NATION

PASSWORD

Right-Wing Discussion Thread XVI: Making Things Right Again

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Advertisement

Remove ads

Do you consider nationalism and patriotism synoymous?

Yes- I am a nationalist and a patriot
115
26%
No- I am a nationalist and a patriot
52
12%
No- I am a nationalist, not a patriot
43
10%
No- I am a patriot, not a nationalist
147
33%
Yes- I am neither a nationalist nor a patriot
18
4%
No- I am neither a nationalist nor a patriot
68
15%
 
Total votes : 443

User avatar
Bear Stearns
Senator
 
Posts: 4428
Founded: Dec 02, 2018
Corporate Bordello

Postby Bear Stearns » Wed May 22, 2019 11:29 am

Nova Cyberia wrote:
Bear Stearns wrote:
Or Mexico's laughably atrocious protection of property rights.

That being said, Mexico's immigration laws would be pretty swanky to adopt.

Adopt their immigration laws, and then adopt their entire country into our own.


It'd be a shitshow. Picture how bad Mississippi is, and then make it three times worse. That's what adding Mexico would be like.
The Bear Stearns Companies, Inc. is a New York-based global investment bank, securities trading and brokerage firm. Its main business areas are capital markets, investment banking, wealth management and global clearing services. Bear Stearns was founded as an equity trading house on May Day 1923 by Joseph Ainslie Bear, Robert B. Stearns and Harold C. Mayer with $500,000 in capital.
383 Madison Ave,
New York, NY 10017
Vince Vaughn

User avatar
Novus America
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26585
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Wed May 22, 2019 11:29 am

Nova Cyberia wrote:No nation's a nation of immigrants anyway (except for the UAE, perhaps, but they suck). We're a nation of citizens.


Sure. A we are a nation of citizens of diverse ethnic origin.
Last edited by Novus America on Wed May 22, 2019 11:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

User avatar
Conserative Morality
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 76675
Founded: Aug 24, 2007
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Conserative Morality » Wed May 22, 2019 11:29 am

Bear Stearns wrote:Colonial Dutch and Germans were minorities that were either subsumed into the larger Yankee nation or remained on the periphery, they never were the core.

"They weren't the core"

Okay, and?
The various British-descended people in the colonies had largely caste aside their European identities and simply saw themselves as Americans (or Yankees or Southerners or Appalachians, but still unequivocally American). This was something the Founding Fathers all recognized and even celebrated.

1. lol

2. That doesn't magically make them descended from the same ancestors, FFS
Protestants having their own internal disagreements doesn't discount that they were the core religion of the American nation when it began. Shit, one of the Intolerable Acts was the Quebec Act, which gave Catholics more rights. The Americans were pissed about this.

"Protestants not actually being a united group and hating each other doesn't discount a claim of them being the one common uniting religion of the nation"

The Quebec Act gave the Catholic Church power in modern Canuckistan. Want to explain why religious freedom for Catholics (and Jews) was guaranteed by those who fought for and supported the American Revolution? It's almost as if the imposition of religious enclaves was primarily an artifact of British rule in an effort to keep the colonists nice and divided.
On the hate train. Choo choo, bitches. Bi-Polar. Proud Crypto-Fascist and Turbo Progressive. Dirty Étatist. Lowly Humanities Major. NSG's Best Liberal.
Caesar and Imperator of RWDT
Got a blog up again. || An NS Writing Discussion

User avatar
Nea Byzantia
Senator
 
Posts: 4825
Founded: Jun 03, 2016
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Nea Byzantia » Wed May 22, 2019 11:29 am

Fahran wrote:
Diopolis wrote:¿Por que?

"Annex Mexico."
"Restore Mexico's monarchy."
"Calles did nothing wrong."

This is why.

I agree with the second item...

User avatar
Nova Cyberia
Senator
 
Posts: 4456
Founded: May 06, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Nova Cyberia » Wed May 22, 2019 11:29 am

Bear Stearns wrote:
Bienenhalde wrote:
If you really think those things are so bad, we should have never annexed the southwest in the first place.


Those things barely existed in the Southwest at the time of annexation, so it wasn't really a problem. Most of Alta California except for coastal missions was wilderness or Indian country. And the places with a larger Hispanic population (Santa Fe and Texas) were demographically swamped by the waves of Americans moving West, so it was never really an issue at the time.

Stopping at the Rio Grande was smart however. Would've been worse if we kept going.

