Army veteran Muslim convert arrested for terrorist plot

[Vassenor]

Not Islam. Just some people look to radicals for their views.

If that was true then why are most converts such as myself peaceful?

Of course, you're welcome to pretend that the fact that Islamic terrorism now constitutes a majority of global terrorism totally has nothing to do with Islam.

Just like you're pretending that the majority of Islamic adherents who don't commit acts of terrorism don't exist.

[Yusseria]

Of course, you're welcome to pretend that the fact that Islamic terrorism now constitutes a majority of global terrorism totally has nothing to do with Islam.

Just like you're pretending that the majority of Islamic adherents who don't commit acts of terrorism don't exist.

Keep on lying, Vass. It's not like people can read shit I posted recently.

I think that fallacy more applies to your performance in here today, don't you think?

I don't "pretend". I have no reason to pretend to ignore atrocities in the world. Dodging questions is in itself dishonest.

Yet you still do anyway considering that you refuse to acknowledge that the religion of these terrorists might be playing a role in their violence.

The Christian world went through the Reformation and the Enlightenment. Islam has gone through no such reformation. It's a backwards religion and the violence it produces is indicative of that.

I'm certain most converts are peaceful. That does little to change the fact that Islam produces a great deal of violence, and even many of the peaceful worshippers still hold vile views with regard to Sharia.

[Jolthig]

I think that fallacy more applies to your performance in here today, don't you think?

I don't "pretend". I have no reason to pretend to ignore atrocities in the world. Dodging questions is in itself dishonest.

Yet you still do anyway considering that you refuse to acknowledge that the religion of these terrorists might be playing a role in their violence.

The Christian world went through the Reformation and the Enlightenment. Islam has gone through no such reformation. It's a backwards religion and the violence it produces is indicative of that.

I'm certain most converts are peaceful. That does little to change the fact that Islam produces a great deal of violence, and even many of the peaceful worshippers still hold vile views with regard to Sharia.

Okay, thank you for finally answering my question. Much appreciated.

Anyway, no I do not pretend. What you're doing here, Yusseria, committing the fallacy of "appeal to motive". I am not pretending that atrocities don't happen because of Muslim terrorists. You completely exaggerated my statements, and you are putting words and views in my mouth that I've never stated nor did I demonstrate by my actions that I did. You are completely mistaken to say that it is Islam itself that drives their extreme motives. What you haven't acknowledged in here is that Islam is divided into several sects. To put all of the community of Islam with one extreme views, is a strawman, Yusserna. This is a complete inaccurate interpretation of the statistics of Islamic views. What do we have? We have 73 Islamic sects with different interpretations of the Holy Quran, hadith, and tafsirs. You really can't throw the Wahhabist interpretation for Islam itself and think that we're going to take that as a valid argument.

Regarding reform, as the European Christians with the Renaissance: You forget one aspect of Islamic history. Does the term, "Islamic Golden Age" ring a bell to you? Where in the Islamic world, there were several advancements in knowledge such as scholarship of the Islamic faith, philosophy, and scientific advancements. So yes, for a while, the Ummah did in fact prosper. It was only after the death of Ibn Rushd, an Islamic scholar from Spain, who ironically was responsible for the Renaissance in the first place, was when the Islamic world went down in education. This is attributed to the fact that these nations paid no heed to educating their youth properly. Then, comes the deaths of many scholars as well. Much of youths in the middle east joining terrorists groups can be attributed to the facts that many of them haven't been educated properly, and are prone to indoctrination and manipulation by leaders of terrorist groups. Then, you have anger against foreign interference on top of that. Not that it justifies these people in anyway, but with the sorry state of the Middle East as compared to the west, it is their fault alone is why they are at rock bottom. Not Islam as I've demonstrated. As a matter in fact, Muhamamd repeatedly said Musloms should search for knowledge and educate themselves as much as possible. Which over a few centuries, helped to lead to the Islamic golden age. You are completely historically inaccurate.

Good that you acknowledge many converts to be peaceful. Perhaps, you should look into why they have those views in the first place? Yes, there are non-violent Salafists with strict views indeed, but as I've demonstrated earlier with numerous Islamic sects, your claims hold absolutely no water. Besides, the point, my sect Ahmadiyya, is rapidly growing, and gaining a foothold in Africa and the West. We don't advocate for violence views nor theocracy. We actually believe in separation of masjid and state, and we respect the views of other Faith's and non faiths. We are a reformist group seeking to help Muslims find the true faith, but also show the message of the Messiah, our founder, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, to the globe.

