Man falsely accused of sexual harassment and beaten to death

[Ostroeuropa]

Allegations proven false.

Why don't you explain by what mechanism you imagine the justice system to be omniscient at catching false allegations vass?

And how does that definition differentiate between a malicious false accusation and, say, an honest misidentification?

It doesn't, and nor does it particularly matter for the dynamic we're discussing whereby false accusations exceed 10% by some unknown quantity, and thus there is good reason to suspect an accusation might be false when one is made.

[Kowani]

I’m seeing between 2 and 10 percent, here buddy. Not exactly common.

Not what I said. That 9% on each side makes up the ones that can be proven either way. However, I can only work with the stats I have access to. Just because someone isn’t proven guilty doesn’t mean the accuser is guilty of false allegations. That’s not how it works.

You've now backpeddled from claiming only 2-10% of allegations are false, and switched to discussing something else,

Yes, 2-10% of allegations are probably false. I, and the legal system in general, can only work with the statistics we can see. With all crimes, there is no such

thing as a 100% accuracy rate.
trying to make my position out to be the one you were shilling for just moments ago (DARVOIng as usual).

I have no idea what DARVOing is, so…

It's not my fault you internalized feminist garbage and have been called out on it, don't project it back onto me.

Yes. That is clearly what I was doing.

I never claimed because someone isn't proven guilty that means the accuse is guilty of false allegations.

I didn’t actually say you did.

You however, implicitly claimed that just because the false accuser isn't proven guilty, means the person is guilty of rape. That's what you did by quoting that stat the way you did, and it's how feminists usually use that statistic.

You clearly know what I meant better than I did. Wait, no, that’s not what I meant at all. How other people use it is completely irrelevant to me.

[The South Falls]

Allegations proven false.

Why don't you explain by what mechanism you imagine the justice system to be omniscient at catching false allegations vass?

And how does that definition differentiate between a malicious false accusation and, say, an honest misidentification?

Take kavanuagh proceedings vs this. There was no record of anything close to sexual assault happening in this case.However, in the kavanuagh proceedings, there was sexual contact, though the jury is still out on whether there is assault.

[Ostroeuropa]

You've now backpeddled from claiming only 2-10% of allegations are false, and switched to discussing something else,

Yes, 2-10% of allegations are probably false. I, and the legal system in general, can only work with the statistics we can see. With all crimes, there is no such

thing as a 100% accuracy rate.
trying to make my position out to be the one you were shilling for just moments ago (DARVOIng as usual).

I have no idea what DARVOing is, so…

It's not my fault you internalized feminist garbage and have been called out on it, don't project it back onto me.

Yes. That is clearly what I was doing.

I never claimed because someone isn't proven guilty that means the accuse is guilty of false allegations.

I didn’t actually say you did.

You however, implicitly claimed that just because the false accuser isn't proven guilty, means the person is guilty of rape. That's what you did by quoting that stat the way you did, and it's how feminists usually use that statistic.

You clearly know what I meant better than I did. Wait, no, that’s not what I meant at all. How other people use it is completely irrelevant to me.

I know what you said, and here it is.

The systematic propaganda campaign about how false accusations are so rare as to basically not exist and you should never consider them valid to consider or bring up might have something to do with that.

I’m seeing between 2 and 10 percent, here buddy. Not exactly common.

This is really basic guys and a good example of deliberate duplicity and willfully ignoring the obvious.

Do you think only 9% of rape accusations are true and only about 9% are false?

Then how do you explain the other 82%?

You apparently explain it as liars getting away with it 82% of the time, but ALL of the liars getting away with it are rapists. No false accuser EVER gets away with it.

That's your position if you're quoting the stats the way you are doing.

Not what I said. That 9% on each side makes up the ones that can be proven either way. However, I can only work with the stats I have access to. Just because someone isn’t proven guilty doesn’t mean the accuser is guilty of false allegations. That’s not how it works.

Read this again.

