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Right-Wing Discussion Thread XVI: Making Things Right Again

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Do you consider nationalism and patriotism synoymous?

Yes- I am a nationalist and a patriot
115
26%
No- I am a nationalist and a patriot
52
12%
No- I am a nationalist, not a patriot
43
10%
No- I am a patriot, not a nationalist
147
33%
Yes- I am neither a nationalist nor a patriot
18
4%
No- I am neither a nationalist nor a patriot
68
15%
 
Total votes : 443

User avatar
LiberNovusAmericae
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5792
Founded: Mar 10, 2018
Left-Leaning College State

Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Tue May 21, 2019 8:43 pm

Bear Stearns wrote:Working in corporate America has taught me that things would be best if people like Mitt Romney and Donald Rumsfeld were in charge.

It makes sense. They'll bailout your company when it screws up, thus protecting it from its own failures and any type of accountability.
Last edited by LiberNovusAmericae on Tue May 21, 2019 9:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Nova Cyberia wrote:Thank you. I appreciate your respect for my low opinion of you.
Call me Liber for short.
Not to be confused with Novus America. We are different people with very different political opinions.

User avatar
The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7788
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Tue May 21, 2019 9:17 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:Wow, you went on quite the adventure.

Mine is Generic apolitical Christian -> fledgeling and somewhat apolitical liberal -> Centre-left moderate anti-SJW -> Anti authoritarian centre-left -> Emphatically libertarian centrist -> Right-wing libertarian -> Centre-right libertarian/general liberalism.

I'm a right-libertarian, but I think I'm starting to head towards the center on economics.

That's basically me tbh.
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Direct Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Psychedelic Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, Non-Market-Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Macs, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Economic: 0.5
Social: -8
I'm an 18 year old Australian who tries to think about things but fails, as we all do. I'll regret this in 2 years tops.

I think I have gender dysphoria so I'd prefer you use she/her pronouns on me. If not, he/him'll do.

User avatar
Kowani
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16782
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Tue May 21, 2019 9:25 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
Kowani wrote:Welcome aboard... Join the left...

Even if I do move out of the right-wing part of the spectrum, I'm very unlikely to join the left. I still strongly disagree with the left on many issues.

Well you’re no fun. :p
Narcissistic (Hedonistic) Nihilist. Yes, I am edgy. I know.
Atheist and still proud of it. Spanish Expat.
Post-Capitalist, Post-Nationalist.
Rights are functionally just privileges society has deemed important.
Prydania wrote:
As a Canadian? I find Americans and their deep, deep distrust of the government to be fundamentally, critically, laughably flawed. I find some aspects of your country completely absurd. The distrust of anything remotely resembling authority is one. The gun problem that stems from that is another.

Seangoli wrote:You are spouting nonsensical drivel with no coherent thought, little logic, and at the end of it all just angry opining at the clouds based on a truly astonishly low level of knowledge or understanding of the subject matter.

0% Capitalism

User avatar
Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25919
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Tue May 21, 2019 9:27 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
Kowani wrote:Welcome aboard... Join the left...

Even if I do move out of the right-wing part of the spectrum, I'm very unlikely to join the left. I still strongly disagree with the left on many issues.


Read the Bread Book, friendo. All belongs to all! :3
Libertarian Democratic Socialist. RAINBOW! Revolutionary Catalonia and Revolutionary Rojava Forever! ^_^
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen. Now known as God-Empress Torra.
"Fascism is not debated, it is destroyed." - Buenaventura Durruti
"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns! They/Them/Their are perfectly acceptable alternatives as well :3
Suggestions welcome!

Capital - Karl Marx and Frederich Engels
Wage Labor and Capital - Karl Marx
The Conquest of Bread - Peter Kropotkin
Mutual Aid - Peter Kropotkin
Statism and Anarchy - Mikhail Bakunin

User avatar
Jack Thomas Lang
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1135
Founded: Apr 18, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Jack Thomas Lang » Tue May 21, 2019 10:40 pm

Novus America wrote:140,000 was not nearly enough. Just because of the sheer size of the place.
Sure if the Reds massed all in one place for a set piece battle it
could beat them easily but they were not going to do that.

