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2019-2020 US Election Megathread II: The f*ck is Iowa?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Best Poll

Spartacus Booker
1
10%
JFBeto
1
10%
Bidenus Cicero
0
No votes
Teddy War Bear
3
30%
Saint John Delaney
0
No votes
Steve
1
10%
Paul/Tim Ryan
0
No votes
Justice Smash
2
20%
Amy the Hedgehog
1
10%
MATH
1
10%
 
Total votes : 10

User avatar
San Lumen
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27845
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby San Lumen » Sun May 19, 2019 7:48 pm

Telconi wrote:
San Lumen wrote:You dont like when the other side wins. its that simple. You don;t believe in free and fair elections or the peaceful transfer of power.


You're right, is there a point here?

Yes that you only like elections when your candidates win and if not it should be rigged so they do and if the other side manages to win the people should be punished.

You want nothing more than a de facto dictatorship. with statements like that its quite scary and you ought to move to Budapest or Moscow. You'd be happy there but I am done having this debate with you.

You've made you beliefs clear.
Last edited by San Lumen on Sun May 19, 2019 7:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Thuzbekistan
Minister
 
Posts: 2133
Founded: Dec 29, 2017
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Thuzbekistan » Sun May 19, 2019 7:51 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Telconi wrote:
You're right, is there a point here?

Yes that you only like elections when your candidates win and if not it should be rigged so they do and if the other side manages to win the people should be punished.

You want nothing more than a de facto dictatorship. with statements like that its quite scary and you ought to move to Budapest or Moscow. You'd be happy there but I am done having this debate with you.

You've made you beliefs clear.

Thank God. All you ever seem to talk about are free and fair elections. I get it's important, but you assume people allude to it and all when they arnt. Perhaps we wont have to hear about it now
Proud Member of The Western Isles, the Best RP region on NS.
An RP I'm Proud of: Orsandian Civil War
An INTJ, -A/-T

Economic Left/Right: -5.0
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.72

User avatar
Telconi
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 23974
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Sun May 19, 2019 7:54 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Telconi wrote:
You're right, is there a point here?

Yes that you only like elections when your candidates win and if not it should be rigged so they do and if the other side manages to win the people should be punished.

You want nothing more than a de facto dictatorship. with statements like that its quite scary and you ought to move to Budapest or Moscow. You'd be happy there but I am done having this debate with you.

You've made you beliefs clear.


Quite contrarily, I don't "like" elections at all, they're a tool, liking an election is akin to liking a power saw or a bench vise.

Or, alternatively. I can stay and work to make my home country a better place for my child. But tell me more about how people should move of they dislike the way their government treats them, because this very same idea is one you've attacked yourself.

Yes, I have, as have you, so feel free to get lost.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
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-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
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ANTI:
-Racism
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-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
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-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Tarsonis
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8038
Founded: Sep 20, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Tarsonis » Sun May 19, 2019 9:51 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Tarsonis wrote:
As of this post, nothing on google suggests a ruling has been made. So unless the media gives zero fucks, we haven’t got an official ruling yet.

It was denying a stay. that nots something the media reports on often.
Telconi wrote:
Well shit...


Yeah having election districts drawn fairly is a terrible thing right? Getting the popular vote but not the majority is totally fair.


Except in this case that would be a huge stay, with huge ramifications for future elections. Should be all over the blogosphere and media yet nary a peep is said about it.
Proud NS Keyboard Warrior since 2005.
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Galatians 6:7 " Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
1 Corinthians 5:12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
Debating Christian Theology with Non-Christians pretty much anybody be like

User avatar
Tarsonis
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8038
Founded: Sep 20, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Tarsonis » Sun May 19, 2019 9:54 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Telconi wrote:
You're right, is there a point here?

Yes that you only like elections when your candidates win and if not it should be rigged so they do and if the other side manages to win the people should be punished.

You want nothing more than a de facto dictatorship. with statements like that its quite scary and you ought to move to Budapest or Moscow. You'd be happy there but I am done having this debate with you.

You've made you beliefs clear.