[Jolthig]

Just like you're pretending that the majority of Islamic adherents who don't commit acts of terrorism don't exist.

Keep on lying, Vass. It's not like people can read shit I posted recently.

Yet you still do anyway considering that you refuse to acknowledge that the religion of these terrorists might be playing a role in their violence.

The Christian world went through the Reformation and the Enlightenment. Islam has gone through no such reformation. It's a backwards religion and the violence it produces is indicative of that.

I'm certain most converts are peaceful. That does little to change the fact that Islam produces a great deal of violence, and even many of the peaceful worshippers still hold vile views with regard to Sharia.

Pretending to read other people's minds doesn't make you correct.

[Yusseria]

Yet you still do anyway considering that you refuse to acknowledge that the religion of these terrorists might be playing a role in their violence.

The Christian world went through the Reformation and the Enlightenment. Islam has gone through no such reformation. It's a backwards religion and the violence it produces is indicative of that.

I'm certain most converts are peaceful. That does little to change the fact that Islam produces a great deal of violence, and even many of the peaceful worshippers still hold vile views with regard to Sharia.

Okay, thank you for finally answering my question. Much appreciated.

Anyway, no I do not pretend. What you're doing here, Yusseria, committing the fallacy of "appeal to motive". I am not pretending that atrocities don't happen because of Muslim terrorists. You completely exaggerated my statements, and you are putting words and views in my mouth that I've never stated nor did I demonstrate by my actions that I did. You are completely mistaken to say that it is Islam itself that drives their extreme motives. What you haven't acknowledged in here is that Islam is divided into several sects. To put all of the community of Islam with one extreme views, is a strawman, Yusserna. This is a complete inaccurate interpretation of the statistics of Islamic views. What do we have? We have 73 Islamic sects with different interpretations of the Holy Quran, hadith, and tafsirs. You really can't throw the Wahhabist interpretation for Islam itself and think that we're going to take that as a valid argument.

I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying your religion has not modernized at all, which is completely true.

Regarding reform, as the European Christians with the Renaissance: You forget one aspect of Islamic history. Does the term, "Islamic Golden Age" ring a bell to you? Where in the Islamic world, there were several advancements in knowledge such as scholarship of the Islamic faith, philosophy, and scientific advancements.

Yes, it does. And guess what? It ended over 1,000 years ago. Perhaps Islam was a modern religion over a millennia ago.

It's not anymore.

So yes, for a while, the Ummah did in fact prosper. It was only after the death of Ibn Rushd, an Islamic scholar from Spain, who ironically was responsible for the Renaissance in the first place, was when the Islamic world went down in education. This is attributed to the fact that these nations paid no heed to educating their youth properly. Then, comes the deaths of many scholars as well. Much of youths in the middle east joining terrorists groups can be attributed to the facts that many of them haven't been educated properly, and are prone to indoctrination and manipulation by leaders of terrorist groups. Then, you have anger against foreign interference on top of that. Not that it justifies these people in anyway, but with the sorry state of the Middle East as compared to the west, it is their fault alone is why they are at rock bottom. Not Islam as I've demonstrated. As a matter in fact, Muhamamd repeatedly said Musloms should search for knowledge and educate themselves as much as possible. Which over a few centuries, helped to lead to the Islamic golden age. You are completely historically inaccurate.

And perhaps it would help the Muslim world if their religion modernized.

Good that you acknowledge many converts to be peaceful. Perhaps, you should look into why they have those views in the first place? Yes, there are non-violent Salafists with strict views indeed, but as I've demonstrated earlier with numerous Islamic sects, your claims hold absolutely no water. Besides, the point, my sect Ahmadiyya, is rapidly growing, and gaining a foothold in Africa and the West. We don't advocate for violence views nor theocracy. We actually believe in separation of masjid and state, and we respect the views of other Faith's and non faiths. We are a reformist group seeking to help Muslims find the true faith, but also show the message of the Messiah, our founder, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, to the globe.

Yes, I'm sure there's many philosophical and misanthropic reasons for why many Muslims think executing gays is acceptable.

[Jolthig]

Okay, thank you for finally answering my question. Much appreciated.

