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Hundreds quarantined for measles in 2 CA universities.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Estanglia
Minister
 
Posts: 2528
Founded: Dec 31, 2017
Anarchy

Postby Estanglia » Thu May 16, 2019 8:09 am

The Aria wrote:
Gormwood wrote:Some people are determined to see vaccines as bad and unnecessary.


And some people are determined to see vaccines as good and necessary


Because they are.

The Aria wrote:
The Free Joy State wrote:FTFY.

Anti-vaxxers hold a dangerous, minority view. A view that leads to the deaths and injury of their children, to the deaths and injury of those who cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons, and weakens herd immunity for everyone else.


Yes some of us do hold a view that vaccines are dangerous. A thing that can kill thousands of people


Point us to the thousands of people killed by vaccines.

The Aria wrote:
The Free Joy State wrote:Thousands?

Vaccines are very well tolerated, and definitely better than the potentially fatal risks of diseases like measles.

Bring me evidence to prove otherwise. Official sources (government websites, health sources, medical journals), not eek-vaccines-will-kill-you.com


You say bring me evidence but then you restrict it to sources that will be from only one side...


Maybe there's a reason for that...

Like, oh, I don't know, most everyone who has even a shred of credibility knowing that vaccines don't kill?

The Aria wrote:
Neanderthaland wrote:Dude, vaccines are older than the government.


The agendas of the people in the government aren't


Ah yes, The Evil Health AgendaTM!

Secretly plotting to save your kids since 1796!

The Aria wrote:Its kinda unfair its 1vs5 here, i cant think about all your points at the same time.

Maybe if anti-vaxers got as much funding as vaxers we could prove the truth to you with fancy sources, but that probably wont happen because people dont want to be wrong

Anyways i need to go, its getting late.


We already have the truth.
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The Black Forrest
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Postby The Black Forrest » Thu May 16, 2019 8:24 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
The Free Joy State wrote:Are you serious?

Children are smaller and physically weaker, meaning they can be harmed. They do not know right from wrong until about age seven, meaning that the unscrupulous can exploit them. They are more likely to be credulous and believe lies fed to them by people who do not have their best interests at heart (meaning that they can make poor decisions). Impulsivity can lead to them doing things that can cause irreparable damage to themselves or others.

We have laws to protect them against child marriage to protect them from being abused, laws to stop them smoking to prevent them damaging their bodies, laws to keep them out of the army to stop them seeing someone who looks cool in a uniform and going to get themselves killed.

These are all good laws. That you don't like them is just too fucking bad!

Adding mandatory vaccination of children would be another way to protect them from being killed or maimed before their life has begun, and while they are unfairly under the influence of their parents.

Children are children: small, immature and vulnerable, with sometimes faulty decision-making. Not smaller versions of adults.

The empowerment of the human impulses, however, would lead to much better consequences in the long run. If we weren't taught to obsess over the effects of our decisions, for example, decisions could be made at a governmental level which completely changed or even ended the world.


I......am guessing you don't have any children?


Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:Don’t talk about the speck in other’s eyes while ignoring the plank in your own

I don't think I've been talking rubbish in this thread


Hmmm? Actually; you are.....
Last edited by The Black Forrest on Thu May 16, 2019 8:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
*I am a master proofreader after I click Submit.
* There is actually a War on Christmas. But Christmas started it, with it's unparalleled aggression against the Thanksgiving Holiday, and now Christmas has seized much Lebensraum in November, and are pushing into October. The rest of us seek to repel these invaders, and push them back to the status quo ante bellum Black Friday border. -Trotskylvania
* Silence Is Golden But Duct Tape Is Silver.
* I felt like Ayn Rand cornered me at a party, and three minutes in I found my first objection to what she was saying, but she kept talking without interruption for ten more days. - Max Barry talking about Atlas Shrugged

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Icelandic Military Junta
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Founded: Apr 17, 2019
Father Knows Best State

Postby Icelandic Military Junta » Thu May 16, 2019 10:20 am

Estanglia wrote:
The Aria wrote:
And some people are determined to see vaccines as good and necessary


Because they are.

