracy is better than the equivalently unrestricted autocracy because tyranny of the majority is marginally better than tyranny of the minority. "No taxation without representation" is the fundamental axiom of democracy, as well as one of the fundamental axioms of most interpretations of liberalism and libertarianism. Reject that, and you reject mainstream libertarianism. It is possible to be a libertarian and support autocracy, I was being hyperbolic there. But at the risk of No True Scotsmanning, I'd say that autocratic forms of libertarianism seem quite prone to hawkishness, and playing fast and loose with their ideological principles.

I don't really see how tyranny becomes slightly better just because more people agree with that tyranny.

As I said, marginally. It's still horrible, but less people are being fucked over.

[Communist Zombie Horde]

"Moderate" here meaning something more authoritarian than the present governing centrism, sure.



It's a reality - libertarians cannot win with democracy. Otherwise a libertarian candidate would have defeated Trump. Who did? Even Clinton is a social democrat.

When you're pro-democratic ideology's poster child is an authoritarian dictatorship, you're probably not a realistically democratic ideology.
And that's what it is. Libertarianism- well, American style libertarianism- has as it's poster child Pinochet. Nevermind that Pinochet was rather inconsistent on being actually libertarian even on the economic issues where he imported libertarians from America to be advisors on.

Pinochet was a good leader.

[Bienenhalde]

American college fraternities and sororities, from what I've read and seen, seem like bulwarks of immoral, degenerate and anti-social behaviour. I'm glad we don't have that particular tradition here in the UK, although the drinking societies at Oxford and Cambridge behave in more or less the same manner. Much good could be achieved if all current and last members of such institutions were banned from ever holding office.

I completely agree. And there is also the issue of the ties that fraternities have to Freemasonry and other shady secret societies. I think that they ought to be banned from college campuses.

[Nova Cyberia]

American college fraternities and sororities, from what I've read and seen, seem like bulwarks of immoral, degenerate and anti-social behaviour. I'm glad we don't have that particular tradition here in the UK, although the drinking societies at Oxford and Cambridge behave in more or less the same manner. Much good could be achieved if all current and last members of such institutions were banned from ever holding office.

I completely agree. And there is also the issue of the ties that fraternities have to Freemasonry and other shady secret societies. I think that they ought to be banned from college campuses.

What did Freemasons do to get everyone to hate them?

They're included in, like, every conspiracy theory now.

[Highever]

I completely agree. And there is also the issue of the ties that fraternities have to Freemasonry and other shady secret societies. I think that they ought to be banned from college campuses.

What did Freemasons do to get everyone to hate them?

They're included in, like, every conspiracy theory now.

Nevermind the fact that the "ties" that fraternities have with Freemasonry goes no further than that they are both fraternal societies. I can assure you we do not have some sort of secret underground league with them and meet with them every week to discuss how to pull the strings on the NWO.

[Camelone]

I completely agree. And there is also the issue of the ties that fraternities have to Freemasonry and other shady secret societies. I think that they ought to be banned from college campuses.

What did Freemasons do to get everyone to hate them?

They're included in, like, every conspiracy theory now.

The political aims of Freemasonry would make sense to be wary about during the 18th and 19th century, as well as the early 20th century, for anyone who was truly right-wing because it was a secret society with both a spiritual and political element to it. The spiritual is easy enough to see as it is faux-Christianity, just look at any Masonic 'Bible' to see that, but the political was most definitely aligned to classical liberalizing forces or just simply neutral. Plus secret society with a lot of influential members makes sense to raise an eyebrow at if one is aware of its existence.

[Hammer Britannia]

I completely agree. And there is also the issue of the ties that fraternities have to Freemasonry and other shady secret societies. I think that they ought to be banned from college campuses.

What did Freemasons do to get everyone to hate them?

They're included in, like, every conspiracy theory now.

They're an easy scapegoat to explain why conspiracy theory X can't be proved. Like the Illuminati or the Jews.

[Hanafuridake]

I completely agree. And there is also the issue of the ties that fraternities have to Freemasonry and other shady secret societies. I think that they ought to be banned from college campuses.

What did Freemasons do to get everyone to hate them?

They're included in, like, every conspiracy theory now.

They have lots of symbols, are relatively secretive, and most people either don't know one, or doesn't know that someone they know is one.

It's a recipe for conspiracy theories.

[Nova Cyberia]

What did Freemasons do to get everyone to hate them?

They're included in, like, every conspiracy theory now.

They're an easy scapegoat to explain why conspiracy theory X can't be proved. Like the Illuminati or the Jews.

Honestly, the only experience I've had with Freemasonry was as a young lad when I went to this chess club at the Masonic Lodge in my hometown.

Nice people. They gave me donuts.

[Hanafuridake]

They're an easy scapegoat to explain why conspiracy theory X can't be proved. Like the Illuminati or the Jews.

Honestly, the only experience I've had with Freemasonry was as a young lad when I went to this chess club at the Masonic Lodge in my hometown.

Nice people. They gave me donuts.

Mine has been with a few members, all of them nice normal people. Not the sort who would plot the downfall of Western civilization or whatever it is that the conspiracy theorists believe they do. I've entertained becoming a member.

[Highever]

Honestly, the only experience I've had with Freemasonry was as a young lad when I went to this chess club at the Masonic Lodge in my hometown.

Nice people. They gave me donuts.

Mine has been with a few members, all of them nice normal people. Not the sort who would plot the downfall of Western civilization or whatever it is that the conspiracy theorists believe they do. I've entertained becoming a member.

I think you're only eligible to do so if your father or grandfather was a member and you're invited to join

[Nova Cyberia]

Honestly, the only experience I've had with Freemasonry was as a young lad when I went to this chess club at the Masonic Lodge in my hometown.

Nice people. They gave me donuts.

Mine has been with a few members, all of them nice normal people. Not the sort who would plot the downfall of Western civilization or whatever it is that the conspiracy theorists believe they do. I've entertained becoming a member.

>tfw you expect DaVinci Code-style conspiracies but all you get is a few Boomers who like chess

[Joohan]

Nah, I`ll think those youngsters will mature with age. Be happy that there is age restrictions on public offices. The US wouldn't be pleased if a 16-year old became President.

Well, the US does have a 72-year old with the mental age of how old was King Joffrey again?

And the professional skills of a stark...

I mean, that is if one were to ignore MSM propoganda and actually look at the state of the nation...

But, you know, that's not the sexy answer I guess.

[Diopolis]

When you're pro-democratic ideology's poster child is an authoritarian dictatorship, you're probably not a realistically democratic ideology.
And that's what it is. Libertarianism- well, American style libertarianism- has as it's poster child Pinochet. Nevermind that Pinochet was rather inconsistent on being actually libertarian even on the economic issues where he imported libertarians from America to be advisors on.

Pinochet was a good leader.

He was, but saying he was a libertarian or a democracy is a bit of a stretch. By which I mean completely false.

[Novus America]

Honestly, the only experience I've had with Freemasonry was as a young lad when I went to this chess club at the Masonic Lodge in my hometown.

Nice people. They gave me donuts.

Mine has been with a few members, all of them nice normal people. Not the sort who would plot the downfall of Western civilization or whatever it is that the conspiracy theorists believe they do. I've entertained becoming a member.

I thought they only admit men though.