Alt-right. A terrorist movement in the making?

[Torrocca]

Except it is, as they came to America as second class citizens and only gained their independence 154 years ago. More generations of African-Americans have lived in chains than without.

"only gained their independence 154 years ago".

Christ, how much time needs to pass before you feel better?

There's still a metric fuckton of African-Americans alive today (and South Africans, as well, to emphasize this point) who lived under the brutal repressions of Jim Crow laws (and Apartheid).

[Bear Stearns]

Define white people.

According to the United States, individuals of European descent with light skin pigment.

So it's based on ancestry and genetics?

[Bear Stearns]

"only gained their independence 154 years ago".

Christ, how much time needs to pass before you feel better?

There's still a metric fuckton of African-Americans alive today (and South Africans, as well, to emphasize this point) who lived under the brutal repressions of Jim Crow laws (and Apartheid).

Yeah, and there's even more whites who lived under the horrible dictatorships of the 20th century. So what? Those systems have come to pass.

[Purgatio]

"only gained their independence 154 years ago".

Christ, how much time needs to pass before you feel better?

There's still a metric fuckton of African-Americans alive today (and South Africans, as well, to emphasize this point) who lived under the brutal repressions of Jim Crow laws (and Apartheid).

True, and there are also many impoverished white households today who have not tangibly benefitted from redlining, Jim Crow or slavery, in any way shape or form.

[Kragholm Free States]

Define white people.

According to the United States, individuals of European descent with light skin pigment.

So a first-generation Slovakian immigrant to the US somehow benefits from the Atlantic slave trade that happened centuries ago and that his nation never participated in?

[Torrocca]

There's still a metric fuckton of African-Americans alive today (and South Africans, as well, to emphasize this point) who lived under the brutal repressions of Jim Crow laws (and Apartheid).

Yeah, and there's even more whites who lived under the horrible dictatorships of the 20th century. So what? Those systems have come to pass.

Were those whites systematically oppressed on the basis of their skin color?

[-MAFDET-]

Except it is, as they came to America as second class citizens and only gained their independence 154 years ago. More generations of African-Americans have lived in chains than without.

My point is not that African-Americans didn't suffer during slavery. My point is that most white households today do not benefit in any tangible, economic sense from the injustice of slavery 150 years ago. Whatever fortune was earned by the wealthiest families in the Antebellum South was not retained in an unbroken chain of unbesmirched inheritances such that every white household today has been tangibly financially enriched from the institution of slavery, which is what your statement implied.

That is not my point either. The American system was created specifically to favor white citizens over people of color. The system is this way because African-Americans have always been second class citizens. So long as that system exists, white people will continue to hold a social advantage over black people.

[Kragholm Free States]

Yeah, and there's even more whites who lived under the horrible dictatorships of the 20th century. So what? Those systems have come to pass.

Were those whites systematically oppressed on the basis of their skin color?

They were systematically oppressed as the subjects of horrible dictatorships. Why does it matter whether their oppression was racially motivated?

[Bear Stearns]

Yeah, and there's even more whites who lived under the horrible dictatorships of the 20th century. So what? Those systems have come to pass.

Were those whites systematically oppressed on the basis of their skin color?

Some of them were oppressed over their ethnicity and religion.

[-MAFDET-]

According to the United States, individuals of European descent with light skin pigment.

So a first-generation Slovakian immigrant to the US somehow benefits from the Atlantic slave trade that happened centuries ago and that his nation never participated in?

He would generally have an easier experience than other non-white first generation immigrants.

[Kragholm Free States]

So a first-generation Slovakian immigrant to the US somehow benefits from the Atlantic slave trade that happened centuries ago and that his nation never participated in?

He would generally have an easier experience than other non-white first generation immigrants.

Prove it, and then prove that that is the result of the Atlantic slave trade.

[Bear Stearns]

My point is not that African-Americans didn't suffer during slavery. My point is that most white households today do not benefit in any tangible, economic sense from the injustice of slavery 150 years ago. Whatever fortune was earned by the wealthiest families in the Antebellum South was not retained in an unbroken chain of unbesmirched inheritances such that every white household today has been tangibly financially enriched from the institution of slavery, which is what your statement implied.

That is not my point either. The American system was created specifically to favor white citizens over people of color. The system is this way because African-Americans have always been second class citizens. So long as that system exists, white people will continue to hold a social advantage over black people.

America is doing a pretty crappy job of promoting white supremacy then, given that our government routinely enacts policies that harm whites. Would a white supremacist country give foreign aid to non-white nations, let in over 300,000 Central Americans in several migrant caravans, or even have affirmative action? Would a white supremacist nation impoverish the whitest parts of the country and tolerate white people having the highest rates of suicide and opioid addiction?

[Torrocca]

Were those whites systematically oppressed on the basis of their skin color?

