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Hundreds quarantined for measles in 2 CA universities.

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Kowani
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Postby Kowani » Sun Apr 28, 2019 3:33 pm

Chernoslavia wrote:
Liriena wrote:The public policy debate on vaccination should just talk and act past anti-vaxxers. Just ignore their noise altogether. They're worse than a dead weight as far as public health policy is concerned. Make vaccinations mandatory. And for heaven's sake, implement some universal health care that covers it all.


No.

Why not?
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Chernoslavia
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Postby Chernoslavia » Sun Apr 28, 2019 3:35 pm

Loben wrote:A homeless problem? In California? The liberal utopia? The American soviet?

The grand poobah of bullshit? Satans own playground?

Nooooo...really?


And the same state where a politician has denied a private citizen from using his own money to build small homes for the homeless.
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

- Alexander Solzhenitsyn

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Chernoslavia
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Postby Chernoslavia » Sun Apr 28, 2019 3:39 pm

Kowani wrote:
Chernoslavia wrote:
No.

Why not?


1. Pointing guns at people and forcing them to have fluids pumped into them, you don't see a problem with that?
2. Because it's aweful, the medical services are lack luster and drives up the costs for even the most basic medicines.
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

- Alexander Solzhenitsyn

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Chernoslavia
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Postby Chernoslavia » Sun Apr 28, 2019 3:42 pm

And what fresh hell is this where people are being forcefully quarantined whether they have measles or not?
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

- Alexander Solzhenitsyn

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Esternial
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Postby Esternial » Sun Apr 28, 2019 3:42 pm

Some people only learn the hard way - it's just sad that they involve others in their paranoia/pride-fueled crusade against vaccines.

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Kowani
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Postby Kowani » Sun Apr 28, 2019 3:43 pm

Chernoslavia wrote:
Kowani wrote:Why not?


1. Pointing guns at people and forcing them to have fluids pumped into them, you don't see a problem with that?
Considering that those fluids are directly responsible for saving lives, and by not having said fluids you are directly endangering others who physically cannot have said fluids, no.
Chernoslavia wrote:2. Because it's aweful, the medical services are lack luster and drives up the costs for even the most basic medicines.

Citation needed.
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Oh, and a Pragmatist. Somehow.
Rights are functionally just privileges society has deemed important.
Neanderthaland wrote:
Christian Confederation wrote:Contraception can't fail if you don't have sex in term no unwanted pregnancy.

Your entire religion is based on the idea that this isn't true.

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Loben
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Postby Loben » Sun Apr 28, 2019 3:46 pm

What happened to “my body my choice”

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Chernoslavia
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Postby Chernoslavia » Sun Apr 28, 2019 3:49 pm

Kowani wrote:
Chernoslavia wrote:
1. Pointing guns at people and forcing them to have fluids pumped into them, you don't see a problem with that?
Considering that those fluids are directly responsible for saving lives, and by not having said fluids you are directly endangering others who physically cannot have said fluids, no.
Chernoslavia wrote:2. Because it's aweful, the medical services are lack luster and drives up the costs for even the most basic medicines.

Citation needed.


1. So deny them from going to schools or government facilities. Pointing a gun to their heads and telling them to do so will only make you look bad especially if they don't even have measles. Also, restricting anyone from any human contact just because they haven't got vaxxed is also a human rights violation.

2. https://mises.org/library/truth-about-swedencare
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 28101.html
https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... tion-study
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/arti ... er-US.html
Last edited by Chernoslavia on Sun Apr 28, 2019 4:02 pm, edited 4 times in total.
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

- Alexander Solzhenitsyn

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Telconi
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Postby Telconi » Sun Apr 28, 2019 4:09 pm

Loben wrote:What happened to “my body my choice”


Nothing, they reserve the right to break out any and all hypocritical tag-lines to argue against policies they dislike.
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Kowani
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Postby Kowani » Sun Apr 28, 2019 4:28 pm

Chernoslavia wrote:
Kowani wrote: Considering that those fluids are directly responsible for saving lives, and by not having said fluids you are directly endangering others who physically cannot have said fluids, no.

