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Alt-right. A terrorist movement in the making?

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Farnhamia
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Founded: Jun 20, 2006
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Farnhamia » Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:24 pm

Czechoslovakia and Zakarpattia wrote:
Eternal Lotharia wrote:...Do you even study international relations, history, and economics dude?

I ain't calling the USA track record pure but that's a stupidly oversimplified viewpoint that is utterly wrong.

please study several books even ones who's conclusions you disagree with. The Might of Nations, Tragedy of Great Power Politics, and Diplomacy are excellent starts.


"A fall in oil prices in the mid-1980s caused an economic crisis to take hold in Venezuela, and the country had accrued significant levels of debt. Nevertheless, the administration of the left-leaning President Jaime Lusinchi was able to restructure the country's debt repayments and offset an economic crisis but allow for the continuation of the government's policies of social spending and state-sponsored subsidies.[9]

Lusinchi's political party, the Democratic Action, was able to remain in power following the 1988 election of Carlos Andrés Pérez as president. Pérez received 53% of the vote, while laissez-faire candidates gained another at least 40%. Pérez then proposed a major shift in policy by implementing neoliberal economic reforms recommended by the International Monetary Fund (IMF). The program, called El Gran Viraje (The Great Turn), but popularly known as the paquete (the "package"), was contrary to statements made during Pérez's populist campaign in which he had described the IMF as "a neutron bomb that killed people, but left buildings standing."

Measures taken by Pérez included privatizing state companies, tax reform, reducing customs duties, and diminishing the role of the state in the economy. He also took measures to decentralize and modernize the Venezuelan political system by the direct election of state governors, who had previously been appointed by the president. The most controversial part of the economic reform package was the elimination of the gasoline subsidies, which had long maintained domestic gasoline prices far beneath international levels and even the production costs. On the weekend of 25-26 February 1989, gasoline prices rose 100 per cent, as had been laid out in the economic adjustment program announced by the government on February 16. The fuel price increase in turn necessitated an increase in public transportation fares of 30 per cent officially, and more in practice as some carriers refused to limit their prices to the official rate."

Here is what happened when Argentina fully adopted the reforms proposed by the IMF during Menem's era:
"When Menem began his presidency, there was massive hyperinflation and a recession. Most economists of the time thought that the ideal solution was the Washington Consensus: reduce expenditures below the amount of money earned by the state, and open international commerce to free trade. Alfonsín had proposed similar plans in the past, alongside some privatization; but those projects were resisted by the PJ. The plan was resisted by factions benefiting from the protectionist policies, but the magnitude of the crisis convinced most politicians to change their minds. Menem, fearing that the crisis might force him to resign as well, embraced the Washington Consensus and rejected the traditional policies of Peronism. He invited the conservative politicians Álvaro Alsogaray and María Julia Alsogaray into his cabinet, as well as businessmen from Bunge and Born.[9]

Congress sanctioned the economic emergency law and the state reform law. The first allowed the president to reduce or remove subsidies, and the latter to privatize state enterprises – the first being telephones and airlines. These privatizations were beneficial to foreign creditors, who replaced their bonds with company shares.[10] Despite increased tax revenue, and the money from privatizations, the economy was still unstable. The Bunge and Born businessmen left the government in late 1989, amid a second round of hyperinflation. The first measure of the new minister of economy, Érman González, was a mandatory conversion of time deposits into government bonds: the Bonex plan. It generated more recession, but hyperinflation was reduced.[11][12] He also reduces social spending, including those for people with disabilities.[13]