To be honest I can’t say your beliefs are any better. You want tyranny of the majority where there are no checks and balances to protect minority interests. It’s still tyranny, but now instead of one tyrant you’ve got 160 million.
Proud NS Keyboard Warrior since 2005.
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Galatians 6:7 " Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
1 Corinthians 5:12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
Debating Christian Theology with Non-Christians pretty much anybody be like

User avatar
Tarsonis
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8038
Founded: Sep 20, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Tarsonis » Mon May 20, 2019 4:51 am

So Australia's conservative PM won re-election despite all the polls pointing to the contrary. The Democrats should take note.
Proud NS Keyboard Warrior since 2005.
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Galatians 6:7 " Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
1 Corinthians 5:12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
Debating Christian Theology with Non-Christians pretty much anybody be like

User avatar
San Lumen
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27845
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby San Lumen » Mon May 20, 2019 5:26 am

Tarsonis wrote:
San Lumen wrote:Yes that you only like elections when your candidates win and if not it should be rigged so they do and if the other side manages to win the people should be punished.

You want nothing more than a de facto dictatorship. with statements like that its quite scary and you ought to move to Budapest or Moscow. You'd be happy there but I am done having this debate with you.

You've made you beliefs clear.


To be honest I can’t say your beliefs are any better. You want tyranny of the majority where there are no checks and balances to protect minority interests. It’s still tyranny, but now instead of one tyrant you’ve got 160 million.

I never said that. If the majority of the population of Washington state which is in the Puget sound area chooses Democrats that’s who should win
Last edited by San Lumen on Mon May 20, 2019 5:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Tarsonis
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8038
Founded: Sep 20, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Tarsonis » Mon May 20, 2019 5:28 am

San Lumen wrote:
Tarsonis wrote:
To be honest I can’t say your beliefs are any better. You want tyranny of the majority where there are no checks and balances to protect minority interests. It’s still tyranny, but now instead of one tyrant you’ve got 160 million.

I never said that. If the majority of the population of Washington state which is in the Puget sound area chooses Democrats that’s who should win


As I said, absolute majority rule.
Proud NS Keyboard Warrior since 2005.
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Galatians 6:7 " Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
1 Corinthians 5:12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
Debating Christian Theology with Non-Christians pretty much anybody be like

User avatar
Evil Dictators Happyland
Minister
 
Posts: 2655
Founded: Aug 03, 2016
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Evil Dictators Happyland » Mon May 20, 2019 5:29 am

San Lumen wrote:
Tarsonis wrote:
To be honest I can’t say your beliefs are any better. You want tyranny of the majority where there are no checks and balances to protect minority interests. It’s still tyranny, but now instead of one tyrant you’ve got 160 million.

I never said that. If the majority of the population of Washington state which is in the Puget sound area chooses Democrats that’s who should win

Something something city slickers don't know anything about farming so they shouldn't be allowed to vote
IC name is "The United Socialist States of America".
This nation does not represent my actual political beliefs.
NS stats are mostly canon, but serve more as a guideline than anything else.
Collectivism, capitalism, authority, and individuality all do not function in a vacuum, or at least not on a large enough scale to be worth basing an ideology around, and they must all be tempered by the opposing force. (Not a centrist, by the way, but they do raise good points, and they're probably the most sane and level headed ideology - and yes, mine is no exception.)
Shrek dies in Endgame.
My factbooks are quite messy, I'll update them sometime in the distant future.
Political compass: -5.5 economic, -3.54 social (social democrat), will retake every few months.

User avatar
San Lumen
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27845
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby San Lumen » Mon May 20, 2019 5:30 am

Tarsonis wrote:
San Lumen wrote:I never said that. If the majority of the population of Washington state which is in the Puget sound area chooses Democrats that’s who should win


As I said, absolute majority rule.

What would you have then whoever wins the most counties gets elected? It would be nearly impossible for a Democrat to win even though they got the most votes

User avatar
Evil Dictators Happyland
Minister
 
Posts: 2655
Founded: Aug 03, 2016
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Evil Dictators Happyland » Mon May 20, 2019 5:32 am

San Lumen wrote:
Tarsonis wrote:
As I said, absolute majority rule.

What would you have then whoever wins the most counties gets elected? It would be nearly impossible for a Democrat to win even though they got the most votes

>implying that he has a problem with tyranny as long as it isn't of the majority
IC name is "The United Socialist States of America".
This nation does not represent my actual political beliefs.
NS stats are mostly canon, but serve more as a guideline than anything else.
Collectivism, capitalism, authority, and individuality all do not function in a vacuum, or at least not on a large enough scale to be worth basing an ideology around, and they must all be tempered by the opposing force. (Not a centrist, by the way, but they do raise good points, and they're probably the most sane and level headed ideology - and yes, mine is no exception.)
Shrek dies in Endgame.
My factbooks are quite messy, I'll update them sometime in the distant future.
Political compass: -5.5 economic, -3.54 social (social democrat), will retake every few months.

