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Brunei makes U-turn on gay sex death penalty

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Astoriya
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Brunei makes U-turn on gay sex death penalty

Postby Astoriya » Mon May 06, 2019 4:59 am

Source.

Brunei will not impose the death penalty on those convicted of having gay sex, in an apparent bid to temper international condemnation following its roll out of strict new Islamic laws last month.

In a televised speech on Sunday, the country's ruler, Sultan Hassanal Bolkiah, said he would extend a moratorium on capital punishment and ratify the United Nations Convention Against Torture.
The announcement follows a global backlash to the country's announcement in April that it would impose draconian new punishments, including death by stoning, for those convicted of gay sex, adultery and rape.
In a high profile campaign, celebrities, including George Clooney and Elton John, joined rights groups in seeking to boycott hotels owned by the sultan, while large companies including JPMorgan and Deutsche Bank told their staff to avoid using Brunei-owned hotels in the wake of new laws.
Is the sultan of Brunei imposing Sharia law to clean up his family's image?
Is the sultan of Brunei imposing Sharia law to clean up his family's image?
The tiny oil-rich Asian kingdom became the first East Asian country to introduce Sharia law at a national level in 2014, introducing the legislation and associated penalties in stages.
The country initially defended its new legal code, claiming it focused "more on prevention and punishment," but the growing backlash appears to have forced the kingdom's hand.
In his speech on Sunday, the sultan said there had been a number of "misconceptions" about the laws which he acknowledged may have caused "apprehension."
"However, we believe that once these have been cleared, the merit of the law will be evident," he said.
The sultan announced the kingdom's long-term moratorium on the death penalty would also extend to the new penal code, although he didn't elaborate whether this was a new decision.
"For more than two decades, we have practiced a de facto moratorium on the execution of death penalty for cases under the common law. This will also be applied to cases under the Syariah Penal Code Order (SPCO)," the sultan said.
Despite his announcement on the death penalty, Brunei's leader said Sunday he stood by his new penal code overall.
"Both the common law and the Syariah law aim to ensure peace and harmony of the country. They are also crucial in protecting the morality and decency of the public as well as respecting the privacy of individuals," he said.
LGBT citizens still face punishment
There was widespread relief among LGBT and human rights activists in the wake of the announcement. Celebrations though have so far been muted, amid concerns that the laws themselves remain in place.
Human Rights Campaign Director of Global Partnership Jean Freedberg said the moratorium was an important step but added the new Islamic penal code itself needed to go.
"The world has turned its eyes to Brunei in recent months and we urge the countless advocates, activists and organizations who seized this moment to speak out against these human rights abuses to continue to do so," she said.
A gay man living inside Brunei, who asked not to be named, said while the sultan's announcement was "good news," it did nothing to address widespread homophobia and discrimination in the kingdom.
"If they don't do anything to show that they are supporting the LGBT community, nothing will change. Religion still has a major effect towards homophobia," he said.
Even if they weren't put to death, LGBT citizens of Brunei could still face fines, whipping or jail, said Matthew Woolfe, founder of human rights groups The Brunei Project.
The law is still hanging over the heads of Brunei's LGBT community, Woolfe said. "There is nothing stopping the Brunei Government from lifting the moratorium at any time."
CNN's Chermaine Lee contributed to this article.


So basically, they've backed down from imposing the death penalty for gay sex (but seemingly not for adultery), after massive worldwide opposition, returning the country into what it was before last month.
However, they won't yet remove the prohibition of homosexuality - maybe we could try and pursue that avenue?

What are your thoughts, NSG?

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The Huskar Social Union
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Postby The Huskar Social Union » Mon May 06, 2019 5:06 am

Its good they reverse their decision on it, killing someone for their sexuality is absolutely fucking backwards and a load of bollocks. Hopefully they will decriminalize it in the future
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Postby Petrolheadia » Mon May 06, 2019 5:10 am

Hotel boycott, airline boycott... who says the free market doesn't work?
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The Free Joy State
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Postby The Free Joy State » Mon May 06, 2019 5:12 am

I'm glad they reversed this policy (though, if they haven't reversed their policy on the death penalty for adultery, that should be changed, too).

Hopefully, in time, homosexuality will be decriminalised, both in Brunei and everywhere else where remains a crime.

