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2019-2020 US Election Megathread II: The f*ck is Iowa?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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1st Debate, 1st night: Which underdog will win the debate?

Beto
2
9%
Booker
0
No votes
Klobuchar
1
4%
Castro
0
No votes
Gabbard
5
22%
Tim Ryan
0
No votes
John Delaney
1
4%
Top Tier Liz Warren
11
48%
Jay Inslee
1
4%
Eternal Lotharia when he crashes the debate stage(Blasio? Do you mean yeah no one?)
2
9%
 
Total votes : 23

User avatar
The Xenopolis Confederation
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5790
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Sun May 19, 2019 2:42 am

Mystic Warriors wrote:
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:Hot take: Sanders is better than Biden in policy, so we should nominate Sanders, and not care at all about which one is more likely to beat Trump.



The whole point is too win, Sanders shouldn't get the nod if he can't do what he is being nominated to do

The point is to have good policies. If you put winning before good policies you do not deserve the former and will lose both.
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Thuzbekistan
Minister
 
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Founded: Dec 29, 2017
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Postby Thuzbekistan » Sun May 19, 2019 4:26 am

The Andromeda Archipelago wrote:
Gormwood wrote:Literally Jesus Christ himself could run for the Democratic nomination and people will still say he'd lose to Trump.


Where is Jesus' birth certificate?

HE WAS AN ARAB! lol
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Thuzbekistan
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Postby Thuzbekistan » Sun May 19, 2019 4:26 am

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
Mystic Warriors wrote:

The whole point is too win, Sanders shouldn't get the nod if he can't do what he is being nominated to do

The point is to have good policies. If you put winning before good policies you do not deserve the former and will lose both.

Good play on Franklin there, but yeah. Exactly.
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Ngelmish
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Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Ngelmish » Sun May 19, 2019 6:59 am

Page wrote:
Mystic Warriors wrote:

Not really. Biden is likeable and Hillary was not.


Biden doesn't stand for anything. He's going to run on 'everything was good before Trump and we'll go back to those days', but it wasn't good for all the people financially crushed by student loan debt, and it wasn't good for the people who relied on a GoFundMe to be able to afford medicine they would literally die without, and it wasn't good for the people in Flint who watched Obama do nothing about their water crisis and lie to them, and it wasn't good for the Native Americans who didn't want their water poisoned by an illegal pipeline through their land, and it wasn't good for the homeless, and it wasn't good for the long term unemployed, and it wasn't good for the people who had to work 70 or 80 hours a week just to keep their lights on until they finally snapped from all the stress but couldn't afford treatment because we still don't have single payer.

Well off middle class liberals, the ones who have never experienced real poverty, they love Biden. Everyone who can focus on Russiagate because they have health care and a living wage, they will vote for Biden, but how is Biden going to win over the disenfranchised and disempowered when he offers them nothing?


Although I have no intention of supporting Biden in a non-binary context, it does not follow from the flaws of previous Democratic administrations that we should therefore nominate a dishonest legislative hack -- which I know is the takeway you're angling for in this post.

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Zurkerx
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Founded: Jan 20, 2011
Anarchy

Postby Zurkerx » Sun May 19, 2019 8:14 am

Possible and potential Libertarian Candidate and Republican Representative Justin Amash says Trump committed "impeachable conduct".
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Thuzbekistan
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Postby Thuzbekistan » Sun May 19, 2019 8:15 am

Page wrote:
Mystic Warriors wrote:

Not really. Biden is likeable and Hillary was not.


Biden doesn't stand for anything. He's going to run on 'everything was good before Trump and we'll go back to those days', but it wasn't good for all the people financially crushed by student loan debt, and it wasn't good for the people who relied on a GoFundMe to be able to afford medicine they would literally die without, and it wasn't good for the people in Flint who watched Obama do nothing about their water crisis and lie to them, and it wasn't good for the Native Americans who didn't want their water poisoned by an illegal pipeline through their land, and it wasn't good for the homeless, and it wasn't good for the long term unemployed, and it wasn't good for the people who had to work 70 or 80 hours a week just to keep their lights on until they finally snapped from all the stress but couldn't afford treatment because we still don't have single payer.

Well off middle class liberals, the ones who have never experienced real poverty, they love Biden. Everyone who can focus on Russiagate because they have health care and a living wage, they will vote for Biden, but how is Biden going to win over the disenfranchised and disempowered when he offers them nothing?