This is where you're wrong. All of Mexico should have been annexed.
Yes, yes, I get it. I'm racist and fascist because I disagree with you. Can we skip that part? I've heard it a million times before and I guarantee it won't be any different when you do it
##############
American Nationalist
Third Positionist Gang

User avatar
Conserative Morality
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 76675
Founded: Aug 24, 2007
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Conserative Morality » Wed May 22, 2019 11:30 am

Fahran wrote:"Stand for something, even if it means committing severe human rights violations."

If you aren't willing to violate anyone's rights, you aren't willing to guarantee anyone's rights.
On the hate train. Choo choo, bitches. Bi-Polar. Proud Crypto-Fascist and Turbo Progressive. Dirty Étatist. Lowly Humanities Major. NSG's Best Liberal.
Caesar and Imperator of RWDT
Got a blog up again. || An NS Writing Discussion

User avatar
Diopolis
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13144
Founded: May 15, 2012
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Diopolis » Wed May 22, 2019 11:30 am

Fahran wrote:
Diopolis wrote:¿Por que?

"Annex Mexico."
"Restore Mexico's monarchy."
"Calles did nothing wrong."

This is why.

Hey, the second is actually a good idea.
Trad-Catholic, hispanophile Texan distributist and paleoconservative.
Economic left -3.88, authoritarian 6.15
Thoughts
Abortion is not healthcare.
St Generalissimo Francisco Franco, pray for president Trump!

User avatar
Conserative Morality
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 76675
Founded: Aug 24, 2007
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Conserative Morality » Wed May 22, 2019 11:31 am

Nea Byzantia wrote:
Conserative Morality wrote:I'm mostly memeing about Uncle Otto.

Mostly.

I'd be considered a dirty socialist by him, after all.

Rightly so, Robespierre.

That's the nicest thing anyone's called me all week. =^)
On the hate train. Choo choo, bitches. Bi-Polar. Proud Crypto-Fascist and Turbo Progressive. Dirty Étatist. Lowly Humanities Major. NSG's Best Liberal.
Caesar and Imperator of RWDT
Got a blog up again. || An NS Writing Discussion

User avatar
Nea Byzantia
Senator
 
Posts: 4825
Founded: Jun 03, 2016
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Nea Byzantia » Wed May 22, 2019 11:31 am

Diopolis wrote:
Fahran wrote:"Annex Mexico."
"Restore Mexico's monarchy."
"Calles did nothing wrong."

This is why.

Hey, the second is actually a good idea.

Thank God... somebody else sees reason...

User avatar
Nova Cyberia
Senator
 
Posts: 4456
Founded: May 06, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Nova Cyberia » Wed May 22, 2019 11:32 am

Novus America wrote:
Nova Cyberia wrote:No nation's a nation of immigrants anyway (except for the UAE, perhaps, but they suck). We're a nation of citizens.


Sure. A we are a nation of citizens of diverse ethnic origin.

Nation of citizens is catchier, tbh.
Yes, yes, I get it. I'm racist and fascist because I disagree with you. Can we skip that part? I've heard it a million times before and I guarantee it won't be any different when you do it
##############
American Nationalist
Third Positionist Gang

User avatar
Conserative Morality
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 76675
Founded: Aug 24, 2007
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Conserative Morality » Wed May 22, 2019 11:33 am

Nova Cyberia wrote:
Novus America wrote:
Sure. A we are a nation of citizens of diverse ethnic origin.

Nation of citizens is catchier, tbh.

Nation of immigrants is catchiest.
On the hate train. Choo choo, bitches. Bi-Polar. Proud Crypto-Fascist and Turbo Progressive. Dirty Étatist. Lowly Humanities Major. NSG's Best Liberal.
Caesar and Imperator of RWDT
Got a blog up again. || An NS Writing Discussion

User avatar
Nova Cyberia
Senator
 
Posts: 4456
Founded: May 06, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Nova Cyberia » Wed May 22, 2019 11:34 am

Nea Byzantia wrote:
Diopolis wrote:Hey, the second is actually a good idea.

Thank God... somebody else sees reason...

Which one? The first one or the Napoleonic one?
Yes, yes, I get it. I'm racist and fascist because I disagree with you. Can we skip that part? I've heard it a million times before and I guarantee it won't be any different when you do it
##############
American Nationalist
Third Positionist Gang

User avatar
Nova Cyberia
Senator
 
Posts: 4456
Founded: May 06, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Nova Cyberia » Wed May 22, 2019 11:34 am

Conserative Morality wrote:
Nova Cyberia wrote:Nation of citizens is catchier, tbh.

Nation of immigrants is catchiest.

