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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 9:29 am
by The Emerald Legion
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:It's super disgusting to be honest (the use and discard attitude Nazis have toward free speech, not the use and discard attitude Nazis have toward... traps). It's like they're proud of their hypocrisy.

Politics is full of people who are proud of their hypocrisy. It becomes more potent when the ideology being promoted is incredibly extreme.


I wouldn't even say it's necessarily an extreme thing so much as a separation between goal oriented politics and lifestyle oriented politics.

PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 10:06 am
by The Xenopolis Confederation
The Emerald Legion wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:Politics is full of people who are proud of their hypocrisy. It becomes more potent when the ideology being promoted is incredibly extreme.


I wouldn't even say it's necessarily an extreme thing so much as a separation between goal oriented politics and lifestyle oriented politics.

I haven't heard those terms used before. What are "goal oriented politics" and lifestyle oriented politics?"

PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 10:16 am
by Geminicland
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
Kustonia wrote:Neo-Nazis have't been calling for an ethnic cleansing. In fact, they're fighting for their free speech rights.

Nazis remind me of tankies, as they demand free speech rights for themselves, before taking it away from everyone else.

That's literally everyone except classical liberals.
The same people who say they promote free speech but oppose " hate speech" are just as hypocritical.

It also helps that a lot of people get called Nazis and have their livelhoods ruined by people who cliam to hate Nazis for their reppression of free expression.

Everyone wants freedom, for their faction.

That's politics in a nutshell.

Even classical liberals, they just see allowing free speech to more people as a means of maintaining it for themselves.

Every Fascist in history was censored before they got in power and censored their censors.

PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 10:25 am
by The Emerald Legion
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
The Emerald Legion wrote:
I wouldn't even say it's necessarily an extreme thing so much as a separation between goal oriented politics and lifestyle oriented politics.

I haven't heard those terms used before. What are "goal oriented politics" and lifestyle oriented politics?"


Goal Oriented politics are aimed at achieving a particular goal. For example, Nazis want to exterminate all the 'lesser' people. That's a goal, they don't particularly have a guiding way of life to go with that goal.

Lifestyle oriented politics typically instead focus on ways of life and guiding principles of that life. It's not focused on Grand Earth changing goals but on enabling people to live in a certain manner.

PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 2:18 pm
by Crockerland
Liriena wrote:They also say that "traps" are gay

Is the implication here that traps somehow aren't gay? :eyebrow:

PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 2:29 pm
by Chan Island
Crockerland wrote:
Liriena wrote:They also say that "traps" are gay

Is the implication here that traps somehow aren't gay? :eyebrow:


Of course the answer is neither, the entire question is a problematic category error.

https://youtu.be/PbBzhqJK3bg

PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 4:35 pm
by Bezkoshtovnya
Tornado Queendom wrote:
The Black Forrest wrote:
There is no such thing. You can't peacefully ethnic cleanse an area.

I feel like there is, although it is one that you should NEVER EVER try at home: Deportation and forced emigration. Again, Do NOT try this at home.

That can hardly be called peaceful.

PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 5:02 pm
by Ors Might
Crockerland wrote:
Liriena wrote:They also say that "traps" are gay

Is the implication here that traps somehow aren't gay? :eyebrow:

It’s only gay if you don’t say no homo

PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 7:52 pm
by Liriena
Crockerland wrote:
Liriena wrote:They also say that "traps" are gay

Is the implication here that traps somehow aren't gay? :eyebrow:

Some trans women definitely are gay... insofar as they are attracted to other women. But being a trans woman is not synonymous with being gay, and a dude being attracted to a trans woman isn't gay either.

PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 8:14 pm
by Proctopeo
Liriena wrote:
Crockerland wrote:Is the implication here that traps somehow aren't gay? :eyebrow:

Some trans women definitely are gay... insofar as they are attracted to other women. But being a trans woman is not synonymous with being gay, and a dude being attracted to a trans woman isn't gay either.

Those aren't synonymous friend

PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 8:27 pm
by Liriena
Proctopeo wrote:
Liriena wrote:Some trans women definitely are gay... insofar as they are attracted to other women. But being a trans woman is not synonymous with being gay, and a dude being attracted to a trans woman isn't gay either.

Those aren't synonymous friend

Trans women and "traps"? While some femboys might call themselves "traps", it seems to me like most self-described "traps" are trans women.

PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 8:30 pm
by Proctopeo
Liriena wrote:
Proctopeo wrote:Those aren't synonymous friend

Trans women and "traps"? While some femboys might call themselves "traps", it seems to me like most self-described "traps" are trans women.

I see a rather even mix, but in the context of the "are traps gay?" meme it's specifically in reference to anime "femboys", the, uh, group I guess most frequently called "traps".
The ones that give pleb-tier leftubers cerebral hemorrhages.

PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 11:44 pm
by The Xenopolis Confederation
Proctopeo wrote:
Liriena wrote:Trans women and "traps"? While some femboys might call themselves "traps", it seems to me like most self-described "traps" are trans women.

