NationStates

Badb Catha wrote:

Bezkoshtovnya wrote:I am not going to deny there is corruption. But to say it is to the level that the United States is effectively a failed state is absurd.

Not to mention I do not see how carving it up along arbitrary ethnic lines is somehow going to improve things and not in fact just make things even worse.

How would it make things worse? And how is it "arbitrary"?

Kowani wrote:I can deny it by pointing out regionalism/ separatism and intranational division worldwide, the existence of communism and anarchism, (you know, anti state movements) as well as the growing movement towards the postnational age.

I see the problem now: you view the world from a materialistic standpoint. That is unfortunate.

A bunch of states founded entirely on ethnic lines existing right next to each other and left behind in the collapse of the national government and one of the most powerful economies in the world which would cause incredible chaos? I cant possibly see what could go wrong.

Not to mention, how exactly would these states be divided up? By ethnicity do you just mean white Americans, latino americans, and african americans? Or are there more specifics, like those of irish descent or German descent?

Badb Catha wrote:

Kowani wrote:I work with what exists.

Then you will forever be unenlightened to the natural world and all the beauty of it that we mere mortals cannot see. You have my sympathy.

If we “mere mortals” can’t see it, you can’t see it either.

Bezkoshtovnya wrote:

Badb Catha wrote:
How would it make things worse? And how is it "arbitrary"?



I see the problem now: you view the world from a materialistic standpoint. That is unfortunate.

A bunch of states founded entirely on ethnic lines existing right next to each other and left behind in the collapse of the national government and one of the most powerful economies in the world which would cause incredible chaos? I cant possibly see what could go wrong.

Not to mention, how exactly would these states be divided up? By ethnicity do you just mean white Americans, latino americans, and african americans? Or are there more specifics, like those of irish descent or German descent?

I disagree.

It will have to be partly racial, yes. The United States is too ethnically mixed for it to work any other way. But mostly it will account for local cultures and customs; particularly ones that are vastly distinctive from one another.

Badb Catha wrote:

Bezkoshtovnya wrote:A bunch of states founded entirely on ethnic lines existing right next to each other and left behind in the collapse of the national government and one of the most powerful economies in the world which would cause incredible chaos? I cant possibly see what could go wrong.

Not to mention, how exactly would these states be divided up? By ethnicity do you just mean white Americans, latino americans, and african americans? Or are there more specifics, like those of irish descent or German descent?

I disagree.

It will have to be partly racial, yes. The United States is too ethnically mixed for it to work any other way. But mostly it will account for local cultures and customs; particularly ones that are vastly distinctive from one another.

Yes I can see why you would think that replacing a stable and secure government for no reason with a bunch of fledgling and destabilized new race states in the aftermath of a world economic collapse due to the elimination of the United States could not possible lead to any sort of trouble.

You literally just said yourself why dividing the united states along ethnic lines is an absurd concept and not logical....

Bezkoshtovnya wrote:

Badb Catha wrote:
How would it make things worse? And how is it "arbitrary"?



I see the problem now: you view the world from a materialistic standpoint. That is unfortunate.

A bunch of states founded entirely on ethnic lines existing right next to each other and left behind in the collapse of the national government and one of the most powerful economies in the world which would cause incredible chaos? I cant possibly see what could go wrong.

Not to mention, how exactly would these states be divided up? By ethnicity do you just mean white Americans, latino americans, and african americans? Or are there more specifics, like those of irish descent or German descent?

It would be chaos. Once those Polish-English-Americans start conspiring together, all hell will break loose. It's only a matter of time before those people start invading my glorious German-Spanish-American ethnostate in an attempt to steal all of our national spirits.

Kowani wrote:

Badb Catha wrote:
Then you will forever be unenlightened to the natural world and all the beauty of it that we mere mortals cannot see. You have my sympathy.

If we “mere mortals” can’t see it, you can’t see it either.

It is not about seeing; I never said it was. It is about being in-tune with the world around you, feeling through your soul. The nation is a collection of people - the echoing of thousands or millions of souls - and it's spirit is made manifest in it's customs, culture, traditions, and faith. But these are merely the surface aspects of the national spirit; we cannot see, touch, smell, taste, or feel the true nature of it. It requires a certain state of mind; clarity.

Badb Catha wrote:

Kowani wrote:I work with what exists.

Then you will forever be unenlightened to the natural world and all the beauty of it that we mere mortals cannot see. You have my sympathy.

Oh get over yourself....Christ.

The Snazzylands wrote:

Bezkoshtovnya wrote:A bunch of states founded entirely on ethnic lines existing right next to each other and left behind in the collapse of the national government and one of the most powerful economies in the world which would cause incredible chaos? I cant possibly see what could go wrong.

Not to mention, how exactly would these states be divided up? By ethnicity do you just mean white Americans, latino americans, and african americans? Or are there more specifics, like those of irish descent or German descent?

It would be chaos. Once those Polish-English-Americans start conspiring together, all hell will break loose. It's only a matter of time before those people start invading my glorious German-Spanish-American ethnostate in an attempt to steal all of our national spirits.