Citation needed.


1. So deny them from going to schools or government facilities. Pointing a gun to their heads and telling them to do so will only make you look bad especially if they don't even have measles. Also, restricting anyone from any human contact just because they haven't got vaxxed is also a human rights violation.
Or outside. Until you solve it problem of evolution, autoimmune disorders, elderly people, the poor and babies, antivaxxers constitute a direct threat to all of these classes of people.
Ignoring the fact that this is a heavily biased source for a moment, this is all anecdotal evidence. Additionally, if the service was of such poor quality, you’d see a massive push to privatize it. Which we don’t. On top of that, Sweden has a very high amount of elderly people who surprisingly, require more healthcare.

From your source: “The King's Fund also found severe cuts to sexual health funding, despite increasing demand for the service.” “It is a desperate situation that will only get worse unless the Government gives our health service the long-term investment it needs.”
Well no shit. If you defund the service of course it’s going to do worse.
And from the study they cited: “With acute services such as hip replacement and neonatal care relatively protected so far, while some community-based and public health services like GUM and district nursing have been cut,”

Have been cut, have been cut. Notice a pattern yet?

The health minister David Mowat said: “These claims are both unreliable and misleading. The latest official figures show that nine in 10 patients still wait less than 18 weeks for treatment, despite the fact that last year the NHS carried out 1.6m more operations than in 2010.”

“Fewer than 1% of operations were cancelled on short notice – stable despite this rising activity – and the number of people waiting more than a year has dropped by nearly 18,000 under this government.”

An NHS England spokesman said: “We have significant concerns about this report, which is both misleading and statistically flawed, and is based on a fundamental misunderstanding of the referral-to-treatment performance standard. Waits for an NHS operation remain close to an all-time low – down from a maximum wait of 18 months over a decade ago to 18 weeks now, with the average wait less than 10 weeks.

“Last month, more than nine out of 10 patients were waiting less than 18 weeks to start consultant-led treatment. We continue to make strides in cutting long waits, with the number of patients waiting over a year slashed from over 5,000 recorded in March 2012 to being in the hundreds now.

“In the last five years, since June 2011, the NHS has reduced the number of patients waiting more than a year for treatment by over 12,000.”

10/10 points.

Really, 2003? The NHS definitely hasn’t changed since then, no…
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Dorgival R. Seč of the NS Parliament!
Atheist and still proud of it. Technophile to the extreme.
Post-Capitalist, Post-Nationalist. Go beyond.
Oh, and a Pragmatist. Somehow.
Rights are functionally just privileges society has deemed important.
Neanderthaland wrote:
Christian Confederation wrote:Contraception can't fail if you don't have sex in term no unwanted pregnancy.

Your entire religion is based on the idea that this isn't true.

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Evil Dictators Happyland
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Postby Evil Dictators Happyland » Sun Apr 28, 2019 4:31 pm

Chernoslavia wrote:And what fresh hell is this where people are being forcefully quarantined whether they have measles or not?

That's... That's what a quarantine is. You keep everyone out of the general population unless and until you are absolutely certain of who does and does not have the disease. This is SOP.
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Dooom35796821595
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Postby Dooom35796821595 » Sun Apr 28, 2019 5:09 pm

Loben wrote:What happened to “my body my choice”


It’s not their bodies, it’s their children their bodies. They were given vaccinations by their more responsible parents.
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Postby Thermodolia » Sun Apr 28, 2019 5:12 pm

Chernoslavia wrote:And what fresh hell is this where people are being forcefully quarantined whether they have measles or not?