The Aria wrote:
Yes some of us do hold a view that vaccines are dangerous. A thing that can kill thousands of people


Point us to the thousands of people killed by vaccines.

The Aria wrote:
You say bring me evidence but then you restrict it to sources that will be from only one side...


Maybe there's a reason for that...

Like, oh, I don't know, most everyone who has even a shred of credibility knowing that vaccines don't kill?

The Aria wrote:
The agendas of the people in the government aren't


Ah yes, The Evil Health AgendaTM!

Secretly plotting to save your kids since 1796!

The Aria wrote:Its kinda unfair its 1vs5 here, i cant think about all your points at the same time.

Maybe if anti-vaxers got as much funding as vaxers we could prove the truth to you with fancy sources, but that probably wont happen because people dont want to be wrong

Anyways i need to go, its getting late.


We already have the truth.

I still can't for the like of me understand why Anti-Vaxxers are a thing.

There have been no studies proving that Vaccines are more dangerous than the illness that prevents them. For example, Polio. Polio can leave you permanently disabled or dead. The Polio vaccine According to the NCBI caused 80 deaths in the US between 1980 and 1989. This is out of the millions who received the vaccine during the 80s, so your chances of dying could range anywhere from 1 in 100k to 1 in a million. Now let's see the polio cases in the United States.

Between 1949 and 1954, there were 196 thousand cases of Polio. Of those, 10,400 died. This means that your chances of dying were about 5% and many developed additional symptoms 15-40 years later. Even the ones who didn't die or have permanent scars suffered from anything ranging from flu-like symptoms to paralysis. Which side do you want your child to be on?

Sources:
https://www.cdc.gov/polio/about/index.htm
https://ourworldindata.org/polio
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4599698/
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Valentine Z
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Valentine Z » Thu May 16, 2019 10:50 am

Wow, I honestly didn't know that my thread will go this far. Anyway, I thought I will just chime in, and correct me if I'm wrong here.

So from what I can see here, there are debates on the government interference being all bad because of mandatory vaccines, am I correct in saying that?

If that is correct, I will say that the arguments are slippery slopes when we are talking about mandatory vaccines giving the government more power to do whatever the hell they want. First and foremost, there is healthy cynicism, and there is unhealthy paranoia and slippery slope that I have aforementioned.

What I am personally wanting to go for is for the governments to make vaccines mandatory, and in most cases with the rest of the world, we are already seeing this in effect; one must be vaccinated to attend a school, for instance.

This does NOT necessarily mean that this will give the government more power to push whatever else they feel like towards the people to be mandatory, nor am I advocating for the police or the civil services to drag people out from their homes just because they aren't vaccinated. No, if you are not vaccinated, I simply ask that you do so, or be informed better about the matter, and if you still don't comply, I simply ask that you and your offsprings be quarantined from the rest of the world to protect the rest of us. Or a hefty fine... or something. I want the vaccines to be mandatory to protect people, but at the same time, we must not go with the slippery argument of "the government is meddling too much in our lives."

Whatever a government does, does not necessarily have to follow what 1984 or some dystopian sci-fi book says. It can be as senseful as:

Govt: "Hey, are you vaccinated?"
AVer: "No, because it's my freedom not to be vaccinated."
Govt: "Cool, then please stay away from those vulnerable areas, especially around children or immunocompromised people. Also we are pushing for validified and tried and tested vaccines, we are NOT pushing unverified vaccines to make you all guinea pigs. We have governmental oversights and organisations to keep that in check!"

You definitely don't want an unvaccinated person to be around your kid, or your friend who is immunocompromised.

-----

Some will say that this will go against civil rights, and yes, it will be, to a certain degree. But at the same time, this is to make sure that measles, smallpox, polio, and all those other diseases be left behind in the past and never to be brought back again.

In short: I would like the government to keep in check that people are vaccinating but at the same time, there can be oversights to make sure that the government is pushing for verified and tried vaccines instead of using people as unintentional guinea pigs.

