Alt-right. A terrorist movement in the making?

[Prydania]

Yes, but we usually don't give the opinions of cold blooded murderers equal time, do we?
Or would you like to attempt to justify the murder of innocents worshipping in synagogues and mosques?

It doesn't matter if you give their opinions time or not. There is no objective justification or not out there, if someone feels they're justified in carrying out a terror attack then that's really all they need to do it.

So the bloody obvious? Gotcha. Good to know. People do things because they want to do them.

Though I do think you're a bit off the mark if you don't think gunning down worshippers is objectively wrong.

[Communist Zombie Horde]

I’ll flesh this out later in direct message- but Islam’s wars and conquests have murdered much much more than anything else and Islam is really violent even today.

And we're back to "It's okay to downplay or dismiss right-wing violence until the bodycount matches Muslims."

That will take forever.

[Washington Resistance Army]

It doesn't matter if you give their opinions time or not. There is no objective justification or not out there, if someone feels they're justified in carrying out a terror attack then that's really all they need to do it.

So the bloody obvious? Gotcha. Good to know. People do things because they want to do them.

Though I do think you're a bit off the mark if you don't think gunning down worshippers is objectively wrong.

I don't really think anything is objectively right or wrong. Such things are totally subjective.

[Gormwood]

And we're back to "It's okay to downplay or dismiss right-wing violence until the bodycount matches Muslims."

That will take forever.

At least you're upfront about your intention.

[Farnhamia]

That will take forever.

At least you're upfront about your intention.

*** 3 day ban for flame-bait. ***

[LiberNovusAmericae]

You are one of the rare centre-rightwingers I encountered that do not parrot the "Hitler was a progressive liberal socialist" memes, unlike so many American rightwing pundits such as Ben Shapiro, Carson, Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Dinesh D'Souza, or Donald Trump's son. My hats off to you. At least sanity still exists in this chaotic mess we call Earth.

Sad to see a rightist turning left- plus you named many great people in that post.

I ain't becoming a leftist.

[Zizou]

I’ll flesh this out later in direct message- but Islam’s wars and conquests have murdered much much more than anything else and Islam is really violent even today.

It's the followers of said religion, not the religion itself.

Inshallah, I'll see what he says, though I'm highly skeptical of the claim that "Muslims" have been responsible for >60 million deaths.

[Communist Zombie Horde]

Sad to see a rightist turning left- plus you named many great people in that post.

I ain't becoming a leftist.

You are being less right which is bad.

[Tutukerala]

SNIP

[Communist Zombie Horde]

This is the dumbest topic ever. The alt-right is just a collection of different ideologies, that reject mainstream politics. From what I've read the alt-right pretty much only agree on two things, race realism, and the Jewish Question. Yet even those agreed points they are disagreements, There are some that doubt the IQ differences in race matter that much( I'm pretty JF fits in here) and doubt that race plays that big of a role. All they agree upon is that humans are able to be divided into self-evident groups called races. Furthermore, on the Jewish Question, you have some you literally believe that Jews are responsible for everything wrong in the World, and some who just believe their influence is too powerful in America.

It's like saying the American Left is a terrorist movement. Illhan Omar believes that Jews have too much power in America, is she a terrorist? How about the Left's obsession with identity politics and black grievances. If all the races are the same then it is futile to have affirmative action, because blacks don't exist. They were just human beings abused by other human beings, with no special traits or history. Furthermore, how could a vast ideological group be united into a terrorist organization? Just like in the alt-right they're are differences in the LEft. Do you honestly think that AOC, Omar, Jimmy Dore, and Bernie are going to forget the differences they have with Clinton and Corporate Democrats and form a terrorist group? The answer is probably no, and the same goes for the Alt-Right.

I used to be a Libertarian, however, I have begun to accept Keynesianism and aspects of Socialism, so I consider myself on the Left now. However, the dumbness of American politics makes me see the Alt-right with new eyes. I see racial differences, though I don't think they matter that much, however, they exist. I see the Israel lobby as a threat to America, though I don't think they're the main problem for the white race( the white race's main problem is themselves). The American Left has refused to accept these facts, which is the reason why they're going to be irrelevant.

I am not alt right but i know the alt right fairly well. Many of them are not anti semitic- they just make lots of jokes about sensitive topics like the holocaust. Edgey but not much more than that.

[Communist Zombie Horde]

I’ll flesh this out later in direct message- but Islam’s wars and conquests have murdered much much more than anything else and Islam is really violent even today.

It's the followers of said religion, not the religion itself.

“It’s the folllowers of fascism that is violent, not fascism itself.” Calling bull on this one.

