Alt-right. A terrorist movement in the making?

[Zordennox]

Prove it, I always see this idiotic claim yet its people like antifa always talking about how whites are going to go extinct and that its a good thing.
All i've ever seen from the "altright" is that they want to live in white communities without being part of a state and society that constantly demonizes white people and sees them as a group to be eliminated from existence.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unite_the_Right_rally
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centennia ... rk_bombing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorado_ ... d_shooting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_City_bombing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Berg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlesto ... h_shooting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Copeland
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2%8 ... _shootings
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Munich_shooting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisconsin ... e_shooting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittsburg ... e_shooting
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/29/us/s ... oting.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Behring_Breivik
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trollh%C3 ... ool_attack
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Jo_Cox
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christchu ... _shootings
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_2 ... g_attempts
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson ... r_shooting

On average, that's 19 killed, 76 wounded. How about the left?

Leftist violence:

https://www.conservapedia.com/Left_Wing ... ted_States
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_kill ... st_regimes
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_m ... orth_Korea
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Cuba
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_terrorism

[The Rich Port]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unite_the_Right_rally
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centennia ... rk_bombing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorado_ ... d_shooting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_City_bombing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Berg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlesto ... h_shooting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Copeland
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2%8 ... _shootings
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Munich_shooting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisconsin ... e_shooting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittsburg ... e_shooting
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/29/us/s ... oting.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Behring_Breivik
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trollh%C3 ... ool_attack
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Jo_Cox
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christchu ... _shootings
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_2 ... g_attempts
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson ... r_shooting

On average, that's 19 killed, 76 wounded. How about the left?

Gotta disagree with having Oklahoma City in there. Whilst McVeigh did read the Turner Diaries and did draw some inspiration from them and other such works (which isn't shocking, Pierce wrote a great deal on the modern Urban Guerilla concept) it was mainly an anti-federal attack, not an alt-right or racist attack.

Since when has anti-federalism been an antithesis to right wing ideology?

It was motivated by racist ideology and conspiracy theory thinking. Even if he's not alt-right, he was DEFINITELY a Neo-Nazi and he was DEFINITELY right wing.

Granted, that's not proof that the right wing is inherently more violent than the left wing, but it DOES mean that they're more active. Besides, labeling them as more dangerous is praise to many alt-right and Neo-Nazis, not detraction.

And frankly, having Trump in the Oval Office doesn't assuage fears that he's going soft on them in favor of the imagined threat of migrant caravan invasions.

It's bad enough right wing media keeps Neo-Nazi influence out of their mouths for fears that they'll be insensitive to their oh-so-oppressed viewer base.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Gotta disagree with having Oklahoma City in there. Whilst McVeigh did read the Turner Diaries and did draw some inspiration from them and other such works (which isn't shocking, Pierce wrote a great deal on the modern Urban Guerilla concept) it was mainly an anti-federal attack, not an alt-right or racist attack.

Since when has anti-federalism been an antithesis to right wing ideology?

It was motivated by racist ideology and conspiracy theory thinking. Even if he's not alt-right, he was DEFINITELY a Neo-Nazi and he was DEFINITELY right wing.

Granted, that's not proof that the right wing is inherently more violent than the left wing, but it DOES mean that they're more active. Besides, labeling them as more dangerous is praise to many alt-right and Neo-Nazis, not detraction.

And frankly, having Trump in the Oval Office doesn't assuage fears that he's going soft on them in favor of the imagined threat of migrant caravan invasions.

It's bad enough right wing media keeps Neo-Nazi influence out of their mouths for fears that they'll be insensitive to their oh-so-oppressed viewer base.

Oh it's not antithetical to right wing ideology, I'm just saying the attack rather explicitly was not done on racial grounds or for neo-Nazi style stuff. He was really open about the fact that it was revenge for Waco.

[Amuaplye]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unite_the_Right_rally
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centennia ... rk_bombing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorado_ ... d_shooting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_City_bombing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Berg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlesto ... h_shooting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Copeland
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2%8 ... _shootings
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Munich_shooting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisconsin ... e_shooting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittsburg ... e_shooting
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/29/us/s ... oting.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Behring_Breivik
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trollh%C3 ... ool_attack
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Jo_Cox
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christchu ... _shootings
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_2 ... g_attempts
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson ... r_shooting

On average, that's 19 killed, 76 wounded. How about the left?

