The Equality Act

[Des-Bal]

It's only "valid" insofar as it's unlikely but technically possible, but it also reveals a lot about how opponents of protections for trans people think about these issues, and the underlying ideology. The fact that they are so fixated on stuff like girls being harassed in locker rooms and bathrooms by cis men pretending to be trans women says a lot about how they (wrongly) think gender identity works and what they think about men and women in general.

Gender segregated spaces were never really created with homosexual or transgender people in mind and they do not fit into the paradigms of why those spaces are necessary.

[Great Nortend]

I don't support the notion of promoting sex change as a responsible method to treat gender identity disorder. Essentially you are giving in to the mental disorder rather than trying to rid its influence from the body, which generally is the intent of treatment for mental disorders. Same thing with 'sexual orientation' really. People here are going to absolutely flail me for daring to mention it probably, but a normal human being is to me someone who has a biological sex which is the same as his identified sex and has sexual desires towards persons of the opposite such sex. And yes, this means in my view an intersex person is not normal. We should not be trying to pretend such people are normal, but rather recognise the fact that they are fellow people who need medical help to attain normality or at least a semblance thereof. Unfortunately, this does not seem like the prevailing view, and doctors are nowadays apparently happy to indulge in mental delusions for the sake of the person's satisfaction, rather than try and cure them.

However, I also don't feel like people should be able to prevent other people from accessing services, unless it is clearly advertised as a service catering to certain people, so I am on the fence regarding this bill. I don't think it is needed to be fair, and probably should be included in a civil rights act or something for those with mental illnesses.

[Galloism]

It's only "valid" insofar as it's unlikely but technically possible, but it also reveals a lot about how opponents of protections for trans people think about these issues, and the underlying ideology. The fact that they are so fixated on stuff like girls being harassed in locker rooms and bathrooms by cis men pretending to be trans women says a lot about how they (wrongly) think gender identity works and what they think about men and women in general.

Gender segregated spaces were never really created with homosexual or transgender people in mind and they do not fit into the paradigms of why those spaces are necessary.

Being quite honest, I don't see why those spaces are necessary at all.

[Liriena]

I don't support the notion of promoting sex change as a responsible method to treat gender identity disorder.

1. It's called gender dysphoria.
2. Transitioning is the course of treatment recommended by professionals. Everything that comes after this sentence is basically just you pretending that your amateurish understanding of how completely unrelated mental disorders work and how they are treated makes you a better expert than actual professionals and researchers on how to best approach trans people, which it doesn't.

[Liriena]

Gender segregated spaces were never really created with homosexual or transgender people in mind and they do not fit into the paradigms of why those spaces are necessary.

Being quite honest, I don't see why those spaces are necessary at all.

[insert TERFy argument here]

[Major-Tom]

This is a stupid idea, everyone had equal rights. But since people complained we made up rights to give them.

...How did you perform in history?

[Liriena]

Unfortunately, this does not seem like the prevailing view, and doctors are nowadays apparently happy to indulge in mental delusions for the sake of the person's satisfaction, rather than try and cure them.

Translation: "the scientific consensus disagrees with me, which means it's wrong"

[Great Nortend]

I don't support the notion of promoting sex change as a responsible method to treat gender identity disorder.

1. It's called gender dysphoria.
2. Transitioning is the course of treatment recommended by professionals. Everything that comes after this sentence is basically just you pretending that your amateurish understanding of how completely unrelated mental disorders work and how they are treated makes you a better expert than actual professionals and researchers on how to best approach trans people, which it doesn't.

1. And? I am not bound to call it gender dysphoria just because in 2013 a group of experts thought it sounded nicer. It's the same thing.
2. The inherent principle behind 'transitioning' is to accommodate the patient's mental delusions. It does not cure them, but it helps them live I suppose. I recognise that there is little research into whether gender identity disorder can be successfully cured so that the disorder no longer exists. We can treat or try to treat so many other mental disorders. I hope that there will be an effective cure or treatment soon that actually treats the disorder and doesn't just cover it up.

Unfortunately, this does not seem like the prevailing view, and doctors are nowadays apparently happy to indulge in mental delusions for the sake of the person's satisfaction, rather than try and cure them.

Translation: "the scientific consensus disagrees with me, which means it's wrong"

Keep kidding yourself that there is scientific consensus on treatment for gender identity disorder...

[Liriena]

1. It's called gender dysphoria.
2. Transitioning is the course of treatment recommended by professionals. Everything that comes after this sentence is basically just you pretending that your amateurish understanding of how completely unrelated mental disorders work and how they are treated makes you a better expert than actual professionals and researchers on how to best approach trans people, which it doesn't.

1. And? I am not bound to call it gender dysphoria just because in 2013 a group of experts thought it sounded nicer. It's the same thing.
2. The inherent principle behind 'transitioning' is to accommodate the patient's mental delusions. It does not cure them, but it helps them live I suppose. I recognise that there is little research into whether gender identity disorder can be successfully cured so that the disorder no longer exists. We can treat or try to treat so many other mental disorders. I hope that there will be an effective cure or treatment soon that actually treats the disorder and doesn't just cover it up.