Some of them were oppressed over their ethnicity and religion.

Ethnicity and religion aren't even tangentially related to skin color, however.

Were those whites systematically oppressed on the basis of their skin color?

They were systematically oppressed as the subjects of horrible dictatorships. Why does it matter whether their oppression was racially motivated?

Because oppression comes in vastly different forms, of course.

[Badb Catha]

And, of course, if race is just a social construct, then saying that any white person today is benefitting from it when they did not actually participate in it is completely arbitrary and meaningless.

Except it really isn’t. It’s a little thing called “white privilege”. Do look it up.

"White Privilege" is a myth manufactured by impoverished Black Americans who are upset with the status quo in the United States (that being the fact that Black Americans are predominantly impoverished) but rather than work themselves out of their situations through effort and hard-work (as many Black Americans have done) they would prefer to complain about non-existent (or at the least, very minor) institutional racism in an attempt to be coddled without wounding their pride by applying for welfare.

It is a product of the failure of the United States Federal Government to properly prepare formerly enslaved Black Americans for lives as Freemen, and later to be properly prepared for a racially inclusive society in the aftermath of the Civil Right's Movement. There are indeed many cases of institutional discrimination in the United States but the predominance of 'ethnic quotas' in American workplaces negate any notion of "White Privilege" from having any mainstream commonality.

Black Americans are disadvantaged not because of institutional or societal preference for White Americans but because of previous failures to properly integrate an uneducated, unskilled demographic into an advanced, industrialized, civilized society. Perhaps back then that might have been the intention, or perhaps not yet it became reality all the same. There is no way of knowing for sure. All that is known is that what we see today is the effects: a racial minority living mostly below the poverty line leading to a higher disposition toward crime, fewer educational opportunities, and fewer professional opportunities. It is not because of current institutional discrimination.

[Purgatio]

My point is not that African-Americans didn't suffer during slavery. My point is that most white households today do not benefit in any tangible, economic sense from the injustice of slavery 150 years ago. Whatever fortune was earned by the wealthiest families in the Antebellum South was not retained in an unbroken chain of unbesmirched inheritances such that every white household today has been tangibly financially enriched from the institution of slavery, which is what your statement implied.

That is not my point either. The American system was created specifically to favor white citizens over people of color. The system is this way because African-Americans have always been second class citizens. So long as that system exists, white people will continue to hold a social advantage over black people.

You say its not your point but then make statements like "white people will continue to hold a social advantage over black people", but if historical injustices like Jim Crow and redlining can't confer an unbroken chain of inherited wealth down several generations and across the span of decades and centuries (in the case of slavery), then I don't see how historical injustices can be said to confer on white people a continuing social advantage over black people. Its a matter of logic.

[Bear Stearns]

Some of them were oppressed over their ethnicity and religion.

Ethnicity and religion aren't even tangentially related to skin color, however.?

Because oppression comes in vastly different forms, of course.[/quote]

So why is skin color special?

[Kragholm Free States]

They were systematically oppressed as the subjects of horrible dictatorships. Why does it matter whether their oppression was racially motivated?

Because oppression comes in vastly different forms, of course.

Sure, that's fairly obvious. It's still all oppression, and it's still all bad, no matter what is used to justify it.

[Badb Catha]

I fear this thread has gotten off-track. Perhaps we should correct it's course before moderation intervention threatens to shut it down?

[Purgatio]

I fear this thread has gotten off-track. Perhaps we should correct it's course before moderation intervention threatens to shut it down?

That would be prudent, yeah

[Xmara]

Given what’s happened in the past few years, yes. I’d say it’s heading in that direction.

[-MAFDET-]

That is not my point either. The American system was created specifically to favor white citizens over people of color. The system is this way because African-Americans have always been second class citizens. So long as that system exists, white people will continue to hold a social advantage over black people.

You say its not your point but then make statements like "white people will continue to hold a social advantage over black people", but if historical injustices like Jim Crow and redlining can't confer an unbroken chain of inherited wealth down several generations and across the span of decades and centuries (in the case of slavery), then I don't see how historical injustices can be said to confer on white people a continuing social advantage over black people. Its a matter of logic.

That's a gross misunderstanding of the nature of white privilege. It does not mean that all white people are wealthy. It does not suggest that poor white people have never struggled.

White privilege is the birth child of racial bias and racism. Racial bias is a belief, conscious or otherwise, someone may have towards a particular race. When a white man is walking along the street and, upon facing a group of black men conversing with each other, chooses to cross the street rather than walk anywhere near them is an instance of bias. When a white person takes the time out of their day to call the police on a seemingly inactive black man that is actually behaving perfectly lawfully - that too is an instance of bias.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.thegua ... iladelphia

When a police officer attempts to justify shooting an unarmed person of color because he "feared for his life" - that is racial bias.