His fourth minister of economy, Domingo Cavallo, was appointed in 1991. He deepened the neoliberal reforms. The Convertibility plan was sanctioned by the Congress, setting a one-to-one fixed exchange rate between the United States dollar and the new Argentine peso, which replaced the Austral. The law also limited public expenditures, but this was frequently ignored.[14] There was increased free trade to reduce inflation, and high taxes on sales and earnings to reduce the deficit caused by it.[10] Initially, the plan was a success: the capital flights ended, interest and inflation rates were lowered, and economic activity increased. The money from privatizations allowed Argentina to repurchase many of the Brady Bonds issued during the crisis.[15] The privatizations of electricity, water, and gas were more successful than previous ones. YPF, the national oil refinery, was privatized as well, but the state kept a good portion of the shares. The project to privatize the pension funds was resisted in Congress, and was approved as a mixed system that allowed both public and private options for workers. The national state also signed a fiscal pact with the provinces, so that they reduced their local deficits as well. Buenos Aires Province was helped with a fund that gave the governor a million pesos daily.[16]

Although the Convertibility plan had positive consequences in the short term, it caused problems that surfaced later. Large numbers of employees of privatized state enterprises were fired, and unemployment grew to over 10%. Big compensation payments prevented an immediate public reaction. The free trade, and the expensive costs in dollars, forced private companies to reduce the number of workers as well, or risk bankruptcy. Unions were unable to resist the changes. People with low incomes, such as retirees and state workers, suffered under tax increases while their wages remained frozen. The provinces of Santiago del Estero, Jujuy and San Juan had their first violent riots. To compensate for these problems, the government started a number of social welfare programs, and restored protectionist policies over some sectors of the economy. It was difficult for Argentine companies to export, and easy imports damaged most national producers. The national budget soon slid into deficit.[18]

Cavallo Saralelo began a second wave of privatizations with the Correo Argentino and the nuclear power plants. He also limited the amount of money released to the provinces. He still had the full support of Menem, despite growing opposition within the PJ. The Mexican Tequila Crisis impacted the national economy, causing a deficit, recession, and a growth in unemployment. The government further reduced public expenditures, the wages of state workers, and raised taxes. The deficit and recession were reduced, but unemployment stayed high.[19] External debt increased. The crisis also proved that the economic system was vulnerable to capital flight.[20] The growing discontent over unemployment and the scandals caused by the privatization of the Correo led to Cavallo's removal as minister, and his replacement by Roque Fernández.[21] Fernández maintained Cavallo's fiscal austerity. He increased the price of fuels, sold the state shares of YPF to Repsol, fired state employees, and increased the value-added tax to 21%. He also undertook more privatization. A new labor law was met with resistance, both by Peronists, opposition parties, and unions, and could not be approved by Congress. The 1997 Asian financial crisis and the 1998 Russian financial crisis also affected the country with consequences that lasted longer than the Tequilla Crisis and started a depression."
When has IMF-imposed austerity ever worked and didn't destroy living standards?

I'm sure you'll get a good grade on this but what does it have to do with the Alt-Right being a potential terrorist movement? Do try to mention the actual topic once per page.
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Now the foot is on the other hand ~ Kannap
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Czechoslovakia and Zakarpattia
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Founded: Dec 01, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Czechoslovakia and Zakarpattia » Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:28 pm

Farnhamia wrote:
Czechoslovakia and Zakarpattia wrote:
"A fall in oil prices in the mid-1980s caused an economic crisis to take hold in Venezuela, and the country had accrued significant levels of debt. Nevertheless, the administration of the left-leaning President Jaime Lusinchi was able to restructure the country's debt repayments and offset an economic crisis but allow for the continuation of the government's policies of social spending and state-sponsored subsidies.[9]

Lusinchi's political party, the Democratic Action, was able to remain in power following the 1988 election of Carlos Andrés Pérez as president. Pérez received 53% of the vote, while laissez-faire candidates gained another at least 40%. Pérez then proposed a major shift in policy by implementing neoliberal economic reforms recommended by the International Monetary Fund (IMF). The program, called El Gran Viraje (The Great Turn), but popularly known as the paquete (the "package"), was contrary to statements made during Pérez's populist campaign in which he had described the IMF as "a neutron bomb that killed people, but left buildings standing."