All the while that Irish-Italian-Jewish state looks on from afar plotting to take advantage of the chaos.

No one deserves to be the appointed bully of the world.

It is expensive. thankless. and inproducti
ve

Bezkoshtovnya wrote:

Badb Catha wrote:
I disagree.

It will have to be partly racial, yes. The United States is too ethnically mixed for it to work any other way. But mostly it will account for local cultures and customs; particularly ones that are vastly distinctive from one another.

Yes I can see why you would think that replacing a stable and secure government for no reason with a bunch of fledgling and destabilized new race states in the aftermath of a world economic collapse due to the elimination of the United States could not possible lead to any sort of trouble.

You literally just said yourself why dividing the united states along ethnic lines is an absurd concept and not logical....

Another reason to despise Global Capitalism, yes.

How so?

The Snazzylands wrote:

Bezkoshtovnya wrote:A bunch of states founded entirely on ethnic lines existing right next to each other and left behind in the collapse of the national government and one of the most powerful economies in the world which would cause incredible chaos? I cant possibly see what could go wrong.

Not to mention, how exactly would these states be divided up? By ethnicity do you just mean white Americans, latino americans, and african americans? Or are there more specifics, like those of irish descent or German descent?

It would be chaos. Once those Polish-English-Americans start conspiring together, all hell will break loose. It's only a matter of time before those people start invading my glorious German-Spanish-American ethnostate in an attempt to steal all of our national spirits.

I will admit: I had a good laugh at this. Kudos.

Bezkoshtovnya wrote:

Badb Catha wrote:
Then you will forever be unenlightened to the natural world and all the beauty of it that we mere mortals cannot see. You have my sympathy.

Oh get over yourself....Christ.

I never said I was more important than anyone else. I am but one soul out of many; I merely see the world in a way many, unfortunately, do not. It is quite breathtaking to do so.

Badb Catha wrote:

Kowani wrote:If we “mere mortals” can’t see it, you can’t see it either.

It is not about seeing; I never said it was.

You literally said see. But that’s not important.

Badb Catha wrote:It is about being in-tune with the world around you, feeling through your soul.

Oh, look, something else that doesn’t exist.

Badb Catha wrote:The nation is a collection of people - the echoing of thousands or millions of souls - and it's spirit is made manifest in it's customs, culture, traditions, and faith.

Regionalism, separatism, artificial nation building, tribalism...

Badb Catha wrote:But these are merely the surface aspects of the national spirit; we cannot see, touch, smell, taste, or feel the true nature of it. It requires a certain state of mind; clarity.

Nice word salad.

Kowani wrote:

Badb Catha wrote:
It is not about seeing; I never said it was.

You literally said see. But that’s not important.

Badb Catha wrote:It is about being in-tune with the world around you, feeling through your soul.

Oh, look, something else that doesn’t exist.

Badb Catha wrote:The nation is a collection of people - the echoing of thousands or millions of souls - and it's spirit is made manifest in it's customs, culture, traditions, and faith.

Regionalism, separatism, artificial nation building, tribalism...

Badb Catha wrote:But these are merely the surface aspects of the national spirit; we cannot see, touch, smell, taste, or feel the true nature of it. It requires a certain state of mind; clarity.

Nice word salad.

There is clearly nothing to be gained in debating with you. I wish you well, all the same.

Badb Catha wrote:

Bezkoshtovnya wrote:Yes I can see why you would think that replacing a stable and secure government for no reason with a bunch of fledgling and destabilized new race states in the aftermath of a world economic collapse due to the elimination of the United States could not possible lead to any sort of trouble.

You literally just said yourself why dividing the united states along ethnic lines is an absurd concept and not logical....

Another reason to despise Global Capitalism, yes.

How so?

Bezkoshtovnya wrote:Oh get over yourself....Christ.

I never said I was more important than anyone else. I am but one soul out of many; I merely see the world in a way many, unfortunately, do not. It is quite breathtaking to do so.

Essentially shaking your fist and muttering at Global Capitalism utterly fails to address anything I said.

This bit:

The United States is too ethnically mixed

There you have it. The United States is heavily ethnically mixed, enough to the point where dividing it along ethnic lines makes little sense or practicality. So....why the fuck would you continue to try and advocate doing it?

"I'm not more important than anyone else, I just am superior to them for being able to do things they can't and they are worthy of my pity"

The Snazzylands wrote:

I believe X because Y.

But Y isn't real.

There is clearly nothing to be gained in debating with you.

To whom are you referring to?

Belinka wrote:Note: Try and stay on topic this time, my last thread on the military budget was locked because it got to off topic.

Many people believe that the American military does a bit to much regarding interventions. Some people believe that the US deserves this power, having built the world’s largest military under a democratic government.

I just want to hear some people’s thoughts on the subject, as many feel very strongly about it.

As I said above, please stay on topic. I don’t want another locked thread.

It's a burden, not some sort of honor. We ideally shouldn't HAVE to be, but we must to maintain world order. I don't see Britain or Canada or Germany jumping up and enthusiastically fighting terrorism or communist dictatorships across the world.

Bezkoshtovnya wrote:

The Snazzylands wrote:

I believe X because Y.