I talk about false allegations and you swoop in and claim it's not common because only 2-10% of them are false. Then I point out that's only the ones proven false, and Now you're trying to twist out of it.

[Scomagia]

And how does that definition differentiate between a malicious false accusation and, say, an honest misidentification?

Take kavanuagh proceedings vs this. There was no record of anything close to sexual assault happening in this case.However, in the kavanuagh proceedings, there was sexual contact, though the jury is still out on whether there is assault.

I don't remember there being proven sexual contact in the Kavanaugh situation.

[Ostroeuropa]

Take kavanuagh proceedings vs this. There was no record of anything close to sexual assault happening in this case.However, in the kavanuagh proceedings, there was sexual contact, though the jury is still out on whether there is assault.

I don't remember there being proven sexual contact in the Kavanaugh situation.

There wasn't, to my knowledge. It also flies in the face of trends on college sexual assault, given that the overwhelming majority of rapists on campus are serial offenders.

[The South Falls]

Take kavanuagh proceedings vs this. There was no record of anything close to sexual assault happening in this case.However, in the kavanuagh proceedings, there was sexual contact, though the jury is still out on whether there is assault.

I don't remember there being proven sexual contact in the Kavanaugh situation.

It wasn't proven, but I highly suspect that the guy who admitted the devil's triangle was played was right.

[Scomagia]

I don't remember there being proven sexual contact in the Kavanaugh situation.

It wasn't proven, but I highly suspect that the guy who admitted the devil's triangle was played was right.

Just making sure my memory is still working well. Maybe you should have said, "there may have been sexual contact", considering it wasn't proven to any reasonable degree of certainty.

[Kowani]

Yes, 2-10% of allegations are probably false. I, and the legal system in general, can only work with the statistics we can see. With all crimes, there is no such I have no idea what DARVOing is, so…
Yes. That is clearly what I was doing.
I didn’t actually say you did.

You clearly know what I meant better than I did. Wait, no, that’s not what I meant at all. How other people use it is completely irrelevant to me.

I know what you said, and here it is.

I’m seeing between 2 and 10 percent, here buddy. Not exactly common.

Not what I said. That 9% on each side makes up the ones that can be proven either way. However, I can only work with the stats I have access to. Just because someone isn’t proven guilty doesn’t mean the accuser is guilty of false allegations. That’s not how it works.

Read this again.

I talk about false allegations and you swoop in and claim it's not common because only 2-10% of them are false. Then I point out that's only the ones proven false, and Now you're trying to twist out of it.

Yes, because from any reasonable standpoint you can only work with what you can actually prove. Now, you can definitely argue that the system is flawed and therefore there are more false allegations that go unpunished. However, you cannot make the jump to false allegations being common without actual proof.

[Ostroeuropa]

I know what you said, and here it is.





Read this again.

I talk about false allegations and you swoop in and claim it's not common because only 2-10% of them are false. Then I point out that's only the ones proven false, and Now you're trying to twist out of it.

Yes, because from any reasonable standpoint you can only work with what you can actually prove. Now, you can definitely argue that the system is flawed and therefore there are more false allegations that go unpunished. However, you cannot make the jump to false allegations being common without actual proof.

Again you are projecting here. I never made the claim they were common. I was disputing the affirmative claim that they are not common and that's why we don't need to take them seriously as a problem, something you then supported by throwing that stat out and saying they weren't common.

You're the one making unproven statements here, i'm disputing unproven things. "Working with what we have" doesn't mean making unproven statements like "They're not exactly common".

It means "We don't know how common they are."

[Liberal Thermidorian Reaction]

I'm sure a standard can be imposed that protects actual victims while punishing adequately the obviously false "victims."

I think so too but i'd rather not disincentivize anyone from reporting that crime.

As opposed to hurting innocent people accused of rape by being too lax on liars?

It is a bit of a conundrum but attempting to ruin someone's life is something you should be severely punished for, monetarily and with jail time. Could some victim be punished wrongly? Sure, but then that happens to innocent people accused of rape, too. I'm not seeing why one should take precedent over the other.