[Mushet]

From what I've seen they mostly just talk shit and unsuccessfully mobilize on petty schemes like trying to turn things like the the rainbow flag and the supreme brand into white supremacists symbols.

And the main reason they do that is because whenever they use any symbol ( whether for the purpose of pushing a white supremacist agenda or otherwise ) the symbol becomes labelled as one associated with white supremacist ideology. I.E. they do schemes like that in the first place because they know they have a chance of working due to the absolutely insane reaction they get from the left. It's pure absurdist humor meant to point out how ridiculous society and its over the top reactions to things have become.

And yet how often is this successful? I can think of maybe one time where I've seen anything come out of this.

[Tutukerala]

It's the followers of said religion, not the religion itself.

“It’s the folllowers of fascism that is violent, not fascism itself.” Calling bull on this one.

Catholicism says you can't use birth control, yet most Catholics use it anyway.

The religion could have precepts that its followers don't follow.

[Fostoria]

This is the dumbest topic ever. The alt-right is just a collection of different ideologies, that reject mainstream politics. From what I've read the alt-right pretty much only agree on two things, race realism, and the Jewish Question. Yet even with those agreed points, they are disagreements, There are some that doubt the IQ differences in race matter that much( I'm pretty sure JF fits in here) and doubt that race plays that big of a role. All they agree upon is that humans are able to be divided into self-evident groups called races. Furthermore, on the Jewish Question, you have some who literally believe that Jews are responsible for everything wrong in the World, and some who just believe their influence is too powerful in America.

It's like saying the American Left is a terrorist movement. Ilhan Omar believes that Jews have too much power in America, is she a terrorist? How about the Left's obsession with identity politics and black grievances. If all the races are the same then it is futile to have affirmative action, because blacks don't exist. They were just human beings abused by other human beings, with no special traits or history. Furthermore, how could a vast ideological group be united into a terrorist organization? Just like in the alt-right they're are differences in the LEft. Do you honestly think that AOC, Omar, Jimmy Dore, and Bernie are going to forget the differences they have with Clinton and Corporate Democrats and form a terrorist group? The answer is probably no, and the same goes for the Alt-Right.

I used to be a Libertarian, however, I have begun to accept Keynesianism and aspects of Socialism, so I consider myself on the Left now. However, the dumbness of American politics makes me see the Alt-right with new eyes. I see racial differences, though I don't think they matter that much, however, they exist. I see the Israel lobby as a threat to America, though I don't think they're the main problem for the white race( the white race's main problem is themselves). The American Left has refused to accept these facts, which is the reason why they're going to be irrelevant.

I've legitimately seen Ben Shapiro be called "alt-right" in the media. It's one of the most overused "buzzwords" in politics.

[Fostoria]

“It’s the folllowers of fascism that is violent, not fascism itself.” Calling bull on this one.

Catholicism says you can't use birth control, yet most Catholics use it anyway.

The religion could have precepts that its followers don't follow.

Meaning that, for the most part, it's a bad ideology.

[Samudera Darussalam]

[quote="Communist Zombie Horde";p="35638312"]
“It’s the folllowers of fascism that is violent, not fascism itself.” Calling bull on this one.[/quote]
You do know that 'religion' or whatever ideologies can't commit wars, right? They don't even have physical form. It's the people who are inspired by some thoughts, ideologies, or whatever beliefs that did the act.

[Tutukerala]

Catholicism says you can't use birth control, yet most Catholics use it anyway.

The religion could have precepts that its followers don't follow.

Meaning that, for the most part, it's a bad ideology.

Care to elaborate?

[Fostoria]

Meaning that, for the most part, it's a bad ideology.

Care to elaborate?

If a certain ideology (be it a religious belief or political group) has a lot of ideologies that you fundamentally disagree with, it is best to not support that institution. By supporting said ideology you are enabling things that you don't like to happen.

[Amuaplye]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unite_the_Right_rally
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centennia ... rk_bombing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorado_ ... d_shooting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_City_bombing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Berg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlesto ... h_shooting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Copeland
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2%8 ... _shootings
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Munich_shooting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisconsin ... e_shooting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittsburg ... e_shooting
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/29/us/s ... oting.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Behring_Breivik
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trollh%C3 ... ool_attack
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Jo_Cox
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christchu ... _shootings
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_2 ... g_attempts
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson ... r_shooting

"WiKiPeDiA iS BiAsEd!!1!"

If I had the desire to trawl through Breitbart, I would.

(I know you probably agree with me.)