But Y isn't real.

There is clearly nothing to be gained in debating with you.

To whom are you referring to?

I believe it is about BC.

Bezkoshtovnya wrote:

Badb Catha wrote:
Another reason to despise Global Capitalism, yes.

How so?


I never said I was more important than anyone else. I am but one soul out of many; I merely see the world in a way many, unfortunately, do not. It is quite breathtaking to do so.

Essentially shaking your fist and muttering at Global Capitalism utterly fails to address anything I said.

This bit:

The United States is too ethnically mixed

There you have it. The United States is heavily ethnically mixed, enough to the point where dividing it along ethnic lines makes little sense or practicality. So....why the fuck would you continue to try and advocate doing it?

"I'm not more important than anyone else, I just am superior to them for being able to do things they can't and they are worthy of my pity"

It does not; I was conceding your point that it would destabilize the world. In hindsight, I did not think about that. Let us then assume that the world has moved beyond American Hegemonic Supremacy in this scenario in which the United States has been dissolved.

You are exaggerating how ethnically mixed it is. Looking at a map of American racial demographics paints a much simpler picture.

I never said I was superior; anyone can open their minds and hearts to the world around, they simply choose not to.

The Snazzylands wrote:

I believe X because Y.

But Y isn't real.

There is clearly nothing to be gained in debating with you.

I believe in something he does not; there is no debate to be had here. Neither of us will change our views. It is very evident where we stand spiritually by our signatures alone: opposing forces.

I do not think we should be the police of the world. We get involved with too many international affairs, and it costs us billions of dollars and numerous lives.

Badb Catha wrote:

Bezkoshtovnya wrote:Essentially shaking your fist and muttering at Global Capitalism utterly fails to address anything I said.

This bit:

There you have it. The United States is heavily ethnically mixed, enough to the point where dividing it along ethnic lines makes little sense or practicality. So....why the fuck would you continue to try and advocate doing it?

"I'm not more important than anyone else, I just am superior to them for being able to do things they can't and they are worthy of my pity"

It does not; I was conceding your point that it would destabilize the world. In hindsight, I did not think about that. Let us then assume that the world has moved beyond American Hegemonic Supremacy in this scenario in which the United States has been dissolved.

You are exaggerating how ethnically mixed it is. Looking at a map of American racial demographics paints a much simpler picture.

That isn't really how it works....that is going to be the reality of the situation. The collapse of the Unites States is going to have a disastrous impact in economic terms. You can't really wave it away in order to try and make what you are proposing more plausible by saying it isn't a factor. It is whether you like it or not.

Okay so first you say it is too ethnically mixed yourself to clearly or easily divide it into ethnic states and now you are going the opposite way and saying I am exaggerating saying it is too ethnically mixed...what? Fucking which one is it?

I ask again though, if the US is so ethnically mixed as to be pretty difficult to divide along those lines, why do it? Even if for the sake of argument it is not "too ethnically mixed" what is the point of doing it?

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:I do not think we should be the police of the world. We get involved with too many international affairs, and it costs us billions of dollars and numerous lives.

How’d that work out for Chamberlain?

Honestly, no country should be expected to or act as world police.

Bezkoshtovnya wrote:That isn't really how it works....that is going to be the reality of the situation. The collapse of the Unites States is going to have a disastrous impact in economic terms. You can't really wave it away in order to try and make what you are proposing more plausible by saying it isn't a factor. It is whether you like it or not.

Then you are operating under the false assumption that American Global Supremacy is eternal; a naive prospect.

Okay so first you say it is too ethnically mixed yourself to clearly or easily divide it into ethnic states and now you are going the opposite way and saying I am exaggerating saying it is too ethnically mixed...what? Fucking which one is it?

Apologies, it seems we've both confused race with ethnicity. Racial division would be more practical as ethnic division is virtually impossible; the distribution of ethnicity in the United States is too inconsistent to be viable, whereas the distribution of race is not. In my opinion ethnicity would be the preferable of the two, but it's simply not viable in America's case.

I ask again though, if the US is so ethnically mixed as to be pretty difficult to divide along those lines, why do it? Even if for the sake of argument it is not "too ethnically mixed" what is the point of doing it?

See above.

Badb Catha wrote:You are exaggerating how ethnically mixed it is. Looking at a map of American racial demographics paints a much simpler picture.

Simpler and inaccurate. Most of those maps only factor in majorities, not representing exactly how many people of each race live where, and racial dot maps have to get down to city level to be even marginally accurate, as 300 million dots on a map small enough to fit a computer screen, concentrated as the US population is, WILL result in dots being covered by other dots.

Jebslund wrote:

Badb Catha wrote:You are exaggerating how ethnically mixed it is. Looking at a map of American racial demographics paints a much simpler picture.

Simpler and inaccurate. Most of those maps only factor in majorities, not representing exactly how many people of each race live where, and racial dot maps have to get down to city level to be even marginally accurate, as 300 million dots on a map small enough to fit a computer screen, concentrated as the US population is, WILL result in dots being covered by other dots.

Majority representation is the overall aim, yes.