Racism is when these prejudical beliefs become rule of law. Technically, the existence of racism and racial bias is owed to the concept of racialization, which is the societal classification of humans beings into different groups based upon perceived physical differences, particularly skin color. In other words, the creation of race as a social construct.

This arbitrary grouping of other people, concocted by white settlers in this case, laid the foundation for the ongoing mistreatment of people of color. Inevitably, this gave birth to white privilege.
White privilege is the simple fact that your skn pigment is not one of the things that's making your life more difficult, while the reverse is true for people of color.

- White people are less likely to be followed or interrogated by law enforcement because they appear "suspicious"

-White people’s skin tone will not be a reason people hesitate to trust their credit or financial responsibility.

-If white people are accused of a crime, they are less likely to be presumed guilty, less likely to be sentenced to death and more likely to be portrayed in a fair, nuanced manner by media outlets

-The personal faults or missteps of white people will likely not be used to later deny opportunities or compassion to people who share their racial identity. My own father, who is a convicted felon, is currently working on a college degree, and has a job as a detox nurse. I am certain he would not have been able to reach this far had he not been white.


As I previously mentioned, non white people are generally more likely to be harassed by law enforcement. New York's now abandoned "Stop and Frisk" policy disproportionately targeted an extensive amount of black and latinex people. https://www.nyclu.org/en/stop-and-frisk-data

People of color are considerably more likely to be arrested for drug offenses despite using at a similar rate as white people. https://www.vox.com/2016/5/8/18089368/w ... eroin-meth

According to this data collected in 2017, unarmed and non-violent people of color are more likely to be shot by police than white people. https://policeviolencereport.org

These are the examples of white privilege that I have listed. I can think of more, but I'm too tired to do it. At any rate, I wrote an essay length post just for you.

[Gormwood]

You say its not your point but then make statements like "white people will continue to hold a social advantage over black people", but if historical injustices like Jim Crow and redlining can't confer an unbroken chain of inherited wealth down several generations and across the span of decades and centuries (in the case of slavery), then I don't see how historical injustices can be said to confer on white people a continuing social advantage over black people. Its a matter of logic.

That's a gross misunderstanding of the nature of white privilege. It does not mean that all white people are wealthy. It does not suggest that poor white people have never struggled.

White privilege is the birth child of racial bias and racism. Racial bias is a belief, conscious or otherwise, someone may how towards a particular race. When a white man is walking along the street and, upon facing a group of black men conversing with each other, chooses to cross the street rather than walk anywhere near them is an instance of bias. When a white person takes the time out of their day to call the police on a seemingly inactive black man that is actually behaving perfectly lawfully - that too is an instance of bias.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.thegua ... iladelphia

When a police officer attempts to justify shooting an unarmed person of color because he "feared for his life" - that is racial bias.

Racism is when these prejudical beliefs become rule of law. Technically, the existence of racism and racial bias is owed to the concept of racialization, which is the societal classification of humans beings into different groups based upon perceived physical differences, particularly skin color. In other words, the creation of race as a social construct.

This arbitrary grouping of other people, concocted by white settlers in this case, laid the foundation for the ongoing mistreatment of people of color. Inevitably, this gave birth to white privilege.
White privilege is the simple fact that your skn pigment is not one of the things that making your life more difficult, while the reverse is true for people of color.

- White people are less likely to be followed or interrogated by law enforcement because they appear "suspicious"

-White people’s skin tone will not be a reason people hesitate to trust their credit or financial responsibility.

-If white people are accused of a crime, they are less likely to be presumed guilty, less likely to be sentenced to death and more likely to be portrayed in a fair, nuanced manner by media outlets

-The personal faults or missteps of white people will likely not be used to later deny opportunities or compassion to people who share their racial identity. My own father, who is a convicted felon, is currently working on a college degree, and has a job as a detox nurse. I am certain he would not have been able to reach this far had he not been white.


As I previously mentioned, non white people are generally more likely to be harassed by law enforcement. New York's now abandoned "Stop and Frisk" policy disproportionately targeted an extensive amount of black and latinex people. https://www.nyclu.org/en/stop-and-frisk-data

People of color are considerably more likely to be arrested for drug offenses despite using at a similar rate as white people. https://www.vox.com/2016/5/8/18089368/w ... eroin-meth

According to this data collected in 2017, unarmed and non-violent people of color are more likely to be shot by police than white people. https://policeviolencereport.org

These are the examples of white privilege that I have listed. I can think of more, but I'm too tired to do it. At any rate, I wrote an essay length post just for you.

Don't forget the string of BBQ Becky incidents.

[Czechoslovakia and Zakarpattia]

That is not my point either. The American system was created specifically to favor white citizens over people of color. The system is this way because African-Americans have always been second class citizens. So long as that system exists, white people will continue to hold a social advantage over black people.

