Learning about white privilege is anti-white, studies prove

[Liriena]

Can I ask you about your personal experience in that regard?

I mean, I guess. It happened gradually over time and I can't relay specifics.

Does, for example, the whole "white privilege" thing make you feel less likely to support stuff like criminal justice reform?

Doesn't make me feel any more likely, but not any less likely either. By and large I see the two as separate.

Does feminist rhetoric make you feel less likely to support LGBT+ rights or abortion rights?

Again, feminist rhetoric and GLBT+ rights are largely separate. I support both, though the latter not to any extreme, and I'm largely "against the grain" with much of the GLBT community.

Also, you seem to be using a very simplistic view of the right...

I'm not assuming that you oppose any of those movements or policies. I'm just asking. I know you identify as a right-libertarian, but I could use a refresher on specifics.

At which point did you, presumably, start opposing universal healthcare or paid family leave, and why?

UHC, I don't support, paid family leave, to an extent I do support.
I never really supported UHC. The main reasons being government overreach, government incompetence, and government corruption. Fundamentally it's not a bad idea, it's just that in practice it requires great care (and luck) to make it work out for the benefit of all without giving the government too much power over people's lives and too much work to try and squeeze through its bureaucracy.

Got it.

[Liriena]

Can I ask you about your personal experience in that regard? Does, for example, the whole "white privilege" thing make you feel less likely to support stuff like criminal justice reform? Does feminist rhetoric make you feel less likely to support LGBT+ rights or abortion rights? At which point did you, presumably, start opposing universal healthcare or paid family leave, and why?

It makes me less able to participate in organizations and groups that push those policies because i'll be thrown out or ostracized, and more inclined to spend my time working on other issues related to fighting anti-white racism and misandry, often with right-wingers, and thereby boosting their profile and influence.

I'd say it's more a case of supporting those issues but not being activist as regards them, and in some ways my activism undermines them. That won't stop me doing it, it just means I want more left wing anti-feminists involved so that is no longer the case.

Trying to convince the right wing to change their minds wont stop me working with them, because we don't ostracize eachother and try and destroy eachothers influence, and have nobody else to work with on these topics.

Meanwhile I cannot work with the left and try and change their minds, largely because they wont let me.

It makes me more inclined to oppose some left wing foreign policy things based purely out of realpolitik, and i'm sure you can guess which ones I suddenly decided to flip on, comrade.

Crimea was always Russian, give us money daddy putin.

I'm also more likely to oppose left wing efforts in general on things like criminal justice reform, because they keep fucking it up and making it sexist. I wouldn't support a right wing justice reform that up and decided white males needed less time in prison either.

I'm opposed to the LGBT community in large part because of frequent bans on Mens Rights LGBT folk marching under that banner, and so deny their legitimacy as a representative community.

Abortion rights?
Again, a matter of activism. But broadly speaking while i'm in favor of abortion rights, emotionally I don't care anymore. I'll be sad when an MRA woman wants an abortion. I am bored of solidarity with those who offer none in return. In the event it's criminalized, i'd likely vote against it being legalized unless LPS is included in the deal.

The point of not wanting to offer solidarity to people who are constantly hostile to you and offer none in return probably explains a lot about modern politics and the rise of the far-right.

I tend to think of you and your politics as a very peculiar case, tbh, but I do appreciate your insight here.

Would you say that more openness to MRA activism within the left and a more critical left-wing attitude towards the consequences of institutionalized feminism would change your mind to some extent or at least encourage a return to solidarity?

The point of not wanting to offer solidarity to people who are constantly hostile to you and offer none in return probably explains a lot about modern politics and the rise of the far-right.

I think you do have a point here, but I wouldn't necessarily extend it as far as saying it's the only major factor behind the rise of the far right. A lot of the young white men who are part of the far right today aren't of a disenfranchized working class background, but from a rather upper or upper middle class one. They are people who never had any sympathy for anything remotely close to left-wing ideals or the disenfranchised.

[Des-Bal]

You’ Excuse me if I want a source.

Good point of approach Republicans noted black voters were typically democrats so they wanted majority-minority districts, mapped out territories where almost every voter was black. If a democrat won with with 91% of the vote then 40% of the democratic votes were wasted and republicans could win more easily in other districts. The NAACP loved this. The black districts were designed to, and very successful at, keeping black voters from effecting as many elections as possible but as a side effect they also meant more black representatives in congress. So the NAACP and republicans joined hands to fight the democrats and aggrieved white voters.

