2019-2020 US Election Megathread II: Tim Ryan's Empire

[Liriena]

Friendly reminder that the working class is not and has never been Trump's base. Small business tyrant morons from the suburbs have been a far more consistent source of Trumpism than laid off miners.

[Liriena]

Warren just keeps holding townhalls all over the country, listening to people, dropping kickass policy idea after kickass policy idea... and yet it's Biden, with his "fuck young people and workers" platform, that's in the double digits.

Just end me.

Perhaps the American public doesn't share your beliefs in regards to which policy proposals are "kick ass"?

Polling says otherwise. But Biden has name recognition and charisma.

[Hereana]

Friendly reminder that the working class is not and has never been Trump's base. Small business tyrant morons from the suburbs have been a far more consistent source of Trumpism than laid off miners.

Er, yeah, if you say so.

[Valrifell]

No, actually, most drugs are smuggled through legal ports of entry and aren't run across the desert like a bad 80s cop show. Rapists can legally immigrate and aren't strictly limited to Mexico, you realize.

You're not doing a good job of making this not a racist dogwhistle.

More drugs are caught at legal ports of entry. That means nothing. Ah, the racist card. Classic SJW move!

So you have nothing to support your point, no data, not even an estimation of how much contraband is muled through the desert, and are instead just hoping I believe you? Besides, even if I were to accept that, you still have to account for the submarines and digging equipment that they'd just buy. If the wall has to be patrolled, what is even the point.

There's not a whole lot else to call it, really. You're fixated on the idea that building a wall would make an appreciable dent in rape or crime when it self-evidently won't, considering the overwhelming majority of all crime is conducted by American citizens.

[Sidesh0w B0b]

If Trump runs, Trump will win. He is a populist. He appeals to the working people because he doesn't call them "racist" or "sexist" when they deviate from a guarded and politically correct way of thinking. Democrats - most of them, not all - think within a framework that what they're doing is correct and for the benefit of society, that they are politically correct. But when people stray from them, their framework doesn't change. Most Republican frameworks shift to adjust to the new information, Democrats do not. Instead, they fill in the information into their existing frameworks...people didn't listen to their message of hope and equality, as they believe it to be, and so those people must be racist and sexist, homophobic and transphobic bigots! Usually, this isn't true.

The reason Trump won in 2016 is the same reason Brexit won. The working class is sick and tired to being told what to do and what is right by their upperclassmen. So when a breath of fresh air walks in - Nigel Farage or Donald Trump - that appeals to them, that doesn't call them bigots at every turn, of course they're going to vote for those people. And it will continue happening until the Democrats as a majority shift their framework and adjust their method to appeal to the working class.

I think there's also the security of thinking that sinceTrump is rich, so he can't be bought. The truth of this statement, I don't know.

As far as I know, the Democrats have not switched their focus to populism and tried to identify with the working class... for this reason, they won't win. Trump will. Maybe these words will come back to bite me, and surprise-surprise Trump didn't win. However, I'm still convinced he will win.

I'm British btw, so I can only make assumptions based on similar results in my own country.

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Maybe.

Trump won bc of Comey letter and Clinton's ineptitude. Trump himself said that if the election had been held 10 days in a row he'd have a lost nine out of 10 times.

If you haven't noticed, rich people buy each other off all the time.

The working class people like leaders that aren't deadbeats and actually pay some taxes. Not dodging them with exotic combo of exotic write offs and flat out fraud. The Holy Grail of defeating Trump is actually exposing his taxes, if there ever released he's finished. Romney said there's a bomb in his taxes back in March 2016. One day that bomb will be unleashed. In America it's always about the money.

Good luck with Brexit mess.

[Valrifell]

Perhaps the American public doesn't share your beliefs in regards to which policy proposals are "kick ass"?

Polling says otherwise. But Biden has name recognition and charisma.

If the others want to beat Biden, they're gonna have to start mudslinging. The dude is a walking gaffe mine of ill-thought out quotes that'll make the younger and more progressive wings of the party turn on him hard.

The only way Biden wins is if nobody really directly challenges him all that hard.