The government isn't some dystopian uni-body entity. Sure, I am cynical at some things they (any country's govt) do, but at the end of the day, being too paranoid and fearing that they will drag you out of your homes is... overblown. Mandatory vaccines are not going to end the world, as far as I am concerned. It may cause overpopulation if you are going to argue with that route, but that can be fixed with birth control (but that's another story).

It's good to think about yourself, but at the same time, please do think about everyone else around you and don't be too overly selfish.

EDIT that my views are argued for or against and I am not saying that my views are totally correct. I'm just a guy with an internet connection like most here, so... yeah, just saying that. I ain't a health professional, but I trust the verified doctors well enough.
Last edited by Valentine Z on Thu May 16, 2019 11:00 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Shanhwa
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Founded: Mar 18, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Shanhwa » Thu May 16, 2019 10:53 am

The Aria wrote::twisted:
Gormwood wrote:Never thought there would be an actual anti-vaxxers on NSG. Rather sad huh?


Why do you think its sad?

I think most anti-vaxers dont say anything because you people put words in our mouths and many of the ones who do say things and have blogs and stuff get shut down by the government


I too remember when the FBI took down my website for not getting vaccinated.

Truly we live in a society.
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Tornado Queendom
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Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Tornado Queendom » Thu May 16, 2019 10:53 am

This might be the result of a bad vaccine, which can lead to MORE problems than not getting vaccinated. If you're going to get vaxxed, check if your vaccine has any bad design quirks.
Last edited by Tornado Queendom on Thu May 16, 2019 10:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The Black Forrest
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Postby The Black Forrest » Thu May 16, 2019 10:55 am

Tornado Queendom wrote:This might be the result of a bad vaccine, which can lead to MORE problems than not getting vaccinated. If you're going to get vaxxed, check if your vaccine has any bad design quirks.


Ahh anti-vaxx?

Please list "bad design quirks"
*I am a master proofreader after I click Submit.
* There is actually a War on Christmas. But Christmas started it, with it's unparalleled aggression against the Thanksgiving Holiday, and now Christmas has seized much Lebensraum in November, and are pushing into October. The rest of us seek to repel these invaders, and push them back to the status quo ante bellum Black Friday border. -Trotskylvania
* Silence Is Golden But Duct Tape Is Silver.
* I felt like Ayn Rand cornered me at a party, and three minutes in I found my first objection to what she was saying, but she kept talking without interruption for ten more days. - Max Barry talking about Atlas Shrugged

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Valentine Z
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Valentine Z » Thu May 16, 2019 10:55 am

The Black Forrest wrote:
Tornado Queendom wrote:This might be the result of a bad vaccine, which can lead to MORE problems than not getting vaccinated. If you're going to get vaxxed, check if your vaccine has any bad design quirks.


Ahh anti-vaxx?

Please list "bad design quirks"


Poisons. Lots and lots of poisons.

Mandatory /s here. :P
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Tornado Queendom
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Postby Tornado Queendom » Thu May 16, 2019 10:56 am

The Black Forrest wrote:
Tornado Queendom wrote:This might be the result of a bad vaccine, which can lead to MORE problems than not getting vaccinated. If you're going to get vaxxed, check if your vaccine has any bad design quirks.


Ahh anti-vaxx?

Please list "bad design quirks"

For example, some mistake could've been made which means that the virus isn't disabled. This could lead to infections, which could be prevented by either isolating yourself or checking if you have quality vaccines.
However, I'd agree with the Anti-Vax crowd's right to free speech.
Last edited by Tornado Queendom on Thu May 16, 2019 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The Black Forrest
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Postby The Black Forrest » Thu May 16, 2019 10:57 am

Tornado Queendom wrote:
The Black Forrest wrote:
Ahh anti-vaxx?

Please list "bad design quirks"

For example, some mistake could've been made which means that the virus isn't disabled. This could lead to infections, which could be prevented by either isolating yourself or checking if you have quality vaccines.
However, I'd agree with the Anti-Vax crowd's right to free speech.


