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The Equality Act

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Saiwania
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Postby Saiwania » Tue May 14, 2019 2:28 pm

Quaeg wrote:"Men can't raise their children because they will subconsciously see these children as a threat to their dominance and feel the implacable need to destroy them. Thus it falls to the woman, whose mercurial emotions prevent her from ever hating the children, unlike the cold, logical man."


Its not that men can't look after children, just that chances are- a woman can perform this task better, and its not a task most men would find enjoyment in like might be the case for women. A woman's perspective and touch is more useful for that sort of situation.

The prevailing view of society is that a man should be Police/Military if not in a more dangerous but masculine and in demand role, such as something like a firefighter or automobile mechanic. The woman should be something like a Nurse, Maid, or School teacher, something truly feminine but safe but perhaps less well paid statistically speaking.

I don't think its controversial to observe that most people would find a male firefighter to be more common and accepted than a woman trying to be a firefighter. This applies across many different roles. Our civilizations have their hidden norms and expectations that people allow to play out subconsciously for the most part. It is because it is simply what works. Men and women are built differently to be more suited for different tasks than the other.
Sith Acolyte
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken!

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Quaeg
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Postby Quaeg » Tue May 14, 2019 2:29 pm

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Quaeg wrote:
Because it suits you. Because at this point in time, adherance to strict gender roles isn't necessary to the smooth running of the world. People can move away from the roles and identities that are expected of them and become happier people, and happier people make for a better society in the long run. People can really get bees in their bonnets about it all though.


If you’re saying you can move away from gender roles, why are you telling Kannap he enjoys more typically considered feminine activities just because they suit him?


Because he can move away from gender roles...? Femininity suits him.
So, this is where I write a signature. I'll replace this with something else later.
Quaeg's just a nation trying to make its way in the world. We're out-of-the-way, pleasant and overthrew the king in a violent revolt. Come and visit, everyone's welcome!
Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know it's completely irrelevent to your opinions on gender and sex
Overview. Just FYI, The flag's a sunset, not a sunrise, and the Quaeg is pronounced Kw-ay-g.

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Costa Fierro
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Postby Costa Fierro » Tue May 14, 2019 2:30 pm

Saiwania wrote:Usually for our species, the two genders are privileged in different ways within different realms depending on the culture. The men stay away from the child rearing and domestic duties just as the women stay away from warfare and the more dangerous jobs involving power tools as one example. It's not a hard rule set in stone, but is how it is generally speaking.


Except that's not what I referring to here.
"Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist." - George Carlin

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Nanatsu no Tsuki
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Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Tue May 14, 2019 2:33 pm

Saiwania wrote:
Quaeg wrote:"Men can't raise their children because they will subconsciously see these children as a threat to their dominance and feel the implacable need to destroy them. Thus it falls to the woman, whose mercurial emotions prevent her from ever hating the children, unlike the cold, logical man."


Its not that men can't look after children, just that chances are- a woman can perform this task better, and its not a task most men would find enjoyment in like might be the case for women. A woman's perspective and touch is more useful for that sort of situation.

The prevailing view of society is that a man should be Police/Military if not in a more dangerous but masculine and in demand role, such as something like a firefighter or automobile mechanic. The woman should be something like a Nurse, Maid, or School teacher, something truly feminine but safe but perhaps less well paid statistically speaking.

I don't think its controversial to observe that most people would find a male firefighter to be more common and accepted than a woman trying to be a firefighter. This applies across many different roles. Our civilizations have their hidden norms and expectations that people allow to play out subconsciously for the most part. It is because it is simply what works. Men and women are built differently to be more suited for different tasks than the other.


Men are capable of taking care of children just as well as women can. If so inclined.
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Also: THERNSY!!
Your story isn't over;֍Help save transgender people's lives֍Help for feral cats
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Kannap
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Postby Kannap » Tue May 14, 2019 2:35 pm

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Saiwania wrote:
Its not that men can't look after children, just that chances are- a woman can perform this task better, and its not a task most men would find enjoyment in like might be the case for women. A woman's perspective and touch is more useful for that sort of situation.

The prevailing view of society is that a man should be Police/Military if not in a more dangerous but masculine and in demand role, such as something like a firefighter or automobile mechanic. The woman should be something like a Nurse, Maid, or School teacher, something truly feminine but safe but perhaps less well paid statistically speaking.

I don't think its controversial to observe that most people would find a male firefighter to be more common and accepted than a woman trying to be a firefighter. This applies across many different roles. Our civilizations have their hidden norms and expectations that people allow to play out subconsciously for the most part. It is because it is simply what works. Men and women are built differently to be more suited for different tasks than the other.


Men are capable of taking care of children just as well as women can. If so inclined.