Leftist violence:

https://www.conservapedia.com/Left_Wing ... ted_States
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_kill ... st_regimes
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_m ... orth_Korea
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Cuba
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_terrorism

As in specific events. If we're counting genocides too, add this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_genocide
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Guernica

[Zordennox]

Leftist violence:

https://www.conservapedia.com/Left_Wing ... ted_States
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_kill ... st_regimes
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_m ... orth_Korea
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Cuba
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_terrorism

As in specific events. If we're counting genocides too, add this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_genocide
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Guernica

Still, Leftism has killed far more people than Rightism has. You can't deny this fact based on the data. In fact, more people were killed in the Holodomor than in the Holocaust.

[Amuaplye]

As in specific events. If we're counting genocides too, add this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_genocide
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Guernica

Still, Leftism has killed far more people than Rightism has. You can't deny this fact based on the data. In fact, more people were killed in the Holodomor than in the Holocaust.

Yes, but this isn't about atrocities under left or right-wing regimes, this is about terrorism.

[Diarcesia]

As in specific events. If we're counting genocides too, add this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_genocide
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Guernica

Still, Leftism has killed far more people than Rightism has. You can't deny this fact based on the data. In fact, more people were killed in the Holodomor than in the Holocaust.

Amuaplye is debunking the argument that "there is no right-wing terrorism"

[The Rich Port]

Since when has anti-federalism been an antithesis to right wing ideology?

It was motivated by racist ideology and conspiracy theory thinking. Even if he's not alt-right, he was DEFINITELY a Neo-Nazi and he was DEFINITELY right wing.

Granted, that's not proof that the right wing is inherently more violent than the left wing, but it DOES mean that they're more active. Besides, labeling them as more dangerous is praise to many alt-right and Neo-Nazis, not detraction.

And frankly, having Trump in the Oval Office doesn't assuage fears that he's going soft on them in favor of the imagined threat of migrant caravan invasions.

It's bad enough right wing media keeps Neo-Nazi influence out of their mouths for fears that they'll be insensitive to their oh-so-oppressed viewer base.

Oh it's not antithetical to right wing ideology, I'm just saying the attack rather explicitly was not done on racial grounds or for neo-Nazi style stuff. He was really open about the fact that it was revenge for Waco.

He was inspired enough by the Turner Diaries to carry out the mass murder of over a hundred Americans.

Evidently, the fact that it was written by the leader of the Aryan Nations didn't really dissuade him from using the book for inspiration.

He associated with Nazis, read Nazi propaganda, and today he is deified by Nazis.

Even if he wasn't a Nazi before, which I doubt he wasn't, the alt-right has made him into one of their own.

And frankly, they can have him.

[Amuaplye]

He was inspired enough by the Turner Diaries to carry out the mass murder of over two dozen Americans.

Who, McVeigh? He killed 168, not 24+.

[The Rich Port]

He was inspired enough by the Turner Diaries to carry out the mass murder of over two dozen Americans.

Who, McVeigh? He killed 168, not 24+.

Blegh, misread the line -_-

Over a hundred Americans, then.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

There was little functional difference. Mussolini himself praised Stalin's system at one point iirc.

>worker ownership of the MoP is the same as class warfare on workers

The Soviet system under Stalin worked for the proletariat. Under Stalin there was democracy in the workplace, economic planning, and a socialist system. In my experience, anyone who equates soviet socialism with fascism is historically and politically illiterate.

Actually, the opposite is true. Soviet apologists are politically and historically illiterate, and revisionist lying academics does not change that. The central government was far from democratic, and there are countless cases where the Soviet Union did not help the workers it supposedly represented, and suppression of anti-government sentiment was commonplace.

[Arayas]

Still, Leftism has killed far more people than Rightism has. You can't deny this fact based on the data. In fact, more people were killed in the Holodomor than in the Holocaust.

Amuaplye is debunking the argument that "there is no right-wing terrorism"

Its easy to debunk Strawman arguments no one made.
His list is an assortment of unaffiliated people that he categorizes as "alt-right" despite the fact that the most violent acts occurred before the term alt-right was even conceived of.
A Number are Random Murders that are claimed to have a racial motive
And the ones that are explicitely political don't profess an allegiance to an "altright" cause.

Which was the Original Claim of the OP that the "Alt-right" in itself was a terrorist movement or "one in the making"
The claim wasn't weather people who share beliefs with the right or alt-right can't be terrorists.

The post he responded to was to my response of someone claiming that all "Fascists" (read: anyone Marxists disagree with politically) want to commit Genocide, which is untrue. Then Amuaplye replied with a list of random "right wing" terrorists as proof that all right wingers endorse genocide?

But this is what Leftists do, they tailor their definitions and guilt by association so they can create a more convincing strawman.

Meanwhile a thousand people can get killed by Terrorists explicitly citing Islam as their motivation and say that it had nothing to do with Islam

[Washington Resistance Army]

Oh it's not antithetical to right wing ideology, I'm just saying the attack rather explicitly was not done on racial grounds or for neo-Nazi style stuff. He was really open about the fact that it was revenge for Waco.