Hillary didn't offer anything either. We need a good Democrat who is willing to make necessary reforms to actually help people, stop starting wars like literally every president since roosevelt has.
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LiberNovusAmericae
Minister
 
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Founded: Mar 10, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Sun May 19, 2019 8:17 am

Zurkerx wrote:Possible and potential Libertarian Candidate and Republican Representative Justin Amash says Trump committed "impeachable conduct".

And because he went against Trump, the GOP will make sure he has no shot at winning.
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Zurkerx
Senator
 
Posts: 3543
Founded: Jan 20, 2011
Anarchy

Postby Zurkerx » Sun May 19, 2019 8:42 am

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
Zurkerx wrote:Possible and potential Libertarian Candidate and Republican Representative Justin Amash says Trump committed "impeachable conduct".

And because he went against Trump, the GOP will make sure he has no shot at winning.


He's been a Trump critic since day 1. If he runs, he might hurt Trump a little but not significantly. Then again, Amash is the most qualified to be the Libertarian Party's nominee so...

But even if he doesn't run, I suspect he'll win his seat given this is Michigan and he's well-liked I believe.
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Ngelmish
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Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Ngelmish » Sun May 19, 2019 9:01 am

Thuzbekistan wrote:
Page wrote:
Biden doesn't stand for anything. He's going to run on 'everything was good before Trump and we'll go back to those days', but it wasn't good for all the people financially crushed by student loan debt, and it wasn't good for the people who relied on a GoFundMe to be able to afford medicine they would literally die without, and it wasn't good for the people in Flint who watched Obama do nothing about their water crisis and lie to them, and it wasn't good for the Native Americans who didn't want their water poisoned by an illegal pipeline through their land, and it wasn't good for the homeless, and it wasn't good for the long term unemployed, and it wasn't good for the people who had to work 70 or 80 hours a week just to keep their lights on until they finally snapped from all the stress but couldn't afford treatment because we still don't have single payer.

Well off middle class liberals, the ones who have never experienced real poverty, they love Biden. Everyone who can focus on Russiagate because they have health care and a living wage, they will vote for Biden, but how is Biden going to win over the disenfranchised and disempowered when he offers them nothing?

Hillary didn't offer anything either. We need a good Democrat who is willing to make necessary reforms to actually help people, stop starting wars like literally every president since roosevelt has.


She offered reams of policy . Whether or not you approved of any of those policies doesn't alter the fact that she offered a lot more than nothing. This meme that she didn't needs to die.

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Thuzbekistan
Minister
 
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Founded: Dec 29, 2017
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Postby Thuzbekistan » Sun May 19, 2019 9:19 am

Ngelmish wrote:
Thuzbekistan wrote:Hillary didn't offer anything either. We need a good Democrat who is willing to make necessary reforms to actually help people, stop starting wars like literally every president since roosevelt has.


She offered reams of policy . Whether or not you approved of any of those policies doesn't alter the fact that she offered a lot more than nothing. This meme that she didn't needs to die.

What she offered was to be Obama 2.0 with nothing new or anything that actually fixed a problem. She was wishy-washy on all her views and her doggedly moderate stances promised only a warm body in the office instead of a woman leading the nation. On top of all that, she was surrounded by so much corruption and elitism that she acted and sounded more like a robot when talking to the masses. She was not a good candidate, not a good person, and not a good secretary of state. She was a damned good politician, though. Which is why she lost to the guy with a clear, albeit racist and inflammatory, message, energy, goals, and fiery personality. If they had stood on policy alone, she would have beaten him in a landslide. But because he was good at using division, simple catchphrases, and had a total lack of care about what he was saying so long as the crowd was chanting, she lost. And even now, I think she was the worse of the two for the job because Trump may be a corrupt, incompetent fool, but Hillary was a corrupt, competent, politician.
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Ngelmish
Minister
 
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Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Ngelmish » Sun May 19, 2019 9:31 am

Thuzbekistan wrote:
Ngelmish wrote:
She offered reams of policy . Whether or not you approved of any of those policies doesn't alter the fact that she offered a lot more than nothing. This meme that she didn't needs to die.

What she offered was to be Obama 2.0 with nothing new or anything that actually fixed a problem. She was wishy-washy on all her views and her doggedly moderate stances promised only a warm body in the office instead of a woman leading the nation. On top of all that, she was surrounded by so much corruption and elitism that she acted and sounded more like a robot when talking to the masses. She was not a good candidate, not a good person, and not a good secretary of state. She was a damned good politician, though. Which is why she lost to the guy with a clear, albeit racist and inflammatory, message, energy, goals, and fiery personality. If they had stood on policy alone, she would have beaten him in a landslide. But because he was good at using division, simple catchphrases, and had a total lack of care about what he was saying so long as the crowd was chanting, she lost. And even now, I think she was the worse of the two for the job because Trump may be a corrupt, incompetent fool, but Hillary was a corrupt, competent, politician.


