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The Meaning Of Liberalism

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The Xenopolis Confederation
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The Meaning Of Liberalism

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Wed May 08, 2019 7:57 am

"Liberalism" and "liberal" is a word I often hear thrown around a lot with little care as to its meaning. These days, the word "liberal" at least on this forum and others like it is used slightly more prejoratively than endorsingly. But why is that? To understand why, we must first determine what liberalism is.

To some on the right, it seems liberalism is a synonym for left-wing, often used as a prejoritive with a meaning similar to "pinko" or "SJW." And yet, to some on the left, liberalism is a synonym for "capitalist," in fact, many leftists see liberalism as "the ideology of capitalism." Already, we have two seemingly contradictor definitions that vary depending on political affiliation.

Wikipedia (the beginning and not the ending of research, but still) says "Liberalism is a political and moral philosophy based on liberty and equal rights." The problem is, this is a very broad definition which could easily be argued to apply to anarcho-communists as well as to contemporary conservatives. Wikipedia then goes on to say "liberals generally support limited government, individual rights, capitalism, democracy, secularism, gender equality, racial equality, internationalism, freedom of speech, freedom of the press and freedom of religion. To me I think that provides something more concrete. From this it can be observed that liberalism generally favours policies based on individual rights & freedoms and eauality of opportunity, which I think is at the core of liberalism.

One problem though is the "individual rights & freedoms and equality of opportunity" definition arguably still leaves in libertarian socialists, who most people would not define as liberal. Maybe then; "individual rights & freedoms and equality of opportunity from a pro-private property perspective."

What say you NSG? What do you mean when you see the word liberal? Do you think I'm onto something here, or am I just way off and rambling? Furthermore, do you think liberalism's a good thing or not? I gotta admit, I think liberalism's pretty good relative to other political ideologies. I want to create some sort of poll, but I don't really know what the poll options would be... whoops.
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Kavagrad
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Postby Kavagrad » Wed May 08, 2019 8:01 am

Liberalism is anything that I don't like.
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Valrifell
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Postby Valrifell » Wed May 08, 2019 8:03 am

Kavagrad wrote:Liberalism is anything that I don't like.


Occasionally it's everything that I like, depending on my mood.
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LiberNovusAmericae
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Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Wed May 08, 2019 8:52 am

Liberalism to me means personal freedom alongside free markets, though to be fair, that is only one type of liberalism.

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A Cornstar
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Authoritarian Democracy

Postby A Cornstar » Wed May 08, 2019 9:03 am

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:Liberalism to me means personal freedom alongside free markets, though to be fair, that is only one type of liberalism.

Life, liberty, property
Kavagrad wrote:Liberalism is anything that I don't like.

Kind of agree. Liberalism in practice has been a Pandora's box of leftism.
Romano-Celtic Americans, Vercingetorix was a martyr tho
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Tavutelle and Firdland
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Postby Tavutelle and Firdland » Wed May 08, 2019 9:04 am

Biry

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Soviet Tankistan
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Postby Soviet Tankistan » Wed May 08, 2019 9:05 am

Exactly what it is.
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The Xenopolis Confederation
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Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Wed May 08, 2019 9:07 am

A Cornstar wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:Liberalism to me means personal freedom alongside free markets, though to be fair, that is only one type of liberalism.

Life, liberty, property
Kavagrad wrote:Liberalism is anything that I don't like.

Kind of agree. Liberalism in practice has been a Pandora's box of leftism.

I'm curious as to what you mean when you say liberalism's a pandora's box of leftism. And how does that relate to life, liberty & property? Are you saying that life, liberty & property is a pandora's box of leftism?
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A Cornstar
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Authoritarian Democracy

Postby A Cornstar » Wed May 08, 2019 10:44 am

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
A Cornstar wrote:Life, liberty, property

Kind of agree. Liberalism in practice has been a Pandora's box of leftism.

I'm curious as to what you mean when you say liberalism's a pandora's box of leftism. And how does that relate to life, liberty & property? Are you saying that life, liberty & property is a pandora's box of leftism?

Separate points. Liberalism like Locke's merely piggy-backed on the American Revolution which was more about geographical and cultural separation, as well as Parliament failing to honor rights already given. The French Revolution began as an attempt at reform but was hijacked by the Jacobins. Jocobin Liberalism is less about rights as it is about deifying "reason" which is why Napoleon so easily co-opted it even as a dictator and war monger. Ideological "science" was a veneer adopted by Socialists who portrayed the middle class as a replacement nobility (on this I agree but believe the problem is they are a poor substitute) and were therefore continuing Liberalism as a movement. That veneer is used by modern leftists in economic and social politics. What we call conservative today is just a mix of Locke and Jacobin. Actual Conservatives are open to reform, but are against revolution and regicide.
Romano-Celtic Americans, Vercingetorix was a martyr tho
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Postby Umpus » Wed May 08, 2019 10:51 am

The center-left.
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Risottia » Wed May 08, 2019 10:52 am