Not only that but it's certainly more of an individual basis thing as well. Person A (regardless of being male or female) can simply be better at taking care of children than Person B (regardless of being male or female).
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Quaeg
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Postby Quaeg » Tue May 14, 2019 2:36 pm

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Saiwania wrote:
Its not that men can't look after children, just that chances are- a woman can perform this task better, and its not a task most men would find enjoyment in like might be the case for women. A woman's perspective and touch is more useful for that sort of situation.

The prevailing view of society is that a man should be Police/Military if not in a more dangerous but masculine and in demand role, such as something like a firefighter or automobile mechanic. The woman should be something like a Nurse, Maid, or School teacher, something truly feminine but safe but perhaps less well paid statistically speaking.

I don't think its controversial to observe that most people would find a male firefighter to be more common and accepted than a woman trying to be a firefighter. This applies across many different roles. Our civilizations have their hidden norms and expectations that people allow to play out subconsciously for the most part. It is because it is simply what works. Men and women are built differently to be more suited for different tasks than the other.


Men are capable of taking care of children just as well as women can. If so inclined.

Yeah, the idea of saying "most men wouldn't fine enjoyment" in parenting kind of ignores the fact that every man is a cognisant, different individual. En masse generalisations give an imperfect picture of reality. I wouldn't care if a firefighter was a man or a woman so long as I got out of the burning building.
So, this is where I write a signature. I'll replace this with something else later.
Quaeg's just a nation trying to make its way in the world. We're out-of-the-way, pleasant and overthrew the king in a violent revolt. Come and visit, everyone's welcome!
Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know it's completely irrelevent to your opinions on gender and sex
Overview. Just FYI, The flag's a sunset, not a sunrise, and the Quaeg is pronounced Kw-ay-g.

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Nanatsu no Tsuki
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Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Tue May 14, 2019 2:39 pm

Kannap wrote:
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Men are capable of taking care of children just as well as women can. If so inclined.


Not only that but it's certainly more of an individual basis thing as well. Person A (regardless of being male or female) can simply be better at taking care of children than Person B (regardless of being male or female).


I can assure you that I’d trust my husband far more with successful childcare than me, a woman.
Slava Ukraini
Also: THERNSY!!
Your story isn't over;֍Help save transgender people's lives֍Help for feral cats
Cat with internet access||Supposedly heartless, & a d*ck.||Is maith an t-earra an tsíocháin.||No TGs
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Nanatsu no Tsuki
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Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Tue May 14, 2019 2:41 pm

Quaeg wrote:
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Men are capable of taking care of children just as well as women can. If so inclined.

Yeah, the idea of saying "most men wouldn't fine enjoyment" in parenting kind of ignores the fact that every man is a cognisant, different individual. En masse generalisations give an imperfect picture of reality. I wouldn't care if a firefighter was a man or a woman so long as I got out of the burning building.


Absolutely. I’m a woman and my maternal instincts are pretty much null. My husband however, I’d say he’s pretty well suited for child caring. My maternal grandpa was an amazing child carer, more so than my grandma.
Slava Ukraini
Also: THERNSY!!
Your story isn't over;֍Help save transgender people's lives֍Help for feral cats
Cat with internet access||Supposedly heartless, & a d*ck.||Is maith an t-earra an tsíocháin.||No TGs
RIP: Dyakovo & Ashmoria

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Saiwania
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Postby Saiwania » Tue May 14, 2019 2:44 pm

Quaeg wrote:Yeah, the idea of saying "most men wouldn't fine enjoyment" in parenting kind of ignores the fact that every man is a cognisant, different individual. En masse generalisations give an imperfect picture of reality. I wouldn't care if a firefighter was a man or a woman so long as I got out of the burning building.


On only a physical basis, women aren't as likely to be able to do the firefighting role as a man of equivalent age and physical fitness can. Its a really rough and tumble job that wants someone who can really break through or climb over obstacles. Biology is apparently unfair in that it has gifted the two sexes with different innate capabilities.

Sure, a woman might be able to do some firefighting, but can they do it as well as a man could and would society even want women to be doing that sort of role broadly speaking? Chances are, that's a no.
Last edited by Saiwania on Tue May 14, 2019 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Sith Acolyte
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken!

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Kannap
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Postby Kannap » Tue May 14, 2019 2:45 pm

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Kannap wrote:
Not only that but it's certainly more of an individual basis thing as well. Person A (regardless of being male or female) can simply be better at taking care of children than Person B (regardless of being male or female).


I can assure you that I’d trust my husband far more with successful childcare than me, a woman.


I understand your thoughts on the matter. I was speaking from personal experience as well. In my observations of coworkers and even parents, the best childcare providers have been based on their individual personality and sense of responsibility rather than whether they're male or female.
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Nanatsu no Tsuki
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Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Tue May 14, 2019 2:47 pm

Kannap wrote:
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
I can assure you that I’d trust my husband far more with successful childcare than me, a woman.