Measures taken by Pérez included privatizing state companies, tax reform, reducing customs duties, and diminishing the role of the state in the economy. He also took measures to decentralize and modernize the Venezuelan political system by the direct election of state governors, who had previously been appointed by the president. The most controversial part of the economic reform package was the elimination of the gasoline subsidies, which had long maintained domestic gasoline prices far beneath international levels and even the production costs. On the weekend of 25-26 February 1989, gasoline prices rose 100 per cent, as had been laid out in the economic adjustment program announced by the government on February 16. The fuel price increase in turn necessitated an increase in public transportation fares of 30 per cent officially, and more in practice as some carriers refused to limit their prices to the official rate."

Here is what happened when Argentina fully adopted the reforms proposed by the IMF during Menem's era:
"When Menem began his presidency, there was massive hyperinflation and a recession. Most economists of the time thought that the ideal solution was the Washington Consensus: reduce expenditures below the amount of money earned by the state, and open international commerce to free trade. Alfonsín had proposed similar plans in the past, alongside some privatization; but those projects were resisted by the PJ. The plan was resisted by factions benefiting from the protectionist policies, but the magnitude of the crisis convinced most politicians to change their minds. Menem, fearing that the crisis might force him to resign as well, embraced the Washington Consensus and rejected the traditional policies of Peronism. He invited the conservative politicians Álvaro Alsogaray and María Julia Alsogaray into his cabinet, as well as businessmen from Bunge and Born.[9]

Congress sanctioned the economic emergency law and the state reform law. The first allowed the president to reduce or remove subsidies, and the latter to privatize state enterprises – the first being telephones and airlines. These privatizations were beneficial to foreign creditors, who replaced their bonds with company shares.[10] Despite increased tax revenue, and the money from privatizations, the economy was still unstable. The Bunge and Born businessmen left the government in late 1989, amid a second round of hyperinflation. The first measure of the new minister of economy, Érman González, was a mandatory conversion of time deposits into government bonds: the Bonex plan. It generated more recession, but hyperinflation was reduced.[11][12] He also reduces social spending, including those for people with disabilities.[13]

His fourth minister of economy, Domingo Cavallo, was appointed in 1991. He deepened the neoliberal reforms. The Convertibility plan was sanctioned by the Congress, setting a one-to-one fixed exchange rate between the United States dollar and the new Argentine peso, which replaced the Austral. The law also limited public expenditures, but this was frequently ignored.[14] There was increased free trade to reduce inflation, and high taxes on sales and earnings to reduce the deficit caused by it.[10] Initially, the plan was a success: the capital flights ended, interest and inflation rates were lowered, and economic activity increased. The money from privatizations allowed Argentina to repurchase many of the Brady Bonds issued during the crisis.[15] The privatizations of electricity, water, and gas were more successful than previous ones. YPF, the national oil refinery, was privatized as well, but the state kept a good portion of the shares. The project to privatize the pension funds was resisted in Congress, and was approved as a mixed system that allowed both public and private options for workers. The national state also signed a fiscal pact with the provinces, so that they reduced their local deficits as well. Buenos Aires Province was helped with a fund that gave the governor a million pesos daily.[16]

Although the Convertibility plan had positive consequences in the short term, it caused problems that surfaced later. Large numbers of employees of privatized state enterprises were fired, and unemployment grew to over 10%. Big compensation payments prevented an immediate public reaction. The free trade, and the expensive costs in dollars, forced private companies to reduce the number of workers as well, or risk bankruptcy. Unions were unable to resist the changes. People with low incomes, such as retirees and state workers, suffered under tax increases while their wages remained frozen. The provinces of Santiago del Estero, Jujuy and San Juan had their first violent riots. To compensate for these problems, the government started a number of social welfare programs, and restored protectionist policies over some sectors of the economy. It was difficult for Argentine companies to export, and easy imports damaged most national producers. The national budget soon slid into deficit.[18]