A liberal is a right-of-centre to right-wing supporter of democracy and rule-of-law who, in the liberté-egalité-fraternité triad, prefers to sacrifice some equality and solidarity to emphasise freedom.
Last edited by Risottia on Wed May 08, 2019 10:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby North German Realm » Wed May 08, 2019 11:03 am

Well, the definition is kinda shabby, especially in the modern age where the line between "Personal Freedom at the expense of the State" and "Personal Freedom of the individual with the state's help at the extent of the other Individuals" start to blur.
To me, however, a Liberal is a person supporting Parliamentarian Democracy, Rule of Law, and the increase of the number of Personal Freedoms a state will ensure to support. They're decidedly not anti-statist, but they have a healthy suspicion for the State. Economic Freedom is, to me, irrelevant to liberalism but they still don't support heavy-handed intervention or implementation of large-scale welfare, but I'm probably not in the majority in this particular view
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Postby Mushet » Wed May 08, 2019 12:10 pm

I'd say the mainstream of American political thought is all liberalism, with different people emphasizing different facets of it and with some religion thrown in the mix. The fact that it's become part of some stupid dichotomy supposedly representing the "left" of the American political spectrum is asinine and a product of these terms being bastardized for the sake of partisanship and marketing.
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Postby Kavagrad » Wed May 08, 2019 12:12 pm

Valrifell wrote:
Kavagrad wrote:Liberalism is anything that I don't like.


Occasionally it's everything that I like, depending on my mood.

Quiet, l i b e r a l

:P
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The Xenopolis Confederation
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Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Wed May 08, 2019 8:33 pm

Tavutelle and Firdland wrote:Biry

What?
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LiberNovusAmericae
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Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Wed May 08, 2019 8:37 pm

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
Tavutelle and Firdland wrote:Biry

What?

I think that was just a shitpost. I don't think it means anything, but I could be wrong.

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Nakena
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Postby Nakena » Wed May 08, 2019 8:37 pm

As any ideology it can take bad and destructive forms.

And thats exactly what happens those Days, by many of it's followers being promoting dysfunctional worldviews.

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Postby Auzkhia » Wed May 08, 2019 8:48 pm

Liberalism is the general support of capitalist market economies, representative democracies, and the emphasis of liberty over other principles of solidarity and equality, even though liberals value these principles too, especially equality before the law and unity of the community or the nation. It had its origins in the enlightenment in Europe, and the French Revolution and American War for Independence were some of the first applications of liberal political theory, replacing absolute monarchy, feudalism, and mercantilism.

It's much more reformist nowadays, and largely had applications through state reform rather than revolution. Mercantilism was a very restrictive form of capitalism. It is a centrist and right leaning ideology and the left reject some, but not all, of liberalism, but they heavily disagree on is capitalism. All left wing ideologies are anti-capitalist.

Nordic model social democracy is the like bridge between liberalism and socialism. But overall, there is a stark, and even exclusive, difference between liberalism and the left.
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LiberNovusAmericae
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Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Wed May 08, 2019 8:50 pm

One type of liberalism I despise is the more statist form of "liberalism" that justifies the Reign of Terror in France.
Last edited by LiberNovusAmericae on Wed May 08, 2019 9:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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The Xenopolis Confederation
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Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Wed May 08, 2019 8:54 pm

Nakena wrote:As any ideology it can take bad and destructive forms.

And thats exactly what happens those Days, by many of it's followers being promoting dysfunctional worldviews.

To which dysfunctional worldviews are you referring?
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Nakena
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Postby Nakena » Wed May 08, 2019 9:00 pm

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
Nakena wrote:As any ideology it can take bad and destructive forms.

And thats exactly what happens those Days, by many of it's followers being promoting dysfunctional worldviews.

To which dysfunctional worldviews are you referring?


The current stem of popular mainstream media fuelled progressive-liberalism that has emerged in the past decade.
Last edited by Nakena on Wed May 08, 2019 9:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Diarcesia
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Postby Diarcesia » Thu May 09, 2019 12:09 am

OP and I have pretty much the same understanding regarding liberalism.

Main difference based on recent observations: Liberals support democracy only when liberals get elected, which makes me think that as some move to the more socialist schools of thought, others will gravitate towards the classical interpretation of liberalism.

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Postby Tetradimensional Overworld » Thu May 09, 2019 12:12 am

Liberalism according to my father is capitalism. But he says that Japan is socialist, so I take that with a grain of salt.
Liberalism is mild libertarianism at least in my opinion.
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Wawakanatote » Thu May 09, 2019 12:16 am

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:One type of liberalism I despise is the more statist form of "liberalism" that justifies the Reign of Terror in France.


You could have just said neoliberalism to shorten this whole thing.
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Tetradimensional Overworld
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Postby Tetradimensional Overworld » Thu May 09, 2019 12:21 am

Wawakanatote wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:One type of liberalism I despise is the more statist form of "liberalism" that justifies the Reign of Terror in France.


You could have just said neoliberalism to shorten this whole thing.

Neoliberalism = uhhh...
it's just a piece of bullcrap.
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