Brunei makes U-turn on gay sex death penalty

[Wunderstrafanstalt]

Cutting off trade is not the same as sanctioning. The former I can agree with; the latter I cannot.

What world are you living in where sanctions is not the same thing as cutting off trade?

Maybe they thought sanction is, idk, the UN pulling fines from nations like speeding fine. Or boycott, which actually happens (but not an official policy)

[Scomagia]

Cutting off trade is not the same as sanctioning. The former I can agree with; the latter I cannot.

What world are you living in where sanctions is not the same thing as cutting off trade?

The world where sanctions are targetted, rather than blanket, means of cutting off trade? Sanctions kill some trade. Cutting off trade...well, it's obvious, no?

[Andsed]

What world are you living in where sanctions is not the same thing as cutting off trade?

The world where sanctions are targetted, rather than blanket, means of cutting off trade? Sanctions kill some trade. Cutting off trade...well, it's obvious, no?

Fair enough.

[Purpelia]

Sanctions are the disgusting and criminal practice of imperialist powers imposing their morality and way of life on foreigners by force of economic destruction. They are essentially the national equivalent of pedophilic rape.

[The New California Republic]

Sanctions are the disgusting and criminal practice of imperialist powers imposing their morality and way of life on foreigners by force of economic destruction. They are essentially the national equivalent of pedophilic rape.

That's a bit strong...

[United Muscovite Nations]

Sanctions are the disgusting and criminal practice of imperialist powers imposing their morality and way of life on foreigners by force of economic destruction. They are essentially the national equivalent of pedophilic rape.

That's a bit strong...

As much as I dislike what Brunei proposed, he has a point. A lot of people will cry that we must always respect a nation's right to self-determination, until that nation does something they don't like, at which point they must be strongarmed into conforming with the Western democratic consensus.

[Scomagia]

Sanctions are the disgusting and criminal practice of imperialist powers imposing their morality and way of life on foreigners by force of economic destruction. They are essentially the national equivalent of pedophilic rape.

So what you're saying is that it's criminal and disgusting to stop doing business with countries with whom you have extreme moral differences? That's interesting and also very stupid.

And in what way is it criminal, exactly? Care to direct the rest of us to the relevant international law or treaty that sanctions violate?

[Duhon]

Sanctions are the disgusting and criminal practice of imperialist powers imposing their morality and way of life on foreigners by force of economic destruction. They are essentially the national equivalent of pedophilic rape.

... ah, the moral high horse of straddling on the same side as the executioners of LGBTs.

[Gormwood]

Sanctions are the disgusting and criminal practice of imperialist powers imposing their morality and way of life on foreigners by force of economic destruction. They are essentially the national equivalent of pedophilic rape.

So you're saying North Korea and Cuba should not be sanctioned?

[United Muscovite Nations]

Sanctions are the disgusting and criminal practice of imperialist powers imposing their morality and way of life on foreigners by force of economic destruction. They are essentially the national equivalent of pedophilic rape.

... ah, the moral high horse of straddling on the same side as the executioners of LGBTs.

What I criticize just as much as executioners are the people who say we need to fight against moralism and be tolerant of social differences, but then impose their own moralism on other societies. People need to decide what they believe about ethics before making any political criticism.

[Purpelia]

That's a bit strong...

Not at all. That is literally what it is. Big nations breaking into smaller ones and forcing them at gunpoint to oppress their people by violating their fundamental right to self determination (to chose their government type and way of life).

So what you're saying is that it's criminal and disgusting to stop doing business with countries with whom you have extreme moral differences? That's interesting and also very stupid.

And in what way is it criminal, exactly? Care to direct the rest of us to the relevant international law or treaty that sanctions violate?

Would you like it if someone was to put your nation under sanctions because they disagree with your customs?

Assume for a moment you are american. It's a simply thing to assume since you either are (most people on the internet are) or are at least heavily familiar with their strange and confusing culture due to massive exposure (again, internet). So let's assume you are.

Now, where I am from most american customs are strange, confusing or outright revolting. The idea that they allow everyone to own and walk around with deadly firearms. The idea that they allow people to school children at home and teach them all sorts of insane pseudo-science and creationism instead of actual knowledge (leading to religious violence). The idea that they refuse to have socialized medicine. Their distrust of government and its officials. The list is endless.

