Alt-right. A terrorist movement in the making?

[Prydania]

The reason I ask is the choice of year seems arbitrary. Why 1992? And you have pointed out the sources you provided were from a right-wing think tank, so it intrigued me that they didn't break down the alt-right murders by recent years like they did with the left.

I can’t say why they chose 1992. Long enough ago to give a more comprehensive picture but not so long ago as to be irrelevant? The OKC bombings weren’t alt right obviously, but they were carried out by a right wing white nationalist. And many of the ideologies McVeigh followed have seen a resurgence among the alt right. I don’t think anyone’s stretching to connect those dots.

Timothy McVeigh wasn't a white nationalist. He was just a dude angry at the federal government over Waco and Ruby Ridge, and the Brady act.

Doesn't excuse what he did, but he's not a Neo Nazi.

Turner Diaries. Dude was motivated by white nationalism.

[Conserative Morality]

Timothy McVeigh wasn't a white nationalist.

lol

McVeigh was a well-recorded racist cunt who associated closely with the KKK.

[Bepsia]

Odds are the alt-right will never be as unified in terrorism as groups such as Islamic terrorist and possibly even the far left.

[The Emerald Legion]

The reason I ask is the choice of year seems arbitrary. Why 1992? And you have pointed out the sources you provided were from a right-wing think tank, so it intrigued me that they didn't break down the alt-right murders by recent years like they did with the left.

I can’t say why they chose 1992. Long enough ago to give a more comprehensive picture but not so long ago as to be irrelevant? The OKC bombings weren’t alt right obviously, but they were carried out by a right wing white nationalist. And many of the ideologies McVeigh followed have seen a resurgence among the alt right. I don’t think anyone’s stretching to connect those dots.

Timothy McVeigh wasn't a white nationalist. He was just a dude angry at the federal government over Waco and Ruby Ridge, and the Brady act.

Doesn't excuse what he did, but he's not a Neo Nazi.

Turner Diaries. Dude was motivated by white nationalism.

Oh hey, I enjoyed the novel Epic. I must be a fan of Pacifistic socialism.

He was a radical 2nd Amendment dude. Not a white nationalist. Why the fuck would he bomb a courthouse if he wanted to kill minorities?

[Conserative Morality]

Oh hey, I enjoyed the novel Epic. I must be a fan of Pacifistic socialism.

Oh fucking lol, now we're playing apologist for the kind of people who love The Turner Diaries.

Jesus Christ.

[Bepsia]

I can’t say why they chose 1992. Long enough ago to give a more comprehensive picture but not so long ago as to be irrelevant? The OKC bombings weren’t alt right obviously, but they were carried out by a right wing white nationalist. And many of the ideologies McVeigh followed have seen a resurgence among the alt right. I don’t think anyone’s stretching to connect those dots.


Turner Diaries. Dude was motivatminoritiesed by white nationalism.

one could say that McVeigh was left-leaning, yes today is somewhat an image for the extremely small violent far-right but far-right he was not.

[Prydania]

Oh hey, I enjoyed the novel Epic. I must be a fan of Pacifistic socialism.

The Turner Diaries is white nationalist wish fulfillment. If you enjoy it? You’re probably a white nationalist.

Why the fuck would he bomb a courthouse if he wanted to kill minorities?

White nationalists tend to be very hostile towards the US government (especially when a Democrat is in the White House) as they feel the US government’s policies have led to a pluralistic society they wish to reverse.
Targeting the US government has been a part of the right wing white nationalist terrorist playbook for decades.

[Conserative Morality]

one could say that McVeigh was left-leaning, yes today is somewhat an image for the extremely small violent far-right but far-right he was not.

>> anti-government
>> whined about the US becoming a socialist dystopia
>> racist as fuck
>> 'left-wing'

[Prydania]

Oh hey, I enjoyed the novel Epic. I must be a fan of Pacifistic socialism.

Oh fucking lol, now we're playing apologist for the kind of people who love The Turner Diaries.

Jesus Christ.

This is how it goes.

“Left wing terrorism is a bigger threat than right wing white nationalist terrorism!”
“Actually no, here are statistics that prove the opposite is true.”
“Nu-uh the OKC Bombing wasn’t a white nationalist attack! McVeigh just liked guns! Turner Diaries is legitimate literature!”