Rape is physical, a wrong false accusement most likely will just be thrown out when no evidence shows up for it.

I say most likely beacuse of things like this.

Thankfully things like this are rare beacuse most people are smart enough not to beat people to death over a accusation.

Reform is needed. The lack of adequate laws against frivolous reporting is why they do it.

[Ostroeuropa]

I think so too but i'd rather not disincentivize anyone from reporting that crime.



Rape is physical, a wrong false accusement most likely will just be thrown out when no evidence shows up for it.

I say most likely beacuse of things like this.

Thankfully things like this are rare beacuse most people are smart enough not to beat people to death over a accusation.

Reform is needed. The lack of adequate laws against frivolous reporting is why they do it.

Mate women can rape and beat men and not go to prison, there is next to no chance they'll go to prison for any meaningful length of time for lying about them until that is fixed. The lack of laws against frivolous reporting isn't the problem, but a broad and systemic lack of interest in holding women accountable for harm they cause.

If men started falsely accusing women a lot, we'd see a law passed immediately, and the women still wouldn't be going to prison over it when they did it.

[Liberal Thermidorian Reaction]

Reform is needed. The lack of adequate laws against frivolous reporting is why they do it.

Mate women can rape and beat men and not go to prison, there is next to no chance they'll go to prison for any meaningful length of time for lying about them until that is fixed. The lack of laws against frivolous reporting isn't the problem, but a broad and systemic lack of interest in holding women accountable for harm they cause.

If men started falsely accusing women a lot, we'd see a law passed immediately, and the women still wouldn't be going to prison over it when they did it.

I've noticed. I have even read about cases where a man was shot by a woman in the back and she got all the sympathy anyway.

[Kowani]

Yes, because from any reasonable standpoint you can only work with what you can actually prove. Now, you can definitely argue that the system is flawed and therefore there are more false allegations that go unpunished. However, you cannot make the jump to false allegations being common without actual proof.

Again you are projecting here. I never made the claim they were common. I was disputing the affirmative claim that they are not common and that's why we don't need to take them seriously as a problem, something you then supported by throwing that stat out and saying they weren't common.

You're the one making unproven statements here, i'm disputing unproven things. "Working with what we have" doesn't mean making unproven statements like "They're not exactly common".

It means "We don't know how common they are."

Something is either common or uncommon, it cannot be neither. The current status quo, with statistical backing, is that they are uncommon. The preview of the study that you gave me doesn’t actually say what the increase is, but common sense dictates that it cannot be overly large.

[Ostroeuropa]

Again you are projecting here. I never made the claim they were common. I was disputing the affirmative claim that they are not common and that's why we don't need to take them seriously as a problem, something you then supported by throwing that stat out and saying they weren't common.

You're the one making unproven statements here, i'm disputing unproven things. "Working with what we have" doesn't mean making unproven statements like "They're not exactly common".

It means "We don't know how common they are."

Something is either common or uncommon, it cannot be neither. The current status quo, with statistical backing, is that they are uncommon. The preview of the study that you gave me doesn’t actually say what the increase is, but common sense dictates that it cannot be overly large.

No, the current status quo is that 5% of false accusations can be proven false. That is neither common nor uncommon because those are subjective value judgements, and the statement "false accusations in general are uncommon" is based on something unproven and without statistical backing. You can say "It is uncommon for a false rape accusation to be proven false" with some backing because that is subjective but a valid evaluation, you cannot say "False rape accusations are uncommon".

Does common sense tell you that only 10% of rape allegations are true and if it's higher than that it can't be much higher? Why the discrepancy?

Mate women can rape and beat men and not go to prison, there is next to no chance they'll go to prison for any meaningful length of time for lying about them until that is fixed. The lack of laws against frivolous reporting isn't the problem, but a broad and systemic lack of interest in holding women accountable for harm they cause.