[Liriena]

You’ Excuse me if I want a source.

Good point of approach Republicans noted black voters were typically democrats so they wanted majority-minority districts, mapped out territories where almost every voter was black. If a democrat won with with 91% of the vote then 40% of the democratic votes were wasted and republicans could win more easily in other districts. The NAACP loved this. The black districts were designed to, and very successful at, keeping black voters from effecting as many elections as possible but as a side effect they also meant more black representatives in congress. So the NAACP and republicans joined hands to fight the democrats and aggrieved white voters.

At least from how you summarize it, it sounds to me like the NAACP arguably had their priorities a bit out of whack there.

[Des-Bal]

At least from how you summarize it, it sounds to me like the NAACP arguably had their priorities a bit out of whack there.

A lot of people would agree. Even assuming you don't care about the general idea of black voters should be represented proportionally and shouldn't be used like game pieces majority-minority districts, if proliferated, would mean the democratic party had less incentive to concern itself with the issues of black voters. The NAACP felt that black representatives were better for black people than how important their votes were to elections . It's factionalism, temporary coalitions, and myopic morality at every level of the political game.

[Ostroeuropa]

It makes me less able to participate in organizations and groups that push those policies because i'll be thrown out or ostracized, and more inclined to spend my time working on other issues related to fighting anti-white racism and misandry, often with right-wingers, and thereby boosting their profile and influence.

I'd say it's more a case of supporting those issues but not being activist as regards them, and in some ways my activism undermines them. That won't stop me doing it, it just means I want more left wing anti-feminists involved so that is no longer the case.

Trying to convince the right wing to change their minds wont stop me working with them, because we don't ostracize eachother and try and destroy eachothers influence, and have nobody else to work with on these topics.

Meanwhile I cannot work with the left and try and change their minds, largely because they wont let me.

It makes me more inclined to oppose some left wing foreign policy things based purely out of realpolitik, and i'm sure you can guess which ones I suddenly decided to flip on, comrade.

Crimea was always Russian, give us money daddy putin.

I'm also more likely to oppose left wing efforts in general on things like criminal justice reform, because they keep fucking it up and making it sexist. I wouldn't support a right wing justice reform that up and decided white males needed less time in prison either.

I'm opposed to the LGBT community in large part because of frequent bans on Mens Rights LGBT folk marching under that banner, and so deny their legitimacy as a representative community.

Abortion rights?
Again, a matter of activism. But broadly speaking while i'm in favor of abortion rights, emotionally I don't care anymore. I'll be sad when an MRA woman wants an abortion. I am bored of solidarity with those who offer none in return. In the event it's criminalized, i'd likely vote against it being legalized unless LPS is included in the deal.

The point of not wanting to offer solidarity to people who are constantly hostile to you and offer none in return probably explains a lot about modern politics and the rise of the far-right.

I tend to think of you and your politics as a very peculiar case, tbh, but I do appreciate your insight here.

Would you say that more openness to MRA activism within the left and a more critical left-wing attitude towards the consequences of institutionalized feminism would change your mind to some extent or at least encourage a return to solidarity?

The point of not wanting to offer solidarity to people who are constantly hostile to you and offer none in return probably explains a lot about modern politics and the rise of the far-right.

I think you do have a point here, but I wouldn't necessarily extend it as far as saying it's the only major factor behind the rise of the far right. A lot of the young white men who are part of the far right today aren't of a disenfranchized working class background, but from a rather upper or upper middle class one. They are people who never had any sympathy for anything remotely close to left-wing ideals or the disenfranchised.

Yeah definitely, and where I can I try and push things that direction.
+
I dunno about that. Politics in general tends toward representing those groups and they tend to be the most active. The working classes are disengaged in part because of this phenomanae, but when you offer them stuff like Brexit they turn out to vote. Likewise you've got street activism and a sense that voting is pointless. Think less in terms of who votes, and more in terms of who shares facebook memes.

The working classes aren't sharing feminist memes, that's for sure. They're sharing pro-white memes.

[Des-Bal]

I tend to think of you and your politics as a very peculiar case, tbh, but I do appreciate your insight here.