Anyway, no I do not pretend. What you're doing here, Yusseria, committing the fallacy of "appeal to motive". I am not pretending that atrocities don't happen because of Muslim terrorists. You completely exaggerated my statements, and you are putting words and views in my mouth that I've never stated nor did I demonstrate by my actions that I did. You are completely mistaken to say that it is Islam itself that drives their extreme motives. What you haven't acknowledged in here is that Islam is divided into several sects. To put all of the community of Islam with one extreme views, is a strawman, Yusserna. This is a complete inaccurate interpretation of the statistics of Islamic views. What do we have? We have 73 Islamic sects with different interpretations of the Holy Quran, hadith, and tafsirs. You really can't throw the Wahhabist interpretation for Islam itself and think that we're going to take that as a valid argument.

I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying your religion has not modernized at all, which is completely true.

Regarding reform, as the European Christians with the Renaissance: You forget one aspect of Islamic history. Does the term, "Islamic Golden Age" ring a bell to you? Where in the Islamic world, there were several advancements in knowledge such as scholarship of the Islamic faith, philosophy, and scientific advancements.

Yes, it does. And guess what? It ended over 1,000 years ago. Perhaps Islam was a modern religion over a millennia ago.

It's not anymore.

So yes, for a while, the Ummah did in fact prosper. It was only after the death of Ibn Rushd, an Islamic scholar from Spain, who ironically was responsible for the Renaissance in the first place, was when the Islamic world went down in education. This is attributed to the fact that these nations paid no heed to educating their youth properly. Then, comes the deaths of many scholars as well. Much of youths in the middle east joining terrorists groups can be attributed to the facts that many of them haven't been educated properly, and are prone to indoctrination and manipulation by leaders of terrorist groups. Then, you have anger against foreign interference on top of that. Not that it justifies these people in anyway, but with the sorry state of the Middle East as compared to the west, it is their fault alone is why they are at rock bottom. Not Islam as I've demonstrated. As a matter in fact, Muhamamd repeatedly said Musloms should search for knowledge and educate themselves as much as possible. Which over a few centuries, helped to lead to the Islamic golden age. You are completely historically inaccurate.

And perhaps it would help the Muslim world if their religion modernized.

Good that you acknowledge many converts to be peaceful. Perhaps, you should look into why they have those views in the first place? Yes, there are non-violent Salafists with strict views indeed, but as I've demonstrated earlier with numerous Islamic sects, your claims hold absolutely no water. Besides, the point, my sect Ahmadiyya, is rapidly growing, and gaining a foothold in Africa and the West. We don't advocate for violence views nor theocracy. We actually believe in separation of masjid and state, and we respect the views of other Faith's and non faiths. We are a reformist group seeking to help Muslims find the true faith, but also show the message of the Messiah, our founder, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, to the globe.

Yes, I'm sure there's many philosophical and misanthropic reasons for why many Muslims think executing gays is acceptable.

Good. Now we agree that the Muslims should return to the Golden age. Now that's out of the way. (Ignoring the other nonsense you've posted I've already answered)

Now we're discussing statistics: please show us how many muslims hold those views. Especially converts.

[Jolthig]

And I like how you earlier said Islam is barbaric and never modernized, only to admit that the golden age did in fact happen and Islam was modern-like 1000 years ago.

[The Alma Mater]

And I like how you earlier said Islam is barbaric and never modernized, only to admit that the golden age did in fact happen and Islam was modern-like 1000 years ago.

Is that inaccurate then ? Islam developed in one of the most developed regions of the world with some of the brightest people. Bringing those together caused a golden age followed by a thousands years of decline.

Nothing in there suggests Islam ever modernised - it just brought modern people together, benefitted from that for a while and then de-modernised.

[Jolthig]

And I like how you earlier said Islam is barbaric and never modernized, only to admit that the golden age did in fact happen and Islam was modern-like 1000 years ago.

Is that inaccurate then ? Islam developed in one of the most developed regions of the world with some of the brightest people. Bringing those together caused a golden age followed by a thousands years of decline.

Nothing in there suggests Islam ever modernised - it just brought modern people together, benefitted from that for a while and then de-modernised.

Yes.

"Islam developed in one of the most developed regions of the world with some of the brightest people."

...

You do know Arabia is in the middle of nowhere right? With hardly any resources whatsoever; being dependent on other nations for imported goods, alongside literacy hardly being a thing in Arabia around that time.

Actually, yes it does as I've demonstrated in my arguments. If you think I am in the wrong, then please show historical evidence and counters the points I made to Yuss earlier today.

[Galloism]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-47313724

According to CBS, his lawyers called his gun collection "modest at best" and said the charges were "histrionic and "without substance".

