Alt-right. A terrorist movement in the making?

[West Leas Oros 2]

Yes, actually. One does not simply become one through fairy magic. we need to analyze this from a psychological and sociological perspective. The problem is that no tactic thus far has yet to actually defeat the idea behind the shitheadery

Because many refuse to acknowledge it may be a reaction to legitimate grievances, since their worldview is constructed to place all social ills and vice as rooted in whites and males while absolving minorities and women of wrongdoing by transferring their culpability onto their ideological scapegoat.

Which ironically, is exactly the way the Alt-Right's worldview but merely with the roles reversed. I'd hardly consider the Alt-Right's reaction to be measured or sensible. Alienation is no reason to justify reactionary behaviors.

[Fedel]

Greater Germany mentioned the sources I posted and pointed out that there have been 13 deaths in the US as a result of left wing terrorism since 2016. He wondered aloud what the alt right’s stats were in that time. Between Charlottesville, the Pittsburgh synagogue shooting, and the Poway synagogue shooting? Thirteen. Off the top of my head. And that’s just the US.
So even if you cherrypicked your stats to be as generous to the right as possible? Right wing terrorism is just as prevalent as left wing terrorism over the last few years.

I mean, the figure you mentioned for the leftwing was "just in the US" so I'm not really sure why you felt the need to make the distinction tbh.

I have no doubt they think they’re motivated by something but that doesn’t mean what they’re motivated by is real. Because I have news for you. There’s no logical reason to shoot up a synagogue. No “dem Jews” conspiracy theories are logical, and none of them justify the violence we’ve seen.

Of course not. But that doesn't take away the fact that they believe the rationale they're using to commit these acts to some extent. It's important we find out why that is and what we can do to fix it.

I do take issue with the validity of your statement, because you seem to be trying to assert that the antisemitic conspiracy theories these shooters cite are valid enough to be reacted to.

That's now what I'm saying. I'm saying that the people who carry out these acts clearly believe they're valid enough to be reacted to.

Of course they think they’re real, that’s why they did what they did. Rational people who know they’re bunk, however, don’t need to humour them.

Of course not. They do need to try to understand the rationale behind the act if they hope to prevent it though. Which is my point.

The only people I hate are people who wish to do harm to myself and my loved ones.

And unfortunately, I think you might be confusing who wants to do that.

Then they can say so and clear up any misunderstanding.

True enough, but until then, I think the healthiest thing for YOU would be to give them the benefit of the doubt.

[West Leas Oros 2]

Yes, actually. One does not simply become one through fairy magic. we need to analyze this from a psychological and sociological perspective. The problem is that no tactic thus far has yet to actually defeat the idea behind the shitheadery

Because many refuse to acknowledge it may be a reaction to legitimate grievances, since their worldview is constructed to place all social ills and vice as rooted in whites and males while absolving minorities and women of wrongdoing by transferring their culpability onto their ideological scapegoat.

The alt-right primarily doesn't describe a just society as an ideology. It describes a list of grievances. To understand the alt-right is to understand those grievances, at which point you can either deny the problem and keep pushing the same nonsense, or abandon progressive identity politics and pursue dialogue instead.

And I'd say its pointless to pursue dialogue to those who will not listen.

[Zipangese Star Empire]

"Is the Alt-right a terrorist movement in the making?"

We'll let's see. Most everyone who comes out as right wing nowadays are viewed by literally anyone on the left as a spawn mix of hitler and satan just because they are right wing, it's the right wing and in effect the alt-right that are continuously pushed down and suppressed on platforms such as twitter, facebook, and now with a certain bank in the US, I believe it's called Chase bank, are now actively purging conservatives from it's clientele. Then you have anyone who is right wing on collage campuses or in general (especially here in the UK) accused of being racist just again, for being right wing and having a difference in opinion, being smeared by the mainstream media and these militant leftists like antifa(And yes they are militant by my very own opinion) for going out, harassing and trying to start fights with anyone they don't like, namely and generally on the right.