Love between two consenting adults should never be a crime.
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Dumb Ideologies
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Postby Dumb Ideologies » Mon May 06, 2019 5:14 am

If you think about it, both the policy and the reversal were trying to protect damage to the bottom line.
Are these "human rights" in the room with us right now?
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Postby Novus America » Mon May 06, 2019 5:20 am

I worry this will allow him to get away with whipping and jailing people for it Scott free.

This is a common negotiation strategy. Make the most extreme demand so that people think your actual position is more reasonable and a concession, when on its own it would still be considered extreme.

Here I worry that the outrage over the stoning will dissipate, people and companies continue to support his brutal regime by dropping the boycott despite the fact that even without stoning the regime commits gross suppression of political and civil liberties.
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East Meranopirus
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Postby East Meranopirus » Mon May 06, 2019 5:21 am

Novus America wrote:I worry this will allow him to get away with whipping and jailing people for it Scott free.

This is a common negotiation strategy. Make the most extreme demand so that people think your actual position is more reasonable and a concession, when on its own it would still be considered extreme.

Here I worry that the outrage over the stoning will dissipate, people and companies continue to support his brutal regime by dropping the boycott despite the fact that even without stoning the regime commits gross suppression of political and civil liberties.

Exactly. I'm glad a lot of people have already realised this, so hopefully they don't get away with it.

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Heloin
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Postby Heloin » Mon May 06, 2019 5:22 am

Not killing people for gay sex is a positive development. The Sultan of Brunei should still told to get fucked since he alone decides what laws Brunei follows and he clearly still wants this law. Made more clear since he hasn't gotten rid of the law, just stated that it won't be enforced.

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Kaystein
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Postby Kaystein » Mon May 06, 2019 5:31 am

Good.
Last edited by Kaystein on Fri May 10, 2019 6:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Novus America
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Postby Novus America » Mon May 06, 2019 5:37 am

Kaystein wrote:Good. Glad to see JP Morgan listened to my family member and their acquaintances. Glad I had a small part in this.


And now it will continue to support the regime despite its other abuses.
Dropping the worst abuses does not make regime good.

Under this law homosexuals will be beaten and jailed still, with stoning threatened but not enforced. And JP Morgan will gladly fund it.

Do not regard this as a victory, rather a sign of slight weakness from your opponent. Keep hitting them and keep hitting them hard.
Last edited by Novus America on Mon May 06, 2019 6:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Andsed » Mon May 06, 2019 5:49 am

Good. No one should ever be punished for having consenting sex the with another adult.
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Astoriya
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Postby Astoriya » Mon May 06, 2019 6:05 am

The Huskar Social Union wrote:Its good they reverse their decision on it, killing someone for their sexuality is absolutely fucking backwards and a load of bollocks. Hopefully they will decriminalize it in the future

As far as I can tell, it wasn't for simply being gay - I'm not trying to defend it, but it seems that even they realised it, with the speech focusing on "misconceptions"...

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Postby Ifreann » Mon May 06, 2019 6:11 am

So they're keeping the law, they're just not going to actually execute anyone?

That's something, I suppose.
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Astoriya
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Postby Astoriya » Mon May 06, 2019 6:20 am

Ifreann wrote:So they're keeping the law, they're just not going to actually execute anyone?

That's something, I suppose.

Unless they're willing to stop the 61-year-long moratorium on the death penalty a la Maldives, let's hope they don't.

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Novus America
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Postby Novus America » Mon May 06, 2019 6:26 am

Andsed wrote:Good. No one should ever be punished for having consenting sex the with another adult.


Now they just get massive jail sentences and beatings instead.
You are making a mistake to think this makes Brunei good, instead of slightly less horrible.
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Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. I support what is good for the country, which means I cannot support either party.

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Postby Hammer Britannia » Mon May 06, 2019 7:18 am

Novus America wrote:
Andsed wrote:Good. No one should ever be punished for having consenting sex the with another adult.


Now they just get massive jail sentences and beatings instead.
You are making a mistake to think this makes Brunei good, instead of slightly less horrible.

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Andsed
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Postby Andsed » Mon May 06, 2019 7:19 am

Novus America wrote:
Andsed wrote:Good. No one should ever be punished for having consenting sex the with another adult.


Now they just get massive jail sentences and beatings instead.
You are making a mistake to think this makes Brunei good, instead of slightly less horrible.