And that's just the stuff the police have found. I am willing to bet that the guy had a stash somewhere that is equal or greater than the one found at his house.

Unironically I know quite a few people with more arms than that.

[Washington Resistance Army]

This is your daily reminder that most of the so called advancements in science and philosophy that occurred in the Islamic Golden Age were just rehashes of things the Greeks or other groups had already done.

[Yusseria]

And I like how you earlier said Islam is barbaric and never modernized, only to admit that the golden age did in fact happen and Islam was modern-like 1000 years ago.

Yeah... that doesn't conflict with what I said. I'm saying it's not modern anymore.

[Jolthig]

This is your daily reminder that most of the so called advancements in science and philosophy that occurred in the Islamic Golden Age were just rehashes of things the Greeks or other groups had already done.

And improved. None of what you said refutes what I said given that i specifically said that Muhammad encouraged the muslims to find knowledge wherever they can find it. Now, does that mean that exactly led to the Islamic golden age? No, but it can give one the idea of an inspiration for the Muslims.

And I like how you earlier said Islam is barbaric and never modernized, only to admit that the golden age did in fact happen and Islam was modern-like 1000 years ago.

Yeah... that doesn't conflict with what I said. I'm saying it's not modern anymore.

Irrelevant. When you said:

I think that fallacy more applies to your performance in here today, don't you think?

I don't "pretend". I have no reason to pretend to ignore atrocities in the world. Dodging questions is in itself dishonest.

Yet you still do anyway considering that you refuse to acknowledge that the religion of these terrorists might be playing a role in their violence.

The Christian world went through the Reformation and the Enlightenment. Islam has gone through no such reformation. It's a backwards religion and the violence it produces is indicative of that.

I'm certain most converts are peaceful. That does little to change the fact that Islam produces a great deal of violence, and even many of the peaceful worshippers still hold vile views with regard to Sharia.

The underlined right here, after being told that Islam had its golden age, you then changed your argument and said Islam isn't modern anymore. So basically what you're doing is making excuses for your false claims after being caught for being inaccurate in your statements and yet you aren't wanting to admit you're wrong.

[GrarG]

Further evidence that any and all Westerners who convert to Muhammadanism should be viewed with great suspicion, it does seem to attract the worst of us; the pathologically angry, the criminal and the self-hating degenerate. No reflection intended on the poor souls born into it.

I'm a convert to Ahmadiyya Islam, one of the most peaceful sects in Islam, if not the most peaceful sect of them all. Does that mean I should be viewed with suspicion? There are plenty of converts to Islam that don't commit violence and are peaceful.

It can also attract the best in us as Islam advocates for serving the poor and needy.

Yes, you should, I'm sorry but I don't understand every aspect of your particular sect... although I understand mainstream Sunnis consider you apostates so you must be doing something right. Perhaps you should pull away from the label of Muslim and consider yourselves a separate religion entirely? See like an odd choice on your part anyway, I'm sure you're sick of explaining your choice however so I won't presume to ask... but if you're drawn hopeless causes I'd certainly recommend Christianity.

As to the second point; Islam DEMANDS serving the poor and needy (to a specified extent), implying punishment for failure to do so and thus removing any spiritual or altruistic component. Same story with prayer and fasting, the fact that it is demanded makes the act spiritually meaningless and stunts the spiritual growth of believers.

Since the trend is definitely towards more such converts we can only expect more attempts (and successful ones) in future. A ban on evangelizing may be nice but unenforceable and sadly would never be effective. Of course in the US it would also be unconstitutional but we don't have the problem in Europe.

A ban on evangelicalism of Islam would be as unjust as banning evangelicalism of christianity. So as long as no one is seeking to harm or advocating for harm of people, there is absolutely no problem.



Again, there are way more peaceful converts than violent ones.

I can't deny the latter, there are generally more peaceful people than violent people, at least in times of peace and plenty.

However, I consider Islam itself to be a form of harm, so evangelizing it is harmful, not just to the spiritual health of those who fall for it but also to their (in this case only potential) victims. I've seen too many amazing people suffer horrible self-loathing and depression because they cannot live up to the inhumane demands of Islam to consider it anything BUT harmful. In any case, I wasn't saying evangelizing should be banned, just expressing a wish we could stop it somehow.

Also, please capitalize Christianity, respect is a two-way street.

[GrarG]

Further evidence that any and all Westerners who convert to Muhammadanism should be viewed with great suspicion, it does seem to attract the worst of us; the pathologically angry, the criminal and the self-hating degenerate. No reflection intended on the poor souls born into it.