Cavallo Saralelo began a second wave of privatizations with the Correo Argentino and the nuclear power plants. He also limited the amount of money released to the provinces. He still had the full support of Menem, despite growing opposition within the PJ. The Mexican Tequila Crisis impacted the national economy, causing a deficit, recession, and a growth in unemployment. The government further reduced public expenditures, the wages of state workers, and raised taxes. The deficit and recession were reduced, but unemployment stayed high.[19] External debt increased. The crisis also proved that the economic system was vulnerable to capital flight.[20] The growing discontent over unemployment and the scandals caused by the privatization of the Correo led to Cavallo's removal as minister, and his replacement by Roque Fernández.[21] Fernández maintained Cavallo's fiscal austerity. He increased the price of fuels, sold the state shares of YPF to Repsol, fired state employees, and increased the value-added tax to 21%. He also undertook more privatization. A new labor law was met with resistance, both by Peronists, opposition parties, and unions, and could not be approved by Congress. The 1997 Asian financial crisis and the 1998 Russian financial crisis also affected the country with consequences that lasted longer than the Tequilla Crisis and started a depression."
When has IMF-imposed austerity ever worked and didn't destroy living standards?

I'm sure you'll get a good grade on this but what does it have to do with the Alt-Right being a potential terrorist movement? Do try to mention the actual topic once per page.

We were postulating the reasoning behind Central and Latin America's instability and why exactly does the U.S. receive migrant caravans to begin with. Simple history. But alright, we shouldn't get too offtopic. Debating whether or not neoliberalism is harmful is good material for an entirely new thread.

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Farnhamia
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Founded: Jun 20, 2006
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Farnhamia » Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:29 pm

Czechoslovakia and Zakarpattia wrote:
Farnhamia wrote:I'm sure you'll get a good grade on this but what does it have to do with the Alt-Right being a potential terrorist movement? Do try to mention the actual topic once per page.

We were postulating the reasoning behind Central and Latin America's instability and why exactly does the U.S. receive migrant caravans to begin with. Simple history. But alright, we shouldn't get too offtopic. Debating whether or not neoliberalism is harmful is good material for an entirely new thread.

Thanks.
Last edited by Farnhamia on Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Make Earth Great Again: Stop Continental Drift!
And Jesus was a sailor when he walked upon the water ...
"Make yourself at home, Frank. Hit somebody." RIP Don Rickles
My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. ~ Carl Schurz
<Sigh> NSG...where even the atheists are Augustinians. ~ The Archregimancy
Now the foot is on the other hand ~ Kannap
RIP Dyakovo ... Ashmoria (Freedom ... or cake)
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-Ocelot-
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Postby -Ocelot- » Tue Apr 30, 2019 1:58 am

Sapientia Et Bellum wrote:Im just saying that terrorism isnt terrorism to those who believe in it and its worthwhile to do a deep dive into why they believe they are justified cause usually its a whole lot fucking more than just "batshit insane".... No political mass murderer has done it under reason of insanity, they have a point that they want to make and we gotta entertain that point whether we like it or not.... we are doomed to repeat the 1930s if we ignore these individuals and dont try to figure out why they are doing what they are doing


Terrorism has a very clear, objective definition. And the causes of the alt-right are conspiracy theories and events that aren't even real.

We should not legitimize an ideology that's based around systemic violence, boogeymen and fairy tales.
Last edited by -Ocelot- on Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Kowani
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Postby Kowani » Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:05 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Prydania wrote:So the bloody obvious? Gotcha. Good to know. People do things because they want to do them.

Though I do think you're a bit off the mark if you don't think gunning down worshippers is objectively wrong.


I don't really think anything is objectively right or wrong. Such things are totally subjective.