But yes infighting was a big problem. We were not sure who we were even supposed to be fighting for.

I don't think you quite understand Russian Civil War warfare. Only a strategic dunce, which the White Guard generally weren't, would try to cover the entirety of the Eastern Front with soldiers. Most of Siberia is impassable for large armies regardless. The general stratagem was to use professional and motivated troops as a spearhead, piercing enemy lines in order to capture large amounts of territory. Conscripts covered the flanks, guarded the supply lines and gave the army some expendable manpower when they weren't running.

140,000 professional soldiers is a lot for the kind of warfare fought between Reds and Whites. Especially considering they had artillery, professional officers and standardised gear.
Catholic Distributist
Three Acres and a Cow

"In the race of life, always back self-interest — at least you know it's trying."
Rerum Novarum and Quadragesimo Anno

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Novus America
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26585
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Tue May 21, 2019 10:41 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:Wow, you went on quite the adventure.

Mine is Generic apolitical Christian -> fledgeling and somewhat apolitical liberal -> Centre-left moderate anti-SJW -> Anti authoritarian centre-left -> Emphatically libertarian centrist -> Right-wing libertarian -> Centre-right libertarian/general liberalism.

I'm a right-libertarian, but I think I'm starting to head towards the center on economics.


That happened to me too. I used to be a right libertarian on economics issues, except I never believed outsourcing to China was a good idea.
Though I was more socially right, though not extreme.
But I also had a favorable view of Islam.

Now I ascribe to a combination of the traditional American school and Nordic style social democratic economics. Center on social issues. Growing increasingly hostile towards Islam.
But I am and always have been an extremely pro military civic and cultural nationalist with expansionist tendencies.

My faith in democracy has also greatly decreased.

So fewer extreme changes than some, really a natural evolution once I realized being pro welfare and infrastructure did not mean being anti business. Once I realized the American economic dichotomy was BS.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

User avatar
Novus America
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26585
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Tue May 21, 2019 10:48 pm

Jack Thomas Lang wrote:
Novus America wrote:140,000 was not nearly enough. Just because of the sheer size of the place.
Sure if the Reds massed all in one place for a set piece battle it
could beat them easily but they were not going to do that.

But yes infighting was a big problem. We were not sure who we were even supposed to be fighting for.

I don't think you quite understand Russian Civil War warfare. Only a strategic dunce, which the White Guard generally weren't, would try to cover the entirety of the Eastern Front with soldiers. Most of Siberia is impassable for large armies regardless. The general stratagem was to use professional and motivated troops as a spearhead, piercing enemy lines in order to capture large amounts of territory. Conscripts covered the flanks, guarded the supply lines and gave the army some expendable manpower when they weren't running.

140,000 professional soldiers is a lot for the kind of warfare fought between Reds and Whites. Especially considering they had artillery, professional officers and standardised gear.


But guarding supply lines and an covering flanks would be very hard for a mere 140,000.
Most of whom were in the Far East.

Yes 140,000 professional troops in the right place could have made a big difference, if the whites had been united in organization and purpose.
But they were not, and the troops were always in the wrong place.
And logistics a nightmare.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

User avatar
Washington Resistance Army
Post Czar
 
Posts: 41689
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Tue May 21, 2019 10:50 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
Bear Stearns wrote:Working in corporate America has taught me that things would be best if people like Mitt Romney and Donald Rumsfeld were in charge.

It makes sense. They'll bailout your company when it screws up, thus protecting it from its own failures and any type of accountability.


Say it with me now: T H I R D (or fourth, if you wanna be an Esoteric Duginist) P O S I T I O N

User avatar
Jack Thomas Lang
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1135
Founded: Apr 18, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Jack Thomas Lang » Tue May 21, 2019 11:11 pm

Novus America wrote:But guarding supply lines and an covering flanks would be very hard for a mere 140,000.
Most of whom were in the Far East.

