2019-2020 US Election Megathread II: Tim Ryan's Empire

[Hakons]

Trump one elections in those 30 states and that Maine congressional district.

Yes, that's exactly my point. Trump won the election, the election in which he was competing against Clinton and some irrelevant randos. It was not a competition between big and small states, so it makes no sense to talk about the electoral college levelling the field between big and small states.

There is no such thing, nor has there ever been, a truly national election in the United States. The election for President and Vice President is the sum results of the actual elections in the states.

Sort of, yes.

Okay yeah, I understand you. You're right, states don't compete against one another.

[Telconi]

How is choosing a president not a competition between big and small states?

It's a competition between candidates. That's what elections are. People put themselves forward for office and set out their case for why people should vote for them. Trump won the election in 2016, not 30 states and ME-02.

And it's therefore a competition between those candidate's ideologies, and the supporters thereof. Who quite handily split into big and small states. Or at least urban and rural densities.

[Ifreann]

It's a competition between candidates. That's what elections are. People put themselves forward for office and set out their case for why people should vote for them. Trump won the election in 2016, not 30 states and ME-02.

And it's therefore a competition between those candidate's ideologies, and the supporters thereof. Who quite handily split into big and small states. Or at least urban and rural densities.

In the same way that the Super Bowl is a competition between two sets of fans.

[San Lumen]

It would violate one man one vote

We've had this debate enough now, that you should realize that line doesn't work on me.

How would it be fair or democratic for someone to get 60 percent of the vote and not win statewide office in New York? Land area mattering more than votes is unfair

In Washington state the counties that border Puget Sound decide statewide elections as they are the majority of the population. A democrat will very likely win most statewide offices next year. How would be fair if the republican won because of land area? Someone of the other party would be unlikely to win

[Telconi]

And it's therefore a competition between those candidate's ideologies, and the supporters thereof. Who quite handily split into big and small states. Or at least urban and rural densities.

In the same way that the Super Bowl is a competition between two sets of fans.

Fans don't effect the outcome of the Super Bowl, voters effect the outcome of an election.

[Telconi]

We've had this debate enough now, that you should realize that line doesn't work on me.

How would it be fair or democratic for someone to get 60 percent of the vote and not win statewide office in New York? Land area mattering more than votes is unfair

In Washington state the counties that border Puget Sound decide statewide elections as they are the majority of the population. A democrat will very likely win most statewide offices next year. How would be fair if the republican won because of land area? Someone of the other party would be unlikely to win

Nobody cares.

[Tarsonis]

We've had this debate enough now, that you should realize that line doesn't work on me.

How would it be fair or democratic for someone to get 60 percent of the vote and not win statewide office in New York? Land area mattering more than votes is unfair

In Washington state the counties that border Puget Sound decide statewide elections as they are the majority of the population. A democrat will very likely win most statewide offices next year. How would be fair if the republican won because of land area? Someone of the other party would be unlikely to win

Let’s use New York as an example. 64% of the population lives in the NYMA.
Now let’s look at the voting dispersal in 2016:

The real question is, why is it fair that all of those other people get dictated to by the people of the NYMA?

[San Lumen]

How would it be fair or democratic for someone to get 60 percent of the vote and not win statewide office in New York? Land area mattering more than votes is unfair

In Washington state the counties that border Puget Sound decide statewide elections as they are the majority of the population. A democrat will very likely win most statewide offices next year. How would be fair if the republican won because of land area? Someone of the other party would be unlikely to win

Let’s use New York as an example. 64% of the population lives in the NYMA.
Now let’s look at the voting dispersal in 2016:

The real question is, why is it fair that all of those other people get dictated to by the people of the NYMA?

Number of votes received should matter more than land area. Farms, trees and cattle don’t vote

[West Leas Oros 2]

Let’s use New York as an example. 64% of the population lives in the NYMA.
Now let’s look at the voting dispersal in 2016:

The real question is, why is it fair that all of those other people get dictated to by the people of the NYMA?

Number of votes received should matter more than land area. Farms, trees and cattle don’t vote

I don't see why some people should be able to dictate others simply because they live in a more population dense area. The last thing I want is giant urban cities dictating the lives of small rural communities. This is a good thing about federations, it gives power to smaller regions.

[Telconi]

Let’s use New York as an example. 64% of the population lives in the NYMA.
Now let’s look at the voting dispersal in 2016:

The real question is, why is it fair that all of those other people get dictated to by the people of the NYMA?

Number of votes received should matter more than land area. Farms, trees and cattle don’t vote

See. That's where we disagree, tuh duh.

[Tarsonis]

Let’s use New York as an example. 64% of the population lives in the NYMA.
Now let’s look at the voting dispersal in 2016:

(Image)

The real question is, why is it fair that all of those other people get dictated to by the people of the NYMA?

Number of votes received should matter more than land area. Farms, trees and cattle don’t vote

Why is that more fair? Why is it fair that culturally homogenous group A, gets to dictate to culturally homogeneous group B, just because Group A has more people, even though group B controls more land area and some live hundreds of miles away from group A?