[Bear Stearns]

America is doing a pretty crappy job of promoting white supremacy then, given that our government routinely enacts policies that harm whites. Would a white supremacist country give foreign aid to non-white nations, let in over 300,000 Central Americans in several migrant caravans, or even have affirmative action? Would a white supremacist nation impoverish the whitest parts of the country and tolerate white people having the highest rates of suicide and opioid addiction?

Have you ever wondered why are there so many caravans from Central America to begin with? I bet not many average Joes are aware of this simple historical fact for why the migrants keep coming whether there is a GOP or Dem-led government:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_St ... in_America
Remember Operation PBSUCCESS?

The last one of these happened over 30 years ago. They are not causing the caravans now.

[Zizou]

Have you ever wondered why are there so many caravans from Central America to begin with? I bet not many average Joes are aware of this simple historical fact for why the migrants keep coming whether there is a GOP or Dem-led government:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_St ... in_America
Remember Operation PBSUCCESS?

The last one of these happened over 30 years ago. They are not causing the caravans now.

I mean, the effects of those didn't magically stop 30 years ago as well.

[Fostoria]

Have you ever wondered why are there so many caravans from Central America to begin with? I bet not many average Joes are aware of this simple historical fact for why the migrants keep coming whether there is a GOP or Dem-led government:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_St ... in_America
Remember Operation PBSUCCESS?

The last one of these happened over 30 years ago. They are not causing the caravans now.

Venezuela is what happens without regime change. Chile and much of Central America could have been in that situation.

Edit: INB4 'muh U.S. sanctions

[Czechoslovakia and Zakarpattia]

Have you ever wondered why are there so many caravans from Central America to begin with? I bet not many average Joes are aware of this simple historical fact for why the migrants keep coming whether there is a GOP or Dem-led government:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_St ... in_America
Remember Operation PBSUCCESS?

The last one of these happened over 30 years ago. They are not causing the caravans now.

Yet the effects of the Dirty War still haunt Central America to this day, as governments in the region are either corrupt kleptocracies (As in Guatemala or Panama), brutal oligarchies (Honduras), or simply unstable and economically declining crime-ridden fragile states (El Salvador), and naturally, in such a violent climate of terror and desperate poverty, nobody would seriously consider staying there.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_American_crisis

[Czechoslovakia and Zakarpattia]

The last one of these happened over 30 years ago. They are not causing the caravans now.

Venezuela is what happens without regime change. Chile and much of Central America could have been in that situation.

Edit: INB4 'muh U.S. sanctions

Venezuela is what happens when you impose the Washington Consensus and IMF-sponsored austerity down the throats of citizens, thus fucking up the economy and allowing a caudillo the likes of Chavez to first repeatedly coup the nation, and then win the election, which then led to the current crisis. Neoliberalism always kills, with or without sanctions.

[Czechoslovakia and Zakarpattia]

Venezuela is what happens when you impose the Washington Consensus and IMF-sponsored austerity down the throats of citizens, thus fucking up the economy and allowing a caudillo the likes of Chavez to first repeatedly coup the nation, and then win the election, which then led to the current crisis. Neoliberalism always kills, with or without sanctions.

...Do you even study international relations, history, and economics dude?

I ain't calling the USA track record pure but that's a stupidly oversimplified viewpoint that is utterly wrong.

please study several books even ones who's conclusions you disagree with. The Might of Nations, Tragedy of Great Power Politics, and Diplomacy are excellent starts.

"A fall in oil prices in the mid-1980s caused an economic crisis to take hold in Venezuela, and the country had accrued significant levels of debt. Nevertheless, the administration of the left-leaning President Jaime Lusinchi was able to restructure the country's debt repayments and offset an economic crisis but allow for the continuation of the government's policies of social spending and state-sponsored subsidies.[9]

Lusinchi's political party, the Democratic Action, was able to remain in power following the 1988 election of Carlos Andrés Pérez as president. Pérez received 53% of the vote, while laissez-faire candidates gained another at least 40%. Pérez then proposed a major shift in policy by implementing neoliberal economic reforms recommended by the International Monetary Fund (IMF). The program, called El Gran Viraje (The Great Turn), but popularly known as the paquete (the "package"), was contrary to statements made during Pérez's populist campaign in which he had described the IMF as "a neutron bomb that killed people, but left buildings standing."

Measures taken by Pérez included privatizing state companies, tax reform, reducing customs duties, and diminishing the role of the state in the economy. He also took measures to decentralize and modernize the Venezuelan political system by the direct election of state governors, who had previously been appointed by the president. The most controversial part of the economic reform package was the elimination of the gasoline subsidies, which had long maintained domestic gasoline prices far beneath international levels and even the production costs. On the weekend of 25-26 February 1989, gasoline prices rose 100 per cent, as had been laid out in the economic adjustment program announced by the government on February 16. The fuel price increase in turn necessitated an increase in public transportation fares of 30 per cent officially, and more in practice as some carriers refused to limit their prices to the official rate."