Yes 140,000 professional troops in the right place could have made a big difference, if the whites had been united in organization and purpose.
But they were not, and the troops were always in the wrong place.
And logistics a nightmare.

The Allies were able to guard the Trans-Siberian Railway with less. And we're talking about the East, since that's where most Intervention took place and needed it most.

You're half-right. The disunity between interventionists was worse though. By the time the interventionists arrived, most Siberian White forces were united under Kolchak, excluding Japanese-backed governments under Seymonov and Kalmykov. The problem was that each of the interventionists had different goals. The French and British wanted to help Kolchak, the Czechoslovaks shifted from defeating Bolshevism to evacuating Russia, the Japanese remained in the Amur region where the Americans stayed to keep an eye on the Japanese and do shit-all.

Logistics were always an issue in the Civil War, but they were worse for Denikin and he almost took Moscow.
Last edited by Jack Thomas Lang on Tue May 21, 2019 11:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Catholic Distributist
Three Acres and a Cow

"In the race of life, always back self-interest — at least you know it's trying."
Rerum Novarum and Quadragesimo Anno

User avatar
Bear Stearns
Senator
 
Posts: 4495
Founded: Dec 02, 2018
Corporate Bordello

Postby Bear Stearns » Tue May 21, 2019 11:18 pm

Novus America wrote:
Hanafuridake wrote:
It was completely their place to do so. Communism was a global ideology which proposed the abolition of all countries, this was back when the socialist movement was a very powerful force. The Allies weren't just going to sit back and watch as a movement with universal aspirations decided to take over the Russian Empire.


Except they really did. The intervention was poorly coordinated and completely ineffectual.
The only way it could work would be a negotiated end to the war earlier, no collapse of Germany, and German support.

Of course we should not only blame the Entente. The Germans with their cartoonishly idiotic approach to diplomacy played a role as well of course.
Maybe if Germany had a better foreign minister, Zimmerman was a freaking idiot of the highest order.


Zimmerman almost started a war with Mexico lmao
The Bear Stearns Companies, Inc. is a New York-based global investment bank, securities trading and brokerage firm. Its main business areas are capital markets, investment banking, wealth management and global clearing services. Bear Stearns was founded as an equity trading house on May Day 1923 by Joseph Ainslie Bear, Robert B. Stearns and Harold C. Mayer with $500,000 in capital.
383 Madison Ave,
New York, NY 10017
Vince Vaughn

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Bear Stearns
Senator
 
Posts: 4495
Founded: Dec 02, 2018
Corporate Bordello

Postby Bear Stearns » Tue May 21, 2019 11:19 pm

Jack Thomas Lang wrote:
Novus America wrote:But guarding supply lines and an covering flanks would be very hard for a mere 140,000.
Most of whom were in the Far East.

Yes 140,000 professional troops in the right place could have made a big difference, if the whites had been united in organization and purpose.
But they were not, and the troops were always in the wrong place.
And logistics a nightmare.

The Allies were able to guard the Trans-Siberian Railway with less. And we're talking about the East, since that's where most Intervention took place and needed it most.

You're half-right. The disunity between interventionists was worse though. By the time the interventionists arrived, most Siberian White forces were united under Kolchak, excluding Japanese-backed governments under Seymonov and Kalmykov. The problem was that each of the interventionists had different goals. The French and British wanted to help Kolchak, the Czechoslovaks shifted from defeating Bolshevism to evacuating Russia, the Japanese remained in the Amur region where the Americans stayed to keep an eye on the Japanese and do shit-all.

Logistics were always an issue in the Civil War, but they were worse for Denikin and he almost took Moscow.


To defeat the Bolsheviks, the Entente would've had to forgive Germany of all grievances and then present a united front for a literal conquest of the Russian Empire.

