Right-Wing Discussion Thread XVI: Making Things Right Again

[Hakons]

From CM in the last thread, in response to my claim that he has too warm of an opinion of Roman Christian opinion:

Of course; why would I not? Christianity is deeply socially harmful. If I was told that my pledge of allegiance only counted if I added "Under God", I'd suck it the fuck up because I have loyalty to my nation. I'd grouse, no doubt, but grousing is as legal now as it was then. Christians have no such loyalty; when the reverse situation is presented, they sabotage the government until they're in power and can create a perfect mirror image.

It's sad to see such deep-seated hatred for 1/3 of humanity. There's not much discussion to be had here, since you're blinded by your own anti-Christian bigotry. I know that's not a term used very much, but I'm not sure how else to describe your visceral hatred for the religion. Replace Christianity and Christians with Judaism and Jews to see how ugly you sound. I would advise against saying anything like this in public too, since for good reason it's not socially acceptable.

[Novus America]

He literally says it is not a metaphor
“Thus the Fourth Political Theory may easily turn towards everything that preceded modernity in order to draw its inspiration.… When it returns, postmodernity (globalisation, postliberalism, and the post-industrial society) is easily recognized as ‘the kingdom of the Antichrist’ (or its counterparts in other religions — ‘Dajjal’ for Muslims, ‘Erev Rav’ for the Jews, and ‘Kali Yuga’ for Hindus, and so forth). This is not simply a metaphor capable of mobilising the masses, but a religious fact — the fact of the Apocalypse.”

It is a literal rejection of reality
“What is the manifestation of the Fourth Political Practice? It is a principle to be revealed. In what aspect is the myth realised as ritual? It becomes theurgic fact (let us recognise that Neoplatonic theurgy is the reanimation of statues). What is activity as mentality? It is the idea that thoughts are magic, that thoughts can change reality; it is the suggestion that thoughts replace reality as fact.”

I'm not a duginist - but the aforementioned info does seem more like he just wants to destroy the current global order - not literal reality.

He explicitly state it is “not simply a metaphor”, “thoughts replace reality”, physics and chemistry must be rejected, and we have to die to get to where he wants to go.

So I think it is quite clear this is not hyperbolic metaphor for mobilizing people (again he explicitly says this is not the purpose), but rather that he actually wants to destroy or replace reality, again he explicitly states thoughts replace reality.

So yeah, I think the argument “oh this is just metaphor for opposing the west” falls flat because Dugin himself explicitly says that is not the case.

Though admittedly when discussing people like Dugin and Evola what exactly they mean or intend is not exactly clear, because they do not write like a normal person would, and almost certainly are not mentally stable people who see the world as a mentally stable person would.

Almost certainly it is psychosis more than rational thought driving their writing.
Trying to come up with a rational interpretation of irrational thought is an exercise in futility.

[Conserative Morality]

From CM in the last thread, in response to my claim that he has too warm of an opinion of Roman Christian opinion:

Of course; why would I not? Christianity is deeply socially harmful. If I was told that my pledge of allegiance only counted if I added "Under God", I'd suck it the fuck up because I have loyalty to my nation. I'd grouse, no doubt, but grousing is as legal now as it was then. Christians have no such loyalty; when the reverse situation is presented, they sabotage the government until they're in power and can create a perfect mirror image.

It's sad to see such deep-seated hatred for 1/3 of humanity. There's not much discussion to be had here, since you're blinded by your own anti-Christian bigotry. I know that's not a term used very much, but I'm not sure how else to describe your visceral hatred for the religion. Replace Christianity and Christians with Judaism and Jews to see how ugly you sound. I would advise against saying anything like this in public too, since for good reason it's not socially acceptable.

"It's ugly to say things Christians themselves admit"

I don't really know what you expect, tbqh.

[Jack Thomas Lang]

"It's ugly to say things Christians themselves admit"

I don't really know what you expect, tbqh.

Christians don't want to sabotage the government, no more than Jews or "Trotskyist Crypto-Fascists".

It looks like you're peddling a crock of shit.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

From CM in the last thread, in response to my claim that he has too warm of an opinion of Roman Christian opinion:

Of course; why would I not? Christianity is deeply socially harmful. If I was told that my pledge of allegiance only counted if I added "Under God", I'd suck it the fuck up because I have loyalty to my nation. I'd grouse, no doubt, but grousing is as legal now as it was then. Christians have no such loyalty; when the reverse situation is presented, they sabotage the government until they're in power and can create a perfect mirror image.

It's sad to see such deep-seated hatred for 1/3 of humanity. There's not much discussion to be had here, since you're blinded by your own anti-Christian bigotry. I know that's not a term used very much, but I'm not sure how else to describe your visceral hatred for the religion. Replace Christianity and Christians with Judaism and Jews to see how ugly you sound. I would advise against saying anything like this in public too, since for good reason it's not socially acceptable.

What do you think of us atheists?

[Kowani]

I thought he did it because someone bet him that he couldn't create a religion people would follow, and then he started denying it once he realized how profitable Scientology was.

Writing for a penny a word is ridiculous. If a man really wanted to make a million dollars, the best way to do it would be start his own religion.