Since the trend is definitely towards more such converts we can only expect more attempts (and successful ones) in future. A ban on evangelizing may be nice but unenforceable and sadly would never be effective. Of course in the US it would also be unconstitutional but we don't have the problem in Europe.

GrarG the term Muhammadanism is derogatory towards Muslims and is considered trolling and as such you get an *unofficial warning for trolling*

I don't really understand how it can be considered trolling but I'll refrain from using the term as requested.

[Greed and Death]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-47313724

According to CBS, his lawyers called his gun collection "modest at best" and said the charges were "histrionic and "without substance".

And that's just the stuff the police have found. I am willing to bet that the guy had a stash somewhere that is equal or greater than the one found at his house.

It is, I have about 10 times that number.

[The Alma Mater]

According to CBS, his lawyers called his gun collection "modest at best" and said the charges were "histrionic and "without substance".

And that's just the stuff the police have found. I am willing to bet that the guy had a stash somewhere that is equal or greater than the one found at his house.

It is, I have about 10 times that number.

This is you ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45glq7huJJc

[Greed and Death]

It is, I have about 10 times that number.

This is you ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45glq7huJJc

If you hunt everything you can you will need more than 5 full sized rifles and 2 shotguns. 2 Revolvers makes sense one for on your nightstand for home defense and a snubnose as a backup weapon on your ankle.

For the smaller rifles (sometimes called assault) three makes sense 1 is for one chambered to .223 one for 5.56 and the last one is for 7.62 (AK family).

The 4 Semi automatic handguns is for different calibers, he likely has a .22 just because it is the cheapest thing to shoot, a 9mm and .45 as they are the most useful (my opinion, and maybe a something ridiculous like a desert eagle .50 just because why not?

[Shanhwa]

This is you ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45glq7huJJc

If you hunt everything you can you will need more than 5 full sized rifles and 2 shotguns. 2 Revolvers makes sense one for on your nightstand for home defense and a snubnose as a backup weapon on your ankle.

For the smaller rifles (sometimes called assault) three makes sense 1 is for one chambered to .223 one for 5.56 and the last one is for 7.62 (AK family).

The 4 Semi automatic handguns is for different calibers, he likely has a .22 just because it is the cheapest thing to shoot, a 9mm and .45 as they are the most useful (my opinion, and maybe a something ridiculous like a desert eagle .50 just because why not?

Why a revolver for home defense though? Personal preference?

I don’t see the sensibility in limiting yourself with ammunition count if someone is threatening your life, even though it could potentially be for a more powerful round.

[Greed and Death]

If you hunt everything you can you will need more than 5 full sized rifles and 2 shotguns. 2 Revolvers makes sense one for on your nightstand for home defense and a snubnose as a backup weapon on your ankle.

For the smaller rifles (sometimes called assault) three makes sense 1 is for one chambered to .223 one for 5.56 and the last one is for 7.62 (AK family).

The 4 Semi automatic handguns is for different calibers, he likely has a .22 just because it is the cheapest thing to shoot, a 9mm and .45 as they are the most useful (my opinion, and maybe a something ridiculous like a desert eagle .50 just because why not?

Why a revolver for home defense though? Personal preference?

I don’t see the sensibility in limiting yourself with ammunition count if someone is threatening your life, even though it could potentially be for a more powerful round.

Because you can store a revolver loaded for months or even years at a time and it will still fire. Store a Semi Automatic for years at a time and it will likely jam as the springs in the magazine have been compressed for too long.

[Grinning Dragon]

Why a revolver for home defense though? Personal preference?

I don’t see the sensibility in limiting yourself with ammunition count if someone is threatening your life, even though it could potentially be for a more powerful round.

Because you can store a revolver loaded for months or even years at a time and it will still fire. Store a Semi Automatic for years at a time and it will likely jam as the springs in the magazine have been compressed for too long.

The underlined is somewhat a myth/misleading. What causes spring steel to weaken is the constant compact/relax action. Keeping magazines loaded for an extended period of time is fine.

[Nea Byzantia]

What an idiot. Getting revenge in California for something that happened in New Zealand. Because clearly, the mighty Californian White Supremacists have done soooo many mean things to Muslims until this point. Way to make some Muslims a target in California - dumbass. Can we have this guy tortured by the Jackass Crew, with all funds going to aid the Muslim Mosques in California?