Here is what happened when Argentina fully adopted the reforms proposed by the IMF during Menem's era:
"When Menem began his presidency, there was massive hyperinflation and a recession. Most economists of the time thought that the ideal solution was the Washington Consensus: reduce expenditures below the amount of money earned by the state, and open international commerce to free trade. Alfonsín had proposed similar plans in the past, alongside some privatization; but those projects were resisted by the PJ. The plan was resisted by factions benefiting from the protectionist policies, but the magnitude of the crisis convinced most politicians to change their minds. Menem, fearing that the crisis might force him to resign as well, embraced the Washington Consensus and rejected the traditional policies of Peronism. He invited the conservative politicians Álvaro Alsogaray and María Julia Alsogaray into his cabinet, as well as businessmen from Bunge and Born.[9]

Congress sanctioned the economic emergency law and the state reform law. The first allowed the president to reduce or remove subsidies, and the latter to privatize state enterprises – the first being telephones and airlines. These privatizations were beneficial to foreign creditors, who replaced their bonds with company shares.[10] Despite increased tax revenue, and the money from privatizations, the economy was still unstable. The Bunge and Born businessmen left the government in late 1989, amid a second round of hyperinflation. The first measure of the new minister of economy, Érman González, was a mandatory conversion of time deposits into government bonds: the Bonex plan. It generated more recession, but hyperinflation was reduced.[11][12] He also reduces social spending, including those for people with disabilities.[13]

His fourth minister of economy, Domingo Cavallo, was appointed in 1991. He deepened the neoliberal reforms. The Convertibility plan was sanctioned by the Congress, setting a one-to-one fixed exchange rate between the United States dollar and the new Argentine peso, which replaced the Austral. The law also limited public expenditures, but this was frequently ignored.[14] There was increased free trade to reduce inflation, and high taxes on sales and earnings to reduce the deficit caused by it.[10] Initially, the plan was a success: the capital flights ended, interest and inflation rates were lowered, and economic activity increased. The money from privatizations allowed Argentina to repurchase many of the Brady Bonds issued during the crisis.[15] The privatizations of electricity, water, and gas were more successful than previous ones. YPF, the national oil refinery, was privatized as well, but the state kept a good portion of the shares. The project to privatize the pension funds was resisted in Congress, and was approved as a mixed system that allowed both public and private options for workers. The national state also signed a fiscal pact with the provinces, so that they reduced their local deficits as well. Buenos Aires Province was helped with a fund that gave the governor a million pesos daily.[16]

Although the Convertibility plan had positive consequences in the short term, it caused problems that surfaced later. Large numbers of employees of privatized state enterprises were fired, and unemployment grew to over 10%. Big compensation payments prevented an immediate public reaction. The free trade, and the expensive costs in dollars, forced private companies to reduce the number of workers as well, or risk bankruptcy. Unions were unable to resist the changes. People with low incomes, such as retirees and state workers, suffered under tax increases while their wages remained frozen. The provinces of Santiago del Estero, Jujuy and San Juan had their first violent riots. To compensate for these problems, the government started a number of social welfare programs, and restored protectionist policies over some sectors of the economy. It was difficult for Argentine companies to export, and easy imports damaged most national producers. The national budget soon slid into deficit.[18]

Cavallo Saralelo began a second wave of privatizations with the Correo Argentino and the nuclear power plants. He also limited the amount of money released to the provinces. He still had the full support of Menem, despite growing opposition within the PJ. The Mexican Tequila Crisis impacted the national economy, causing a deficit, recession, and a growth in unemployment. The government further reduced public expenditures, the wages of state workers, and raised taxes. The deficit and recession were reduced, but unemployment stayed high.[19] External debt increased. The crisis also proved that the economic system was vulnerable to capital flight.[20] The growing discontent over unemployment and the scandals caused by the privatization of the Correo led to Cavallo's removal as minister, and his replacement by Roque Fernández.[21] Fernández maintained Cavallo's fiscal austerity. He increased the price of fuels, sold the state shares of YPF to Repsol, fired state employees, and increased the value-added tax to 21%. He also undertook more privatization. A new labor law was met with resistance, both by Peronists, opposition parties, and unions, and could not be approved by Congress. The 1997 Asian financial crisis and the 1998 Russian financial crisis also affected the country with consequences that lasted longer than the Tequilla Crisis and started a depression."
When has IMF-imposed austerity ever worked and didn't destroy living standards?