I see a rather even mix, but in the context of the "are traps gay?" meme it's specifically in reference to anime "femboys", the, uh, group I guess most frequently called "traps".
The ones that give pleb-tier leftubers cerebral hemorrhages.

A lot of trans people on the internet I've seen actually seem to be quite fond of those anime characters, yet hate the word "trap."

PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 11:49 pm
by Vassenor
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
Proctopeo wrote:I see a rather even mix, but in the context of the "are traps gay?" meme it's specifically in reference to anime "femboys", the, uh, group I guess most frequently called "traps".
The ones that give pleb-tier leftubers cerebral hemorrhages.

A lot of trans people on the internet I've seen actually seem to be quite fond of those anime characters, yet hate the word "trap."


Which makes me wonder why we're supposed to be OK with a term that reflects a mentality that has gotten people like us murdered.

PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 11:51 pm
by Liriena
Proctopeo wrote:
Liriena wrote:Trans women and "traps"? While some femboys might call themselves "traps", it seems to me like most self-described "traps" are trans women.

I see a rather even mix, but in the context of the "are traps gay?" meme it's specifically in reference to anime "femboys", the, uh, group I guess most frequently called "traps".
The ones that give pleb-tier leftubers cerebral hemorrhages.

[citation needed]

Not to mention those anime "femboys", more often than not, are trans women written by people who don't quite get how to describe them as such, or at the very least aren't capable of defining their identity in terms equivalent to the technical terminology more commonly understood in Europe and the Americas.

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:A lot of trans people on the internet I've seen actually seem to be quite fond of those anime characters, yet hate the word "trap."

Yep, pretty much.

Also, friendly reminder that Donkey Kong, Solid Snake and John Romero all said "trans rights", so cis gamers are cancelled and cis otakus are next. Hail Sobek!

PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2019 4:59 am
by Tornado Queendom
Vassenor wrote:
Tornado Queendom wrote:I feel like there is, although it is one that you should NEVER EVER try at home: Deportation and forced emigration. Again, Do NOT try this at home.


So how do you do that peacefully?

Just scare the immigrants away!

PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2019 5:20 am
by Vassenor
Tornado Queendom wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
So how do you do that peacefully?

Just scare the immigrants away!


And how do you do that peacefully?

PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2019 6:24 am
by Ors Might
Liriena wrote:
Proctopeo wrote:I see a rather even mix, but in the context of the "are traps gay?" meme it's specifically in reference to anime "femboys", the, uh, group I guess most frequently called "traps".
The ones that give pleb-tier leftubers cerebral hemorrhages.

[citation needed]

Not to mention those anime "femboys", more often than not, are trans women written by people who don't quite get how to describe them as such, or at the very least aren't capable of defining their identity in terms equivalent to the technical terminology more commonly understood in Europe and the Americas.

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:A lot of trans people on the internet I've seen actually seem to be quite fond of those anime characters, yet hate the word "trap."

Yep, pretty much.

Also, friendly reminder that Donkey Kong, Solid Snake and John Romero all said "trans rights", so cis gamers are cancelled and cis otakus are next. Hail Sobek!

Source on these femboys more often than not being trans-women? I am a man of considerable culture and never really picked up on that. The only one that comes to mind is from Steins Gate. I’ve always figured that they were ccis lads that just liked being fem. I can relate to that, somewhat.

PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2019 6:44 am
by Crockerland
Liriena wrote:[citation needed]

Not to mention those anime "femboys", more often than not, are trans women written by people who don't quite get how to describe them as such, or at the very least aren't capable of defining their identity in terms equivalent to the technical terminology more commonly understood in Europe and the Americas.

No, they aren't. They're cute gay boys in dresses, it ain't that complex. Quit with the gay erasure.

PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2019 8:36 am
by Galloism
Vassenor wrote:
Tornado Queendom wrote:Just scare the immigrants away!


And how do you do that peacefully?

We could ask Cenk Uygur how they did it for the peaceful Armenian relocation effort.

PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2019 8:55 am
by Ors Might
Galloism wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
And how do you do that peacefully?

We could ask Cenk Uygur how they did it for the peaceful Armenian relocation effort.

It’s not ethnic cleansing if you ask them to leave first *nods*

PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2019 9:06 am
by The Emerald Legion
Vassenor wrote:
Tornado Queendom wrote:I feel like there is, although it is one that you should NEVER EVER try at home: Deportation and forced emigration. Again, Do NOT try this at home.


So how do you do that peacefully?


I mean the other way is to just encourage miscegenation. So long as Population A is significantly higher than Population B, then in a few generations, Population B is magically gone.

Of course racists are unlikely to like that solution.

PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2019 9:18 am
by Proctopeo
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
Proctopeo wrote:I see a rather even mix, but in the context of the "are traps gay?" meme it's specifically in reference to anime "femboys", the, uh, group I guess most frequently called "traps".
The ones that give pleb-tier leftubers cerebral hemorrhages.