Nothing is off limits, no statement too absurd if it means owning the libs.

“libs” in this case is anyone who disapproves of white nationalist terrorists killing innocent people.

[The Emerald Legion]

Oh hey, I enjoyed the novel Epic. I must be a fan of Pacifistic socialism.

The Turner Diaries is white nationalist wish fulfillment. If you enjoy it? You’re probably a white nationalist.

Why the fuck would he bomb a courthouse if he wanted to kill minorities?

White nationalists tend to be very hostile towards the US government (especially when a Democrat is in the White House) as they feel the US government’s policies have led to a pluralistic society they wish to reverse.
Targeting the US government has been a part of the right wing white nationalist terrorist playbook for decades.

When 90% of the sources paint him as a gun nut obsessed with proliferation of weapons, he rants at length about how disarmament is wrong, including a massive screed lambasting the US government for declaring war to disarm Iraq of WMDs while being the only nation in existence to use them the pages of the book he's recorded as liking are the ones about Mortar attacks and he's on record as saying the guns are why he liked it....


Dudes thing was guns. Literally everything he said. Everything everyone else said about him painted him as a Gun nut gone nuts who didn't particularly give a shit about race.

[Fedel]

When someone tries to claim the movement that 1) advocates for violence against my ethnic group and 2) has members actually going out to act on that isn’t a threat? No, I don’t think they’re acting in good faith.

They didn't do that though as far as I'm aware. They just stated that they didn't believe it was as prominent as other threats.

[Conserative Morality]

The Turner Diaries is white nationalist wish fulfillment. If you enjoy it? You’re probably a white nationalist.


White nationalists tend to be very hostile towards the US government (especially when a Democrat is in the White House) as they feel the US government’s policies have led to a pluralistic society they wish to reverse.
Targeting the US government has been a part of the right wing white nationalist terrorist playbook for decades.

When 90% of the sources paint him as a gun nut obsessed with proliferation of weapons, he rants at length about how disarmament is wrong, including a massive screed lambasting the US government for declaring war to disarm Iraq of WMDs while being the only nation in existence to use them the pages of the book he's recorded as liking are the ones about Mortar attacks and he's on record as saying the guns are why he liked it....


Dudes thing was guns. Literally everything he said. Everything everyone else said about him painted him as a Gun nut gone nuts who didn't particularly give a shit about race.

"Yeah, he just called his fellow servicemen niggers, engaged in open hostility against them, joined the KKK, and peddled the Turner Diaries. He didn't give a shit about race!"

It's amazing how far you people will go to defend a literal racist terrorist.

[The Emerald Legion]

When 90% of the sources paint him as a gun nut obsessed with proliferation of weapons, he rants at length about how disarmament is wrong, including a massive screed lambasting the US government for declaring war to disarm Iraq of WMDs while being the only nation in existence to use them the pages of the book he's recorded as liking are the ones about Mortar attacks and he's on record as saying the guns are why he liked it....


Dudes thing was guns. Literally everything he said. Everything everyone else said about him painted him as a Gun nut gone nuts who didn't particularly give a shit about race.

"Yeah, he just called his fellow servicemen niggers, engaged in open hostility against them, joined the KKK, and peddled the Turner Diaries. He didn't give a shit about race!"

It's amazing how far you people will go to defend a literal racist terrorist.

Source? Literally nothing I have ever read has said anything of the sort about him. In fact his only political associations I know of are the NRA and Republican party.

[Conserative Morality]

"Yeah, he just called his fellow servicemen niggers, engaged in open hostility against them, joined the KKK, and peddled the Turner Diaries. He didn't give a shit about race!"

It's amazing how far you people will go to defend a literal racist terrorist.

Source? Literally nothing I have ever read has said anything of the sort about him. In fact his only political associations I know of are the NRA and Republican party.

https://www.nytimes.com/1995/05/04/us/terror-oklahoma-john-doe-no-1-special-report-life-solitude-obsessions.html?pagewanted=all

https://books.google.com/books?dq=timothy+mcveigh+%22white+power%22+shirt&id=2cVdDQAAQBAJ&lpg=PT98&ots=xGCCTYOme0&pg=PT97#v=onepage&q=blacks&f=false

[Prydania]

When someone tries to claim the movement that 1) advocates for violence against my ethnic group and 2) has members actually going out to act on that isn’t a threat? No, I don’t think they’re acting in good faith.