If men started falsely accusing women a lot, we'd see a law passed immediately, and the women still wouldn't be going to prison over it when they did it.

I've noticed. I have even read about cases where a man was shot by a woman in the back and she got all the sympathy anyway.

It is the effect of a cultural sickness rooted in lack of empathy for men, itself a consequence of feminism these days.

[The South Falls]

Something is either common or uncommon, it cannot be neither. The current status quo, with statistical backing, is that they are uncommon. The preview of the study that you gave me doesn’t actually say what the increase is, but common sense dictates that it cannot be overly large.

No, the current status quo is that 5% of false accusations can be proven false. That is neither common nor uncommon because those are subjective value judgements, and the statement "false accusations in general are uncommon" is based on something unproven and without statistical backing. You can say "It is uncommon for a false rape accusation to be proven false" with some backing because that is subjective but a valid evaluation, you cannot say "False rape accusations are uncommon".

Does common sense tell you that only 10% of rape allegations are true and if it's higher than that it can't be much higher? Why the discrepancy?

I've noticed. I have even read about cases where a man was shot by a woman in the back and she got all the sympathy anyway.

It is the effect of a cultural sickness rooted in lack of empathy for men, itself a consequence of feminism these days.

I've said it once and I'm going to say it again. The only elements with no empathy for men are an absolute fringe of society. It's like saying that the commies are taking over.

[Ostroeuropa]

No, the current status quo is that 5% of false accusations can be proven false. That is neither common nor uncommon because those are subjective value judgements, and the statement "false accusations in general are uncommon" is based on something unproven and without statistical backing. You can say "It is uncommon for a false rape accusation to be proven false" with some backing because that is subjective but a valid evaluation, you cannot say "False rape accusations are uncommon".

Does common sense tell you that only 10% of rape allegations are true and if it's higher than that it can't be much higher? Why the discrepancy?



It is the effect of a cultural sickness rooted in lack of empathy for men, itself a consequence of feminism these days.

I've said it once and I'm going to say it again. The only elements with no empathy for men are an absolute fringe of society. It's like saying that the commies are taking over.

The empathy gap is a provable and measurable phenomanae in society in general. People have low empathy for men relative to women.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

I think so too but i'd rather not disincentivize anyone from reporting that crime.



Rape is physical, a wrong false accusement most likely will just be thrown out when no evidence shows up for it.

I say most likely beacuse of things like this.

Thankfully things like this are rare beacuse most people are smart enough not to beat people to death over a accusation.

Reform is needed. The lack of adequate laws against frivolous reporting is why they do it.

Yes but it has to be careful not to give actual rapers a sword of damocles to hang over there victims heads.

[The South Falls]

I've said it once and I'm going to say it again. The only elements with no empathy for men are an absolute fringe of society. It's like saying that the commies are taking over.

The empathy gap is a provable and measurable phenomanae in society in general. People have low empathy for men relative to women.

Show me the studies, brother.

[US-SSR]

Young woman calls her brother and convinces him to beat up someone she took a dislike to on a bus for some undisclosed reason.

Powerful male accused of sexual assault by multiple women who were employees, service providers and/or aspiring clients lasting over a period of years.

If anyone has to explain the difference between these two things to you, you need much more help than NSG is set up to provide.

[Klorgia1]

She's going to prison, plain and simple.

[Vassenor]

She's going to prison, plain and simple.

For what?

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

She's going to prison, plain and simple.

For what?

The 16-year-old female?

Accessory to murder?

[The South Falls]

She's going to prison, plain and simple.

There are no laws against false accusation, not that I know of.

[Vassenor]

For what?

The 16-year-old female?

Accessory to murder?

Utah Code 76-2-202: Criminal responsibility for direct commission of offense or for conduct of another.
Every person, acting with the mental state required for the commission of an offense who directly commits the offense, who solicits, requests, commands, encourages, or intentionally aids another person to engage in conduct which constitutes an offense shall be criminally liable as a party for such conduct.

Sounds a bit tricky to prove in this case.