User avatar
Tarsonis
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8038
Founded: Sep 20, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Tarsonis » Mon May 20, 2019 5:35 am

San Lumen wrote:
Tarsonis wrote:
As I said, absolute majority rule.

What would you have then whoever wins the most counties gets elected? It would be nearly impossible for a Democrat to win even though they got the most votes


More like an electoral system, each county weighted to a certain degree. Won't guarantee any victory to either side, but will provide a check against Seattle ruling over the rest of the state like Winterfell. I support majority rule to agree so long as there are protections in place to protect the minority from tyranny of the majority and that includes sometimes the less popular candidate wins.
Proud NS Keyboard Warrior since 2005.
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Galatians 6:7 " Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
1 Corinthians 5:12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
Debating Christian Theology with Non-Christians pretty much anybody be like

User avatar
Tarsonis
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8038
Founded: Sep 20, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Tarsonis » Mon May 20, 2019 5:35 am

Evil Dictators Happyland wrote:
San Lumen wrote:What would you have then whoever wins the most counties gets elected? It would be nearly impossible for a Democrat to win even though they got the most votes

>implying that he has a problem with tyranny as long as it isn't of the majority


We're gonna start this again are we?
Proud NS Keyboard Warrior since 2005.
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Galatians 6:7 " Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
1 Corinthians 5:12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
Debating Christian Theology with Non-Christians pretty much anybody be like

User avatar
San Lumen
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27845
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby San Lumen » Mon May 20, 2019 5:38 am

Tarsonis wrote:
San Lumen wrote:What would you have then whoever wins the most counties gets elected? It would be nearly impossible for a Democrat to win even though they got the most votes


More like an electoral system, each county weighted to a certain degree. Won't guarantee any victory to either side, but will provide a check against Seattle ruling over the rest of the state like Winterfell. I support majority rule to agree so long as there are protections in place to protect the minority from tyranny of the majority and that includes sometimes the less popular candidate wins.

Why should we have that? Why shouldn’t the person with the most votes win statewide office?

Cindy Axne of Iowa is a congresswoman because she carried Polk County which is Des Moines by a wide margin. She lost every other county in the district. Is that unfair to you too?

User avatar
Evil Dictators Happyland
Minister
 
Posts: 2655
Founded: Aug 03, 2016
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Evil Dictators Happyland » Mon May 20, 2019 5:39 am

Tarsonis wrote:
Evil Dictators Happyland wrote:>implying that he has a problem with tyranny as long as it isn't of the majority


We're gonna start this again are we?

Shall we start with you explaining how this ideal system of yours would actually work? Would each county get a flat number of votes, or would it be weighted by population (just less so than it is now), or would it involve breaking up urban counties and/or merging rural ones to make the situation somewhat less unequal than it could be?
IC name is "The United Socialist States of America".
This nation does not represent my actual political beliefs.
NS stats are mostly canon, but serve more as a guideline than anything else.
Collectivism, capitalism, authority, and individuality all do not function in a vacuum, or at least not on a large enough scale to be worth basing an ideology around, and they must all be tempered by the opposing force. (Not a centrist, by the way, but they do raise good points, and they're probably the most sane and level headed ideology - and yes, mine is no exception.)
Shrek dies in Endgame.
My factbooks are quite messy, I'll update them sometime in the distant future.
Political compass: -5.5 economic, -3.54 social (social democrat), will retake every few months.

User avatar
Tarsonis
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8038
Founded: Sep 20, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Tarsonis » Mon May 20, 2019 5:40 am

Evil Dictators Happyland wrote:
San Lumen wrote:I never said that. If the majority of the population of Washington state which is in the Puget sound area chooses Democrats that’s who should win

Something something city slickers don't know anything about farming so they shouldn't be allowed to vote


You mock, but California has this issue right now, city politicians passing laws that are bad for farmers.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasdelb ... 8f39af7465
Proud NS Keyboard Warrior since 2005.
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Galatians 6:7 " Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
1 Corinthians 5:12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
Debating Christian Theology with Non-Christians pretty much anybody be like

User avatar
Evil Dictators Happyland
Minister
 
Posts: 2655
Founded: Aug 03, 2016
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Evil Dictators Happyland » Mon May 20, 2019 5:40 am

Tarsonis wrote:
Evil Dictators Happyland wrote:Something something city slickers don't know anything about farming so they shouldn't be allowed to vote


You mock, but California has this issue right now, city politicians passing laws that are bad for farmers.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasdelb ... 8f39af7465