A lot of trans people on the internet I've seen actually seem to be quite fond of those anime characters, yet hate the word "trap."

I mean, they tend to-

Liriena wrote:
Proctopeo wrote:I see a rather even mix, but in the context of the "are traps gay?" meme it's specifically in reference to anime "femboys", the, uh, group I guess most frequently called "traps".
The ones that give pleb-tier leftubers cerebral hemorrhages.

[citation needed]

Not to mention those anime "femboys", more often than not, are trans women written by people who don't quite get how to describe them as such, or at the very least aren't capable of defining their identity in terms equivalent to the technical terminology more commonly understood in Europe and the Americas.

-ah, there it is.
I knew it was coming (because I know your Youtube preferences). Really, this attitude is just Western audiences trying to claim they know the character better than the writers, which is pretty shitty all things considered. A good rule of thumb if it's not explicitly stated in canon is to see what Japanese audiences see the character as: they have the full cultural context and potentially resources we don't, so checking Pixiv tags can be enlightening.

The only time audiences trying to claim they know the character better than the writers is when they pull a JK Rowling, but that's an exceptionally rare circumstance almost not seen out of Rowling herself.

Ors Might wrote:
Liriena wrote:[citation needed]

Not to mention those anime "femboys", more often than not, are trans women written by people who don't quite get how to describe them as such, or at the very least aren't capable of defining their identity in terms equivalent to the technical terminology more commonly understood in Europe and the Americas.


Yep, pretty much.

Also, friendly reminder that Donkey Kong, Solid Snake and John Romero all said "trans rights", so cis gamers are cancelled and cis otakus are next. Hail Sobek!

Source on these femboys more often than not being trans-women? I am a man of considerable culture and never really picked up on that. The only one that comes to mind is from Steins Gate. I’ve always figured that they were ccis lads that just liked being fem. I can relate to that, somewhat.

Almost every time, that's precisely what they are. There can be degrees of ambiguity, especially if you take things completely out of context, but it's usually clear if they're just effeminate men.
Typically the "sources" for this "information" are cherry picked quotes, circumstances, or just outright fabrications made by whoever is making the claim.

Crockerland wrote:
Liriena wrote:[citation needed]

Not to mention those anime "femboys", more often than not, are trans women written by people who don't quite get how to describe them as such, or at the very least aren't capable of defining their identity in terms equivalent to the technical terminology more commonly understood in Europe and the Americas.

No, they aren't. They're cute gay boys in dresses, it ain't that complex. Quit with the gay erasure.

Yeah, these people love to erase the gay and those who don't fit into traditional gender roles of dress or act by trying to claim they're "actually" trans.

PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2019 9:27 am
by Rostavykhan
Crockerland wrote:
Liriena wrote:[citation needed]

Not to mention those anime "femboys", more often than not, are trans women written by people who don't quite get how to describe them as such, or at the very least aren't capable of defining their identity in terms equivalent to the technical terminology more commonly understood in Europe and the Americas.

No, they aren't. They're cute gay boys in dresses, it ain't that complex. Quit with the gay erasure.


Hell, don't even have to be gay half the time.

I find it funny how Westerners like to assume a trap's gender identity just because they dress like a chick. There are plenty who just like to look feminine while still being dudes. Hell, I know people on NS and IRL who are that way.

That, and I'm pretty sure I've never watched an anime with a trap where they explicitly stated that they were trans, personally. There are probably some that do, but for the most part? Nah.

Vassenor wrote:
Tornado Queendom wrote:Just scare the immigrants away!


And how do you do that peacefully?


We burn a lower case T in their yards, for "time to leave", and dress up in white like ghosts to scare them.

PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2019 9:46 am
by The Empire of Pretantia
Liriena wrote:
Proctopeo wrote:I see a rather even mix, but in the context of the "are traps gay?" meme it's specifically in reference to anime "femboys", the, uh, group I guess most frequently called "traps".
The ones that give pleb-tier leftubers cerebral hemorrhages.

[citation needed]

Not to mention those anime "femboys", more often than not, are trans women written by people who don't quite get how to describe them as such,

Saika Totsuka from Oregairu, trap character whose most famous line is "I'm a boy."
Hideyoshi Kinoshita from Baka to Test, trap character who insists he's a guy.
Hime Arikawa from Himegoto, trap forced to crossdress, definitely a boy.
Rui Ninomiya from Gatchaman, boy who crossdresses.
Haku from Naruto, effeminate boy.
Mariya Shidou from Mariaholic, boy who pretends to be a girl at a Girls' School.
Felix from Re:Zero, boy who crossdresses.

These are some of the more famous examples.
Also, friendly reminder that Donkey Kong, Solid Snake and John Romero all said "trans rights", so cis gamers are cancelled and cis otakus are next. Hail Sobek!

Metal Gear is dead and John Romero is a hack so no.