[Telconi]

Friendly reminder that the working class is not and has never been Trump's base. Small business tyrant morons from the suburbs have been a far more consistent source of Trumpism than laid off miners.

Iunno, there are enough MAGA hats between my coworker's to hold a damn Trump rally and have some left over.

[Libertas Omnium Maximus]

More drugs are caught at legal ports of entry. That means nothing. Ah, the racist card. Classic SJW move!

So you have nothing to support your point, no data, not even an estimation of how much contraband is muled through the desert, and are instead just hoping I believe you? Besides, even if I were to accept that, you still have to account for the submarines and digging equipment that they'd just buy. If the wall has to be patrolled, what is even the point.

There's not a whole lot else to call it, really. You're fixated on the idea that building a wall would make an appreciable dent in rape or crime when it self-evidently won't, considering the overwhelming majority of all crime is conducted by American citizens.

There is no way to calculate (in my favor or yours) the number of drugs coming into the nation illegally via the Mexico border. Its very nature makes it incalculable. You argue that more drugs are caught at legal points of entry and all I say to that is: "nice, we know that the legal points of entry are doing their job."

Americans commit crime in America, well... no duh! I would hope that the majority is perpetrated by Americans. Otherwise our border situation is far worse than I realized.

[Sidesh0w B0b]

Polling says otherwise. But Biden has name recognition and charisma.

If the others want to beat Biden, they're gonna have to start mudslinging. The dude is a walking gaffe mine of ill-thought out quotes that'll make the younger and more progressive wings of the party turn on him hard.

The only way Biden wins is if nobody really directly challenges him all that hard.

A lot of these folks are thinking of how Biden got chosen as Obama's veep. Biden didn't toss mud in 2008. Also knowing Biden's age perhaps makes the vice presidency that much more valuable. I really don't see many of them trashing Joe.

[Valrifell]

So you have nothing to support your point, no data, not even an estimation of how much contraband is muled through the desert, and are instead just hoping I believe you? Besides, even if I were to accept that, you still have to account for the submarines and digging equipment that they'd just buy. If the wall has to be patrolled, what is even the point.

There's not a whole lot else to call it, really. You're fixated on the idea that building a wall would make an appreciable dent in rape or crime when it self-evidently won't, considering the overwhelming majority of all crime is conducted by American citizens.

There is no way to calculate (in my favor or yours) the number of drugs coming into the nation illegally via the Mexico border. Its very nature makes it incalculable. You argue that more drugs are caught at legal points of entry and all I say to that is: "nice, we know that the legal points of entry are doing their job."

So instead of interacting with the other points I raised in that post, you opted to repeat yourself. I'll save myself a little trouble and just say reread the bolded bit in my post.

[Libertas Omnium Maximus]

There is no way to calculate (in my favor or yours) the number of drugs coming into the nation illegally via the Mexico border. Its very nature makes it incalculable. You argue that more drugs are caught at legal points of entry and all I say to that is: "nice, we know that the legal points of entry are doing their job."

So instead of interacting with the other points I raised in that post, you opted to repeat yourself. I'll save myself a little trouble and just say reread the bolded bit in my post.

Having to dig a long tunnel should dissuade many people. Constant security of the border and its surrounding area does the rest. Most of these people don't have that much money.

[Valrifell]

So instead of interacting with the other points I raised in that post, you opted to repeat yourself. I'll save myself a little trouble and just say reread the bolded bit in my post.

Having to dig a long tunnel should dissuade many people. Constant security of the border and its surrounding area does the rest. Most of these people don't have that much money.

The cartels?

They're loaded, you understand, and the US is a huge narcotic market. Staying out of it is simply not an option. As I said, if the border has to be patrolled regardless, what purpose does the wall serve?

[Valrifell]

If the others want to beat Biden, they're gonna have to start mudslinging. The dude is a walking gaffe mine of ill-thought out quotes that'll make the younger and more progressive wings of the party turn on him hard.

The only way Biden wins is if nobody really directly challenges him all that hard.