Was not going to happen.
The Bear Stearns Companies, Inc. is a New York-based global investment bank, securities trading and brokerage firm. Its main business areas are capital markets, investment banking, wealth management and global clearing services. Bear Stearns was founded as an equity trading house on May Day 1923 by Joseph Ainslie Bear, Robert B. Stearns and Harold C. Mayer with $500,000 in capital.
383 Madison Ave,
New York, NY 10017
Vince Vaughn

User avatar
Jack Thomas Lang
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1135
Founded: Apr 18, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Jack Thomas Lang » Tue May 21, 2019 11:22 pm

Bear Stearns wrote:To defeat the Bolsheviks, the Entente would've had to forgive Germany of all grievances and then present a united front for a literal conquest of the Russian Empire.

Was not going to happen.

No, they didn't. Yudenich almost took Petrograd, and Denikin almost took Moscow. Yudenich was weakened by Pavel Bermondt-Avalov whereas Denikin was weakened by Bat'ko. If either offensive had greater support in the form of Allied troops on the ground, it's completely conceivable that they could have denied the Bolsheviks two major industrial, transport and population centers, while also striking a major blow to Bolshevik morale and legitimacy.
Last edited by Jack Thomas Lang on Tue May 21, 2019 11:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Catholic Distributist
Three Acres and a Cow

"In the race of life, always back self-interest — at least you know it's trying."
Rerum Novarum and Quadragesimo Anno

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Totally Not OEP
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1990
Founded: Mar 30, 2019
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Totally Not OEP » Tue May 21, 2019 11:45 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:It makes sense. They'll bailout your company when it screws up, thus protecting it from its own failures and any type of accountability.


Say it with me now: T H I R D (or fourth, if you wanna be an Esoteric Duginist) P O S I T I O N


We're Right Above It.....
I'm definitely not OEP. I definitely don't advocate for annexing Mexico and establishing a National Syndicalist state.

True it was bad, but could've been worse
I'm ridin' a Hellcat, not a hearse
Took over at home, then jumped off the curb
Now all of my shows, they word 4 word
Broke so long, thought I was cursed

User avatar
Old Tyrannia
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 15372
Founded: Aug 11, 2009
Father Knows Best State

Postby Old Tyrannia » Wed May 22, 2019 12:15 am

Ascended to Modhood on the 14th September 2016
The Grand Fascist Empire of Old Tyrannia
⚜ IMPERIVM MAGNVM FASCISTICVM TYRANNIAE ANTIQVAE
Factbook | Tyrannian Empire | Tyrannian Fascism
Everything for Queen and Country.

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Slongs
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 142
Founded: Aug 10, 2018
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Slongs » Wed May 22, 2019 12:19 am



What's even wrong with teaching Mozart in schools? If those people really want to be "inclusive" then why not make it so that both artists are taught in schools?
This is not a sig. It's a sandwich

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Totally Not OEP
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1990
Founded: Mar 30, 2019
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Totally Not OEP » Wed May 22, 2019 12:48 am



I feel really bad for all the Tommies who died in the Great War, given how their Great-Grandchildren spit on their heritage.
I'm definitely not OEP. I definitely don't advocate for annexing Mexico and establishing a National Syndicalist state.

True it was bad, but could've been worse
I'm ridin' a Hellcat, not a hearse
Took over at home, then jumped off the curb
Now all of my shows, they word 4 word
Broke so long, thought I was cursed

User avatar
Benuty
Post Czar
 
Posts: 35880
Founded: Jan 21, 2013
Democratic Socialists

Postby Benuty » Wed May 22, 2019 12:51 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:It makes sense. They'll bailout your company when it screws up, thus protecting it from its own failures and any type of accountability.


Say it with me now: T H I R D (or fourth, if you wanna be an Esoteric Duginist) P O S I T I O N

I'd prefer to break the ideological spectrum with madness and introduce the sixth position.
Last edited by Hashem 13.8 billion years ago
King of Madness in the Right Wing Discussion Thread. Winner of 2016 Posters Award for Insanity.
Please be aware my posts in NSG, and P2TM are separate.

