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The Greater Ohio Valley
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Founded: Jan 19, 2013
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Postby The Greater Ohio Valley » Thu May 23, 2019 9:30 pm

Chernoslavia wrote:
The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:Then you’re going to need to seriously elaborate on the meaning of your “nope” in reply to me saying that you’d change your tune on mandatory vaccination programs in the event of another major Spanish-flu level pandemic, because it seems to be that your “nope” was saying “I’m so against mandatory vaccination that’d I’d be against it even if tens/hundreds of millions were dead and dying and the only way stopping it was mandatory vaccination”.


I would get vaccinated if it means I'll die from infection if I don't, that doesn't mean however that I'm for forcing people to get them. You can knock it off with the ''either this or'' crap.

Yet the most efficient way of dealing with a pandemic would be government mandated vaccination in order to halt and prevent further spread of the disease.
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Chernoslavia
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Postby Chernoslavia » Thu May 23, 2019 9:36 pm

Highever wrote:
Chernoslavia wrote:
That's not me saying I'd rather die.

I'm sure that initially they will take it to court but militias have been training for decades in case something like this happens, so yes they will resist, and government will not have the resources to enforce such laws and suppress dissent.

Again, the few tiny groups that would actually be willing to get themselves killed fighting the government over vaccines are not going to pose some sort of revolutionary threat or be so numerous as to be completely unmanageable. I dont know why you have such a fervent fantasy of seeing this be a thing but I'm sorry to tell you it really won't be.


I don't think a million or so people rebelling is a tiny bunch and you clearly know nothing of guerilla warfare and underestimating the enemy is a good way of losing, but go ahead and think what you want. And your little fantasy of dragging people out of their homes with guns pointed at em will not become reality and in the unlikely event that it does, you're going to lose because A. You are not in position to go home to home and door to door and force people to get vaccinations and B. You will not get support from atleast half the US military and speaking of the military you will not even get to use them at all to enforce your law as it is a clear violation of Posse Comitatus.
Last edited by Chernoslavia on Thu May 23, 2019 9:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

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Chernoslavia
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Postby Chernoslavia » Thu May 23, 2019 9:44 pm

The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:
Chernoslavia wrote:
I would get vaccinated if it means I'll die from infection if I don't, that doesn't mean however that I'm for forcing people to get them. You can knock it off with the ''either this or'' crap.

Yet the most efficient way of dealing with a pandemic would be government mandated vaccination in order to halt and prevent further spread of the disease.


Most efficient or not, you can't just force people to do what you want, and that only works if y'know people are willing to obey. You can reduce the spread of disease by educating the public as well.
Last edited by Chernoslavia on Thu May 23, 2019 9:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

- Alexander Solzhenitsyn

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The Greater Ohio Valley
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Postby The Greater Ohio Valley » Thu May 23, 2019 11:54 pm

Chernoslavia wrote:
The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:Yet the most efficient way of dealing with a pandemic would be government mandated vaccination in order to halt and prevent further spread of the disease.


Most efficient or not, you can't just force people to do what you want, and that only works if y'know people are willing to obey. You can reduce the spread of disease by educating the public as well.

You certainly can force people to do what you want, if what you want is mandatory vaccination, in the middle of a literal crisis where is a disease is killing a metric fuckton of people and the most efficient and effective way to solve it is mandatory vaccination.
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The Greater Ohio Valley
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Postby The Greater Ohio Valley » Thu May 23, 2019 11:58 pm

Chernoslavia wrote:
Highever wrote:Again, the few tiny groups that would actually be willing to get themselves killed fighting the government over vaccines are not going to pose some sort of revolutionary threat or be so numerous as to be completely unmanageable. I dont know why you have such a fervent fantasy of seeing this be a thing but I'm sorry to tell you it really won't be.


I don't think a million or so people rebelling is a tiny bunch and you clearly know nothing of guerilla warfare and underestimating the enemy is a good way of losing, but go ahead and think what you want. And your little fantasy of dragging people out of their homes with guns pointed at em will not become reality and in the unlikely event that it does, you're going to lose because A. You are not in position to go home to home and door to door and force people to get vaccinations and B. You will not get support from atleast half the US military and speaking of the military you will not even get to use them at all to enforce your law as it is a clear violation of Posse Comitatus.


If you’d launch an armed rebellion in response to mandatory vaccination then you’d be making yourself out to be the villain in that scenario as your rebellion would cause more physical harm and death than the vaccinations themselves.
Last edited by The Greater Ohio Valley on Thu May 23, 2019 11:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Highever
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Postby Highever » Fri May 24, 2019 2:53 am

Chernoslavia wrote:
Highever wrote:Again, the few tiny groups that would actually be willing to get themselves killed fighting the government over vaccines are not going to pose some sort of revolutionary threat or be so numerous as to be completely unmanageable. I dont know why you have such a fervent fantasy of seeing this be a thing but I'm sorry to tell you it really won't be.