He was inspired enough by the Turner Diaries to carry out the mass murder of over a hundred Americans.

Evidently, the fact that it was written by the leader of the Aryan Nations didn't really dissuade him from using the book for inspiration.

He associated with Nazis, read Nazi propaganda, and today he is deified by Nazis.

Even if he wasn't a Nazi before, which I doubt he wasn't, the alt-right has made him into one of their own.

And frankly, they can have him.

Tbh anyone who is big into asymmetric warfare should at least be aware of Pierce's writings, if not having read a good chunk of them. He took a lot Maoist style concepts and much like the Red Army Faction tried to modernize them a bit and adapt them to different situations. Interesting stuff, and I can see why someone who wanted to oof the fed would gravitate towards them.

[Amuaplye]

Amuaplye is debunking the argument that "there is no right-wing terrorism"

Meanwhile a thousand people can get killed by Terrorists explicitly citing Islam as their motivation and say that it had nothing to do with Islam

I never said that. And, yes, if they cite Islam as their motivation, it's Islamic terrorism. Hence the name.

[Arayas]

He was inspired enough by the Turner Diaries to carry out the mass murder of over a hundred Americans.

Evidently, the fact that it was written by the leader of the Aryan Nations didn't really dissuade him from using the book for inspiration.

He associated with Nazis, read Nazi propaganda, and today he is deified by Nazis.

Even if he wasn't a Nazi before, which I doubt he wasn't, the alt-right has made him into one of their own.

And frankly, they can have him.

Tbh anyone who is big into asymmetric warfare should at least be aware of Pierce's writings, if not having read a good chunk of them. He took a lot Maoist style concepts and much like the Red Army Faction tried to modernize them a bit and adapt them to different situations. Interesting stuff, and I can see why someone who wanted to oof the fed would gravitate towards them.

It's like saying that reading the Che Guevaras books on guerilla warfare automatically makes the reader a communist regardless of what they are actually fighting for, which is ridiculous

[Amuaplye]

Tbh anyone who is big into asymmetric warfare should at least be aware of Pierce's writings, if not having read a good chunk of them. He took a lot Maoist style concepts and much like the Red Army Faction tried to modernize them a bit and adapt them to different situations. Interesting stuff, and I can see why someone who wanted to oof the fed would gravitate towards them.

It's like saying that reading the Che Guevaras books on guerilla warfare automatically makes the reader a communist regardless of what they are actually fighting for, which is ridiculous

Thing is, McVeigh supported Pierce's writings, the Turner Diaries in particular.

[The Rich Port]

He was inspired enough by the Turner Diaries to carry out the mass murder of over a hundred Americans.

Evidently, the fact that it was written by the leader of the Aryan Nations didn't really dissuade him from using the book for inspiration.

He associated with Nazis, read Nazi propaganda, and today he is deified by Nazis.

Even if he wasn't a Nazi before, which I doubt he wasn't, the alt-right has made him into one of their own.

And frankly, they can have him.

Tbh anyone who is big into asymmetric warfare should at least be aware of Pierce's writings, if not having read a good chunk of them. He took a lot Maoist style concepts and much like the Red Army Faction tried to modernize them a bit and adapt them to different situations. Interesting stuff, and I can see why someone who wanted to oof the fed would gravitate towards them.

You want to read a book about asymmetric warfare, you read a book about asymmetric warfare that covers Mao and not some two-bit American Hitler wannabe, you don't read The Turner Diaries unless Zionist Occupied Government Mary Sues get your Nazi rocks off.

Tbh anyone who is big into asymmetric warfare should at least be aware of Pierce's writings, if not having read a good chunk of them. He took a lot Maoist style concepts and much like the Red Army Faction tried to modernize them a bit and adapt them to different situations. Interesting stuff, and I can see why someone who wanted to oof the fed would gravitate towards them.

It's like saying that reading the chest books on guerilla warfare automatically makes the reader a communist regardless of what they are actually fighting for, which is ridiculous

I mean, I read them and became a Communist guerilla member right after. I also read expanded treatises on them in military books, because, guess what: I recognized that those are inherently biased and I didn't want to only read Communist books.

Difference between The Turner Diaries and those is that those aren't racist for no good reason. Oh, and I'm not a mass murderer either, but that seems irrelevant.

Also, oh the irony of fascist apologism for Communist insurgency tactics being ripped off by a Nazi.

Also also, Wash, you seem weirdly familiar with the tactics used in The Turner Diaries, to cite them as somehow accurate and effective.