Continuation of existing policy trends (and to be clear, she proposed specific policies that would have moved to the left of the Obama administration status quo on topics as immigration and, oh, say, green energy) is still not the same thing as offering 'nothing.' In certain cases, it is demonstrably "new" in the sense that it would mark a change from existing policy. Depending on what you define as a problem, her proposals may or may not indeed have fixed things. It's hyperbole to call all of her views "wishy-washy"; ironically, despite the contemporary narrative, Hillary was always perceived, and with some justification, to be more reflexively liberal than her husband was. That perceived inflexibility on her part is a significant part of what the GOP intelligentsia despised about her.

Irregardless of whether or not she was a good candidate, person, or secretary of state, I will grant you that this argument is an improvement. You're now making a political case against her -- which is clearly what the pithy, but incorrect, assertion that she "offered nothing" is actually shorthand for. But since she did in fact offer quite a lot of things, I'm afraid you have to argue against that to have a case.

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Sidesh0w B0b
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 158
Founded: Feb 22, 2019
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Sidesh0w B0b » Sun May 19, 2019 9:36 am

Gormwood wrote:
San Lumen wrote:It doesnt matter if he does. Many farmers will and those in his base will still cast a ballot for him next year.

Not easy deprogramming people trapped in a cult.

True.

This all reminds of the wets and the drys during the prohibition era. Trump's a dry. A scofflaw with a wink and a nod to all the lawless activities. He acts like a 1920s GOP politician in some respects. He sides with the racists, the anti-immigrant crowd, the anti-saloon league/WCTU types a.k.a. the Christian right rural folk. And there's the Smoot-Hawley mentality. Neither side back then would budge an inch. Thankfully the biggest difference is Trump's base is smaller than the drys and isn't growing.

I'd swear his current political stance was outright lifted entirely from his crook of a father Fred. Until he began the birther bit Donald really never stood for anything... except himself.

I suppose the only thing remaining for him to do in this playbook is attack Joe Biden for his Catholicism and to shout "Believe me, he's a tool of the Pope". Then give Joe the full Al Smith treatment but with modern slurs and his particular brand of goofy name calling. But thank god this ain't 1928. Nobody that's not already in his base but the woefully ignorant will respond to much of that dickfulness. He's already tapped that well pretty dry.

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San Lumen
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
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Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby San Lumen » Sun May 19, 2019 2:05 pm

https://twitter.com/mcpli/status/1130147714618908672

In a very interesting and unexpected ruling the Supreme Court has denied a stay on a lower court ruling that state legislative lines In Michigan were unconstitutionally gerrymandered. Democrats chances of taking one or both chambers of the state legislature just went up drastically

The court will rule later this year on congressional gerrymandering cases from North Carolina and Maryland.
Last edited by San Lumen on Sun May 19, 2019 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Thuzbekistan
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Postby Thuzbekistan » Sun May 19, 2019 4:17 pm

San Lumen wrote:https://twitter.com/mcpli/status/1130147714618908672

In a very interesting and unexpected ruling the Supreme Court has denied a stay on a lower court ruling that state legislative lines In Michigan were unconstitutionally gerrymandered. Democrats chances of taking one or both chambers of the state legislature just went up drastically

The court will rule later this year on congressional gerrymandering cases from North Carolina and Maryland.

Can we get a source other than the bluecheckmarked fella
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Telconi
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Sun May 19, 2019 4:54 pm

San Lumen wrote:https://twitter.com/mcpli/status/1130147714618908672

In a very interesting and unexpected ruling the Supreme Court has denied a stay on a lower court ruling that state legislative lines In Michigan were unconstitutionally gerrymandered. Democrats chances of taking one or both chambers of the state legislature just went up drastically

The court will rule later this year on congressional gerrymandering cases from North Carolina and Maryland.


Well shit...
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Tarsonis
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Tarsonis » Sun May 19, 2019 5:19 pm

Thuzbekistan wrote:
San Lumen wrote:https://twitter.com/mcpli/status/1130147714618908672

In a very interesting and unexpected ruling the Supreme Court has denied a stay on a lower court ruling that state legislative lines In Michigan were unconstitutionally gerrymandered. Democrats chances of taking one or both chambers of the state legislature just went up drastically

The court will rule later this year on congressional gerrymandering cases from North Carolina and Maryland.