I don't think a million or so people rebelling is a tiny bunch and you clearly know nothing of guerilla warfare and underestimating the enemy is a good way of losing, but go ahead and think what you want. And your little fantasy of dragging people out of their homes with guns pointed at em will not become reality and in the unlikely event that it does, you're going to lose because A. You are not in position to go home to home and door to door and force people to get vaccinations and B. You will not get support from atleast half the US military and speaking of the military you will not even get to use them at all to enforce your law as it is a clear violation of Posse Comitatus.

A million people are willing to start a second civil war over potential mandatory vaccinations? Care to explain where you got such a number?

I'm not the one living in a fantasy. The fantasy falls squarely in your court, where you think a million people are going to jump to war with the country over vaccines. Even more if you think it will cause a massive mutiny among the armed forces and law enforcement. As Ohio said, anyone that is willing to embark on a guerilla war over vaccines and start killing people are not going to be seen with much sympathy. And again, only the most extreme are going to jump to grabbing their guns and shoot people over vaccines. If a million people are against vaccinations, only a minute fraction of those are going to be so idiotic and radical as to immediately turn to and insurrection.

Once again, I'm very sorry to tell you your twisted dream of a civil war over vaccines is laughable and absurd. Dont even know why you are so giddy over the concept, but you are going to have to find a different cause to see your fantasy become a reality.
Last edited by Highever on Fri May 24, 2019 2:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Andsed
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Postby Andsed » Fri May 24, 2019 3:59 am

Chernoslavia wrote:
Kowani wrote:And if not forcing people would cause others to die?


This is starting to sound like the occasional ''what if people die'' argument for banning guns.

But this is not hypothetical. There have already been outbreaks the largest we have seen in years due to anti vaxxers. Not being vaccinated does and will put others in dangers. Saying otherwise is simply nonsensical.
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Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Fri May 24, 2019 4:02 am

Andsed wrote:
Chernoslavia wrote:
This is starting to sound like the occasional ''what if people die'' argument for banning guns.

But this is not hypothetical. There have already been outbreaks the largest we have seen in years due to anti vaxxers. Not being vaccinated does and will put others in dangers. Saying otherwise is simply nonsensical.

Lol like public health is something worth caring about.

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Duhon
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Postby Duhon » Fri May 24, 2019 4:04 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Andsed wrote:But this is not hypothetical. There have already been outbreaks the largest we have seen in years due to anti vaxxers. Not being vaccinated does and will put others in dangers. Saying otherwise is simply nonsensical.

Lol like public health is something worth caring about.


If you wanna die that badly, go elsewhere.

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Andsed
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Postby Andsed » Fri May 24, 2019 4:04 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Andsed wrote:But this is not hypothetical. There have already been outbreaks the largest we have seen in years due to anti vaxxers. Not being vaccinated does and will put others in dangers. Saying otherwise is simply nonsensical.

Lol like public health is something worth caring about.

Damm don’t cut yourself on all that edge buddy. Also I know you love spewing out on how you don’t care about others well being but the rest of us and those who would get sick do.
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Amazing Andsed quotes:
Ok lets get back on topic so we don´t get this thread locked thanks to talking about my church windmill dancing.
Andsed is not legally responsible for any injuries that may occur if you take this seriously and somehow get a trebuchet and try to fling yourself into a plane. You fucking dumbass
NationStates going from serious debates about homosexuality to jokes about Jesus a marijuana dealer in the span of one to two posts since November 13 2002.
Sorry my mind is always in the gutter no it lives in gutter my mind is fuckin called pennywise it is in the gutter so much.
How does one outsource racism? Do you like get an Indian guy to call people and call them racial slurs?

LOVEWHOYOUARE~

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Valentine Z
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Postby Valentine Z » Fri May 24, 2019 4:11 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Andsed wrote:But this is not hypothetical. There have already been outbreaks the largest we have seen in years due to anti vaxxers. Not being vaccinated does and will put others in dangers. Saying otherwise is simply nonsensical.

Lol like public health is something worth caring about.


Not pointing at you yourself as a person, but that statement of yours has got to be the dumbest thing I have ever heard all-time.

It's not even worth retorting because of how god-awfully wrong it is.
Last edited by Valentine Z on Fri May 24, 2019 4:15 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Thermodolia
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Postby Thermodolia » Fri May 24, 2019 4:14 am

Chernoslavia wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:See this is what I mean by outlandish claims. And if you want a war I’ll give you one. The full might of the state vs a terrorist group. I wonder who will win.

Ah “libertarians” always destroying the thing they love the most because of their own stupidity.


Not outlandish at all, if government oversteps their authority it is only natural for insurrections to happen in a country where they value them the most. Okay cool, come and get me then tough guy, make this fun for us. And what makes you think you'll have the ''full might of the state'' backing you up?