So that’s what I look like…
Are you okay, WRA?
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RiderSyl
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Postby RiderSyl » Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:34 am

The alt-right isn't a terrorist movement. It's a political movement that's attractive to terrorists. There's a difference.
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GrarG
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Postby GrarG » Tue Apr 30, 2019 3:06 am

The so-called 'Alt-Right' can never be a true terrorist movement because the inspiration for much of its actions, violent or otherwise, is treated with deep hostility by all authorities, driving the ideologues into anonymous settings and ultimately denying them any and all opportunity to set up real world connected networks. All terrorist attacks from such groups have been entirely one-man affairs, with no wider network of logistical or ideological support, because such networks are made impossible in the current climate.

The reason nationalist terrorism is no longer a factor is because nationalism has become not only a taboo in Western society (with good reason) but because it is virtually non-existent in the general population. While there are people who would (and do) commit terrorist attacks for purely nationalist reasons, the position of the overton window makes implicit support for such things nigh impossible.

Furthermore most 'Alt-Right' believers are not traditional nationalists but are generally white supremacists, for example a UK citizen who identifies with this movement feels more affinity for a white Australian or German than for a black Englishman. This makes their beliefs even further away from accepted discourse and prevents them for associating publicly, which makes recruitment for a terrorist organisation entirely impossible.

It is therefore incorrect to call them a terrorist 'movement,' as they will not be able to organise publicly in any meaningful way, unlike the religious terrorists who can associate and recruit publicly among coreligionists as long as their religious devotions remain a publicly acceptable practice. Although lone-wolf attacks will continue into the foreseeable future, they will continue to be entirely ineffective at any and all their goals, and will succeed only in creating greater problems for those they claim to fight for.
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Kowani
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Postby Kowani » Tue Apr 30, 2019 3:22 am

RiderSyl wrote:The alt-right isn't a terrorist movement. It's a political movement that's attractive to terrorists. There's a difference.

Distinction without difference.
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Washington Resistance Army
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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Tue Apr 30, 2019 3:25 am

Kowani wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
I don't really think anything is objectively right or wrong. Such things are totally subjective.

So that’s what I look like…
Are you okay, WRA?


I'm fine. I've always rejected objective morality or whatnot.
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Page
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Postby Page » Tue Apr 30, 2019 3:27 am

GrarG wrote:Although lone-wolf attacks will continue into the foreseeable future, they will continue to be entirely ineffective at any and all their goals, and will succeed only in creating greater problems for those they claim to fight for.


The acts of terrorism committed by white supremacists and right-wing extremists cannot accurately be described as lone wolf attacks, even in such cases when a single individual plans an attack without the assistance of anyone else.

The alt-right promotes stochastic terrorism. It is a game of probability. Incite millions and at least one person will act. There are no targets specified, there is no contract between a terrorist and an organization. There is only incitement with the knowledge that someone somewhere will do something.

Daesh uses this tactic. Many individuals who have committed acts of terrorism in the name of Daesh have never spoken to anyone about their plans. It is understood by those spreading propaganda that someone will eventually act. Yet when an individual carries out an attack, Daesh will claim credit despite the fact there was never a conspiracy between the terrorist and the ones who incited them. We do not call these terrorists "lone wolves" and we should not refer to alt-right terrorists any differently.
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The Xenopolis Confederation
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Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Tue Apr 30, 2019 3:38 am

I don't think it's organized enough to be classified as a terrorist movement. I will however say that the alt-right proper. Not bloody Ben Shapiro or Tim Pool or whoever gets labelled alt-right, but the real self-identified card carrying modern alternative right, hold some of the most unspeakably vile beliefs in the modern west. Their values and beliefs are so inhumane, most of them were applauding the Christchurch Shooter.
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Postby Kowani » Tue Apr 30, 2019 3:39 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Kowani wrote:So that’s what I look like…
Are you okay, WRA?


I'm fine. I've always rejected objective morality or whatnot.

…I like you now.
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Neo-Routhengard
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Postby Neo-Routhengard » Tue Apr 30, 2019 4:43 am

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:I don't think it's organized enough to be classified as a terrorist movement. I will however say that the alt-right proper. Not bloody Ben Shapiro or Tim Pool or whoever gets labelled alt-right, but the real self-identified card carrying modern alternative right, hold some of the most unspeakably vile beliefs in the modern west. Their values and beliefs are so inhumane, most of them were applauding the Christchurch Shooter.