[Telconi]

Number of votes received should matter more than land area. Farms, trees and cattle don’t vote

Why is that more fair?

Fairness is defined by the advantages leveraged to Lumen's favorite political party.

[Tarsonis]

Why is that more fair?

Fairness is defined by the advantages leveraged to Lumen's favorite political party.

We’re not allowed to say that apparently. They get mad when you go for the obvious.

[Shrillland]

It's a competition between candidates. That's what elections are. People put themselves forward for office and set out their case for why people should vote for them. Trump won the election in 2016, not 30 states and ME-02.

And it's therefore a competition between those candidate's ideologies, and the supporters thereof. Who quite handily split into big and small states. Or at least urban and rural densities.

Not necessarily true. Texas is big, has a good-sized urban density, and still votes Republican. Most New England states are smaller and more rural and still vote Democratic.

[Telconi]

And it's therefore a competition between those candidate's ideologies, and the supporters thereof. Who quite handily split into big and small states. Or at least urban and rural densities.

Not necessarily true. Texas is big, has a good-sized urban density, and still votes Republican. Most New England states are smaller and more rural and still vote Democratic.

States aren't homogeneous.

[Shrillland]

Not necessarily true. Texas is big, has a good-sized urban density, and still votes Republican. Most New England states are smaller and more rural and still vote Democratic.

States aren't homogeneous.

No, they aren't, but it does defeat the idea that its a contest between big and small states since they are just as likely to be as different from one another as they are from their opposing class.

[San Lumen]

Number of votes received should matter more than land area. Farms, trees and cattle don’t vote

Why is that more fair? Why is it fair that culturally homogenous group A, gets to dictate to culturally homogeneous group B, just because Group A has more people, even though group B controls more land area and some live hundreds of miles away from group A?

Because, farms, cattle and trees don’t cast ballots.

I guess it’s unfair Cindy Axne is a Congresswoman from Iowa because the only county she won in her district was Polk County which is Des Moines.

In a state like Nevada where 75 percent of state is in Clark county and another 15 percent in washoe under a system like your proposing the Republican would always win. 15 percent of the state would be deciding statewide elections. How is that fair?

[Telconi]

States aren't homogeneous.

No, they aren't, but it does defeat the idea that its a contest between big and small states since they are just as likely to be as different from one another as they are from their opposing class.

I stated that it was a competition between urban and rural peoples, but because the electoral college measures by state, this gets aggregated into a state vs state contest.

[Telconi]

Why is that more fair? Why is it fair that culturally homogenous group A, gets to dictate to culturally homogeneous group B, just because Group A has more people, even though group B controls more land area and some live hundreds of miles away from group A?

Because, farms, cattle and trees don’t cast ballots.

I guess it’s unfair Cindy Axne is a Congresswoman from Iowa because the only county she won in her district was Polk County which is Des Moines.

In a state like Nevada where 75 percent of state is in Clark county and another 15 percent in washoe under a system like your proposing the Republican would always win. 15 percent of the state would be deciding statewide elections. How is that fair?

Perhaps farms, cattle and trees should cast ballots?

I'd love to have 1800 more votes.

[Galloism]

Because, farms, cattle and trees don’t cast ballots.

I guess it’s unfair Cindy Axne is a Congresswoman from Iowa because the only county she won in her district was Polk County which is Des Moines.

In a state like Nevada where 75 percent of state is in Clark county and another 15 percent in washoe under a system like your proposing the Republican would always win. 15 percent of the state would be deciding statewide elections. How is that fair?

Perhaps farms, cattle and trees should cast ballots?

I'd love to have 1800 more votes.

Oh I have a big section of woods on my property. I'd love to have a few thousand more votes.

[Telconi]

Perhaps farms, cattle and trees should cast ballots?

I'd love to have 1800 more votes.

Oh I have a big section of woods on my property. I'd love to have a few thousand more votes.

Screw off forest lord, wild trees don't count.

[West Leas Oros 2]

Oh I have a big section of woods on my property. I'd love to have a few thousand more votes.

Screw off forest lord, wild trees don't count.

I will smite thee for angering the Tree Gods, they will send an army of angry lumberjacks to destroy you.

[Thuzbekistan]

It's called the long game Gorm. Yes they're not gonna start voting tomorrow, but down the line. They're building their voting blocs. I wouldn't call it rigging elections, it's just a self serving and cynical method of determining immigration policy.

All the while the Republicans game the congressional district lines and ratchet up the voting requirements, not to mention Donnie's sanctimonious and hypocritical proposal to change to a merit-based immigration is going to shut out most of the immigrants you're scared are going to vote Democrat.

Whataboutism

[Galloism]

Oh I have a big section of woods on my property. I'd love to have a few thousand more votes.

Screw off forest lord, wild trees don't count.

Those trees are my friends!

[Telconi]

Screw off forest lord, wild trees don't count.

Those trees are my friends!

All the more reason they shouldn't get to vote