1. Gender dysphoria is the professionally accepted term and it is now part of the technical jargon of the discipline you want to pretend to have an understanding of. Calling it "gender identity disorder" and dismissing the reasons why professionals no longer use it is just pointless and unwarranted arrogance.
2. Your first problem seems to be that you think being trans is a mental delusion. It's not. So you're approaching this entire topic the wrong way from the very basics. And we already know for a fact that conversion therapy doesn't work, and is in fact detrimental to trans people's quality of life.

[Liriena]

Translation: "the scientific consensus disagrees with me, which means it's wrong"

Keep kidding yourself that there is scientific consensus on treatment for gender identity disorder...

What do professional organizations in the United States say about it, again?

[Great Nortend]

1. And? I am not bound to call it gender dysphoria just because in 2013 a group of experts thought it sounded nicer. It's the same thing.
2. The inherent principle behind 'transitioning' is to accommodate the patient's mental delusions. It does not cure them, but it helps them live I suppose. I recognise that there is little research into whether gender identity disorder can be successfully cured so that the disorder no longer exists. We can treat or try to treat so many other mental disorders. I hope that there will be an effective cure or treatment soon that actually treats the disorder and doesn't just cover it up.

1. Gender dysphoria is the professionally accepted term and it is now part of the technical jargon of the discipline you want to pretend to have an understanding of. Calling it "gender identity disorder" and dismissing the reasons why professionals no longer use it is just pointless and unwarranted arrogance.
2. Your first problem seems to be that you think being trans is a mental delusion. It's not. So you're approaching this entire topic the wrong way from the very basics. And we already know for a fact that conversion therapy doesn't work, and is in fact detrimental to trans people's quality of life.

1. I do not pretend to have an understanding of psychological illnesses. The fact is, however, the terms are equivalent. A person who prior to 2013 would have been diagnosed with gender identity disorder would nowadays be diagnosed with gender dysphoria. Similarly, a claimant is the same as a plaintiff, even if in the UK they have changed terminology.

2. A delusion is “an idiosyncratic belief or impression maintained despite being contradicted by reality or rational argument, typically as a symptom of mental disorder.” A person's sex is fixed and immutable. If you have such a strong belief that you are the opposite sex that you are willing to undergo surgery to fix reality, you are by definition suffering from a delusion. Does the WHO even say it's not a delusion? To my knowledge it says that it is not a psychiatric or mental illness, but rather 'gender incongruence'. That says to me 'delusion'. It's all too easy to reclassify things when you are in control of the definition of the category.

This is irrelevant to the Equality Act anyway; the law shouldn't be so specific in protecting these 'conditions' but not others.

[Liriena]

1. Gender dysphoria is the professionally accepted term and it is now part of the technical jargon of the discipline you want to pretend to have an understanding of. Calling it "gender identity disorder" and dismissing the reasons why professionals no longer use it is just pointless and unwarranted arrogance.
2. Your first problem seems to be that you think being trans is a mental delusion. It's not. So you're approaching this entire topic the wrong way from the very basics. And we already know for a fact that conversion therapy doesn't work, and is in fact detrimental to trans people's quality of life.

1. I do not pretend to have an understanding of psychological illnesses. The fact is, however, the terms are equivalent. A person who prior to 2013 would have been diagnosed with gender identity disorder would nowadays be diagnosed with gender dysphoria. Similarly, a claimant is the same as a plaintiff, even if in the UK they have changed terminology.

What is your motivation for continuing to use obsolete terminology in this particular case?

2. A delusion

I don't need you to define what a delusion is. You should actually prove that gender dysphoria in particular is a delusion.

A person's sex is fixed and immutable.

Gender is not sex.

If you have such a strong belief that you are the opposite sex

That's not what being trans means.

That says to me 'delusion'.

Your personal interpretation of the WHO's definitions is not evidence.

It's all too easy to reclassify things when you are in control of the definition of the category.

Yeah, it's almost as if people have to actually have demonstrable expertise on the topic in order to define its categories.

This is irrelevant to the Equality Act anyway; the law shouldn't be so specific in protecting these 'conditions' but not others.

Being trans is not, in and of itself, a 'condition'. Gender dysphoria is not synonymous with being trans. Gender dysphoria is a common consequence of being trans.

[The New California Republic]

I don't support the notion of promoting sex change as a responsible method to treat gender identity disorder. Essentially you are giving in to the mental disorder rather than trying to rid its influence from the body, which generally is the intent of treatment for mental disorders.

What if there is no other treatment for it? What if transitioning is the treatment? And what is your objection if that is the case?

Same thing with 'sexual orientation' really. People here are going to absolutely flail me for daring to mention it probably, but a normal human being is to me someone who has a biological sex which is the same as his identified sex and has sexual desires towards persons of the opposite such sex.

Homosexuality is not a mental disorder.

recognise the fact that they are fellow people who need medical help to attain normality or at least a semblance thereof.