An inaccurate misnomer. Most of the people in America were born here, and are citizens.
Yes, yes, I get it. I'm racist and fascist because I disagree with you. Can we skip that part? I've heard it a million times before and I guarantee it won't be any different when you do it
##############
American Nationalist
Third Positionist Gang

User avatar
Novus America
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26585
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Wed May 22, 2019 11:35 am

Bear Stearns wrote:
North German Realm wrote:So... the Native Americans? I mean, even that is stretching it.


No, not the Indian tribes. They were considered their own nations, not really part of the United States.

It's pretty stupid to tell a 10th generation white American to "go back" to Europe when his ethnic home is here.


Yes. Yes it is. Which is why it is also stupid for them to be an ethno nationalist.
Especially as most have quite and ethnic admixture anyways.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

User avatar
Conserative Morality
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 76675
Founded: Aug 24, 2007
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Conserative Morality » Wed May 22, 2019 11:36 am

Nova Cyberia wrote:
An inaccurate misnomer. Most of the people in America were born here, and are citizens.

Accuracy is for squares. National mythology is what's important. Most of the people in America can trace their roots to recent immigrant ancestors.
On the hate train. Choo choo, bitches. Bi-Polar. Proud Crypto-Fascist and Turbo Progressive. Dirty Étatist. Lowly Humanities Major. NSG's Best Liberal.
Caesar and Imperator of RWDT
Got a blog up again. || An NS Writing Discussion

User avatar
Diopolis
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13144
Founded: May 15, 2012
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Diopolis » Wed May 22, 2019 11:36 am

Nova Cyberia wrote:
Nea Byzantia wrote:Thank God... somebody else sees reason...

Which one? The first one or the Napoleonic one?

There actually isn't a difference anymore. The Napoleonic emperor was childless, so he adopted the heirs of the first emperor, who are now both the Napoleonic and the legitimist claimants.
Trad-Catholic, hispanophile Texan distributist and paleoconservative.
Economic left -3.88, authoritarian 6.15
Thoughts
Abortion is not healthcare.
St Generalissimo Francisco Franco, pray for president Trump!

User avatar
Bear Stearns
Senator
 
Posts: 4428
Founded: Dec 02, 2018
Corporate Bordello

Postby Bear Stearns » Wed May 22, 2019 11:38 am

Conserative Morality wrote:
Nova Cyberia wrote:
An inaccurate misnomer. Most of the people in America were born here, and are citizens.

Accuracy is for squares. National mythology is what's important. Most of the people in America can trace their roots to recent immigrant ancestors.


Not really. The vast majority of black Americans are 6+ generations, and the majority of white Americans have at least some colonial ancestry.

At the very least, the country is still majority descended from people who's families have been here 4+ generations.

Pretty stupid to keep calling them immigrants. Also, it's a dumb national mythology. We have better ones.
The Bear Stearns Companies, Inc. is a New York-based global investment bank, securities trading and brokerage firm. Its main business areas are capital markets, investment banking, wealth management and global clearing services. Bear Stearns was founded as an equity trading house on May Day 1923 by Joseph Ainslie Bear, Robert B. Stearns and Harold C. Mayer with $500,000 in capital.
383 Madison Ave,
New York, NY 10017
Vince Vaughn

User avatar
Fahran
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5772
Founded: Nov 13, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Fahran » Wed May 22, 2019 11:38 am

Nea Byzantia wrote:I agree with the second item...

Agustín de Iturbide had good intentions by all accounts, but he was compelled to grapple both with an increasingly liberal Congress and demands for territorial concessions from the United States, who responded to his stern stance amid negotiations by subverting him. He was compelled to resort to more draconian measures, which alienated the military and those who had wanted a constitutional monarch, and eventually lost the landowners when he raised taxes to prosecute the wars against the rebels. Honestly, despite the staunch anti-monarchist sentiments of many Mexicans, we've had two of the better monarchs in history.
Last edited by Fahran on Wed May 22, 2019 11:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
The Claw is the LAW!!!

User avatar
Nea Byzantia
Senator
 
Posts: 4825
Founded: Jun 03, 2016
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Nea Byzantia » Wed May 22, 2019 11:39 am

Diopolis wrote:
Nova Cyberia wrote:Which one? The first one or the Napoleonic one?

There actually isn't a difference anymore. The Napoleonic emperor was childless, so he adopted the heirs of the first emperor, who are now both the Napoleonic and the legitimist claimants.
Nova Cyberia wrote:
Nea Byzantia wrote:Thank God... somebody else sees reason...

Which one? The first one or the Napoleonic one?

So both...

User avatar
Nova Cyberia
Senator
 
Posts: 4456
Founded: May 06, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Nova Cyberia » Wed May 22, 2019 11:39 am

Conserative Morality wrote:
Nova Cyberia wrote:
An inaccurate misnomer. Most of the people in America were born here, and are citizens.