I understand your thoughts on the matter. I was speaking from personal experience as well. In my observations of coworkers and even parents, the best childcare providers have been based on their individual personality and sense of responsibility rather than whether they're male or female.


Indeed. It’s a personality thing more than a gender or biological one.
Slava Ukraini
Also: THERNSY!!
Your story isn't over;֍Help save transgender people's lives֍Help for feral cats
Cat with internet access||Supposedly heartless, & a d*ck.||Is maith an t-earra an tsíocháin.||No TGs
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Saiwania
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Postby Saiwania » Tue May 14, 2019 2:52 pm

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:I can assure you that I’d trust my husband far more with successful childcare than me, a woman.


Your man is really suffering if he's being given womanly tasks more than is necessary. His primary goal should be to get out there to bring home the money for the household or family unit. People don't follow the 1950's standard of the way society was structured for whatever reason nowadays, what was ever broken about it?
Sith Acolyte
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken!

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Kannap
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Postby Kannap » Tue May 14, 2019 2:55 pm

Saiwania wrote:
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:I can assure you that I’d trust my husband far more with successful childcare than me, a woman.


Your man is really suffering if he's being given womanly tasks more than is necessary. His primary goal should be to get out there to bring home the money for the household or family unit. People don't follow the 1950's standard of the way society was structured for whatever reason nowadays, what was ever broken about it?


Imagine having 1950s ideals and beliefs in 2019, couldn't be me. Why such a need for rigid gender roles? Why can't men be secretaries or childcare providers and why can't women be the breadwinners of the family - or more commonly in our society, why can't both adults in the household have careers and bring money into the home?
Luna Amore wrote:Please remember to attend the ritualistic burning of Kannap for heresy
T H E M O U N T A I N S A R E C A L L I N G A N D I M U S T G O
G A Y S I N C E 1 9 9 7
.::The List of National Sports::.
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Nanatsu no Tsuki
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Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Tue May 14, 2019 2:56 pm

Saiwania wrote:
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:I can assure you that I’d trust my husband far more with successful childcare than me, a woman.


Your man is really suffering if he's being given womanly tasks more than is necessary. His primary goal should be to get out there to bring home the money for the household or family unit. People don't follow the 1950's standard of the way society was structured for whatever reason nowadays, what was ever broken about it?


I forgot that I was speaking to you. My bad. An intelligent exchange is not something to be had here.
Slava Ukraini
Also: THERNSY!!
Your story isn't over;֍Help save transgender people's lives֍Help for feral cats
Cat with internet access||Supposedly heartless, & a d*ck.||Is maith an t-earra an tsíocháin.||No TGs
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Costa Fierro
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Postby Costa Fierro » Tue May 14, 2019 2:58 pm

Saiwania wrote:
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:I can assure you that I’d trust my husband far more with successful childcare than me, a woman.


Your man is really suffering if he's being given womanly tasks more than is necessary. His primary goal should be to get out there to bring home the money for the household or family unit. People don't follow the 1950's standard of the way society was structured for whatever reason nowadays, what was ever broken about it?


It's imagined, and it wasn't what you thought it was.
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Galloism
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Postby Galloism » Tue May 14, 2019 2:59 pm

Saiwania wrote:
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:I can assure you that I’d trust my husband far more with successful childcare than me, a woman.


Your man is really suffering if he's being given womanly tasks more than is necessary. His primary goal should be to get out there to bring home the money for the household or family unit. People don't follow the 1950's standard of the way society was structured for whatever reason nowadays, what was ever broken about it?

No man dies wishing he spent more time at the office.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
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Quaeg
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Postby Quaeg » Tue May 14, 2019 3:00 pm

Saiwania wrote:
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:I can assure you that I’d trust my husband far more with successful childcare than me, a woman.


Your man is really suffering if he's being given womanly tasks more than is necessary. His primary goal should be to get out there to bring home the money for the household or family unit. People don't follow the 1950's standard of the way society was structured for whatever reason nowadays, what was ever broken about it?


Because they don't want to...? There are plenty of people who do have a nuclear family, presumable because it works for them. Similarly, there are people who deviate from the cookie cutter mold of the 1950's because it suits them too. We're human beings, not ants in an anthill. We don't need social uniformity to give us a place in the world.
So, this is where I write a signature. I'll replace this with something else later.
Quaeg's just a nation trying to make its way in the world. We're out-of-the-way, pleasant and overthrew the king in a violent revolt. Come and visit, everyone's welcome!
Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know it's completely irrelevent to your opinions on gender and sex
Overview. Just FYI, The flag's a sunset, not a sunrise, and the Quaeg is pronounced Kw-ay-g.