Then there's those that give platform and praise to organisations such as Antifa and anyone who smears the right, and those who are actively trying to do everything in their power to frame anyone right of Stalinist as hitler incarnate. So yes I believe it's a terrorist movement in the making by those who are trying to fight the whole right wing. By fighting the whole right wing, you're forcing those who are moderates to see the left as the left sees the right which is going to ultimately lead to a clash between the two. So if it becomes a terrorist movement, then it is not their fault. They are reacting in the only way they see they can react, with violence since their voice is being taken away and anyone who speaks for them is ridiculed and de-personed.

Now for the disclaimer. The opinion expressed above is my completely honest opinion written from my own view, this is not meant to be considered trolling, or anything of the sort such as flamebaiting.

[Fedel]

On this very page I was called an "unstable nazi" for some light teasing.

If that doesn't breed extremists I don't know what does.

Sounds like you're not being very respectful of other people's culture.

Sounds like you're a very unsubtle Nazi.

[Bezkoshtovnya]

Sounds like you're a very unsubtle Nazi.

Wow. You're the one talking about how people's religious symbols are irrelevant and I'M the nazi. You guys are quite something.

Tbf he did specify that the negative connotations of the symbol are mostly only concerning the western world following WWII. In the east the Swastika retains much if it's original meaning and use as a religious symbol in Hinduism and Jainism.

[Ostroeuropa]

Because many refuse to acknowledge it may be a reaction to legitimate grievances, since their worldview is constructed to place all social ills and vice as rooted in whites and males while absolving minorities and women of wrongdoing by transferring their culpability onto their ideological scapegoat.

Which ironically, is exactly the way the Alt-Right's worldview but merely with the roles reversed. I'd hardly consider the Alt-Right's reaction to be measured or sensible. Alienation is no reason to justify reactionary behaviors.

Precisely, but there is a crucial difference being that the alt-right is self-aware and that makes their reaction actually fairly justified if you ignore that not all women and minorities are progressives and many oppose progressivism. (This is a major flaw of theirs.).

Self-defense is reasonable and measured. The problem is; "I am under a murderous attack from a violent psychopathic black man who says he is a representative of all black men, so now I am justified in genocide because clearly I should take his word for it.".

To be clear, we're discussing the reactionary politics being justified in that context (if you ignore the aforementioned flaw), not terrorism or violence. The violence here is an analogy for reactionary action used to limit agency (ability to harm.).

[Ostroeuropa]

Because many refuse to acknowledge it may be a reaction to legitimate grievances, since their worldview is constructed to place all social ills and vice as rooted in whites and males while absolving minorities and women of wrongdoing by transferring their culpability onto their ideological scapegoat.

The alt-right primarily doesn't describe a just society as an ideology. It describes a list of grievances. To understand the alt-right is to understand those grievances, at which point you can either deny the problem and keep pushing the same nonsense, or abandon progressive identity politics and pursue dialogue instead.

And I'd say its pointless to pursue dialogue to those who will not listen.

Right, congratulations. So what do you do instead?

[Fedel]

Wow. You're the one talking about how people's religious symbols are irrelevant and I'M the nazi. You guys are quite something.

Tbf he did specify that the negative connotations of the symbol are mostly only concerning the western world following WWII. In the east the Swastika retains much if it's original meaning and use as a religious symbol in Hinduism and Jainism.

That's fine. I wasn't aiming to have a serious discussion about in the first place. I was just poking fun at their rather extreme position that all of the symbols meanings prior to the Nazi's using it were "irrelevant" and I got called a nazi.

[Prydania]

I have no doubt they think they’re motivated by something but that doesn’t mean what they’re motivated by is real. Because I have news for you. There’s no logical reason to shoot up a synagogue. No “dem Jews” conspiracy theories are logical, and none of them justify the violence we’ve seen.

Of course not. But that doesn't take away the fact that they believe the rationale they're using to commit these acts to some extent. It's important we find out why that is and what we can do to fix it.

I’ve been down this road before. It ends with someone going “maybe the Jews are to blame for society’s ills a little bit. How about Jews stop doing that so the poor misunderstood white nationalist terrorist don’t shoot up any more synagogues?”
That is to say that you’re veering close to legitimizing the irrational hatred and conspiratorial nonsense that these people cite before killing innocents.

The only people I hate are people who wish to do harm to myself and my loved ones.

And unfortunately, I think you might be confusing who wants to do that.