As a person who got labeled as "alt-right" for upholding the "innocent until proven guilty" notion and for being a non-confrontational statist (due to religion more than anything), I agree with these words.
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Kragholm Free States
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Postby Kragholm Free States » Tue Apr 30, 2019 5:15 am

Page wrote:
GrarG wrote:Although lone-wolf attacks will continue into the foreseeable future, they will continue to be entirely ineffective at any and all their goals, and will succeed only in creating greater problems for those they claim to fight for.


The acts of terrorism committed by white supremacists and right-wing extremists cannot accurately be described as lone wolf attacks, even in such cases when a single individual plans an attack without the assistance of anyone else.

The alt-right promotes stochastic terrorism. It is a game of probability. Incite millions and at least one person will act. There are no targets specified, there is no contract between a terrorist and an organization. There is only incitement with the knowledge that someone somewhere will do something.

Daesh uses this tactic. Many individuals who have committed acts of terrorism in the name of Daesh have never spoken to anyone about their plans. It is understood by those spreading propaganda that someone will eventually act. Yet when an individual carries out an attack, Daesh will claim credit despite the fact there was never a conspiracy between the terrorist and the ones who incited them. We do not call these terrorists "lone wolves" and we should not refer to alt-right terrorists any differently.


We tend not to call them "ISIS/Daesh terrorist attacks" until that organisation claims responsibility for them though. Until then, they're just radical Islamist terrorist attacks, with no real implication of an organisation's involvement until we have good reason to believe an organisation was involved. How many times has that oh-so-organised and united entity known as "the alt-right" actually made a claim of responsibility for any of the attacks committed by individual white supremacists, neo-nazis, or whatever else?
Last edited by Kragholm Free States on Tue Apr 30, 2019 5:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Fedel
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Ex-Nation

Postby Fedel » Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:22 am

Page wrote:
GrarG wrote:Although lone-wolf attacks will continue into the foreseeable future, they will continue to be entirely ineffective at any and all their goals, and will succeed only in creating greater problems for those they claim to fight for.


The acts of terrorism committed by white supremacists and right-wing extremists cannot accurately be described as lone wolf attacks, even in such cases when a single individual plans an attack without the assistance of anyone else.

The alt-right promotes stochastic terrorism. It is a game of probability. Incite millions and at least one person will act. There are no targets specified, there is no contract between a terrorist and an organization. There is only incitement with the knowledge that someone somewhere will do something.


If that's the case, the same could be said about literally any terror attack carried out by anybody. This "incitement" as you refer to it is literally just the statements, attitudes and actions of people that caused these individuals who worked on their own to act. Either nobody's at fault or everybody is ( I.E. the people who's vulgar humor planted those ideas and the the people who's actions and words the terrorists disliked enough to carry out the action ).

The only real way to solve that would be to ban all potentially inflammatory/offensive speech, both on the right and the left. I don't think this is a route you want to go down.

If the alt-right was an actual organized group dedicated to radicalizing people, you might have a point. As it is now though, they're mostly people who feel they've been disenfranchised shitposting on the internet. Taking away their platforms only disenfranchises them further which will, imo, only accelerate the rater of these "lone wolf terror attacks." Perhaps even spur it on into a full on organized movement as you've now given credibility to their fears.
Last edited by Fedel on Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:33 am, edited 10 times in total.

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-MAFDET-
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Founded: Feb 03, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby -MAFDET- » Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:35 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Kowani wrote:So that’s what I look like…
Are you okay, WRA?


I'm fine. I've always rejected objective morality or whatnot.


If their views are rooted upon the denial of another human being's existence, then they are objectively wrong.
Last edited by -MAFDET- on Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The Emerald Legion
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Alt-right. A terrorist movement in the making?