Now imagine if my nation was to get the UN to sanction America until they decide to reverse those customs. After all it's only reasonable to have these barbarians who keep killing each other on the streets give up their weapons. Or to have remove the government they so obviously distrust and replace it with something more civilized. And of course there surely can be no question of the moral validity of freeing them of the mind dulling oppression that comes with religious extremism. Surely, those sanctions would be just and proper? Right?

And this is NOT a farce either. Like, from where I am standing you can make a perfectly valid argument for doing just that. And if I were not in opposition to interventionism as a matter of principal I'd find it hard to find any other reason to oppose them.

Thing about that for a moment.

... ah, the moral high horse of straddling on the same side as the executioners of LGBTs.

I disagree with their choices but must defend to the death their right to make them. Lest my right to make my choices fall along side with theirs.

So you're saying North Korea and Cuba should not be sanctioned?

Absolutely not. Nobody should ever be forced to change their internal politics at gunpoint. The people of those nations have the right to run them as they see fit. And if we find their ways strange, alien or even evil we must simply shrug and accept that to them we seem just as strange, alien and evil. It is the same principal that drives us in the west to show the tolerance we are renowned for. The very thing that drives you in your replies to me.

[Scomagia]

That's a bit strong...

Not at all. That is literally what it is. Big nations breaking into smaller ones and forcing them at gunpoint to oppress their people by violating their fundamental right to self determination (to chose their government type and way of life).

So what you're saying is that it's criminal and disgusting to stop doing business with countries with whom you have extreme moral differences? That's interesting and also very stupid.

And in what way is it criminal, exactly? Care to direct the rest of us to the relevant international law or treaty that sanctions violate?

Would you like it if someone was to put your nation under sanctions because they disagree with your customs?

Assume for a moment you are american. It's a simply thing to assume since you either are (most people on the internet are) or are at least heavily familiar with their strange and confusing culture due to massive exposure (again, internet). So let's assume you are.

Now, where I am from most american customs are strange, confusing or outright revolting. The idea that they allow everyone to own and walk around with deadly firearms. The idea that they allow people to school children at home and teach them all sorts of insane pseudo-science and creationism instead of actual knowledge (leading to religious violence). The idea that they refuse to have socialized medicine. Their distrust of government and its officials. The list is endless.

Now imagine if my nation was to get the UN to sanction America until they decide to reverse those customs. After all it's only reasonable to have these barbarians who keep killing each other on the streets give up their weapons. Or to have remove the government they so obviously distrust and replace it with something more civilized. And of course there surely can be no question of the moral validity of freeing them of the mind dulling oppression that comes with religious extremism. Surely, those sanctions would be just and proper? Right?

And this is NOT a farce either. Like, from where I am standing you can make a perfectly valid argument for doing just that. And if I were not in opposition to interventionism as a matter of principal I'd find it hard to find any other reason to oppose them.

Thing about that for a moment.

... ah, the moral high horse of straddling on the same side as the executioners of LGBTs.

I disagree with their choices but must defend to the death their right to make them. Lest my right to make my choices fall along side with theirs.

So you're saying North Korea and Cuba should not be sanctioned?

Absolutely not. Nobody should ever be forced to change their internal politics at gunpoint. The people of those nations have the right to run them as they see fit. And if we find their ways strange, alien or even evil we must simply shrug and accept that to them we seem just as strange, alien and evil. It is the same principal that drives us in the west to show the tolerance we are renowned for. The very thing that drives you in your replies to me.

I would not be upset if a nation ended trade with us because of differing opinions on the treatment f our citizens. A nation has a right to trade with whomever they desire. As far as sanctions go, I don't have any issue with a nation convincing other nations not to trade with us, either.

[Gormwood]

So you're saying North Korea and Cuba should not be sanctioned?

Absolutely not. Nobody should ever be forced to change their internal politics at gunpoint. The people of those nations have the right to run them as they see fit. And if we find their ways strange, alien or even evil we must simply shrug and accept that to them we seem just as strange, alien and evil. It is the same principal that drives us in the west to show the tolerance we are renowned for. The very thing that drives you in your replies to me.

So following that logic you're saying it was wrong to overthrow the Islamic State?

[Heloin]

So you're saying North Korea and Cuba should not be sanctioned?