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Unia Ante
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Postby Unia Ante » Tue May 14, 2019 3:01 pm

The effect of this is obvious: Title IX would become a relic of a different era, as would many other protections currently enjoyed by women. The triumph of “gender identity” would wipe out women’s private spaces, giving biological males free rein to use women’s restrooms, locker rooms, and showers. It would force battered women’s shelters to open their doors to any man identifying as a woman, potentially putting the abused women who truly need that safe space in jeopardy. In short, it would be a complete and utter disaster for women.


This seems to assume that every man is out to harm women. I think that there's a valid point in men taking advantage of this law to infiltrate and harass women, but I hope that a majority of people are more mature than to just claim to be a woman just for the access. I believe that the way this is addressed by the feminist group, saying that women may have to be subject to seeing a man-transitioning to woman naked is transphobic.

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Saiwania
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Postby Saiwania » Tue May 14, 2019 3:08 pm

Kannap wrote:Why can't men be secretaries or childcare providers and why can't women be the breadwinners of the family - or more commonly in our society, why can't both adults in the household have careers and bring money into the home?


That was one of the worst ways capitalism ever developed in the US. It really ruined the social cohesion of the country to require both parents to work to be able to afford a normal family life. When only one paycheck from one parent was required to pay for everything, that was the true golden age.

A lot of the day cares and hired help for looking after young children are nearly worthless. They don't do a good job generally speaking at what they're supposed to specialize in, and are often closed on holidays, weekends, and for other arbitrary and bullshit reasons when there is always at least still some people out there who need their kids looked after now, and not tomorrow or when its convienent for them to be open.
Last edited by Saiwania on Tue May 14, 2019 3:14 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Sith Acolyte
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken!

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Kannap
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Postby Kannap » Tue May 14, 2019 3:16 pm

Saiwania wrote:
Kannap wrote:Why can't men be secretaries or childcare providers and why can't women be the breadwinners of the family - or more commonly in our society, why can't both adults in the household have careers and bring money into the home?


That was one of the worst ways capitalism ever developed in the US. It really ruined the social cohesion of the country to require both parents to work to be able to afford a normal family life. When only one paycheck from one parent was required to pay for everything, that was the true golden age.

A lot of the day cares and hired help for looking after young children are nearly worthless. They don't do a good job generally speaking at what they're supposed to specialize in, and are often closed on holidays, weekends, and for other arbitrary and bullshit reasons when there is always at least still some people out there who need their kids looked after now, and not tomorrow or when its convienent for them to be open.


I worked in two settings via the same organization. One was an afterschool program, we offered afterschool care - and all day care on days school was out (teacher workdays, holidays, snow days, etc.) No weekends though.
Luna Amore wrote:Please remember to attend the ritualistic burning of Kannap for heresy
T H E M O U N T A I N S A R E C A L L I N G A N D I M U S T G O
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.::The List of National Sports::.
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Gagium
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Postby Gagium » Tue May 14, 2019 3:36 pm

"Time to identify as a female, hehe. Girls' locker rooms, here I come. All legally, too!"
E

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Galloism
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Postby Galloism » Tue May 14, 2019 3:37 pm

Gagium wrote:"Time to identify as a female, hehe. Girls' locker rooms, here I come. All legally, too!"

Hur durr, man inherently bad.

Give me a break.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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Mettaton-EX
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Postby Mettaton-EX » Tue May 14, 2019 3:50 pm

Galloism wrote:
Mettaton-EX wrote:the "women's liberation front" again? people are still uncritically calling them feminist when they're funded entirely by rightwing antifeminists?

Source?


even some terfs themselves acknowledge this, dude

The Emerald Legion wrote:
Mettaton-EX wrote:reminder that american muslims are more tolerant of queerness than evangelicals :)


Source on that one?

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The Liberated Territories
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Postby The Liberated Territories » Tue May 14, 2019 4:07 pm

I don't think there should be any "protected" classes, so no, I do not support this. A true triumph for equality is when we stop legislating advantages for certain groups.
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Galloism
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Postby Galloism » Tue May 14, 2019 4:08 pm


Thank you kindly.

This is very interesting, as we've had feminists on this board touting WoLF as a fantastic feminist group, one said even better than NOW (I didn't believe her on that particular point, but that's another story).

Now admittedly, I didn't research them much, but when I saw they were opposing the equality act, I felt that was newsworthy.

But, again, this doesn't particularly contradict what I've thought all along - that some feminist groups are deeply conservative and oppose equality under law. We've seen this happen multiple times, and the fact that a feminist group would align with theocrats to attack equality as being bad for women... well, it wouldn't be the first time ever.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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