Postby The Emerald Legion » Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:46 am

Evil Dictators Happyland wrote:
Skarten wrote:If we're being honest here, as much as i disagree with most of what these people say, the modern left kinda brought this upon themselves in the way they've been acting.

*ding ding ding ding* And we have our first "but the left is just as bad because ANTIFA!" poster. Don't worry, there will be more, and definitely don't ask them to explain why antifa is just as bad, because they won't.


I mean, I've explained why the modern left personally scares the living shit out of me multiple times. I mostly get told I'm crazy and there's no way a movement associated with brutal social harassment, calls to censor and deperson their political opponents, open and public calls to violence, firebombings, and repeated assassination attempts on opposing government officials... All while maintaining not just the tacit, but the explicit support of their base, who tend to conflate having pale skin or a Y chromosome with being a Quisling to a secret fascist society, could possibly go wrong.

Mind you, the Alt Right are fucking Nazis so fuck them and the horse they rode in on. But 'But the evil Nazis exist and have the approximate societal influence of a minimum wage worker.' is not an excuse for the lefts current bullshit.

It's not bothsame.

The left is vastly more dangerous to American liberty than the Neo Nazis are or ever will be again. The Neo Nazis are a pile of broken glass in the corner and the Modern Left is a beer can pyramid full of Nitroglycerin on a hilltop on a windy day.
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Prydania
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Prydania » Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:04 am

The Emerald Legion wrote:I mean, I've explained why the modern left personally scares the living shit out of me multiple times...

The left is vastly more dangerous to American liberty than the Neo Nazis are or ever will be again.

You know who scares the living shit out of me? You know who I think is the more dangerous group? The group with members shooting up my fellow Jews in synagogues as they worship.
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The Emerald Legion
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Father Knows Best State

Postby The Emerald Legion » Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:14 am

Prydania wrote:
The Emerald Legion wrote:I mean, I've explained why the modern left personally scares the living shit out of me multiple times...

The left is vastly more dangerous to American liberty than the Neo Nazis are or ever will be again.

You know who scares the living shit out of me? You know who I think is the more dangerous group? The group with members shooting up my fellow Jews in synagogues as they worship.


:roll:

They hurt a handful of people and shape no policy. Clearly more dangerous than the ones who hurt people and also have political power.
"23.The unwise man is awake all night, and ponders everything over; when morning comes he is weary in mind, and all is a burden as ever." - Havamal

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Prydania
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Prydania » Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:17 am

The Emerald Legion wrote:
Prydania wrote:You know who scares the living shit out of me? You know who I think is the more dangerous group? The group with members shooting up my fellow Jews in synagogues as they worship.


:roll:

They hurt a handful of people and shape no policy. Clearly more dangerous than the ones who hurt people and also have political power.

Can you tell me which synagogue or mosque radical leftists have shot up?

Sorry. The group that’s a threat to people’s well being is the one going out and actually killing people. Not your imagined political boogeymen.
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The Emerald Legion
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Postby The Emerald Legion » Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:19 am

Prydania wrote:
The Emerald Legion wrote:
:roll:

They hurt a handful of people and shape no policy. Clearly more dangerous than the ones who hurt people and also have political power.

Can you tell me which synagogue or mosque radical leftists have shot up?

Sorry. The group that’s a threat to people’s well being is the one going out and actually killing people. Not your imagined political boogeymen.


That their targets aren't churches doesn't make their bullets imaginary.
"23.The unwise man is awake all night, and ponders everything over; when morning comes he is weary in mind, and all is a burden as ever." - Havamal

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Prydania
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Prydania » Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:24 am

The Emerald Legion wrote:
Prydania wrote:Can you tell me which synagogue or mosque radical leftists have shot up?

Sorry. The group that’s a threat to people’s well being is the one going out and actually killing people. Not your imagined political boogeymen.