I frankly would have just read a book about asymmetric warfare, like, say, How The Weak Win Wars by Ivan Arreguin-Toft.

Never really read The Turner Diaries. I suppose I should since it seems so dang popular.

[Arayas]

It's like saying that reading the Che Guevaras books on guerilla warfare automatically makes the reader a communist regardless of what they are actually fighting for, which is ridiculous

Thing is, McVeigh supported Pierce's writings, the Turner Diaries in particular.

Ok? And I can support Che's tactics on conducting guerilla warfare, it doesn't make me a communist.

Pierce was a a National Socialist who wanted to see the establishment of powerful authoritarian Fascist states.

Where's McVeigh was essentially a minarchist.

Yet they are both considered right wing extremists, which should give you insight into how broad thaterm is

[Amuaplye]

Thing is, McVeigh supported Pierce's writings, the Turner Diaries in particular.

Ok? And I can support Che's tactics on conducting guerilla warfare, it doesn't make me a communist.

Pierce was a a National Socialist who wanted to see the establishment of powerful authoritarian Fascist states.

Where's McVeigh was essentially a minarchist.

Yet they are both considered right wing extremists, which should give you insight into how broad thaterm is

Which is the point. McVeigh was a right-wing extremist, therefore, the bombing he committed is considered a right-wing terrorist attack, and therefore disproves your point.

Q.E.D.

[Arayas]

Ok? And I can support Che's tactics on conducting guerilla warfare, it doesn't make me a communist.

Pierce was a a National Socialist who wanted to see the establishment of powerful authoritarian Fascist states.

Where's McVeigh was essentially a minarchist.

Yet they are both considered right wing extremists, which should give you insight into how broad thaterm is

Which is the point. McVeigh was a right-wing extremist, therefore, the bombing he committed is considered a right-wing terrorist attack, and therefore disproves your point.

Q.E.D.

No it doesn't because I never made the claim that "right wingers" can't be terrorists

L.T.R.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Also also, Wash, you seem weirdly familiar with the tactics used in The Turner Diaries, to cite them as somehow accurate and effective.

ngl fam I've been on a roll absorbing every bit of info I can on different guerrilla warfare theories lately. I've been reading stuff from Mao, Che, the Red Army Faction, PIRA stuff, the National Socialist Liberation Front, Pierce's magazine articles detailing target acquisition and psyops etc etc. If you have any more suggestions shoot me my way.

[Amuaplye]

Which is the point. McVeigh was a right-wing extremist, therefore, the bombing he committed is considered a right-wing terrorist attack, and therefore disproves your point.

Q.E.D.

No it doesn't because I never made the claim that "right wingers" can't be terrorists

L.T.R.

All i've ever seen from the "altright" is that they want to live in white communities without being part of a state and society that constantly demonizes white people and sees them as a group to be eliminated from existence.

[The Rich Port]

Also also, Wash, you seem weirdly familiar with the tactics used in The Turner Diaries, to cite them as somehow accurate and effective.

ngl fam I've been on a roll absorbing every bit of info I can on different guerrilla warfare theories lately. I've been reading stuff from Mao, Che, the Red Army Faction, PIRA stuff, the National Socialist Liberation Front, Pierce's magazine articles detailing target acquisition and psyops etc etc. If you have any more suggestions shoot me my way.

Just... Do me a favor and stay away from Neo-Nazi wank fics, please.

Although, saying that, I'm going to have to read Turner now so I can make fun of the fact Pierce copied Communist concepts and didn't bother to credit them.

https://books.google.com/books?id=GHBOY ... re&f=false
https://books.google.com/books?id=BluwC ... re&f=false

These are two I remember reading, everything else is either Wikipedia skimming for convenience and random articles on the Internet and academic databases.

[Arayas]

And the alt-right didn't exist when McVeigh did his bombing.

So what is your argument exactly? That based on an extremely broad definition of "alt-right and cherry picked events you can implicate broad schools of thought as inherently violent?

By that standard every political position is a terrorist movement in the making.

[The Rich Port]

And the alt-right didn't exist when McVeigh did his bombing.

So what is your argument exactly? That based on an extremely broad definition of "alt-right and cherry picked events you can implicate broad schools of thought as inherently violent?

By that standard every political position is a terrorist movement in the making.

Clearly, you haven't tried to read The Turner Diaries.

Either you have and you either are or are not nauseated by just how ignorant and terrible of a writer that hack Pierce is and realize that it takes being that ignorant and that full of yourself to be able to sit through it, let alone skim it, and find it at all a pleasurable experience, OR, you haven't, and won't, because you'd rather pretend McVeigh wasn't influenced by Neo-Nazi propaganda and that now Neo-Nazis consider him a hero.