America is doing a pretty crappy job of promoting white supremacy then, given that our government routinely enacts policies that harm whites. Would a white supremacist country give foreign aid to non-white nations, let in over 300,000 Central Americans in several migrant caravans, or even have affirmative action? Would a white supremacist nation impoverish the whitest parts of the country and tolerate white people having the highest rates of suicide and opioid addiction?

Have you ever wondered why are there so many caravans from Central America to begin with? I bet not many average Joes are aware of this simple historical fact for why the migrants keep coming whether there is a GOP or Dem-led government:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_St ... in_America
Remember Operation PBSUCCESS?

[Purgatio]

You say its not your point but then make statements like "white people will continue to hold a social advantage over black people", but if historical injustices like Jim Crow and redlining can't confer an unbroken chain of inherited wealth down several generations and across the span of decades and centuries (in the case of slavery), then I don't see how historical injustices can be said to confer on white people a continuing social advantage over black people. Its a matter of logic.

That's a gross misunderstanding of the nature of white privilege. It does not mean that all white people are wealthy. It does not suggest that poor white people have never struggled.

White privilege is the birth child of racial bias and racism. Racial bias is a belief, conscious or otherwise, someone may how towards a particular race. When a white man is walking along the street and, upon facing a group of black men conversing with each other, chooses to cross the street rather than walk anywhere near them is an instance of bias. When a white person takes the time out of their day to call the police on a seemingly inactive black man that is actually behaving perfectly lawfully - that too is an instance of bias.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.thegua ... iladelphia

When a police officer attempts to justify shooting an unarmed person of color because he "feared for his life" - that is racial bias.

Racism is when these prejudical beliefs become rule of law. Technically, the existence of racism and racial bias is owed to the concept of racialization, which is the societal classification of humans beings into different groups based upon perceived physical differences, particularly skin color. In other words, the creation of race as a social construct.

This arbitrary grouping of other people, concocted by white settlers in this case, laid the foundation for the ongoing mistreatment of people of color. Inevitably, this gave birth to white privilege.
White privilege is the simple fact that your skn pigment is not one of the things that making your life more difficult, while the reverse is true for people of color.

- White people are less likely to be followed or interrogated by law enforcement because they appear "suspicious"

-White people’s skin tone will not be a reason people hesitate to trust their credit or financial responsibility.

-If white people are accused of a crime, they are less likely to be presumed guilty, less likely to be sentenced to death and more likely to be portrayed in a fair, nuanced manner by media outlets

-The personal faults or missteps of white people will likely not be used to later deny opportunities or compassion to people who share their racial identity. My own father, who is a convicted felon, is currently working on a college degree, and has a job as a detox nurse. I am certain he would not have been able to reach this far had he not been white.


As I previously mentioned, non white people are generally more likely to be harassed by law enforcement. New York's now abandoned "Stop and Frisk" policy disproportionately targeted an extensive amount of black and latinex people. https://www.nyclu.org/en/stop-and-frisk-data

People of color are considerably more likely to be arrested for drug offenses despite using at a similar rate as white people. https://www.vox.com/2016/5/8/18089368/w ... eroin-meth

According to this data collected in 2017, unarmed and non-violent people of color are more likely to be shot by police than white people. https://policeviolencereport.org

These are the examples of white privilege that I have listed. I can think of more, but I'm too tired to do it. At any rate, I wrote an essay length post just for you.

1) African-Americans and Hispanics are not 'disproportionately' targeted by Stop and Frisk, because Stop and Frisk is intended to catch potential criminals, and members of those ethnic groups are disproportionately over-represented amongst violent criminals. In the same way as, when the FBI looks for serial killers, it disproportionatly focusses on white men because white men are overrepresented amongst the serial killer population.

2) The myth about black people being arrested for drug offences when they use drugs at the same rate as whites rests on a legal misunderstanding, in the 1960s when anti-drug legislation was passed it penalised more heavily the possession and sale of crack cocaine as opposed to powder cocaine, with the support of African-American community leaders and lawmakers (https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2012/04/19/five_myths_of_the_racist_criminal_justice_system_113894.html), because at the time crack cocaine was more inexpensive and therefore more likely to be consumed in larger quantities by users, and hence warranted a harsher deterrent mandatory minimum. Because African-American drug users were disproportionately more likely to consume crack cocaine compared to powder cocaine than their white counterparts, this resulted in a sentencing disparity even though average drug consumption rates between the two races was similar.

3) Another myth, African-Americans are more likely to be shot by the police but are also more likely to commit crimes and therefore more likely than whites to have interactions with the police in the first place (https://www.nationalreview.com/2017/09/police-violence-against-black-men-rare-heres-what-data-actually-say/)

[US-SSR]

Most terrorists these days -- at least the most damaging ones -- seem to be white and "Christian."