And you expect that farmers will never pass laws that are bad for cities?
EDIT: To be clear, I'm not saying that urbanites know their way around farming. I'm just saying that A) they'll be paying for basically everything and B) farmers probably don't know how to run a city any more than urbanites know how to run a farm.
Last edited by Evil Dictators Happyland on Mon May 20, 2019 5:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
IC name is "The United Socialist States of America".
This nation does not represent my actual political beliefs.
NS stats are mostly canon, but serve more as a guideline than anything else.
Collectivism, capitalism, authority, and individuality all do not function in a vacuum, or at least not on a large enough scale to be worth basing an ideology around, and they must all be tempered by the opposing force. (Not a centrist, by the way, but they do raise good points, and they're probably the most sane and level headed ideology - and yes, mine is no exception.)
Shrek dies in Endgame.
My factbooks are quite messy, I'll update them sometime in the distant future.
Political compass: -5.5 economic, -3.54 social (social democrat), will retake every few months.

User avatar
Tarsonis
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8038
Founded: Sep 20, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Tarsonis » Mon May 20, 2019 5:43 am

Evil Dictators Happyland wrote:
Tarsonis wrote:
We're gonna start this again are we?

Shall we start with you explaining how this ideal system of yours would actually work? Would each county get a flat number of votes, or would it be weighted by population (just less so than it is now), or would it involve breaking up urban counties and/or merging rural ones to make the situation somewhat less unequal than it could be?


I don't have specifics in mind, as I said the system would have to be tailored to each state, censuses taken districts redrawn. Something like the the EC where each county has a fixed amount of electoral votes rated for population would work in theory, but exactly how the rating system would work would be unique to each state.
Proud NS Keyboard Warrior since 2005.
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Galatians 6:7 " Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
1 Corinthians 5:12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
Debating Christian Theology with Non-Christians pretty much anybody be like

User avatar
San Lumen
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27845
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby San Lumen » Mon May 20, 2019 5:44 am

Tarsonis wrote:
Evil Dictators Happyland wrote:Shall we start with you explaining how this ideal system of yours would actually work? Would each county get a flat number of votes, or would it be weighted by population (just less so than it is now), or would it involve breaking up urban counties and/or merging rural ones to make the situation somewhat less unequal than it could be?


I don't have specifics in mind, as I said the system would have to be tailored to each state, censuses taken districts redrawn. Something like the the EC where each county has a fixed amount of electoral votes rated for population would work in theory, but exactly how the rating system would work would be unique to each state.

Who would that be fair? In a state like Washington or Nevada under such a system s Republican would be almost guaranteed of winning

User avatar
Tarsonis
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8038
Founded: Sep 20, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Tarsonis » Mon May 20, 2019 5:44 am

Evil Dictators Happyland wrote:
Tarsonis wrote:
You mock, but California has this issue right now, city politicians passing laws that are bad for farmers.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasdelb ... 8f39af7465

And you expect that farmers will never pass laws that are bad for cities?
EDIT: To be clear, I'm not saying that urbanites know their way around farming. I'm just saying that A) they'll be paying for basically everything and B) farmers probably don't know how to run a city any more than urbanites know how to run a farm.


Sure, I agree. I don't know why you can't get over this false dichotomy, but its not about one side dictating to the other, it's about a system that requires these groups of people to work together.
Proud NS Keyboard Warrior since 2005.
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Galatians 6:7 " Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
1 Corinthians 5:12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
Debating Christian Theology with Non-Christians pretty much anybody be like

User avatar
Evil Dictators Happyland
Minister
 
Posts: 2655
Founded: Aug 03, 2016
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Evil Dictators Happyland » Mon May 20, 2019 5:45 am

Tarsonis wrote:
Evil Dictators Happyland wrote:Shall we start with you explaining how this ideal system of yours would actually work? Would each county get a flat number of votes, or would it be weighted by population (just less so than it is now), or would it involve breaking up urban counties and/or merging rural ones to make the situation somewhat less unequal than it could be?


I don't have specifics in mind, as I said the system would have to be tailored to each state, censuses taken districts redrawn. Something like the the EC where each county has a fixed amount of electoral votes rated for population would work in theory, but exactly how the rating system would work would be unique to each state.