They didn't do that though as far as I'm aware. They just stated that they didn't believe it was as prominent as other threats.

Which statistically isn’t the case, even if he’s given the benefit of the doubt.

My reading of his comments though? It’s he doesn’t believe the shootings of Jews and Muslims in their houses of worship is a threat. Which is absurd. As a Jew? It’s also very telling.
Hell, you’ve done more to try and insist he views it as a threat than he has. Stop carrying his water. Let him sink or swim on his own.

[Fedel]

They didn't do that though as far as I'm aware. They just stated that they didn't believe it was as prominent as other threats.

Which statistically isn’t the case, even if he’s given the benefit of the doubt.

My reading of his comments though? It’s he doesn’t believe the shootings of Jews and Muslims in their houses of worship is a threat. Which is absurd. As a Jew? It’s also very telling.
Hell, you’ve done more to try and insist he views it as a threat than he has. Stop carrying his water. Let him sink or swim on his own.

Really depends on whether or not they believe that all right wing terrorist actions accounted for in that study you provided are committed by members of "the alt-right" and whether or not he was referencing current threats or the cumulative threats from up to nearly three decades ago.

Considering how vague and nebulous that term is, I kind of doubt it myself.

I'm not assuming his intent. I'm just saying, it's probably better to give somebody the benefit of the doubt rather then suggest they don't care about the murder of innocent people. That's just how I was brought up though.

[Prydania]

Which statistically isn’t the case, even if he’s given the benefit of the doubt.

My reading of his comments though? It’s he doesn’t believe the shootings of Jews and Muslims in their houses of worship is a threat. Which is absurd. As a Jew? It’s also very telling.
Hell, you’ve done more to try and insist he views it as a threat than he has. Stop carrying his water. Let him sink or swim on his own.

Really depends on whether or not they believe that all right wing terrorist actions accounted for in that study you provided are committed by members of "the alt-right."

Considering how vague and nebulous that term is, I kind of doubt it myself.

It was a study that looked at right wing terrorist activity. The alt right is a subset of that.

Also I see you never once actually provided a source for your claim that right wing terrorism was a response to left wing terrorism. I’d also like you to explain how shooting Jews and Muslims in a synagogue or mosque is a “reaction” to anything but a person’s own irrational hatred.

[Fedel]

Really depends on whether or not they believe that all right wing terrorist actions accounted for in that study you provided are committed by members of "the alt-right."

Considering how vague and nebulous that term is, I kind of doubt it myself.

It was a study that looked at right wing terrorist activity. The alt right is a subset of that.

Also I see you never once actually provided a source for your claim that right wing terrorism was a response to left wing terrorism. I’d also like you to explain how shooting Jews and Muslims in a synagogue or mosque is a “reaction” to anything but a person’s own irrational hatred.

Yes. A subset. Not the sum total.

A source for right wing radical action being partially a result of left wing actions they dislike which most of them state inspired them to carry out that act in the first place? Isn't that just common sense?

I'd imagine it's partially a reaction of what they perceive to be a culture that fosters violence and oppression.

[Prydania]

It was a study that looked at right wing terrorist activity. The alt right is a subset of that.

Also I see you never once actually provided a source for your claim that right wing terrorism was a response to left wing terrorism. I’d also like you to explain how shooting Jews and Muslims in a synagogue or mosque is a “reaction” to anything but a person’s own irrational hatred.

Yes. A subset.

A source for right wing radical action being partially a result of left wing actions they dislike? Isn't that just common sense?

I'd imagine it's partially a reaction of what they perceive to be a culture that fosters violence and oppression.

No, it’s not common sense. In no way is shooting up a synagogue a viable reaction to something. Try again.

Oh, another thing. They’re upset about a culture that fosters violence and oppression so they go out to kill and oppress people? Yeah ok.