No, I really don’t think I am.

Then they can say so and clear up any misunderstanding.

True enough, but until then, I think the healthiest thing for YOU would be to give them the benefit of the doubt.

They’ve given me no reason to. So no.

[Bezkoshtovnya]

Tbf he did specify that the negative connotations of the symbol are mostly only concerning the western world following WWII. In the east the Swastika retains much if it's original meaning and use as a religious symbol in Hinduism and Jainism.

That's fine. I wasn't aiming to have a serious discussion about in the first place. I was just poking fun at their rather extreme position that all of the symbols meanings prior to Hitler using it were "irrelevant" and I got called a nazi.

That is true. Not really seeing how that is at all grounds to be accused of being a Nazi.

[Prydania]

On this very page I was called an "unstable nazi" for some light teasing.

If that doesn't breed extremists I don't know what does.

Sounds like you're a very unsubtle Nazi.

If someone you never met and never will meet calls you a Nazi over the internet? And this pushes you to embrace right wing extremism? Well you didn’t have far to go did you?

[Fedel]

That's fine. I wasn't aiming to have a serious discussion about in the first place. I was just poking fun at their rather extreme position that all of the symbols meanings prior to Hitler using it were "irrelevant" and I got called a nazi.

That is true. Not really seeing how that is at all grounds to be accused of being a Nazi.

That's kind of the point others were making on the previous page. For some progressives, anybody who even slightly goes against their views is labelled as a member of the "alt-right" or a "nazi" which in itself breeds extremists.

[Fedel]

On this very page I was called an "unstable nazi" for some light teasing.

If that doesn't breed extremists I don't know what does.

If someone you never met and never will meet calls you a Nazi over the internet? And this pushes you to embrace right wing extremism? Well you didn’t have far to go did you?

Of course, but when you're bludgeoned day in and day out with this crap it can definitely wear on you. And we're not only trying to prevent well adjusted individuals from being turned into extremists but also the susceptible ones as well, or should we not take them into account?

[Ostroeuropa]

That is true. Not really seeing how that is at all grounds to be accused of being a Nazi.

That's kind of the point others were making on the previous page. For some progressives, anybody who even slightly goes against their views is labelled as a member of the "alt-right" or a "nazi" which in itself breeds extremists.

When you wear rose colored glasses, everything looks red. The progressive identity politics ideology is constructed in such a way as to always find and place fault with whites and males whenever it is applied in earnest, because it is more of an articulation of prejudice than a genuine worldview, much like Nazi anti-Semitism. This is why it holds incoherent positions that eventually they rationalized with what is basically an open appeal to racism and sexism worded differently with the privilege+power nonsense.

The jew is all powerful and world conquering and also cowardly and inferior. How? Something something Nazi nonsense.

Mens spaces bad, womens spaces good. How? Something something progressive nonsense.

And so on.

[Prydania]

That is true. Not really seeing how that is at all grounds to be accused of being a Nazi.

That's kind of the point others were making on the previous page. For some progressives, anybody who even slightly goes against their views is labelled as a member of the "alt-right" or a "nazi" which in itself breeds extremists.

People don’t go from “normal and well-adjusted” to “all the minorities need to be purged” overnight. The idea that progressive ideals turned good, well meaning people into bigots doesn’t hold up.

[Fedel]

That's kind of the point others were making on the previous page. For some progressives, anybody who even slightly goes against their views is labelled as a member of the "alt-right" or a "nazi" which in itself breeds extremists.

People don’t go from “normal and well-adjusted” to “all the minorities need to be purged” overnight. The idea that progressive ideals turned good, well meaning people into bigots doesn’t hold up.

I never claimed you go from "normal and well adjusted" to “all the minorities need to be purged” overnight. As I noted in one of my posts above, a constant barrage can wear on your patience and make you more susceptible and there are those are more susceptible to begin with for various reasons ( emotionally vulnerable, possessing a background that predisposes you to such beliefs, bitterness, etc. ). Why do you think it doesn't hold up? You don't think being accused of being a bigot when you're not would be frustrating and leave you more open to hearing criticisms about the groups that most often send that criticism your way? If so, you're dead wrong pal.