Ok. Source how many times that has happened.
*I am a master proofreader after I click Submit.
* There is actually a War on Christmas. But Christmas started it, with it's unparalleled aggression against the Thanksgiving Holiday, and now Christmas has seized much Lebensraum in November, and are pushing into October. The rest of us seek to repel these invaders, and push them back to the status quo ante bellum Black Friday border. -Trotskylvania
* Silence Is Golden But Duct Tape Is Silver.
* I felt like Ayn Rand cornered me at a party, and three minutes in I found my first objection to what she was saying, but she kept talking without interruption for ten more days. - Max Barry talking about Atlas Shrugged

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The Black Forrest
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Postby The Black Forrest » Thu May 16, 2019 10:59 am

Tornado Queendom wrote:
The Black Forrest wrote:
Ahh anti-vaxx?

Please list "bad design quirks"

For example, some mistake could've been made which means that the virus isn't disabled. This could lead to infections, which could be prevented by either isolating yourself or checking if you have quality vaccines.
However, I'd agree with the Anti-Vax crowd's right to free speech.


Hmmmm? Free speech which could possibly endanger others especially when spouting falsehoods and nonsense?......
*I am a master proofreader after I click Submit.
* There is actually a War on Christmas. But Christmas started it, with it's unparalleled aggression against the Thanksgiving Holiday, and now Christmas has seized much Lebensraum in November, and are pushing into October. The rest of us seek to repel these invaders, and push them back to the status quo ante bellum Black Friday border. -Trotskylvania
* Silence Is Golden But Duct Tape Is Silver.
* I felt like Ayn Rand cornered me at a party, and three minutes in I found my first objection to what she was saying, but she kept talking without interruption for ten more days. - Max Barry talking about Atlas Shrugged

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Tornado Queendom
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Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Tornado Queendom » Thu May 16, 2019 10:59 am

The Black Forrest wrote:
Tornado Queendom wrote:For example, some mistake could've been made which means that the virus isn't disabled. This could lead to infections, which could be prevented by either isolating yourself or checking if you have quality vaccines.
However, I'd agree with the Anti-Vax crowd's right to free speech.


Hmmmm? Free speech which could possibly endanger others especially when spouting falsehoods and nonsense?......

No matter what, taking away free speech is unconstitutional.
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Icelandic Military Junta
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Icelandic Military Junta » Thu May 16, 2019 11:01 am

The Black Forrest wrote:
Tornado Queendom wrote:For example, some mistake could've been made which means that the virus isn't disabled. This could lead to infections, which could be prevented by either isolating yourself or checking if you have quality vaccines.
However, I'd agree with the Anti-Vax crowd's right to free speech.


Hmmmm? Free speech which could possibly endanger others especially when spouting falsehoods and nonsense?......

Yeah, unlike Nazism or Stalinism, Anti-Vaxxers are an immediate threat to society. Nazis and Tankies are just wrong, Anti-Vaxxers can cause an epidemic that leads hundreds quarantined or dead. They are screaming "There is a fire" in a crowded area when there is no fire and all it causes is hysteria and pain
Last edited by Icelandic Military Junta on Thu May 16, 2019 11:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The Black Forrest
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Postby The Black Forrest » Thu May 16, 2019 11:01 am

Tornado Queendom wrote:
The Black Forrest wrote:
Hmmmm? Free speech which could possibly endanger others especially when spouting falsehoods and nonsense?......

No matter what, taking away free speech is unconstitutional.


Hmmmm? How about legal action against the perpetrators?
*I am a master proofreader after I click Submit.
* There is actually a War on Christmas. But Christmas started it, with it's unparalleled aggression against the Thanksgiving Holiday, and now Christmas has seized much Lebensraum in November, and are pushing into October. The rest of us seek to repel these invaders, and push them back to the status quo ante bellum Black Friday border. -Trotskylvania
* Silence Is Golden But Duct Tape Is Silver.
* I felt like Ayn Rand cornered me at a party, and three minutes in I found my first objection to what she was saying, but she kept talking without interruption for ten more days. - Max Barry talking about Atlas Shrugged

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Valentine Z
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Valentine Z » Thu May 16, 2019 11:02 am

Icelandic Military Junta wrote:
The Black Forrest wrote:
Hmmmm? Free speech which could possibly endanger others especially when spouting falsehoods and nonsense?......