Because that’s how you stop the spread of disease and outbreaks. You quarantine everyone in the effected area
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Thermodolia
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Postby Thermodolia » Sun Apr 28, 2019 5:16 pm

Chernoslavia wrote:
Kowani wrote: Considering that those fluids are directly responsible for saving lives, and by not having said fluids you are directly endangering others who physically cannot have said fluids, no.

Citation needed.


1. So deny them from going to schools or government facilities. Pointing a gun to their heads and telling them to do so will only make you look bad especially if they don't even have measles. Also, restricting anyone from any human contact just because they haven't got vaxxed is also a human rights violation.

You do realize that mandatory vaccinations doesn’t mean a gun to your head right? Or are you just going to be overly dramatic per the usual?



You do realize that single payer healthcare isn’t the only form of universal healthcare right? Germany has one of the best healthcare systems in the world and it’s not single payer yet it’s universal
Male, centrist cultural nationalist, lives somewhere in the Deep South, loves dogs particularly German Shepherds, give me any good Irish or Scottish whiskey and I will be your friend for life. I'm GAY!
I'm agent #69 in the Gaystapo!
>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
>>Dumb Ideologies: Why not turn yourself into a penguin and build an igloo at the centre of the Earth?
>Xovland: I keep getting ads for printer ink. Sometimes, when you get that feeling down there, you have to look at some steamy printer pictures.
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Ambassador to the GA Jon Æthr
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Badb Catha
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Postby Badb Catha » Sun Apr 28, 2019 5:17 pm

The failure of the Federal Government to respond appropriately to the Anti-Vaccine Movement is inexcusable. This is a culture of ignorance manifested in the form of a public health crisis and should be taken far more seriously. It is the obligation of lawmakers to draw up, submit, and approve any and all legislation to combat the spread of this dangerous misinformation before more unprotected youth fall victim to it. Any refusal to do so is a failure of their duty to their constituents.
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Postby The Black Party » Sun Apr 28, 2019 5:18 pm

a n o t h e r ebpic v i c t o r y r o y a l e for the anti-vax community!! :clap: :clap: :clap:
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Postby The Galactic Liberal Democracy » Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:06 pm

The Black Party wrote:a n o t h e r ebpic v i c t o r y r o y a l e for the anti-vax community!! :clap: :clap: :clap:

I need to save this.
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Postby Liriena » Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:10 pm

Chernoslavia wrote:
Liriena wrote:The public policy debate on vaccination should just talk and act past anti-vaxxers. Just ignore their noise altogether. They're worse than a dead weight as far as public health policy is concerned. Make vaccinations mandatory. And for heaven's sake, implement some universal health care that covers it all.


No.

GUBMENT HEALTHCARE BAD
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Postby Liriena » Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:12 pm

Chernoslavia wrote:
Kowani wrote:Why not?


1. Pointing guns at people and forcing them to have fluids pumped into them, you don't see a problem with that?
2. Because it's aweful, the medical services are lack luster and drives up the costs for even the most basic medicines.

1. If it's to prevent the resurgence of noted child-killers like polio? No.
2. Every single country with universal healthcare spends less than y'all do and the majority of "developed" nations with universal healthcare provide better overall care. Sit down.
Last edited by Liriena on Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The Fabulous Pope of NS


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
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Liriena
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Postby Liriena » Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:15 pm

Thermodolia wrote:
Chernoslavia wrote:
1. So deny them from going to schools or government facilities. Pointing a gun to their heads and telling them to do so will only make you look bad especially if they don't even have measles. Also, restricting anyone from any human contact just because they haven't got vaxxed is also a human rights violation.

You do realize that mandatory vaccinations doesn’t mean a gun to your head right? Or are you just going to be overly dramatic per the usual?



You do realize that single payer healthcare isn’t the only form of universal healthcare right? Germany has one of the best healthcare systems in the world and it’s not single payer yet it’s universal

Also, funny how Chernoslavia never even mentions the French, Icelandic or Norwegian healthcare systems. I wonder why.