[Prydania]

If someone you never met and never will meet calls you a Nazi over the internet? And this pushes you to embrace right wing extremism? Well you didn’t have far to go did you?

Of course, but when you're bludgeoned day in and day out with this crap it can definitely wear on you. And we're not only trying to prevent well adjusted individuals from being turned into extremists but also the susceptible ones as well, or should we not take them into account?

If someone hates me because I’m Jewish? The burden isn’t on me to change their mind. Contrary to what they believe? Neither myself or anyone I’m related to controls the banks or media or gave their job to an immigrant. Contrary to what they believe I’m not part of a conspiracy to replace white Americans with Muslims and Mexicans.

If someone hates me because I’m Jewish? That’s their failing. Not mine.

[Ostroeuropa]

That's kind of the point others were making on the previous page. For some progressives, anybody who even slightly goes against their views is labelled as a member of the "alt-right" or a "nazi" which in itself breeds extremists.

People don’t go from “normal and well-adjusted” to “all the minorities need to be purged” overnight. The idea that progressive ideals turned good, well meaning people into bigots doesn’t hold up.

It's a matter of realizing the dynamic and realizing dialogue with the progressive left is largely pointless. A key element of the alt-right worldview is the inevitability of conflict because of enemy action and refusal to stop.

[Fedel]

Of course, but when you're bludgeoned day in and day out with this crap it can definitely wear on you. And we're not only trying to prevent well adjusted individuals from being turned into extremists but also the susceptible ones as well, or should we not take them into account?

If someone hates me because I’m Jewish? The burden isn’t on me to change their mind. Contrary to what they believe? Neither myself or anyone I’m related to controls the banks or media or gave their job to an immigrant. Contrary to what they believe I’m not part of a conspiracy to replace white Americans with Muslims and Mexicans.

If someone hates me because I’m Jewish? That’s their failing. Not mine.

Yeah, well congratulations. You just figured out why you and a lot of the people on 4chan and other such sites who feel disenfranchised have a lot in common.

[Prydania]

You don't think being accused of being a bigot when you're not would be frustrating...

Welcome to being Jewish. I have to deal with people constantly accusing me of being part of a cabal that controls the banks and media, is trying to genocide the white race, is trying to undermine western society, as well as being responsible for both communism and capitalism.

Jews have been accused of being the worst things western society can conjure, for centuries. And never once has being bludgeoned with these baseless accusations driven me to kill anyone.

[Ostroeuropa]

If someone hates me because I’m Jewish? The burden isn’t on me to change their mind. Contrary to what they believe? Neither myself or anyone I’m related to controls the banks or media or gave their job to an immigrant. Contrary to what they believe I’m not part of a conspiracy to replace white Americans with Muslims and Mexicans.

If someone hates me because I’m Jewish? That’s their failing. Not mine.

Yea, well congratulations. You just figured out why you and a lot of the people on 4chan and other such sites who feel disenfranchised have a lot in common.

It's pretty stunning how often they come so close but fall juuuuuust short.

[Fedel]

You don't think being accused of being a bigot when you're not would be frustrating...

Welcome to being Jewish. I have to deal with people constantly accusing me of being part of a cabal that controls the banks and media, is trying to genocide the white race, is trying to undermine western society, as well as being responsible for both communism and capitalism.

Jews have been accused of being the worst things western society can conjure, for centuries. And never once has being bludgeoned with these baseless accusations driven me to kill anyone.

Sure, but it's definitely driven other jews to kill people. Just like the crap a lot of these people on 4chan get doesn't drive the vast majority of them to kill people.

I'm kind of shocked you're not getting this.

[Prydania]

If someone hates me because I’m Jewish? The burden isn’t on me to change their mind. Contrary to what they believe? Neither myself or anyone I’m related to controls the banks or media or gave their job to an immigrant. Contrary to what they believe I’m not part of a conspiracy to replace white Americans with Muslims and Mexicans.

If someone hates me because I’m Jewish? That’s their failing. Not mine.

Yeah, well congratulations. You just figured out why you and a lot of the people on 4chan and other such sites who feel disenfranchised have a lot in common.

Ahaha that’s great.
I just said, as a Jew, that I’m not responsible for people’s misguided and antisemitic conspiracy theories. And all you have is “no you!”