Can we get a source other than the bluecheckmarked fella


As of this post, nothing on google suggests a ruling has been made. So unless the media gives zero fucks, we haven’t got an official ruling yet.
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San Lumen
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby San Lumen » Sun May 19, 2019 5:38 pm

Tarsonis wrote:
Thuzbekistan wrote:Can we get a source other than the bluecheckmarked fella


As of this post, nothing on google suggests a ruling has been made. So unless the media gives zero fucks, we haven’t got an official ruling yet.

It was denying a stay. that nots something the media reports on often.
Telconi wrote:
San Lumen wrote:https://twitter.com/mcpli/status/1130147714618908672

In a very interesting and unexpected ruling the Supreme Court has denied a stay on a lower court ruling that state legislative lines In Michigan were unconstitutionally gerrymandered. Democrats chances of taking one or both chambers of the state legislature just went up drastically

The court will rule later this year on congressional gerrymandering cases from North Carolina and Maryland.


Well shit...


Yeah having election districts drawn fairly is a terrible thing right? Getting the popular vote but not the majority is totally fair.

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Thuzbekistan
Minister
 
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Postby Thuzbekistan » Sun May 19, 2019 5:54 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Tarsonis wrote:
As of this post, nothing on google suggests a ruling has been made. So unless the media gives zero fucks, we haven’t got an official ruling yet.

It was denying a stay. that nots something the media reports on often.
Telconi wrote:
Well shit...


Yeah having election districts drawn fairly is a terrible thing right? Getting the popular vote but not the majority is totally fair.

Can we get a SOURCE besides the bluecheckmarked dude?
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Telconi
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Sun May 19, 2019 6:12 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Tarsonis wrote:
As of this post, nothing on google suggests a ruling has been made. So unless the media gives zero fucks, we haven’t got an official ruling yet.

It was denying a stay. that nots something the media reports on often.
Telconi wrote:
Well shit...


Yeah having election districts drawn fairly is a terrible thing right? Getting the popular vote but not the majority is totally fair.


Given the expected results, yes. Nobody said anything about fairness.
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Valrifell
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Postby Valrifell » Sun May 19, 2019 6:16 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Tarsonis wrote:
As of this post, nothing on google suggests a ruling has been made. So unless the media gives zero fucks, we haven’t got an official ruling yet.

It was denying a stay. that nots something the media reports on often.
Telconi wrote:
Well shit...


Yeah having election districts drawn fairly is a terrible thing right? Getting the popular vote but not the majority is totally fair.


Lumen you fool, you ought to know by now that Tel has no consistency beyond getting what he wants. Which is usually the one thing.
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Telconi
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Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Sun May 19, 2019 6:23 pm

Valrifell wrote:
San Lumen wrote:It was denying a stay. that nots something the media reports on often.

Yeah having election districts drawn fairly is a terrible thing right? Getting the popular vote but not the majority is totally fair.


Lumen you fool, you ought to know by now that Tel has no consistency beyond getting what he wants. Which is usually the one thing.


Consistent ideology isn't consistent?
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United States of Devonta
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Founded: Sep 20, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby United States of Devonta » Sun May 19, 2019 7:15 pm

Did anyone watch the Pete Buttigieg Fox Townhall?

I'm no blue-dog democrat, but I would happily cast my ballot for him after that. He brought down the house, even better then Bernie.
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Telconi
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Sun May 19, 2019 7:24 pm

United States of Devonta wrote:Did anyone watch the Pete Buttigieg Fox Townhall?

I'm no blue-dog democrat, but I would happily cast my ballot for him after that. He brought down the house, even better then Bernie.


Tbf, Buttigieg is hardly a blue dog. But no, I was meaning to buy forgot.
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PRO:
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ANTI:
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-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
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-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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San Lumen
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Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby San Lumen » Sun May 19, 2019 7:27 pm

Telconi wrote:
Valrifell wrote:
Lumen you fool, you ought to know by now that Tel has no consistency beyond getting what he wants. Which is usually the one thing.


Consistent ideology isn't consistent?

You dont like when the other side wins. its that simple. You don;t believe in free and fair elections or the peaceful transfer of power.

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Telconi
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 23663
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Sun May 19, 2019 7:41 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Consistent ideology isn't consistent?

You dont like when the other side wins. its that simple. You don;t believe in free and fair elections or the peaceful transfer of power.


You're right, is there a point here?
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PRO:
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ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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