Because the propaganda is too great. Seriously it’s you and your marry band of terrorists who will get rightly portrayed as grandma killing, baby murdering monsters because you don’t want others to be health and they want to kill Americans because they don’t like how the government is trying to help heal people.

Seriously dude you’d look like a maniac and most likely cause PATRIOT ACT 2.0
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Postby Thermodolia » Fri May 24, 2019 4:19 am

Chernoslavia wrote:
Sanctum and Ultima wrote:Yeah, and that dissent is from people that gets facts about vaccines wrong. Go drink some vodka or something instead of trolling NSG.


And from people who don't think government should have the power to forcibly drag people out of their homes and pump fluids into their bodies. Also, that's racist bro, it's the current year. Besides, I prefer bourbon more.

And this is why everyone thinks your an anti-vaxxer because they are the only ones who spout this nonsense
Male, Titoist cultural nationalist, lives somewhere in the Deep South, give me any good Irish, Canadian, or Scottish whiskey and I will be your friend for life. I'm GAY!
I'm agent #69 in the Gaystapo!
>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
>>Dumb Ideologies: Why not turn yourself into a penguin and build an igloo at the centre of the Earth?
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Postby Thermodolia » Fri May 24, 2019 4:21 am

Highever wrote:
Chernoslavia wrote:
Prove it.

And what makes you think they won't? There's already many dissent against the thought of mandatory vaccinations.

That whole bit about not changing your mind even if it would prevent millions of desth?

They won't. Or if there are actually people that insane who would actively raise arms and kill people to defend their right to be a needless risk to others it is incredibly small. 99% of the whackjobs that ignore basic science and clear evidence are going to take their fight to court, not the battlefield. And those few that do are not going to be any sort of threat. Hell, you send in a negotiator contaminated with measles in some way and there you go. "Insurrection" over.

Free blankets!! Get your free, totally not measles infested, blankets here!!
Male, Titoist cultural nationalist, lives somewhere in the Deep South, give me any good Irish, Canadian, or Scottish whiskey and I will be your friend for life. I'm GAY!
I'm agent #69 in the Gaystapo!
>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
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Thermodolia
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Postby Thermodolia » Fri May 24, 2019 4:23 am

Chernoslavia wrote:
Highever wrote:That whole bit about not changing your mind even if it would prevent millions of desth?

They won't. Or if there are actually people that insane who would actively raise arms and kill people to defend their right to be a needless risk to others it is incredibly small. 99% of the whackjobs that ignore basic science and clear evidence are going to take their fight to court, not the battlefield. And those few that do are not going to be any sort of threat. Hell, you send in a negotiator contaminated with measles in some way and there you go. "Insurrection" over.


That's not me saying I'd rather die.

I'm sure that initially they will take it to court but militias have been training for decades in case something like this happens, so yes they will resist, and government will not have the resources to enforce such laws and suppress dissent.

Most militias would amount to no more than terrorists. Do you really think that a bunch of fat guys with guns are going to stop the US military?
Male, Titoist cultural nationalist, lives somewhere in the Deep South, give me any good Irish, Canadian, or Scottish whiskey and I will be your friend for life. I'm GAY!
I'm agent #69 in the Gaystapo!
>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
>>Dumb Ideologies: Why not turn yourself into a penguin and build an igloo at the centre of the Earth?
>Xovland: I keep getting ads for printer ink. Sometimes, when you get that feeling down there, you have to look at some steamy printer pictures.
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Thermodolia
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Postby Thermodolia » Fri May 24, 2019 4:24 am

Chernoslavia wrote:
Highever wrote:Again, the few tiny groups that would actually be willing to get themselves killed fighting the government over vaccines are not going to pose some sort of revolutionary threat or be so numerous as to be completely unmanageable. I dont know why you have such a fervent fantasy of seeing this be a thing but I'm sorry to tell you it really won't be.


I don't think a million or so people rebelling is a tiny bunch and you clearly know nothing of guerilla warfare and underestimating the enemy is a good way of losing, but go ahead and think what you want. And your little fantasy of dragging people out of their homes with guns pointed at em will not become reality and in the unlikely event that it does, you're going to lose because A. You are not in position to go home to home and door to door and force people to get vaccinations and B. You will not get support from atleast half the US military and speaking of the military you will not even get to use them at all to enforce your law as it is a clear violation of Posse Comitatus.

Dude you are required to be vaccinated while in the military. The military will back the vaccinations over your terrorists.