See, that’s the thing. I don’t think right wing terrorism is a reaction to anything. At least not anything logical. It’s irrational to hate someone because of their race or religion, so to go out and kill people based on that hatred is only a reaction to their own irrational hatred. Not a reaction to anything tangible.

I'm not assuming his intent. I'm just saying, it's probably better to give somebody the benefit of the doubt rather then suggest they don't care about the murder of innocent people. That's just how I was brought up though.

I was brought up hearing stories of Holocaust survivors, some of whom were from my own family. It was made clear to me that there are people who want to kill me because I’m Jewish. And now those people are actually going out and killing Jews.

I’m not inclined to think someone who tries to downplay that is acting in good faith.

Yes. A subset. Not the sum total.

Exactly. Which is why the studies say “right wing terrorism” is more prevalent than left wing terrorism. Not “alt right terrorism.”

[TREY DAVIS]

Both the Left and the Far Right have Authoritarian viewpoints. The terms "Alt Right", "Fascist", and "Nazi" tends to be thrown at anyone with the slightest of conservative views. The left has shown Authoritarian views as well and have been more violent about it recently. Within modern politics, anyone that supports to secure their borders is "Alt Right". Anyone whom is white is automatically "Alt-Right". The Left and Far Right have more in common than you may think. They both have authoritarian views. They both have some variant of Fascist views, even though one side may not be aware of it. They're both capable of violence. Both sides have shown signs of Racism, the left having a strong disliking against Asian Americans, Caucasians[Which also counts as a race], African Americans that don't agree with their views, and people of specific religions. The Far Right strongly dislikes those who are not white and people of specific religions.

Basically the same ideals.

[TREY DAVIS]

As for the idea that Right-Wing Terrorism is more common than Left-Wing Terrorism, you don't hear about Left-Wing Terrorism as much since a large majority of the mainstream media doesn't report of acts of terror carried out by the Left due to bias which has been shown multiple times. Mainstream media only reports crimes carried out by people on the Right due to political motives, and most of these are taken off quotes on twitter with little to no fact checking. Such as CNN, The New York Times, and The Washington Post. These are several sources which have a political agenda and push it onto the public through their "news".

[The Emerald Legion]

Source? Literally nothing I have ever read has said anything of the sort about him. In fact his only political associations I know of are the NRA and Republican party.

https://www.nytimes.com/1995/05/04/us/terror-oklahoma-john-doe-no-1-special-report-life-solitude-obsessions.html?pagewanted=all

https://books.google.com/books?dq=timothy+mcveigh+%22white+power%22+shirt&id=2cVdDQAAQBAJ&lpg=PT98&ots=xGCCTYOme0&pg=PT97#v=onepage&q=blacks&f=false

Interesting. I don't have time to fully look into this at the moment but I'll look at it later.

[Fedel]

No, it’s not common sense. In no way is shooting up a synagogue a viable reaction to something. Try again.

I'm sorry but we're just going to have to disagree on this. When a right wing terrorist states that their actions were motivated by something, I'm inclined to believe that, at least in part, it's true. To what extent they're trying to manipulate their audience with these statements is up for debate, but the issues they bring up were most certainly on their mind in some capacity when they committed the act.

Oh, another thing. They’re upset about a culture that fosters violence and oppression so they go out to kill and oppress people? Yeah ok.

Do you take issue with the validity of the statement? I'm not saying that justifies their actions, just that that can often be apart of what motivates an act like that.

See, that’s the thing. I don’t think right wing terrorism is a reaction to anything. At least not anything logical. It’s irrational to hate someone because of their race or religion, so to go out and kill people based on that hatred is only a reaction to their own irrational hatred. Not a reaction to anything tangible.

All acts carried out by somebody who's not outright insane have a rationale behind them, whether they're logical or not is a different question.

I was brought up hearing stories of Holocaust survivors, some of whom were from my own family. It was made clear to me that there are people who want to kill me because I’m Jewish. And now those people are actually going out and killing Jews.

While I'm sorry for your family, I still don't think that's a reason to become paranoid about people's beliefs/intentions. Hatred only breeds more hatred.

I’m not inclined to think someone who tries to downplay that is acting in good faith.

Maybe. Maybe not. Either way, I think it's unreasonable to suggest they don't care about the death of innocent people based on their statements.