Would you say that more openness to MRA activism within the left and a more critical left-wing attitude towards the consequences of institutionalized feminism would change your mind to some extent or at least encourage a return to solidarity?


I think you do have a point here, but I wouldn't necessarily extend it as far as saying it's the only major factor behind the rise of the far right. A lot of the young white men who are part of the far right today aren't of a disenfranchized working class background, but from a rather upper or upper middle class one. They are people who never had any sympathy for anything remotely close to left-wing ideals or the disenfranchised.

Listen to MRAs and you'll hear a lot of anger and fear. These people are dissatisfied and when they raise a problem they feel as though they're being mocked for it. Why wouldn't they line up with their opposition?

The upper middle class are also people being targeted by privilege talk. If someone used your gender, income and race as a way to reduce the importance of your thoughts, problems, and views someone ready to pat your back would be welcome. If your a white, well-off, male whose struggled with addiction, mental illness, and coping with tragedy hearing about how easy white people have it is going to raise your hackles. Even if they're not being pushed right they're not being pushed away by the presence of white supremacists and a feeling of hostility from the other side is an important part of that.

[Bear Stearns]

Yeah, obviously. The implicit assumption of white privilege studies is that white people are bad.

[Kowani]

You’ Excuse me if I want a source.

Good point of approach Republicans noted black voters were typically democrats so they wanted majority-minority districts, mapped out territories where almost every voter was black. If a democrat won with with 91% of the vote then 40% of the democratic votes were wasted and republicans could win more easily in other districts. The NAACP loved this. The black districts were designed to, and very successful at, keeping black voters from effecting as many elections as possible but as a side effect they also meant more black representatives in congress. So the NAACP and republicans joined hands to fight the democrats and aggrieved white voters.

Well that’s just fucked.

[Costa Fierro]

Good point of approach Republicans noted black voters were typically democrats so they wanted majority-minority districts, mapped out territories where almost every voter was black. If a democrat won with with 91% of the vote then 40% of the democratic votes were wasted and republicans could win more easily in other districts. The NAACP loved this. The black districts were designed to, and very successful at, keeping black voters from effecting as many elections as possible but as a side effect they also meant more black representatives in congress. So the NAACP and republicans joined hands to fight the democrats and aggrieved white voters.

Well that’s just fucked.

It's opportunistic. If you want to get more black representatives, that's one way to do it.

[American Pere Housh]

There are racists in every race that I know but white privilege is a lie.

Prove it then.

Black Panther Party and Black Hebrew Israelites are some of the most racist people around.

[Liriena]

Prove it then.

Black Panther Party and Black Hebrew Israelites are some of the most racist people around.

While the Black Hebrew Israelites are definitely dickheads, "some of the most racist people around"? The worst Black Hebrew Israelites have done recently is shout stupid shit. Meanwhile, neo-nazis are shooting people and calling for an ethnic cleansing of the United States.

As for the "Black Panther Party", are you talking about the original Black Panthers or the new Black Panthers?

[Washington Resistance Army]

Black Panther Party and Black Hebrew Israelites are some of the most racist people around.

While the Black Hebrew Israelites are definitely dickheads, "some of the most racist people around"? The worst Black Hebrew Israelites have done recently is shout stupid shit. Meanwhile, neo-nazis are shooting people and calling for an ethnic cleansing of the United States.

As for the "Black Panther Party", are you talking about the original Black Panthers or the new Black Panthers?

The original party was also a black nationalist group for a while iirc

[Des-Bal]

While the Black Hebrew Israelites are definitely dickheads, "some of the most racist people around"? The worst Black Hebrew Israelites have done recently is shout stupid shit. Meanwhile, neo-nazis are shooting people and calling for an ethnic cleansing of the United States.

As for the "Black Panther Party", are you talking about the original Black Panthers or the new Black Panthers?

Does being more violent necessarily make you more racist?

The Nation of Islam believe that white people were invented by a mad scientist, that by their nature are born to deceive and murder, that being separated from black people cause many of them to turn into monkeys and apes, and that black dominance over the world is ordained by right and prophecy.

[The Emerald Legion]

I think you do have a point here, but I wouldn't necessarily extend it as far as saying it's the only major factor behind the rise of the far right. A lot of the young white men who are part of the far right today aren't of a disenfranchized working class background, but from a rather upper or upper middle class one. They are people who never had any sympathy for anything remotely close to left-wing ideals or the disenfranchised.