I never said this makes Brunei good though. I just said it was good they were not going to follow through with this punishment.
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Novus America
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Postby Novus America » Mon May 06, 2019 7:23 am

Andsed wrote:
Novus America wrote:
Now they just get massive jail sentences and beatings instead.
You are making a mistake to think this makes Brunei good, instead of slightly less horrible.

I never said this makes Brunei good though. I just said it was good they were not going to follow through with this punishment.


You did state,
“No one should ever be punished for having consenting sex the with another adult.” While this statement is true, people there will still be punished.
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Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. I support what is good for the country, which means I cannot support either party.

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Andsed
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Postby Andsed » Mon May 06, 2019 7:24 am

Novus America wrote:
Andsed wrote:I never said this makes Brunei good though. I just said it was good they were not going to follow through with this punishment.


You did state,
“No one should ever be punished for having consenting sex the with another adult.” While this statement is true, people there will still be punished.

Okay? How exactly does that translate to Brunei is not punishing gays anymore?
I do be tired


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Novus America
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Postby Novus America » Mon May 06, 2019 7:28 am

Andsed wrote:
Novus America wrote:
You did state,
“No one should ever be punished for having consenting sex the with another adult.” While this statement is true, people there will still be punished.

Okay? How exactly does that translate to Brunei is not punishing gays anymore?


Well it seemed to imply it. I am almost 100% sure the boycotts will now end, allowing them to get away with all their other crimes.
We should not be giving Brunei credit here.
We instead should see this as proof they are weak to economic pressure and hit that weakness twice as hard.

But of course we will not. The temporary Twitter cause will disappear and the literal beatings will continue.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. I support what is good for the country, which means I cannot support either party.

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Astoriya
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Postby Astoriya » Mon May 06, 2019 7:32 am

Novus America wrote:Well it seemed to imply it. I am almost 100% sure the boycotts will now end, allowing them to get away with all their other crimes.
We should not be giving Brunei credit here.
We instead should see this as proof they are weak to economic pressure and hit that weakness twice as hard.

But of course we will not. The temporary Twitter cause will disappear and the literal beatings will continue.

"All their other crimes" being?
And let's not forget that caning doesn't apply solely to gays - it applies to common criminals as well : a colonial relic, that.
Why not go after Malaysia or Singapore, then, since they both use caning?
Sounds quite double standards...

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Postby The New California Republic » Mon May 06, 2019 7:36 am

Ifreann wrote:So they're keeping the law, they're just not going to actually execute anyone?

That's something, I suppose.

It's a halfway measure that appeases the international community while not explicitly revoking it, as that would piss off the Islamists if he did. Keeping the law regarding gay sex on the books without enforcing it still sends out the message "it's bad" without actually doing anything about it.
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Novus America
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Postby Novus America » Mon May 06, 2019 9:08 am

Astoriya wrote:
Novus America wrote:Well it seemed to imply it. I am almost 100% sure the boycotts will now end, allowing them to get away with all their other crimes.
We should not be giving Brunei credit here.
We instead should see this as proof they are weak to economic pressure and hit that weakness twice as hard.

But of course we will not. The temporary Twitter cause will disappear and the literal beatings will continue.

"All their other crimes" being?
And let's not forget that caning doesn't apply solely to gays - it applies to common criminals as well : a colonial relic, that.
Why not go after Malaysia or Singapore, then, since they both use caning?
Sounds quite double standards...


Brunei has an atrocious record on political and human rights, not just this.

The problem is not canning per se, it is canning for consensual sex that is the problem.

And forget the double standards BS. Really that is just relative privation.
We do not have to fix all the problems everywhere in the world before we try to fix any.
Divide and conquer. Attack one at a time.

Right now we know Brunei is weak to economic pressure and we can get concessions from them.
So we should exploit that.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. I support what is good for the country, which means I cannot support either party.

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Khataiy
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Postby Khataiy » Mon May 06, 2019 9:38 am

They gave in like cowards not surprised

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Andsed
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Postby Andsed » Mon May 06, 2019 9:41 am

Khataiy wrote:They gave in like cowards not surprised

Oh so it is cowardice to be reasonable and not enforce a barbaric and oppressive punishment now?
Last edited by Andsed on Mon May 06, 2019 9:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
I do be tired


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