Yeah, unlike Nazism or Stalinism, Anti-Vaxxers are an immediate threat to society. Nazis and Tankies are just wrong, Anti-Vaxxers can cause an epidemic that leads hundreds quarantined or dead.


As with the case of the very OP here, or with many other news of these diseases making a comeback.

Movies, TV shows, games, they can make a comeback many times they want.

Measles, polio, smallpox... they need to stay dead and not allowed to come back.
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If you are reading my sig, I want you to have the best day ever ! You are worth it, do not let anyone get you down !
Glory to De Geweldige Sierlijke Katachtige Utopia en Zijne Autonome Machten ov Valentine Z !
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Unia Ante
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Ex-Nation

Postby Unia Ante » Thu May 16, 2019 3:23 pm

Interesting to me how Trump goes back on his word like that. Was he not educated on the subject or did he turn a blind eye to appeal to his voters? Or both?

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Gormwood
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Postby Gormwood » Thu May 16, 2019 3:25 pm

Unia Ante wrote:Interesting to me how Trump goes back on his word like that. Was he not educated on the subject or did he turn a blind eye to appeal to his voters? Or both?

Trump going back on his words is inevitable as sunrise and sunset.
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Tetradimensional Overworld
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Postby Tetradimensional Overworld » Thu May 16, 2019 3:40 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvGmOZ5T6_Y

Crowds: Anti-vax moms and NSG posters saying 'freedom to kill your own son/daughter'
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Kowani
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Postby Kowani » Thu May 16, 2019 3:44 pm

Tornado Queendom wrote:
The Black Forrest wrote:
Hmmmm? Free speech which could possibly endanger others especially when spouting falsehoods and nonsense?......

No matter what, taking away free speech is unconstitutional.

Freeing slaves was unconstitutional before the Civil War.
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Bear Stearns
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Postby Bear Stearns » Thu May 16, 2019 3:46 pm

Given that this occurred on a university campus, where students are subject to mandatory vaccination, it seems unlikely that anti-vaxxers are to blame here. More likely, somebody actually contracted measles the old-fashioned way. I.E. some dumbass ventured off to a third world country and started drinking water, eating the food, and sharing fluids with the people.
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Tetradimensional Overworld
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Ex-Nation

Postby Tetradimensional Overworld » Thu May 16, 2019 3:46 pm

Kowani wrote:
Tornado Queendom wrote:No matter what, taking away free speech is unconstitutional.

Freeing slaves was unconstitutional before the Civil War.

Remember, the Constitution is not set in stone and could be amended unlike the laws of physics.
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IC name: Greater Aecinov Republic | Maxovikt Aečinov Valtarzurthr
IF YOU THINK WE'RE FOUR DIMENSIONAL, YOU ARE MISTAKEN. THIS IS JUST AN OLD NAME, A PLACEHOLDER NAME. I WILL /STILLME YA IF YOU MAKE CRAPPY ANSWERS SO DEAL WITH IT VADIM
TETRADIMENSIONAL OVERWORLD isn't my IC name. This nation is pure unadulterated nostalgia, deal with it. Did you know that I wasted 400 million plus seconds of my life and you wasted more? Well, if I could go back to any age, I'd go back to the time when I was 11. Great times indeed. I'm an anti-communist, but I do love me some Soviet music.
Late childhood is the best part of childhood -- change my mind. People below 10 are in blissful ignorance so I'd rather avoid that. Blissful ignorance is not true happiness

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Farnhamia
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Founded: Jun 20, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Farnhamia » Thu May 16, 2019 3:54 pm

Bear Stearns wrote:Given that this occurred on a university campus, where students are subject to mandatory vaccination, it seems unlikely that anti-vaxxers are to blame here. More likely, somebody actually contracted measles the old-fashioned way. I.E. some dumbass ventured off to a third world country and started drinking water, eating the food, and sharing fluids with the people.