I wouldn't necessarily agree with that due to personal experience. Not exactly a scientific study, but Of those young white men who's political affiliations I know, most who lean to the Right are born poor. While those who lean left tend to be the more well off in upbringing.

[Unia Ante]

Maybe I shouldn't draw these kinds of conclusions, but I grew up in the only blue part of an otherwise completely conservative area. The liberal area I grew up in also happened to be the richest part of the area. Being in the middle class and therefore predominantly educated area, a lot of my friends became liberals in high school. Their behavior changed around then as well. They would make a lot more white people jokes and use being white as an insult (This is all just an observation, since I am an asian-american with immigrant parents, so I was a little different from my white, middle-class friends). However, I noticed that when they were mad the racist would come out of them again. They actually would have educated discussions about white privilege quite often, but if they were mad and their anger happened to be aimed at a black person they would say all kind of generalized racist things that would make you think they weren't educated at all. So, this article doesn't really surprise me. To me, I concluded that even though my friends were more educated about racism, there wasn't much change in empathy.

[Emulation White]

You said:



Is that not what is happening here? Or are you backtracking that that’s a good reason for racial pride?

If the white supremacists feel they're oppressed then of course they'll have a pride movement in response. Given that there has been no historical instance of whites as a whole people being oppressed or even enslaved it makes them look like snowflakes wanting to act like the Real Victims but hey, let them.

Fucking racist, so tired of this Anti-White garbage..."no historical instance", European history is filled with aggression from outside forces and inside. All people like you is try to dehumanize us and delegitimize our suffering, but we continue in spite of your hate!

[Vassenor]

If the white supremacists feel they're oppressed then of course they'll have a pride movement in response. Given that there has been no historical instance of whites as a whole people being oppressed or even enslaved it makes them look like snowflakes wanting to act like the Real Victims but hey, let them.

Fucking racist, so tired of this Anti-White garbage..."no historical instance", European history is filled with aggression from outside forces and inside. All people like you is try to dehumanize us and delegitimize our suffering, but we continue in spite of your hate!

So where are people being oppressed or enslaved purely for being white?

[Nakena]

Fucking racist, so tired of this Anti-White garbage..."no historical instance", European history is filled with aggression from outside forces and inside. All people like you is try to dehumanize us and delegitimize our suffering, but we continue in spite of your hate!

So where are people being oppressed or enslaved purely for being white?

Maybe South Africa or Zimbabwe sometimes.

[The Black Forrest]

Fucking racist, so tired of this Anti-White garbage..."no historical instance", European history is filled with aggression from outside forces and inside. All people like you is try to dehumanize us and delegitimize our suffering, but we continue in spite of your hate!

So where are people being oppressed or enslaved purely for being white?

Practically nowhere. I did have an incident of racism though. Back at uni I met a black gal and took an interest in her. Her old man pitched a royal fit she was even considering going out with a white guy. I nixed it for the sake of her and her family. A shame though. I would have treated her right.

[Vassenor]

So where are people being oppressed or enslaved purely for being white?

Maybe South Africa or Zimbabwe sometimes.

Which depending on your point of view can be seen as backlash for how black Africans were treated under the old governments.

[Galloism]

Maybe South Africa or Zimbabwe sometimes.

Which depending on your point of view can be seen as backlash for how black Africans were treated under the old governments.

Which is still people being oppressed for being white.

"He did it first" is neither a good excuse in geopolitics nor a kindergarten playground.

That being said, aside from the info provided on NS about the UK school system a couple months ago, where poor white boys are seeing substantially more discrimination than other groups, I've not seen it outside of Zimbabwe and South Africa other than isolated racism in spots.

[Nakena]

Which depending on your point of view can be seen as backlash for how black Africans were treated under the old governments.

So this would make that an understandable reaction?

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Maybe South Africa or Zimbabwe sometimes.

Which depending on your point of view can be seen as backlash for how black Africans were treated under the old governments.

That's no excuse.

[Nova Cyberia]

Maybe South Africa or Zimbabwe sometimes.

Which depending on your point of view can be seen as backlash for how black Africans were treated under the old governments.

Apparently Vassenor believes blacks can get a free pass for oppressing whites simply because whites did it first.

Classy.