Also, shitting on the NHS without acknowledging the fact that most of its current problems can be traced back to conservatives purposefully starving the system of proper funding in an attempt to justify its privatization. Because what is the right-wing death cult against universal healthcare without a healthy dose of dishonesty?
Last edited by Liriena on Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The Fabulous Pope of NS


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


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Liriena
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Postby Liriena » Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:17 pm

Loben wrote:What happened to “my body my choice”

Children are not their parents' bodies.
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I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


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The Black Forrest
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Postby The Black Forrest » Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:18 pm

Chernoslavia wrote:
Kowani wrote:Why not?


1. Pointing guns at people and forcing them to have fluids pumped into them, you don't see a problem with that?
2. Because it's aweful, the medical services are lack luster and drives up the costs for even the most basic medicines.


1) A vaccine for a contagious disease which had a habbit of killing people and was announced eliminated in the US two decades ago......Yes. I have no problem with it. The only time you should be exempt if you have condition where a DOCTOR would not advise getting it.
2) Of course you have sources for that eh?
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Kowani
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Postby Kowani » Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:19 pm

The Black Forrest wrote:
Chernoslavia wrote:
1. Pointing guns at people and forcing them to have fluids pumped into them, you don't see a problem with that?
2. Because it's aweful, the medical services are lack luster and drives up the costs for even the most basic medicines.


1) A vaccine for a contagious disease which had a habbit of killing people and was announced eliminated in the US two decades ago......Yes. I have no problem with it. The only time you should be exempt if you have condition where a DOCTOR would not advise getting it.
2) Of course you have sources for that eh?

He posted them earlier. They were, of course, crap, but they were there.
Narcissistic (Hedonistic) Nihilist. Yes, I am edgy. I know.
Dorgival R. Seč of the NS Parliament!
Atheist and still proud of it. Technophile to the extreme.
Post-Capitalist, Post-Nationalist. Go beyond.
Oh, and a Pragmatist. Somehow.
Rights are functionally just privileges society has deemed important.
Neanderthaland wrote:
Christian Confederation wrote:Contraception can't fail if you don't have sex in term no unwanted pregnancy.

Your entire religion is based on the idea that this isn't true.

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The Black Forrest
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Postby The Black Forrest » Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:19 pm

Loben wrote:What happened to “my body my choice”


That kind of ends with contagious diseases.
*I am a master proofreader after I click Submit.
* There is actually a War on Christmas. But Christmas started it, with it's unparalleled aggression against the Thanksgiving Holiday, and now Christmas has seized much Lebensraum in November, and are pushing into October. The rest of us seek to repel these invaders, and push them back to the status quo ante bellum Black Friday border. -Trotskylvania
* Silence Is Golden But Duct Tape Is Silver.
* I felt like Ayn Rand cornered me at a party, and three minutes in I found my first objection to what she was saying, but she kept talking without interruption for ten more days. - Max Barry talking about Atlas Shrugged

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The Black Forrest
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Postby The Black Forrest » Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:21 pm

Kowani wrote:
The Black Forrest wrote:
1) A vaccine for a contagious disease which had a habbit of killing people and was announced eliminated in the US two decades ago......Yes. I have no problem with it. The only time you should be exempt if you have condition where a DOCTOR would not advise getting it.
2) Of course you have sources for that eh?

He posted them earlier. They were, of course, crap, but they were there.


I admit not going back :| Did it continue the usual antivax nonsense?
*I am a master proofreader after I click Submit.
* There is actually a War on Christmas. But Christmas started it, with it's unparalleled aggression against the Thanksgiving Holiday, and now Christmas has seized much Lebensraum in November, and are pushing into October. The rest of us seek to repel these invaders, and push them back to the status quo ante bellum Black Friday border. -Trotskylvania
* Silence Is Golden But Duct Tape Is Silver.
* I felt like Ayn Rand cornered me at a party, and three minutes in I found my first objection to what she was saying, but she kept talking without interruption for ten more days. - Max Barry talking about Atlas Shrugged

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