But what if he was like the guy in New Zealand, who knew what he was doing, and wanted to promote violence? There are some evil people who just want to watch the World burn; and make themselves Servants of Chaos. Not even because they necessarily have any goal in mind, but just because they're sick, sadistic f*cks with bloodlust. Its very difficult for sane, normal people to understand such monsters, because we do things for rational reasons and we haven't gone off the cliff into deep, nihilistic despair. I don't think its a coincidence that we're seeing an increasingly large amount of shit like this.

I'm very worried we're going to see this shit keep escalating until it finally explodes. I think there's a lot of pent-up hate in Society (I can speak for Western Society, anyways), a lot of malaise, and the main issue is that the Authorities are pretending that everything is fine, and just kicking the can down the road. At the same time, they're silencing people with certain points if view; pushing them increasingly into a corner, essentially; which is going to lead to said people lashing out and committing acts of violence. Of course, this leads to a feedback loop, where the other side responds (feeling under attack), and so you have tit-for-tat, only with gradual escalation. I'm worried that that's just going keep going on; the bloodshed and violence will continue (and worsen) until eventually, one or both sides agree to come to some sort of a compromise, or one side is totally defeated. And I'm afraid it could get a lot worse before it gets better.

Am I out to lunch, or do others see what I see?

[Shanhwa]

What an idiot. Getting revenge in California for something that happened in New Zealand. Because clearly, the mighty Californian White Supremacists have done soooo many mean things to Muslims until this point. Way to make some Muslims a target in California - dumbass. Can we have this guy tortured by the Jackass Crew, with all funds going to aid the Muslim Mosques in California?

But what if he was like the guy in New Zealand, who knew what he was doing, and wanted to promote violence? There are some evil people who just want to watch the World burn; and make themselves Servants of Chaos. Not even because they necessarily have any goal in mind, but just because they're sick, sadistic f*cks with bloodlust. Its very difficult for sane, normal people to understand such monsters, because we do things for rational reasons and we haven't gone off the cliff into deep, nihilistic despair. I don't think its a coincidence that we're seeing an increasingly large amount of shit like this.

ABANDON REASON, KNOW ONLY WAR

[Bear Stearns]

We've got a tit-for-tat on our hands. Next move, a mosque in Latin America is blown up, followed by an actual arson attack on the Notre Dame cathedral.

[Nea Byzantia]

But what if he was like the guy in New Zealand, who knew what he was doing, and wanted to promote violence? There are some evil people who just want to watch the World burn; and make themselves Servants of Chaos. Not even because they necessarily have any goal in mind, but just because they're sick, sadistic f*cks with bloodlust. Its very difficult for sane, normal people to understand such monsters, because we do things for rational reasons and we haven't gone off the cliff into deep, nihilistic despair. I don't think its a coincidence that we're seeing an increasingly large amount of shit like this.

ABANDON REASON, KNOW ONLY WAR

I think the underlying problem behind incidents like this is nothing new, really. Its Identity Politics. It doesn't matter who starts it, or why; but when a multi-ethnic, multi-confessional Empire or Nation starts playing Identity Politics, its never ends well. The moment the different ethnic or confessional groups within your Nation begin to gain ethnic consciousness, at the expense of the National or Imperial identity, its only a matter of time before squabbling, factionalism and eventually violence, take place - and usually the overarching Empire or Nation doesn't survive such bloodbaths; at least not as an intact entity. Look at what happened to the Austro-Hungarian Empire, the Ottoman Empire, Yugoslavia, etc. Look at What tore these countries and empires apart was when one or the other ethnic groups within began to play Identity Politics. Of course, multi-ethnic and multi-confessional empires that don't play Identity Politics; or don't tolerate such games; don't collapse via Balkanization and inter-ethnic, inter-religious genocidal shit-shows. Russia, for example, has been a multi-ethnic, multi-religious Empire for centuries. Why haven't they Balkanized into smaller pieces? The answer is very simple, because they don't play Identity Politics; and they don't tolerate sh*t like that.

America, on the other hand - or rather certain groups within it - are obsessed with Race; and they've come to label certain groups as "Victims" and another particular group as "Oppressors". Of course, those numb-skulls (who are ironically usually members of the Intelligentsia and Educated Class) fail to see that if you get some groups to start playing the vicious game of Identity Politics, it is only a matter of time before everybody - including the groups you villainize - decide to start playing too. And that's when sh*t gets ugly. If America doesn't cut this crap out real soon, there will be hell to pay. It may already be too late.