That was a special circumstance. We are not currently dealing with anything close to Hitler currently.
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by LiberNovusAmericae » Thu May 02, 2019 4:40 pm
by Jebslund » Thu May 02, 2019 4:42 pm
Badb Catha wrote:Bezkoshtovnya wrote:That isn't really how it works....that is going to be the reality of the situation. The collapse of the Unites States is going to have a disastrous impact in economic terms. You can't really wave it away in order to try and make what you are proposing more plausible by saying it isn't a factor. It is whether you like it or not.
Then you are operating under the false assumption that American Global Supremacy is eternal; a naive prospect.
by Thanatttynia » Thu May 02, 2019 4:43 pm
by Badb Catha » Thu May 02, 2019 4:43 pm
Jebslund wrote:Badb Catha wrote:
Then you are operating under the false assumption that American Global Supremacy is eternal; a naive prospect.
It's got nothing to do with American global supremecy and everything to do with the fact that you cannot simply delete one of the world's strongest economies, responsible for a double-digit percentage of its resource consumption (and, by that token, its business), in trillions of dollars of debt to the rest of the world's strongest economies, without causing economic collapse. If the US collapses, it, by default, defaults on all of its debts. That right there means people don't get paid, and not just here. All trade of American goods and resources, some of which exist/can be grown nowhere else, halts. All the money America spends on foreign goods? That goes bye-bye with the collapse of the dollar, whose value is largely governed by the faith of the people in the government (hence why terrorism, for example, impacts the stock market). Without government backing, all those American Dollars just became worthless, which has a ripple effect as governments that had trade with America find themselves short one of their richest customers. And that's just a *simplified* explanation.
by Jebslund » Thu May 02, 2019 4:44 pm
Badb Catha wrote:Jebslund wrote:Simpler and inaccurate. Most of those maps only factor in majorities, not representing exactly how many people of each race live where, and racial dot maps have to get down to city level to be even marginally accurate, as 300 million dots on a map small enough to fit a computer screen, concentrated as the US population is, WILL result in dots being covered by other dots.
Majority representation is the overall aim, yes.
by Badb Catha » Thu May 02, 2019 4:44 pm
by Jebslund » Thu May 02, 2019 4:45 pm
Badb Catha wrote:Jebslund wrote:
It's got nothing to do with American global supremecy and everything to do with the fact that you cannot simply delete one of the world's strongest economies, responsible for a double-digit percentage of its resource consumption (and, by that token, its business), in trillions of dollars of debt to the rest of the world's strongest economies, without causing economic collapse. If the US collapses, it, by default, defaults on all of its debts. That right there means people don't get paid, and not just here. All trade of American goods and resources, some of which exist/can be grown nowhere else, halts. All the money America spends on foreign goods? That goes bye-bye with the collapse of the dollar, whose value is largely governed by the faith of the people in the government (hence why terrorism, for example, impacts the stock market). Without government backing, all those American Dollars just became worthless, which has a ripple effect as governments that had trade with America find themselves short one of their richest customers. And that's just a *simplified* explanation.
Yes, and I realized this in hindsight. That is why I proposed a scenario in which this is no longer the case, which was effectively ignored and dismissed for no logical reason.
by Badb Catha » Thu May 02, 2019 4:45 pm
Jebslund wrote:Badb Catha wrote:
Majority representation is the overall aim, yes.
And yet those minority populations, which are FAR more significant than country-level racial maps can ever hope to accurately represent, make division along racial lines every bit as unfeasible as ethnic lines. You can't carve up America into ethnostates. It doesn't work that way any more.
by Federally United Germany » Thu May 02, 2019 4:45 pm
by Thanatttynia » Thu May 02, 2019 4:46 pm
by Bezkoshtovnya » Thu May 02, 2019 4:46 pm
Badb Catha wrote:Then you are operating under the false assumption that American Global Supremacy is eternal; a naive prospect.
Badb Catha wrote:Apologies, it seems we've both confused race with ethnicity. Racial division would be more practical as ethnic division is virtually impossible; the distribution of ethnicity in the United States is too inconsistent to be viable, whereas the distribution of race is not. In my opinion ethnicity would be the preferable of the two, but it's simply not viable in America's case.
Badb Catha wrote:See above.
Dante Alighieri wrote:There is no greater sorrow than to recall happiness in times of misery
Charlie Chaplin wrote:Nothing is permanent in this wicked world, not even our troubles.
by Badb Catha » Thu May 02, 2019 4:46 pm
Jebslund wrote:Badb Catha wrote:
Yes, and I realized this in hindsight. That is why I proposed a scenario in which this is no longer the case, which was effectively ignored and dismissed for no logical reason.