Also an during open Insurrection Posse Comitatus can be waived to contain it. Congratulations you have just provided me with everything i ever wanted
Last edited by Thermodolia on Fri May 24, 2019 4:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
Male, Titoist cultural nationalist, lives somewhere in the Deep South, give me any good Irish, Canadian, or Scottish whiskey and I will be your friend for life. I'm GAY!
I'm agent #69 in the Gaystapo!
>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
>>Dumb Ideologies: Why not turn yourself into a penguin and build an igloo at the centre of the Earth?
>Xovland: I keep getting ads for printer ink. Sometimes, when you get that feeling down there, you have to look at some steamy printer pictures.
Click for Da Funies
Click Here for RP Info Embassy Program
Ambassadors to the WA:
Ambassador to the GA Jon Æthr
Ambassador to the SC Eve Šanœ

RIP Dya

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Greater vakolicci haven
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Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Fri May 24, 2019 5:11 am

Thermodolia wrote:
Chernoslavia wrote:
That's not me saying I'd rather die.

I'm sure that initially they will take it to court but militias have been training for decades in case something like this happens, so yes they will resist, and government will not have the resources to enforce such laws and suppress dissent.

Most militias would amount to no more than terrorists. Do you really think that a bunch of fat guys with guns are going to stop the US military?

Terrorism in defence of liberty can be justified.

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Thermodolia
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Postby Thermodolia » Fri May 24, 2019 5:14 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:Most militias would amount to no more than terrorists. Do you really think that a bunch of fat guys with guns are going to stop the US military?

Terrorism in defence of liberty can be justified.

Mandatory vaccinations aren’t threatening liberty, that would be the terrorists opposing them
Male, Titoist cultural nationalist, lives somewhere in the Deep South, give me any good Irish, Canadian, or Scottish whiskey and I will be your friend for life. I'm GAY!
I'm agent #69 in the Gaystapo!
>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
>>Dumb Ideologies: Why not turn yourself into a penguin and build an igloo at the centre of the Earth?
>Xovland: I keep getting ads for printer ink. Sometimes, when you get that feeling down there, you have to look at some steamy printer pictures.
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Greater vakolicci haven
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Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Fri May 24, 2019 5:16 am

Thermodolia wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:Terrorism in defence of liberty can be justified.

Mandatory vaccinations aren’t threatening liberty, that would be the terrorists opposing them

We have a right to decide what goes in our bodies and what doesn't.

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Highever
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Postby Highever » Fri May 24, 2019 5:17 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:Most militias would amount to no more than terrorists. Do you really think that a bunch of fat guys with guns are going to stop the US military?

Terrorism in defence of liberty can be justified.

I totally agree. Fighting a terror campaign over vaccines however, does not fit the bill.
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Highever
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Postby Highever » Fri May 24, 2019 5:18 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:Mandatory vaccinations aren’t threatening liberty, that would be the terrorists opposing them

We have a right to decide what goes in our bodies and what doesn't.

Not when you are actively presenting a threat to others and are bringing back deadly diseases previously on the verge of extinction you dont.
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⚦ Through the souls of your brothers and sisters I take My place amongst the Three; through their pleasure I ascend my Throne. Pleasure, for Pleasure's sake! ⚦
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Greater vakolicci haven
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Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Fri May 24, 2019 5:19 am

Highever wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:We have a right to decide what goes in our bodies and what doesn't.

Not when you are actively presenting a threat to others and are bringing back deadly diseases previously on the verge of extinction you dont.

You see, I'm coming at this from the angle of really not caring about public health, and viewing public health pushes with some degree of suspicion.

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Thermodolia
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Postby Thermodolia » Fri May 24, 2019 5:21 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Highever wrote:Not when you are actively presenting a threat to others and are bringing back deadly diseases previously on the verge of extinction you dont.

You see, I'm coming at this from the angle of really not caring about public health, and viewing public health pushes with some degree of suspicion.

Who hurt you?
Male, Titoist cultural nationalist, lives somewhere in the Deep South, give me any good Irish, Canadian, or Scottish whiskey and I will be your friend for life. I'm GAY!
I'm agent #69 in the Gaystapo!
>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
>>Dumb Ideologies: Why not turn yourself into a penguin and build an igloo at the centre of the Earth?
>Xovland: I keep getting ads for printer ink. Sometimes, when you get that feeling down there, you have to look at some steamy printer pictures.
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Highever
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Postby Highever » Fri May 24, 2019 5:21 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Highever wrote:Not when you are actively presenting a threat to others and are bringing back deadly diseases previously on the verge of extinction you dont.

You see, I'm coming at this from the angle of really not caring about public health, and viewing public health pushes with some degree of suspicion.

That's great, you're edgy and dont care about people or the public or some such thing. That's not any sort of valid reason.
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Greater vakolicci haven
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Posts: 11902
Founded: May 09, 2014
Anarchy

Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Fri May 24, 2019 5:22 am

Thermodolia wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:You see, I'm coming at this from the angle of really not caring about public health, and viewing public health pushes with some degree of suspicion.

Who hurt you?

In what sense? Nobody recently, feeling fine atm. Bit hung over though.

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