Again, what if there is no other treatment for it? What if transitioning is the treatment?

[Chessmistress]

I agree with WoLF position, the so-called "equality" act is part of a wider war on women.
As for OP's claims: WoLF isn't "conservative" or "conservative feminists", there's no such thing, it's a Radical Feminist organization.

More about the topic at hand, recent news on Feminist Current:
https://www.feministcurrent.com/2019/03 ... on-friday/

Women’s Liberation Front hosts Sheila Jeffreys at an event called, “Gender Hurts: The Feminist Fight Against Gender,” taking place in New York City on Friday, March 15. The Declaration on Women’s Sex-Based Rights, arguing that gender identity legislation trumps women’s sex-based rights, launches afterwards, at 7PM.

[Galloism]

I agree with WoLF position, the so-called "equality" act is part of a wider war on women.
As for OP's claims: WoLF isn't "conservative" or "conservative feminists", there's no such thing, it's a Radical Feminist organization.

I mean, radical feminists are usually pretty conservative. They're the ones who fought against statutory rape being a crime that can be committed against boys when that issue was being raised in the United States.

More about the topic at hand, recent news on Feminist Current:
https://www.feministcurrent.com/2019/03 ... on-friday/

Women’s Liberation Front hosts Sheila Jeffreys at an event called, “Gender Hurts: The Feminist Fight Against Gender,” taking place in New York City on Friday, March 15. The Declaration on Women’s Sex-Based Rights, arguing that gender identity legislation trumps women’s sex-based rights, launches afterwards, at 7PM.

But why should women have sex-based rights? Shouldn't rights be equal to everyone?

Explain why women should have rights that men, trans persons, etc, don't.

[The Emerald Legion]

Keep kidding yourself that there is scientific consensus on treatment for gender identity disorder...

What do professional organizations in the United States say about it, again?

What does that matter? Professional scientists at one point said drinking radioactive waste would cure arthritis. Professional scientists at one point thought slavery was ok. Eugenics was a respectable branch of science at one point.

[Proctopeo]

This is a good thing, this brings us on the road to more equality, I hope it succeeds.

In my defense, I did look them up on wikipedia - and wikipedia refers to them explicitly as a feminist organization, and has four sources (from the Advocate, NBC News, The Daily Northwestern, and The Santa Fe New Mexican), all of which refer to WoLF as a feminist organization.

It's common for feminist groups, and feminists, to be derided as "antifeminist" or "not feminist" for going against the tendency of whoever is leveling the accusation. It's not a new tactic or trend.
The rule of thumb is, if they consider themselves feminist, they probably are.

It's just certain people pulling the "No True Scotsman" fallacy by disassociating themselves and what they imagine to be feminism from groups and organisations that inherently prove what quite a few of us already know: feminism is inherently anti-equality.

You go too far. There's some redeeming members out there.

IIRC isn't Sommers one?

[Kowani]

What do professional organizations in the United States say about it, again?

What does that matter? Professional scientists at one point said drinking radioactive waste would cure arthritis. Professional scientists at one point thought slavery was ok. Eugenics was a respectable branch of science at one point.

Surprisingly enough, things have gotten better in terms of how conclusions are reached in the scientific community. You should try learning about it sometime.

[West Leas Oros 2]

But why should women have sex-based rights? Shouldn't rights be equal to everyone?

Explain why women should have rights that men, trans persons, etc, don't.

[Insert shitty TERF argument here]

[Proctopeo]

But why should women have sex-based rights? Shouldn't rights be equal to everyone?

Explain why women should have rights that men, trans persons, etc, don't.

[Insert shitty TERF argument here]

Women are special and magical because men came from Mars and corrupted mankind /s

[West Leas Oros 2]

[Insert shitty TERF argument here]

Women are special and magical because men came from Mars and corrupted mankind /s

I think you mean WOMANkind you sexist! /s

[Proctopeo]

Women are special and magical because men came from Mars and corrupted mankind /s

I think you mean WOMANkind you sexist! /s

wombyxnkind /s

[The Discipled]

This has been law within the EU and the UK for years - utter fear mongering from individuals claiming transgender individuals will be able to sue another person "purely by vocation". Not to mention this would render laws within states discriminating on the basis of gender or sexual orientation illegal - there's nothing "concerning" about this law, and merely replicates existing regulations incorporated in the UK in 2015.

It's an utter sham that the United States has not passed legislation like this whatsoever at the federal level, about time it caught up to the rest of the industrialised world.

[Saiwania]

It's an utter sham that the United States has not passed legislation like this whatsoever at the federal level, about time it caught up to the rest of the industrialised world.

I think it to be more of a sham that other countries have adopted this or similar legislation. If another country has done it, usually its a reason to not do it- so far as I'm concerned. American Exceptionalism is a good standard to maintain. Part of the allure of the US is that it isn't like "other countries" in good ways.

[Des-Bal]

Being quite honest, I don't see why those spaces are necessary at all.

In my undergrad they wouldn't allow mixed sex housing. Four of my room mates were gay.