I wish I could save that.

[Conserative Morality]

"It's ugly to say things Christians themselves admit"

I don't really know what you expect, tbqh.

Christians don't want to sabotage the government, no more than Jews or "Trotskyist Crypto-Fascists".

It looks like you're peddling a crock of shit.

Tell me, can a man have two masters?

I must add an addendum that when the two masters are the one and the same, ie a theocratic rather than secular state, Christians are perfectly capable of being loyal to their nation.

[Zordennox]

I have some reading suggestions that might be good to add onto this thread, Old Tyrannia.

Revolt Against the Modern World, Julius Evola
https://www.amazon.com/Revolt-Against-M ... 089281506X

Political Theology, Carl Schmitt
https://www.amazon.com/Political-Theolo ... 0226738892

Ethnos and Society, Aleksandr Dugin
https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/ethnos ... 1128075499

I've added the first two, but I didn't include Dugin on the grounds that he isn't widely influential, nor is his work by any means "accessible" to those new to political philosophy.

I have some more reading suggestions, if you're willing to add them to the list.

Against Democracy and Equality, Tomislav Sunic
https://www.amazon.com/Against-Democrac ... 1907166254

On the Brink of the Abyss, Alain De Benoist
https://www.amazon.com/Brink-Abyss-Immi ... 1910524301

[Camelone]

Christians don't want to sabotage the government, no more than Jews or "Trotskyist Crypto-Fascists".

It looks like you're peddling a crock of shit.

Tell me, can a man have two masters?

I must add an addendum that when the two masters are the one and the same, ie a theocratic rather than secular state, Christians are perfectly capable of being loyal to their nation.

If the state is conducting actions which are against the faith than yes the individual Christian is called to follow Christ instead of the world, peaceful and through prayer with exceptional circumstances allowing for the possibility to fight back though that is rare and when it gets to that point well it probably is needed even for secular matters. What particular instances are you thinking about though?

[Conserative Morality]

If the state is conducting actions which are against the faith than yes the individual Christian is called to follow Christ instead of the world, peaceful and through prayer with exceptional circumstances allowing for the possibility to fight back though that is rare and when it gets to that point well it probably is needed even for secular matters. What particular instances are you thinking about though?

What if the state allows adultery?

What if the state allows sodomy?

What if the state allows blasphemy?

[Galloism]

If the state is conducting actions which are against the faith than yes the individual Christian is called to follow Christ instead of the world, peaceful and through prayer with exceptional circumstances allowing for the possibility to fight back though that is rare and when it gets to that point well it probably is needed even for secular matters. What particular instances are you thinking about though?

What if the state allows adultery?

What if the state allows sodomy?

What if the state allows blasphemy?

Doesn't our state allow all these things?

[Camelone]

If the state is conducting actions which are against the faith than yes the individual Christian is called to follow Christ instead of the world, peaceful and through prayer with exceptional circumstances allowing for the possibility to fight back though that is rare and when it gets to that point well it probably is needed even for secular matters. What particular instances are you thinking about though?

What if the state allows adultery?

What if the state allows sodomy?

What if the state allows blasphemy?

Preach against sin and live a life that glorifies God drawing others to Christ by living the message of the Gospel. If those in authority crack down on you for doing so than accept the punishment and pray for them.

[Napkizemlja]

What if the state allows adultery?

What if the state allows sodomy?

What if the state allows blasphemy?

Doesn't our state allow all these things?

Yes and most Christians merely complain about it and try to change the system through politics. Cenk Shapiro here however happens to think liberal institutions and values are only good so long as it works in his favor.

[Conserative Morality]

Doesn't our state allow all these things?

Yes, which is why you have Christians refusing to follow the law and engaging in hate crimes against LGBT folk.

[Galloism]

Doesn't our state allow all these things?

Yes, which is why you have Christians refusing to follow the law and engaging in hate crimes against LGBT folk.

I mean, speaking specifically of the things you cited, the christian thing to do would be to hold yourself to a higher standard and not do those things. Just because it's allowed doesn't mean they're required.

What would be interesting is if the state mandated adultery. This would cause a conflict between Christians and the state, as they are commanded not to commit adultery.

[Napkizemlja]

I guess we should just persecute most groups considering Christians have attacked LGBTQ people, Muslims have attacked non-Muslim people, white people have targeted black people, black people have targeted white people, etc. I guess we should just tell everyone who isn't native to just skiddadle on back to their historical continents given that people from all of these other groups break the law and commit acts of bigotry. And if the Nation of Islam or the KKK can't be loyal to America, how the heck can the average black or white person be?

[Hanafuridake]

Doesn't our state allow all these things?

Yes, which is why you have Christians refusing to follow the law and engaging in hate crimes against LGBT folk.

Please leave us and hate crimes against us out of this banal diatribe against Christian people, thank you.