A lot of these folks are thinking of how Biden got chosen as Obama's veep. Biden didn't toss mud in 2008. Also knowing Biden's age perhaps makes the vice presidency that much more valuable. I really don't see many of them trashing Joe.

Biden's got a lot of bad quotes and gaffes in his past and his age is a huge liability for him running to be president (ditto for Sanders for that matter), any successful candidate would just have to reframe the issue to getting rid of the literal fossils in the room and quote mining his long and (occasionally controversial) career.

[Libertas Omnium Maximus]

Having to dig a long tunnel should dissuade many people. Constant security of the border and its surrounding area does the rest. Most of these people don't have that much money.

The cartels?

They're loaded, you understand, and the US is a huge narcotic market. Staying out of it is simply not an option. As I said, if the border has to be patrolled regardless, what purpose does the wall serve?

The cartels are loaded and thus will find a way around, that is what patrol is for. The wall should dissuade you average drug dealer from trying to come over.

Why a wall when you still need guards? I don't know? Probably the same reason you lock your door even though police exist.

[Sidesh0w B0b]

A lot of these folks are thinking of how Biden got chosen as Obama's veep. Biden didn't toss mud in 2008. Also knowing Biden's age perhaps makes the vice presidency that much more valuable. I really don't see many of them trashing Joe.

Biden's got a lot of bad quotes and gaffes in his past and his age is a huge liability for him running to be president (ditto for Sanders for that matter), any successful candidate would just have to reframe the issue to getting rid of the literal fossils in the room and quote mining his long and (occasionally controversial) career.

As I said most of them won't. Eyes of the voters are on the big prize of defeating Trump. Only the other fossils will attempt to take Biden on. They do so at their peril.

68% of Dems said in a recent poll that defeating Trump is by far most important and would vote for the candidate most likely to beat him even though they disagreed with that candidate on most other issues. That's the game this time around.

[Libertas Omnium Maximus]

Biden's got a lot of bad quotes and gaffes in his past and his age is a huge liability for him running to be president (ditto for Sanders for that matter), any successful candidate would just have to reframe the issue to getting rid of the literal fossils in the room and quote mining his long and (occasionally controversial) career.

As I said most of them won't. Eyes of the voters are on the big prize of defeating Trump. Only the other fossils will attempt to take Biden on. They do so at their peril.

68% of Dems said in a recent poll that defeating Trump is by far most important and would vote for the candidate most likely to beat him even though they disagreed with that candidate on most other issues. That's the game this time around.

So this is how democracy dies...

[Sidesh0w B0b]

As I said most of them won't. Eyes of the voters are on the big prize of defeating Trump. Only the other fossils will attempt to take Biden on. They do so at their peril.

68% of Dems said in a recent poll that defeating Trump is by far most important and would vote for the candidate most likely to beat him even though they disagreed with that candidate on most other issues. That's the game this time around.

So this is how democracy dies...

Nope. Democracy is not dying.

Ideas can't be killed. Didn't you know that? They can go on hiatus for awhile though. See the CSA.

[Libertas Omnium Maximus]

So this is how democracy dies...

Nope. Democracy is not dying.

Ideas can't be killed. Didn't you know that? They can go on hiatus for awhile though. See the CSA.

I was making a reference to... never mind.

[Sidesh0w B0b]

Nope. Democracy is not dying.

Ideas can't be killed. Didn't you know that? They can go on hiatus for awhile though. See the CSA.

I was making a reference to... never mind.

I know what that was ...stuff one hears from the cheap seats.

[Valrifell]

The cartels?

They're loaded, you understand, and the US is a huge narcotic market. Staying out of it is simply not an option. As I said, if the border has to be patrolled regardless, what purpose does the wall serve?

The cartels are loaded and thus will find a way around, that is what patrol is for. The wall should dissuade you average drug dealer from trying to come over.

Why a wall when you still need guards? I don't know? Probably the same reason you lock your door even though police exist.

The average drug dealer isn't the one running drugs, though, they have specialized drug runners and mules to do that for them. It's not a hard concept really, and as I said a lot of the drugs still come in through ports of entry.