Absolutely not. Nobody should ever be forced to change their internal politics at gunpoint. The people of those nations have the right to run them as they see fit. And if we find their ways strange, alien or even evil we must simply shrug and accept that to them we seem just as strange, alien and evil. It is the same principal that drives us in the west to show the tolerance we are renowned for. The very thing that drives you in your replies to me.

So instead all nations should be forced to trade with countries they disagree with?

[Scomagia]

Absolutely not. Nobody should ever be forced to change their internal politics at gunpoint. The people of those nations have the right to run them as they see fit. And if we find their ways strange, alien or even evil we must simply shrug and accept that to them we seem just as strange, alien and evil. It is the same principal that drives us in the west to show the tolerance we are renowned for. The very thing that drives you in your replies to me.

So instead all nations should be forced to trade with countries they disagree with?

Apparently ending trade with NK is wrong and exploitative but enabling the oppression of their citizenry by continuing trade is a-ok. Strange times.

[Heloin]

So instead all nations should be forced to trade with countries they disagree with?

Apparently ending trade with NK is wrong and exploitative but enabling the oppression of their citizenry by continuing trade is a-ok. Strange times.

I always thought Westphalian sovereignty was supposed to work both ways. I guess it's only is allowed to benefit dictatorships and autocratic regimes.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Apparently ending trade with NK is wrong and exploitative but enabling the oppression of their citizenry by continuing trade is a-ok. Strange times.

I always thought Westphalian sovereignty was supposed to work both ways. I guess it's only is allowed to benefit dictatorships and autocratic regimes.

It would benefit democratic countries too if our countries were economically small.

[Andsed]

So instead all nations should be forced to trade with countries they disagree with?

Apparently ending trade with NK is wrong and exploitative but enabling the oppression of their citizenry by continuing trade is a-ok. Strange times.

Indeed. I mean I can see the objection to say the UN sanctioning a nation for this kind of stuff but the idea that a nation has the right to do whatever they wish to their citizens but a nation does not have the right to cut off trade with them if they disagree with that is nonsensical.

[Wunderstrafanstalt]

That's a bit strong...

As much as I dislike what Brunei proposed, he has a point. A lot of people will cry that we must always respect a nation's right to self-determination, until that nation does something they don't like, at which point they must be strongarmed into conforming with the Western democratic consensus.

Another argument for the establishment of a UN elected parliament which will draft an actual human rights declaration/law, and the next step towards a world government

[United Muscovite Nations]

As much as I dislike what Brunei proposed, he has a point. A lot of people will cry that we must always respect a nation's right to self-determination, until that nation does something they don't like, at which point they must be strongarmed into conforming with the Western democratic consensus.

Another argument for the establishment of a UN elected parliament which will draft an actual human rights declaration/law, and the next step towards a world government

A world government can't account for diversity in worldview and would be doomed to collapse almost as soon as it came into being.

[Scomagia]

Another argument for the establishment of a UN elected parliament which will draft an actual human rights declaration/law, and the next step towards a world government

A world government can't account for diversity in worldview and would be doomed to collapse almost as soon as it came into being.

And it would be slanted toward a metropolitan mindset and seek to serve the interests of urban areas over rural ones. I already get pissed at folks in Portland essentially making decisions on rural issues they haven't got the foggiest clue on. I imagine my rage at global urbanites making similar decisions would reach revolutionary levels. It would be intolerable and I wouldn't be alone.

[Communist Zombie Horde]

The death penalty was very extreme- hopefully the learn how to deal with homosexuality peacefully. I think Islamist is making this so bad when they could ban it without killing.

[Heloin]

The death penalty was very extreme- hopefully the learn how to deal with homosexuality peacefully. I think Islamist is making this so bad when they could ban it without killing.

It's already banned in Brunei, and it's still fucking stupid.

[The New California Republic]

The death penalty was very extreme- hopefully the learn how to deal with homosexuality peacefully. I think Islamist is making this so bad when they could ban it without killing.

Or they could just not ban it...?

[Slotted Floppies]

The death penalty was very extreme- hopefully the learn how to deal with homosexuality peacefully. I think Islamist is making this so bad when they could ban it without killing.

You know how to deal with homosexuality peacefully?
Ignore it, literally do nothing, make no laws, report no breaches to any laws you do have and just go about your day.

Completely
Fucking
Peaceful