Exactly. Which is why the studies say “right wing terrorism” is more prevalent than left wing terrorism. Not “alt right terrorism.”

But the discussion that was being held was whether or not the radical left is a bigger threat then the alt right currently. Not whether left wing or right wing terror acts have been more prevalent in the last 30 years.

[Prydania]

But the discussion that was being held was whether or not the radical left is a bigger threat then the alt right currently. Not whether left wing or right wing terror acts have been more prevalent in the last 30 years.

Greater Germany mentioned the sources I posted and pointed out that there have been 13 deaths in the US as a result of left wing terrorism since 2016. He wondered aloud what the alt right’s stats were in that time. Between Charlottesville, the Pittsburgh synagogue shooting, and the Poway synagogue shooting? Thirteen. Off the top of my head. And that’s just the US.
So even if you cherrypicked your stats to be as generous to the right as possible? Right wing terrorism is just as prevalent as left wing terrorism over the last few years.

No, it’s not common sense. In no way is shooting up a synagogue a viable reaction to something. Try again.

I'm sorry but we're just going to have to disagree on this. When a right wing terrorist states that their actions were motivated by something, I'm inclined to believe that, at least in part, it's true. To what extent they're trying to manipulate their audience with these statements is up for debate, but the issues they bring up were most certainly on their mind in some capacity when they committed the act.

I have no doubt they think they’re motivated by something but that doesn’t mean what they’re motivated by is real. Because I have news for you. There’s no logical reason to shoot up a synagogue. No “dem Jews” conspiracy theories are logical, and none of them justify the violence we’ve seen.

Do you take issue with the validity of the statement? I'm not saying that justifies their actions, just that that can often be apart of what motivates an act like that.

I do take issue with the validity of your statement, because you seem to be trying to assert that the antisemitic conspiracy theories these shooters cite are valid enough to be reacted to.
Of course they think they’re real, that’s why they did what they did. Rational people who know they’re bunk, however, don’t need to humour them.

I was brought up hearing stories of Holocaust survivors, some of whom were from my own family. It was made clear to me that there are people who want to kill me because I’m Jewish. And now those people are actually going out and killing Jews.

While I'm sorry for your family, I still don't think that's a reason to become paranoid about people's beliefs/intentions. Hatred only breeds more hatred.

The only people I hate are people who wish to do harm to myself and my loved ones.

Maybe. Maybe not. Either way, I think it's unreasonable to suggest they don't care about the death of innocent people based on their statements.

Then they can say so and clear up any misunderstanding.

[The Black Forrest]

I'm sorry but we're just going to have to disagree on this. When a right wing terrorist states that their actions were motivated by something, I'm inclined to believe that, at least in part, it's true. To what extent they're trying to manipulate their audience with these statements is up for debate, but the issues they bring up were most certainly on their mind in some capacity when they committed the act.

Issues such as?

Sorry people in general do now wake up one day and say you know what? I am going to kill me some *insert hated group*

This kind of action stews for awhile. Add in being damaged, mental issues, whatever and they explode.

Do you take issue with the validity of the statement? I'm not saying that justifies their actions, just that that can often be apart of what motivates an act like that. \

Hate motivates. Not sure where you justification is going.

All acts carried out by somebody who's not outright insane have a rationale behind them, whether they're logical or not is a different question.

Hate is rational? Maybe if you were a victim of it. Why are these "avengers" going out on their own? I guess if you live in a hate bubble and already have mental issues, it's only a matter of time before you act.

While I'm sorry for your family, I still don't think that's a reason to become paranoid about people's beliefs/intentions. Hatred only breeds more hatred.

Part of being vigilant is being a little paranoid. Listening to "Jews will not replace us" is not something to ignore as oh they are celebrating being white or just acting up and letting off steam.

Maybe. Maybe not. Either way, I think it's unreasonable to suggest they don't care about the death of innocent people based on their statements.

Statements? If you rate a people as substandard; it's easy to justify the deaths of innocent people.

But the discussion that was being held was whether or not the radical left is a bigger threat then the alt right currently. Not whether left wing or right wing terror acts have been more prevalent in the last 30 years.

The thread is about alt-right. Bringing up the left is simply a tangent.