Somebody At WIki wrote:The virus is highly contagious and is spread by coughing and sneezing via close personal contact or direct contact with secretions.[40] It can live for up to two hours in that airspace or nearby surfaces.[19][40] Measles is so contagious that if one person has it, 90% of nearby non-immune people will also become infected.[19] Humans are the only natural hosts of the virus, and no other animal reservoirs are known to exist.[19]

So you don't even need to eat or drink anything and measles is certainly not a sexually transmitted disease.
Freedom ... or cake. ~ Ashmoria (RIP)
Make Earth Great Again: Stop Continental Drift!
And Jesus was a sailor when he walked upon the water ...
"Make yourself at home, Frank. Hit somebody." RIP Don Rickles
My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. ~ Carl Schurz
<Sigh> NSG...where even the atheists are Augustinians. ~ The Archregimancy
Now the foot is on the other hand ~ Kannap
RIP Dyakovo

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Kowani
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Posts: 18002
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Thu May 16, 2019 3:55 pm

Tetradimensional Overworld wrote:
Kowani wrote:Freeing slaves was unconstitutional before the Civil War.

Remember, the Constitution is not set in stone and could be amended unlike the laws of physics.
Smrt slobodi govora sloboda intelektualcima!

Yes, that was part of the point I was making.
Atheist and still proud of it. Spanish Expat.
Post-Capitalist, Post-Nationalist. Rights are functionally just privileges society has deemed important.
Seangoli wrote:You are spouting nonsensical drivel with no coherent thought, little logic, and at the end of it all just angry opining at the clouds based on a truly astonishly low level of knowledge or understanding of the subject matter.

Turbofolkia wrote:And it’s not like the 1000 different offshoots of Protestantism that you have in America are any better. Even if they’re not abusing children, it’s just megachurches filled with people on mobility strollers donating their life savings to Pastor Hamburglar so that he can buy his sixth McMansion.

0% Capitalism

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Tetradimensional Overworld
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Posts: 140
Founded: Apr 29, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Tetradimensional Overworld » Thu May 16, 2019 3:56 pm

Kowani wrote:
Tetradimensional Overworld wrote:Remember, the Constitution is not set in stone and could be amended unlike the laws of physics.
Smrt slobodi govora sloboda intelektualcima!

Yes, that was part of the point I was making.

Smrt anti-vaxxeru sloboda narodu! For our children's and our grandchildren's future! DEATH TO THE ANTI-VAXXERS!
IC name: Greater Aecinov Republic | Maxovikt Aečinov Valtarzurthr
IF YOU THINK WE'RE FOUR DIMENSIONAL, YOU ARE MISTAKEN. THIS IS JUST AN OLD NAME, A PLACEHOLDER NAME. I WILL /STILLME YA IF YOU MAKE CRAPPY ANSWERS SO DEAL WITH IT VADIM
TETRADIMENSIONAL OVERWORLD isn't my IC name. This nation is pure unadulterated nostalgia, deal with it. Did you know that I wasted 400 million plus seconds of my life and you wasted more? Well, if I could go back to any age, I'd go back to the time when I was 11. Great times indeed. I'm an anti-communist, but I do love me some Soviet music.
Late childhood is the best part of childhood -- change my mind. People below 10 are in blissful ignorance so I'd rather avoid that. Blissful ignorance is not true happiness

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Farnhamia
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 102391
Founded: Jun 20, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Farnhamia » Thu May 16, 2019 4:44 pm

Tetradimensional Overworld wrote:
Kowani wrote:Yes, that was part of the point I was making.

Smrt anti-vaxxeru sloboda narodu! For our children's and our grandchildren's future! DEATH TO THE ANTI-VAXXERS!

*** Warned for trolling. *** We don't call for the death of real people that way, not on this site, we don't. Also, knock it off with the Croatian invective.
Freedom ... or cake. ~ Ashmoria (RIP)
Make Earth Great Again: Stop Continental Drift!
And Jesus was a sailor when he walked upon the water ...
"Make yourself at home, Frank. Hit somebody." RIP Don Rickles
My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. ~ Carl Schurz
<Sigh> NSG...where even the atheists are Augustinians. ~ The Archregimancy
Now the foot is on the other hand ~ Kannap
RIP Dyakovo

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