So tell me. How exactly am I responsible for all the shit these people assume about me because of my ethnicity?

[-MAFDET-]

That's ignorant of the history of the alt-right and the timeline of events for one thing, because it begs the question of who legitimized it and how. In reality the alt-right has been mobilizing for a while and growing for a while. They boosted Trump and he boosted them in return.

Increasing assertion of a political narrative is not the same thing as increasing awareness, but yes, progressivism being more prominent has led to radicalization.

Can you name some white privilege for me as an example? Just three issues would do.

Would you also say feminism needs to be brought down and the environments that created the ideas for it to thrive and so on? I agree we need to end discrimination and hate ideologies and so on. But if you're one sided with that, then conflict becomes inevitable again.

It is ignorant to tackle on the issues of white supremacy and Donald Trump's support of it without understanding the social context for why they exist. The question of white supremacy's validity has been answered a thousand times in much more esteemed institutions than NSG. But very well. I'll provide a response I made to a person who asked me virtually the same question you did. It's better than providing a different version of the same answer. It's somewhat more in-depth than what you asked for, but it will do.

That's a gross misunderstanding of the nature of white privilege. It does not mean that all white people are wealthy. It does not suggest that poor white people have never struggled.

White privilege is the birth child of racial bias and racism. Racial bias is a belief, conscious or otherwise, someone may have towards a particular race. When a white man is walking along the street and, upon facing a group of black men conversing with each other, chooses to cross the street rather than walk anywhere near them is an instance of bias. When a white person takes the time out of their day to call the police on a seemingly inactive black man that is actually behaving perfectly lawfully - that too is an instance of bias.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.thegua ... iladelphia

When a police officer attempts to justify shooting an unarmed person of color because he "feared for his life" - that is racial bias.

Racism is when these prejudical beliefs become rule of law. Technically, the existence of racism and racial bias is owed to the concept of racialization, which is the societal classification of humans beings into different groups based upon perceived physical differences, particularly skin color. In other words, the creation of race as a social construct.

This arbitrary grouping of other people, concocted by white settlers in this case, laid the foundation for the ongoing mistreatment of people of color. Inevitably, this gave birth to white privilege.
White privilege is the simple fact that your skn pigment is not one of the things that's making your life more difficult, while the reverse is true for people of color.

- White people are less likely to be followed or interrogated by law enforcement because they appear "suspicious"

-White people’s skin tone will not be a reason people hesitate to trust their credit or financial responsibility.

-If white people are accused of a crime, they are less likely to be presumed guilty, less likely to be sentenced to death and more likely to be portrayed in a fair, nuanced manner by media outlets

-The personal faults or missteps of white people will likely not be used to later deny opportunities or compassion to people who share their racial identity. My own father, who is a convicted felon, is currently working on a college degree, and has a job as a detox nurse. I am certain he would not have been able to reach this far had he not been white.


As I previously mentioned, non white people are generally more likely to be harassed by law enforcement. New York's now abandoned "Stop and Frisk" policy disproportionately targeted an extensive amount of black and latinex people. https://www.nyclu.org/en/stop-and-frisk-data

People of color are considerably more likely to be arrested for drug offenses despite using at a similar rate as white people. https://www.vox.com/2016/5/8/18089368/w ... eroin-meth

According to this data collected in 2017, unarmed and non-violent people of color are more likely to be shot by police than white people. https://policeviolencereport.org

These are the examples of white privilege that I have listed. I can think of more, but I'm too tired to do it. At any rate, I wrote an essay length post just for you.

White privilege is invisible to the people who directly benefit from it. The privileges we possess are not something often contemplated. This research has forced white people to essentially think about the status they hold in society, and how it impacts everyone else. Whether consciously or otherwise, white nationalists despise the idea of their privilege in society being challenged. POC have to go through life with extra mitigation, while white people simply do not have the same social baggage.

As for your last question, I'm utterly lost on your line of thinking. White men are not marginalized on account of their skin color or gender. Black men, with all of the horrible treatment they face, are still moderately better off than black women on account of simply being men. They are not immune to holding sexist bias. I don't understand your vendetta against feminism, a philosophy that is about equality for all.