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Napkizemlja
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1148
Founded: Apr 13, 2019
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Napkizemlja » Wed May 22, 2019 12:53 am


Agreed, they should be teaching Wiley, Kano, and definitely Dizzee Rascal's Boy in da Corner instead of fucking Stormzy.
Last edited by Napkizemlja on Wed May 22, 2019 12:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
Dodging LEGO pieces on the floor like a boss. The new unofficial RWDT anthem. Tory and communitarian. Asperger's. Rollin' 3-4-8 Orthoboo Gang. A repentant asshole.

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Benuty
Post Czar
 
Posts: 35880
Founded: Jan 21, 2013
Democratic Socialists

Postby Benuty » Wed May 22, 2019 12:53 am

Kowani wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:Even if I do move out of the right-wing part of the spectrum, I'm very unlikely to join the left. I still strongly disagree with the left on many issues.

Well you’re no fun. :p

Perhaps it's for the best since fun is dangerous.
Last edited by Hashem 13.8 billion years ago
King of Madness in the Right Wing Discussion Thread. Winner of 2016 Posters Award for Insanity.
Please be aware my posts in NSG, and P2TM are separate.

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Mostrov
Minister
 
Posts: 2499
Founded: Aug 06, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Mostrov » Wed May 22, 2019 2:07 am


Cheer up, it will be alright, soon most of the people in the education system won't be western anyway (33% being minorities as of 2018).

User avatar
Slongs
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 142
Founded: Aug 10, 2018
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Slongs » Wed May 22, 2019 2:11 am

Mostrov wrote:

Cheer up, it will be alright, soon most of the people in the education system won't be western anyway (33% being minorities as of 2018).


That's what they want you to think.
This is not a sig. It's a sandwich

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Conserative Morality
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 76675
Founded: Aug 24, 2007
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Conserative Morality » Wed May 22, 2019 2:24 am


Stormzy's one of your's, m8.
On the hate train. Choo choo, bitches. Bi-Polar. Proud Crypto-Fascist and Turbo Progressive. Dirty Étatist. Lowly Humanities Major. NSG's Best Liberal.
Caesar and Imperator of RWDT
Got a blog up again. || An NS Writing Discussion

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Conserative Morality
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 76675
Founded: Aug 24, 2007
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Conserative Morality » Wed May 22, 2019 2:24 am

Mostrov wrote:

Cheer up, it will be alright, soon most of the people in the education system won't be western anyway (33% being minorities as of 2018).

>> minorities aren't Westerners

Not even trying to hide your racism, I see.
On the hate train. Choo choo, bitches. Bi-Polar. Proud Crypto-Fascist and Turbo Progressive. Dirty Étatist. Lowly Humanities Major. NSG's Best Liberal.
Caesar and Imperator of RWDT
Got a blog up again. || An NS Writing Discussion

User avatar
Jack Thomas Lang
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1135
Founded: Apr 18, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Jack Thomas Lang » Wed May 22, 2019 2:29 am

Conserative Morality wrote:>> minorities aren't Westerners

Not even trying to hide your racism, I see.

To be a Westerner, one must invariably be a White Anglo-Saxon Protestant. Anything else is barbaric and stinks of popery.
Catholic Distributist
Three Acres and a Cow

"In the race of life, always back self-interest — at least you know it's trying."
Rerum Novarum and Quadragesimo Anno

User avatar
Conserative Morality
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 76675
Founded: Aug 24, 2007
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Conserative Morality » Wed May 22, 2019 2:38 am

Jack Thomas Lang wrote:To be a Westerner, one must invariably be a White Anglo-Saxon Protestant. Anything else is barbaric and stinks of popery.

Daily reminder that Mozart was a dangerous Papist subversive!
On the hate train. Choo choo, bitches. Bi-Polar. Proud Crypto-Fascist and Turbo Progressive. Dirty Étatist. Lowly Humanities Major. NSG's Best Liberal.
Caesar and Imperator of RWDT
Got a blog up again. || An NS Writing Discussion

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