Not every place locks their doors, you understand, it's all dependent on how "bad" the neighborhood is. Extending this metaphor, the US and her neighbors are in a comparatively nice neighborhood all things considered.

[Gormwood]

If Trump doesn't want derisive media coverage 24/7, then maybe he shouldn't inspire derision? Maybe he shouldn't make shit, make shit up, fling shit? You know, be a normal president with normal responsibilities, be an advocate for democracy, be not a fucking doubleplus crook?

He seems to be doing everything in his power to keep his campaign promises. Also, how is he not advocating democracy?

So how is Mexico paying for Da Wahl?

[Valrifell]

Biden's got a lot of bad quotes and gaffes in his past and his age is a huge liability for him running to be president (ditto for Sanders for that matter), any successful candidate would just have to reframe the issue to getting rid of the literal fossils in the room and quote mining his long and (occasionally controversial) career.

As I said most of them won't. Eyes of the voters are on the big prize of defeating Trump. Only the other fossils will attempt to take Biden on. They do so at their peril.

68% of Dems said in a recent poll that defeating Trump is by far most important and would vote for the candidate most likely to beat him even though they disagreed with that candidate on most other issues. That's the game this time around.

That's why you have to shift the narrative. Currently, the electorate sees Biden as safe and electable, but start shouting "Biden can't win! Look at all these gaffes! Look at how old he is!" people will start to doubt. Right now nobody is really willing to take him head-on like that yet, maybe hoping he'll sink his own campaign or maybe thinking he'll win and nobody wants to burn bridges.

[Gormwood]

He seems to be doing everything in his power to keep his campaign promises. Also, how is he not advocating democracy?

... Orban is in Washington. Right now.

Donny is trying to fill a Little Black Book of Strongmen.

On a sidenote, for once I would like to see a strongman who actually looks like a bodybuiler instead of a middle-aged or old slob.

[Sidesh0w B0b]

As I said most of them won't. Eyes of the voters are on the big prize of defeating Trump. Only the other fossils will attempt to take Biden on. They do so at their peril.

68% of Dems said in a recent poll that defeating Trump is by far most important and would vote for the candidate most likely to beat him even though they disagreed with that candidate on most other issues. That's the game this time around.

That's why you have to shift the narrative. Currently, the electorate sees Biden as safe and electable, but start shouting "Biden can't win! Look at all these gaffes! Look at how old he is!" people will start to doubt. Right now nobody is really willing to take him head-on like that yet, maybe hoping he'll sink his own campaign or maybe thinking he'll win and nobody wants to burn bridges.

Mostly think he'll win. The guy is a stalwart of the Dem party. Did a great job as Veep. Known as the most honest senator. Dude is already vetted. Got major name recognition. Hard to win from the second smallest state in the union back in his first run. His second so called "failed campaign" never really got off the ground much for the same reason as the first but the second won netted him the Vice Presidency.

The other candidates are far more likely to have skeletons in their closet which Trump would exploit after they are nominated. That's the danger of running the new young face. McCain isn't the GOP nominee in 2020, quite the opposite.
It's a former Vice president versus an incumbent president. That narrows the benefit of incumbency some, The 2020 General Election, honest Joe Biden v. Donald Trump would present a stark contrast in direction, morality and ethics. I'd take Biden 10 out of 10 times.

[Libertas Omnium Maximus]

The cartels are loaded and thus will find a way around, that is what patrol is for. The wall should dissuade you average drug dealer from trying to come over.

Why a wall when you still need guards? I don't know? Probably the same reason you lock your door even though police exist.

The average drug dealer isn't the one running drugs, though, they have specialized drug runners and mules to do that for them. It's not a hard concept really, and as I said a lot of the drugs still come in through ports of entry.

Not every place locks their doors, you understand, it's all dependent on how "bad" the neighborhood is. Extending this metaphor, the US and her neighbors are in a comparatively nice neighborhood all things considered.

Yes. I am glad drugs are caught at ports of entry. That says nothing whatsoever about the effectiveness of a wall. Also, as has just been made clear, we clearly don't live in a good "neighborhood" since like 50% of the nations below us are some of the most impoverished in the world.