[Luminesa]

From CM in the last thread, in response to my claim that he has too warm of an opinion of Roman Christian opinion:



It's sad to see such deep-seated hatred for 1/3 of humanity. There's not much discussion to be had here, since you're blinded by your own anti-Christian bigotry. I know that's not a term used very much, but I'm not sure how else to describe your visceral hatred for the religion. Replace Christianity and Christians with Judaism and Jews to see how ugly you sound. I would advise against saying anything like this in public too, since for good reason it's not socially acceptable.

"It's ugly to say things Christians themselves admit"

I don't really know what you expect, tbqh.

"Christianity is poisonous and bad for society but the Romans were gud, inclusive bois who loved everyone!" I see how it is. Yeah, Christians hate society and want to destroy civilization, but when the Romans genocide and destroy the Gauls, the Carthaginians, and others, that's totally acceptable.

[Salus Maior]

Doesn't our state allow all these things?

Yes, which is why you have Christians refusing to follow the law and engaging in hate crimes against LGBT folk.

Christians aren't required to commit crimes against anyone.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Christians don't want to sabotage the government, no more than Jews or "Trotskyist Crypto-Fascists".

It looks like you're peddling a crock of shit.

Tell me, can a man have two masters?

I must add an addendum that when the two masters are the one and the same, ie a theocratic rather than secular state, Christians are perfectly capable of being loyal to their nation.

The idea that a Christian is not capable of being loyal to a secular state is not only wrong, but extremely bigoted and fear mongering. Subtract the NT and your statement is textbook antisemitism.

[Salus Maior]

Christians don't want to sabotage the government, no more than Jews or "Trotskyist Crypto-Fascists".

It looks like you're peddling a crock of shit.

Tell me, can a man have two masters?

I must add an addendum that when the two masters are the one and the same, ie a theocratic rather than secular state, Christians are perfectly capable of being loyal to their nation.

Oh, go fuck yourself CM.

Christians are instructed to follow the laws of their country so long as it doesn't require them to renounce God. America doesn't require that, does it?

Or are you equating loyalty to the nation as the same thing as loyalty to your particular brand of liberal politics?

[Conserative Morality]

I mean, speaking specifically of the things you cited, the christian thing to do would be to hold yourself to a higher standard and not do those things. Just because it's allowed doesn't mean they're required.

Have you forgotten your Levitical law so quickly? Adulterers and the like are to be put to death.

Please leave us and hate crimes against us out of this banal diatribe against Christian people, thank you.

Sorry that your traditionalism addiction is enough to make you ignore hate crimes, buddy.

"Christianity is poisonous and bad for society but the Romans were gud, inclusive bois who loved everyone!" I see how it is. Yeah, Christians hate society and want to destroy civilization, but when the Romans genocide and destroy the Gauls, the Carthaginians, and others, that's totally acceptable.

"Genocide"

lol, Dan Carlin night tonight I see.

No, the Romans weren't all-inclusive, but they were a hell of a lot better than the Christian governments that replaced their pagan one.

Christians aren't required to commit crimes against anyone.

Tell me, then, in your view, what *are* Christians required to do?

The idea that a Christian is not capable of being loyal to a secular state is not only wrong, but extremely bigoted and fear mongering. Subtract the NT and your statement is textbook antisemitism.

>> sacred text says you cannot have two masters
>> most Christians identify with their religion over their nation
>> long history of trying to screw over everyone else by implementing the laws they are commanded to follow and impose in secular government
>> "I-it's just bigotry and fear-mongering"

Okay anon.

[Galloism]

I mean, speaking specifically of the things you cited, the christian thing to do would be to hold yourself to a higher standard and not do those things. Just because it's allowed doesn't mean they're required.

Have you forgotten your Levitical law so quickly? Adulterers and the like are to be put to death.

I mean that bit you'd have to take up with the Jews who want a religious state.

Christians are commanded to be no part of the world - don't take part in the political system. This was shown by Jesus who literally fled when they tried to give him political power.

The fact that lots of people are bad Christians doesn't change the command.

[Conserative Morality]

Christians are instructed to follow the laws of their country so long as it doesn't require them to renounce God. America doesn't require that, does it?

Then we're back to square one - Decian's persecutions didn't require them to renounce God, it required them to make a ritual oath on behalf of the Emperor. The US requires new citizens to pledge their loyalty to the nation - are Christians forbidden from that?

Or are you equating loyalty to the nation as the same thing as loyalty to your particular brand of liberal politics?

No.

[The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord]

Tell me, can a man have two masters?

I must add an addendum that when the two masters are the one and the same, ie a theocratic rather than secular state, Christians are perfectly capable of being loyal to their nation.

Oh, go fuck yourself CM.

Christians are instructed to follow the laws of their country so long as it doesn't require them to renounce God. America doesn't require that, does it?

Or are you equating loyalty to the nation as the same thing as loyalty to your particular brand of liberal politics?

If I may add my figurative "two cents", if I'm not mistaken (do correct me if I'm wrong) CM's perspective is that "true" loyalty to the nation and/or state requires that one place all other loyalties beneath it. In other words, Christians may be instructed (in theory, at least) to follow the laws of their country so long as it doesn't require them to renounce God, but CM believes that Christians ought to follow the laws of their God so long as it doesn't require them to renounce the secular State. My apologies if the preceding statement was impolite, btw.