How am I supposed to debate the merits of your ideal system if you don't have a system to debate?
Wait, no, I do have one question you can probably answer. How do you plan on setting this up so that state governments can't just keep themselves in power indefinitely? They are, after all, the ones who will end up deciding how the elections are run.
IC name is "The United Socialist States of America".
This nation does not represent my actual political beliefs.
NS stats are mostly canon, but serve more as a guideline than anything else.
Collectivism, capitalism, authority, and individuality all do not function in a vacuum, or at least not on a large enough scale to be worth basing an ideology around, and they must all be tempered by the opposing force. (Not a centrist, by the way, but they do raise good points, and they're probably the most sane and level headed ideology - and yes, mine is no exception.)
Shrek dies in Endgame.
My factbooks are quite messy, I'll update them sometime in the distant future.
Political compass: -5.5 economic, -3.54 social (social democrat), will retake every few months.

User avatar
Evil Dictators Happyland
Minister
 
Posts: 2655
Founded: Aug 03, 2016
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Evil Dictators Happyland » Mon May 20, 2019 5:46 am

Tarsonis wrote:
Evil Dictators Happyland wrote:And you expect that farmers will never pass laws that are bad for cities?
EDIT: To be clear, I'm not saying that urbanites know their way around farming. I'm just saying that A) they'll be paying for basically everything and B) farmers probably don't know how to run a city any more than urbanites know how to run a farm.


Sure, I agree. I don't know why you can't get over this false dichotomy, but its not about one side dictating to the other, it's about a system that requires these groups of people to work together.

Why should the people who pay most of the taxes not get most of the say in how those taxes are used?
IC name is "The United Socialist States of America".
This nation does not represent my actual political beliefs.
NS stats are mostly canon, but serve more as a guideline than anything else.
Collectivism, capitalism, authority, and individuality all do not function in a vacuum, or at least not on a large enough scale to be worth basing an ideology around, and they must all be tempered by the opposing force. (Not a centrist, by the way, but they do raise good points, and they're probably the most sane and level headed ideology - and yes, mine is no exception.)
Shrek dies in Endgame.
My factbooks are quite messy, I'll update them sometime in the distant future.
Political compass: -5.5 economic, -3.54 social (social democrat), will retake every few months.

User avatar
Tarsonis
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8038
Founded: Sep 20, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Tarsonis » Mon May 20, 2019 5:47 am

San Lumen wrote:
Tarsonis wrote:
I don't have specifics in mind, as I said the system would have to be tailored to each state, censuses taken districts redrawn. Something like the the EC where each county has a fixed amount of electoral votes rated for population would work in theory, but exactly how the rating system would work would be unique to each state.

Who would that be fair? In a state like Washington or Nevada under such a system s Republican would be almost guaranteed of winning


It's fair because it balances needs and requires people to work together. As it stands, sides don't need to work together, they can get a simple majority and rule unchecked power. A balancing mechanic would require them to coalition build.

As it further stands I'm also in favor of the status quo and not changing anything.
Proud NS Keyboard Warrior since 2005.
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Galatians 6:7 " Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
1 Corinthians 5:12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
Debating Christian Theology with Non-Christians pretty much anybody be like

User avatar
Tarsonis
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8038
Founded: Sep 20, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Tarsonis » Mon May 20, 2019 5:47 am

Evil Dictators Happyland wrote:
Tarsonis wrote:
Sure, I agree. I don't know why you can't get over this false dichotomy, but its not about one side dictating to the other, it's about a system that requires these groups of people to work together.

Why should the people who pay most of the taxes not get most of the say in how those taxes are used?



That's just a nice way of saying "Why shouldn't the city folk get to dictate to the farmers?"
Proud NS Keyboard Warrior since 2005.
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Galatians 6:7 " Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
1 Corinthians 5:12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
Debating Christian Theology with Non-Christians pretty much anybody be like

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Tarsonis
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8038
Founded: Sep 20, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Tarsonis » Mon May 20, 2019 5:48 am

Evil Dictators Happyland wrote:
Tarsonis wrote:
I don't have specifics in mind, as I said the system would have to be tailored to each state, censuses taken districts redrawn. Something like the the EC where each county has a fixed amount of electoral votes rated for population would work in theory, but exactly how the rating system would work would be unique to each state.

How am I supposed to debate the merits of your ideal system if you don't have a system to debate?
Wait, no, I do have one question you can probably answer. How do you plan on setting this up so that state governments can't just keep themselves in power indefinitely? They are, after all, the ones who will end up deciding how the elections are run.


I don't. I'm perfectly fine with the status quo as is. San Lumen keeps trying to make me advocate for a state system and I keep falling into the trap.
Proud NS Keyboard Warrior since 2005.
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Galatians 6:7 " Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
1 Corinthians 5:12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
Debating Christian Theology with Non-Christians pretty much anybody be like

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