Accuracy is for squares. National mythology is what's important. Most of the people in America can trace their roots to recent immigrant ancestors.

Telling people their true origin is somewhere else only serves to divide American society. Time for a better national myth.
Yes, yes, I get it. I'm racist and fascist because I disagree with you. Can we skip that part? I've heard it a million times before and I guarantee it won't be any different when you do it
##############
American Nationalist
Third Positionist Gang

User avatar
Novus America
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26585
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Wed May 22, 2019 11:39 am

Diopolis wrote:
Nova Cyberia wrote:Which one? The first one or the Napoleonic one?

There actually isn't a difference anymore. The Napoleonic emperor was childless, so he adopted the heirs of the first emperor, who are now both the Napoleonic and the legitimist claimants.


What makes them more legitimate than the Hapsburgs?
Sure they were adopted by a branch of the Hapsburgs but only after the originals got removed.
The whole idea of legitimate monarchy is silly, it always starts with who can seize power.
Changes from house to house as they struggle for power.

All monarchies started out as barbarian warlords.
Last edited by Novus America on Wed May 22, 2019 11:57 am, edited 2 times in total.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

User avatar
Fahran
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5772
Founded: Nov 13, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Fahran » Wed May 22, 2019 11:39 am

Conserative Morality wrote:
Nova Cyberia wrote:Nation of citizens is catchier, tbh.

Nation of immigrants is catchiest.

Only to a Jacobin. :^)
The Claw is the LAW!!!

User avatar
Conserative Morality
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 76675
Founded: Aug 24, 2007
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Conserative Morality » Wed May 22, 2019 11:43 am

Bear Stearns wrote:Not really. The vast majority of black Americans are 6+ generations, and the majority of white Americans have at least some colonial ancestry.

At the very least, the country is still majority descended from people who's families have been here 4+ generations.

Pretty stupid to keep calling them immigrants. Also, it's a dumb national mythology. We have better ones.

>> when the percentage of immigrants in the US since the 1850s has been ~10%
>> when the number of immigrants today is 15%
>> when 40% of Americans say at least one grandparent was an immigrant

Jesus Christ, it must really hurt WASPs to be a dying breed if they're resorting to this level of bullshit.
On the hate train. Choo choo, bitches. Bi-Polar. Proud Crypto-Fascist and Turbo Progressive. Dirty Étatist. Lowly Humanities Major. NSG's Best Liberal.
Caesar and Imperator of RWDT
Got a blog up again. || An NS Writing Discussion

User avatar
Bear Stearns
Senator
 
Posts: 4428
Founded: Dec 02, 2018
Corporate Bordello

Postby Bear Stearns » Wed May 22, 2019 11:43 am

Nova Cyberia wrote:
Conserative Morality wrote:Accuracy is for squares. National mythology is what's important. Most of the people in America can trace their roots to recent immigrant ancestors.

Telling people their true origin is somewhere else only serves to divide American society. Time for a better national myth.


Really. What's the fun in idealizing America as full of strangers in a strange land rather than as an actual nation, culture, heritage, etc.?

It sounds schizophrenic. Where's the pride in being descended from lame foreigners? Far better national myths include colonial independence narratives and stories of Western conquest.
The Bear Stearns Companies, Inc. is a New York-based global investment bank, securities trading and brokerage firm. Its main business areas are capital markets, investment banking, wealth management and global clearing services. Bear Stearns was founded as an equity trading house on May Day 1923 by Joseph Ainslie Bear, Robert B. Stearns and Harold C. Mayer with $500,000 in capital.
383 Madison Ave,
New York, NY 10017
Vince Vaughn

User avatar
Conserative Morality
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 76675
Founded: Aug 24, 2007
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Conserative Morality » Wed May 22, 2019 11:45 am

Bear Stearns wrote:Really. What's the fun in idealizing America as full of strangers in a strange land rather than as an actual nation, culture, heritage, etc.?

It sounds schizophrenic. Where's the pride in being descended from lame foreigners? Far better national myths include colonial independence narratives and stories of Western conquest.

I guess it must suck for you lot not being able to say "Do you know who my daddy is?" anymore and get anything but weird looks from folk who probably have Italians or something else suitably terrifying in their family tree.
On the hate train. Choo choo, bitches. Bi-Polar. Proud Crypto-Fascist and Turbo Progressive. Dirty Étatist. Lowly Humanities Major. NSG's Best Liberal.
Caesar and Imperator of RWDT
Got a blog up again. || An NS Writing Discussion

PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Dooom35796821595, Google [Bot], Page, The New California Republic, Uiiop

Advertisement

Remove ads