Because your scenario is as realistic as saying, "Well, how about if there wasn't gravity? THEN would Superman be able to fly?".
by Bezkoshtovnya » Thu May 02, 2019 4:48 pm
Badb Catha wrote:Jebslund wrote:And yet those minority populations, which are FAR more significant than country-level racial maps can ever hope to accurately represent, make division along racial lines every bit as unfeasible as ethnic lines. You can't carve up America into ethnostates. It doesn't work that way any more.
Which is why culture would take precedent in division.
Dante Alighieri wrote:There is no greater sorrow than to recall happiness in times of misery
Charlie Chaplin wrote:Nothing is permanent in this wicked world, not even our troubles.
by LiberNovusAmericae » Thu May 02, 2019 4:48 pm
by Thanatttynia » Thu May 02, 2019 4:50 pm
by Badb Catha » Thu May 02, 2019 4:51 pm
Bezkoshtovnya wrote:Badb Catha wrote:Then you are operating under the false assumption that American Global Supremacy is eternal; a naive prospect.
No I am not, I am going under the assumption that this is supposed to happen in the realtively near future, and the US will continue to be a major economic factor well into the near future, even if it is not the most powerful economy anymore.
I mean it is much more clearly defined than Ethnicity that is fore sure...but that doesn't really remove the possibility of massive issues arising from new race states in the previously multicultural US.
You explained that it is divided by race and not ethnicity above. You did nothing to explain WHY this should be done.
by Jebslund » Thu May 02, 2019 4:51 pm
by Badb Catha » Thu May 02, 2019 4:52 pm
by Badb Catha » Thu May 02, 2019 4:53 pm
Jebslund wrote:Badb Catha wrote:
No, what is unrealistic is insinuating that American Global Supremacy is eternal - which you have effectively done.
No, I have not. Again, this has nothing to do with American Global SupremacyTM. This is a matter of the US having become a linchpin of the global economy due to the money it owes and the trade it does. Even if other countries are richer, the US is still a major factor, and still would need to get its shit in order just to get rid of half the problem your scenario of just deleting the US presents. Essentially, the US will collapse long before the conditions in which its collapse wouldn't cause an economic cascade failure come to pass, simply because of the way the economics game is played.
by Thanatttynia » Thu May 02, 2019 4:55 pm
by Bezkoshtovnya » Thu May 02, 2019 4:58 pm
Badb Catha wrote:
I never said anything about the "near future".
Badb Catha wrote:Which is why culture would take precedent over race.
Badb Catha wrote:Why should the United States be dissolved, you mean?
Dante Alighieri wrote:There is no greater sorrow than to recall happiness in times of misery
Charlie Chaplin wrote:Nothing is permanent in this wicked world, not even our troubles.
by Badb Catha » Thu May 02, 2019 4:58 pm
Thanatttynia wrote:Badb Catha wrote:
I'd disagree. Hitler wanted Jews removed from Germany first, and when that no longer became viable he opted for their extermination. China is simply reeducating them into accepting Atheism.
So... perilously close to Hitler pre-the Final Solution. I'd rather not give the CCP the time to come up with anything like that if their efforts at re-education are not successful
by Guelder » Thu May 02, 2019 5:02 pm
by Bezkoshtovnya » Thu May 02, 2019 5:04 pm
Guelder wrote:The USA was always been the country who judge over other countries, most companies in Europe are originally from the USA, so I think it's a good thing, they also play part in economics of some countries, I don't see any negativity in it
Dante Alighieri wrote:There is no greater sorrow than to recall happiness in times of misery
Charlie Chaplin wrote:Nothing is permanent in this wicked world, not even our troubles.
by Thanatttynia » Thu May 02, 2019 5:04 pm
Badb Catha wrote:Thanatttynia wrote:So... perilously close to Hitler pre-the Final Solution. I'd rather not give the CCP the time to come up with anything like that if their efforts at re-education are not successful
I fail to see how. Hitler wanted the Jews deported; China does not care about the presence of the Uyghurs, it merely wants to remove their religion. Given the situation in Xinjiang Province it is understandable why. Uyghurs are not being used as a scapegoat, China is simply trying to remove the risk of further radicalization of Muslims by removing the presence of Islam entirely. The fact they are doing so non-violently is actually quite surprising.
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