That their targets aren't churches doesn't make their bullets imaginary.

lol I say “synagogues and mosques” and you say “churches.” Telling.
See that’s your problem. There are radicalized right wing white nationalists killing Jews and Muslims in their places of worship, but this doesn’t affect you. And so you’re willing to disregard the people who are actually killing other human beings to insist that the people you disagree with politically are the real threat.
Has the right become so shameless that it needs to downplay even extreme right terrorism that kills people in the name of bashing the leftist boogeyman?

Again. Right wing white nationalists are gunning down people in their houses of worship, whatever you’re scared of isn’t. If you’re not in the crosshairs of the right wing nationalist terrorists? Maybe that doesn’t register with you, but learn some G-ddamn empathy.
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Fedel
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Postby Fedel » Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:29 am

Prydania wrote:
The Emerald Legion wrote:
That their targets aren't churches doesn't make their bullets imaginary.

lol I say “synagogues and mosques” and you say “churches.” Telling.


But they didn't say churches.

They said "just because their targets AREN'T churches."

Are you bothering to read the posts of the people you respond to?

Prydania wrote:See that’s your problem. There are radicalized right wing white nationalists killing Jews and Muslims in their places of worship, but this doesn’t affect you. And so you’re willing to disregard the people who are actually killing other human beings to insist that the people you disagree with politically are the real threat.


They explicitly stated that they believe the radical left poses a BIGGER threat to people in general and not that the right didn't pose any threat at all. How is that the same as disregarding other people's suffering?
Last edited by Fedel on Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:32 am, edited 2 times in total.

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The Emerald Legion
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Postby The Emerald Legion » Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:32 am

Prydania wrote:
The Emerald Legion wrote:
That their targets aren't churches doesn't make their bullets imaginary.

lol I say “synagogues and mosques” and you say “churches.” Telling.
See that’s your problem. There are radicalized right wing white nationalists killing Jews and Muslims in their places of worship, but this doesn’t affect you. And so you’re willing to disregard the people who are actually killing other human beings to insist that the people you disagree with politically are the real threat.
Has the right become so shameless that it needs to downplay even extreme right terrorism that kills people in the name of bashing the leftist boogeyman?

Again. Right wing white nationalists are gunning down people in their houses of worship, whatever you’re scared of isn’t. If you’re not in the crosshairs of the right wing nationalist terrorists? Maybe that doesn’t register with you, but learn some G-ddamn empathy.


A church is a church. You can call it whatever you want. Whether it's a standing stone circle or a Mosque or a Synagogue.

It's a place of religious worship. AKA church.

And that's your problem. There are radicalized leftists Firebombing GOP offices and attempting to assassinate GOP officials. All the while conducting a massive harassment campaign against them, and attacking them in the streets.

People are also dying to left wing bullshit. And yet you want to worry about a group who's total income was less than a minimum wage worker, and has no serious political pull because they had a handful of lone wolf attacks.

Fuck that bullshit.
"23.The unwise man is awake all night, and ponders everything over; when morning comes he is weary in mind, and all is a burden as ever." - Havamal

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Prydania
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Prydania » Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:36 am

Fedel wrote:
Prydania wrote:lol I say “synagogues and mosques” and you say “churches.” Telling.


But they didn't say churches.

They said "just because their targets AREN'T churches."

Are you bothering to read the posts of the people you respond to?

They used the word “church” to stand in as a generic house of worship. IE the right wing terrorists who shoot up synagogues and mosques are targeting “churches.”
I am claiming that these people who shoot up “churches” are a real threat because, well, they’ve killed people.
The Emerald Legion is saying leftist political forces are the real threat and that their efforts aren’t “imaginary” just because they don’t shoot up “churches.” IE houses of worship. Get it?

So yes I do read what I respond to.

My other point (aside from saying the people who are killing others are the real threat) is that I found it telling that a guy claiming right wing white nationalist terrorism is also using a Christian word to describe Jewish and Islamic houses of worship.
Last edited by Prydania on Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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